Why I Finally Chose to Quit Pursuing Medicine

[Rustie]

I did not personally have a banking or finance-related job. I worked in IT (datacenter and network management), and I did it without a college degree.

Interesting! When did you decide to go back to school and begin your undergrad?

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[el_duderino]

Interesting! When did you decide to go back to school and begin your undergrad?

You have a seriously major problem with assumptions. I did not "go back and begin my undergrad." I did 2.5 years of undergrad before dropping out and getting the IT job.

I'm not interested in detailing my life history for you, so that line of questioning is at an end.

 

[Rustie]

You have a seriously major problem with assumptions. I did not "go back and begin my undergrad." I did 2.5 years of undergrad before dropping out and getting the IT job.

I'm not interested in detailing my life history for you, so that line of questioning is at an end.

I'm not sure why you're upset. I was honestly just trying to gain perspective on the subject, which is something you were previously judging me for not having.

Secondly, you're forging assumptions when you say that you worked in the field of banking prior to attending medical school. You did not work in the field of banking, you worked in the IT field.

Just because an IT worker works in a hospital setting, it does not mean that the IT worker has a good perspective on medicine... and that's not to mention the fact that your, in your situation, you worked a government job, and not even an IT-banking job.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I'm glad you found a decision that is right for you. However, there are a lot of inaccurate statements in your post. Physicians actually divorce at a lower rate than most (historically at 11%). Also, medicine isn't going to make financial sense for many, but that doesn't make it not work pursuing.

I've made over 100k for a while now (I'm 31 currently), but I'm not passionate about what I do. I've worked with physicians for 10 yrs. I know their job is what I want and I know the math will never work out (my lost income for the 4 years of attending med school is about 500k pre-tax, not even mentioning the actual cost of med school, but there is something to be said for having the job you want).

Not relevant at all, but I could never be an actuary. So darn boring! Though, the numbers are true of almost any profession. A NYC garbage man starting salary is about $50k (no college needed) and in 5-10 years you easily make $100k+. Salaries get to $144k pretty quickly (this figure includes benefits cost): http://www.wnd.com/2011/01/253645/.

 

[calmdog]

I'm glad you made up your mind. I've been debating the same thing myself a lot lately and found that this website definitely helped put things into perspective for me:

http://jakeseliger.com/2012/10/20/w...ctor-the-underrated-perils-of-medical-school/

 

[el_duderino]

I'm not sure why you're upset.

There you go again!

Anyway, you still missed the point. I never said I had any incredible perspective on any industry I said that I know many people with those types of degrees and see the types of work they do and the kind of money they make.

I am using my personal experience with the sort of degree you want to encourage you to get a more realistic view of it by talking to and observing people who have those degrees.

There's no magic undergrad degree that equals 40 hour work weeks and six figures.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

I chuckle as I begin writing this post. I laugh not because medicine is a bad field in and of itself, but rather because of how medicine is changing, and also because of how medicine isn't changing. If you feel the need to comment on this post to reassure yourself that the decision to pursue medicine is the "right" endeavor for you, feel free. I understand: I did the same thing for many years. In fact, I'm not even writing this to dissuade aspiring doctors. I'm writing this just to get my voice out there.

Ever since I was a young child, I wanted to become a doctor. The field itself was very intriguing to me, and the prestige and money that "seemed" to accompany medicine acted as a snare as well. All throughout high school, medicine seemed like the only option for me. I did well in school and on standardized tests, and many of my superiors saw me as a practical and mature thinker.

Fast forward to this past August. I was frequenting SDN, and I was preparing for my first year of college. It was an exciting time, filled with the anticipation for opportunity. Given the amount of work that lied ahead for my pre-med self, I wanted to make sure that I knew everything that I needed to know by listening to members of this site, as well as doctors, residents, and members of medical academia on other sites.

This "research" of mine had an unexpected effect.

Countless members spoke of their rejections. Countless threads mentioned doctors who regretted pursuing a degree in medicine. Countless residents complained of their horrid hours and even worse social lives. On other websites, broader topics such as divorce rates and the effects of legislation (specifically Obamacare) were discussed. And of course, everything made medicine appear less and less appealing.

I wasn't going to quit though. Medicine was surely still the best option for me. I never dreamed of a future where the title of "doctor" didn't precede my last name.

A buddy of mine who was going into actuarial science started talking to me about his college plans. Not once did he try to persuade me against medicine, but what he said was incredibly influential.

He was going to a good school that wasn't very expensive. As an actuary, he would walk into a field that required nothing more than a bachelor's degree. I accompanied him when he met with his advisor before he year started (which I was surprised the advisor let me do), and that is when everything changed. The advisor, an 30-something-year-old, had been in the field of actuarial science for over ten years. He joined academia to get his summers off and longer breaks to spend with his children. But what did he say?

By the time many of that college's graduates turned 28, they were making nearly six figures.
After several years with a company, many of the graduates had a work-from-home day each week. Maybe even two.
The hours? 8-4:30 initially. Eventually the time spend at work would decrease to maybe 9-4:30 as the worker proved their capabilities.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the expected job growth for actuaries was 26%.

I was shocked. "How could a four-year degree offer such a fantastic salary, lifestyle, and job growth?" That is a question I asked myself, and continued to ask myself long after the meeting ended.

No, this is not my plug for actuarial science. This is my plug against medicine. (Although actuarial science is indeed a fantastic field.)

Lifestyle

I don't feel like explaining this. You all know what I'm talking about, you're knowledgable on this subject. The best explanation I can offer is through this link. If you pay attention to anything in this thread, please pay attention to this link.

Debt, Salary, and Legislation

All of you know that debt sucks, and doctors have a lot of it. I'm not going to re-explain what all of you (should) already know. Salary and legislation on the other: How many of you realize that reimbursement for doctors is on the decline? How many of you know that in states like Minnesota, access to specialized doctors is being limited to a certain number of visits per year? Simple economics says that if you have less clients, you will receive less money. Hospitals won't be able to afford the large salaries of specialized physicians when the services of the physicians aren't being paid for as they were before.

Couple that with the increasing cost of schooling and you get a profession where the graduates end up in a very regrettable field.

The Result of Your Life

At age 22, my friend will end his schooling with a grand total of <$25k in debt. He will start anywhere between $50k and $65k, and in just a few years be making nearly $100k. If I stayed on the medical path? I would potentially be in medical school, indirectly making myself an indentured servant to the big banks of America. If I wasn't so lucky? I would become one of the 57% who didn't make it into medical school, effectively wasting my undergrad years, slaving away at shadowing, volunteering, incredibly difficult courses, and whatever else that could make me a good applicant.

At age 28, my friend was modest and fiscally responsible, he could be debt free. If not, he would have very little left to pay. Oh, and the company he's working at? Yeah, he's taken actuarial exams that have increased his pay by nearly double. His work has been stressful at times -- just like any profession -- but he's a lot less stressed than me, who is now worked 60-80 hours per week in a residency.

At age 34, I'm finally a licensed independent doctor. I'm freeeee- oh wait. No I'm not. I'm not even a little. I have roughly $200,000 in debt, and I'm still working arduous hours. My (dingus) friend? He's worked his way up in the company, or maybe he's found a better position and another company. He's making half as much as me. Ha! But wait -- he's been debt free for years, and he's able to focus on other things, like his 401k, retirement, and his house.

You see, at age 25, my buddy would be going out to the bars and getting nice dinners with dates and friends and coworkers. He would be living up his 20's in a STEM profession (mathematics, specifically) that is netting him an above-average salary that's increasing every year.

Reset. I'm 18 years old and just starting college.

Do I want to wait until I'm in my 30's to begin my life? Do I want to wait fifteen years to join a field that may or may not be what I expected? Do I want to put myself into such unforgivable debt that it won't be until my 40's that I will be free, yet in a field that may be declining in reimbursement and still hard hours?

No. I do not. I do no want that at all.

Am I saying that you should get a job as an actuary? Hell no. If that's not what you want, then don't do it. It's just an example. What I am saying? Take it from the guy in that link: Medicine probably isn't going to end up being the ideal profession you expect it to be. There are a lot of better alternatives.

How thoughtful of you; how wise, intuitive, precocious, and prudent. Your foresight transcends my mortal brain!

I chuckle as I begin to tell you nothing in life is certain but death and taxes.

 

[Medix450]

I chuckle as I begin writing this post. I laugh not because medicine is a bad field in and of itself, but rather because of how medicine is changing, and also because of how medicine isn't changing. If you feel the need to comment on this post to reassure yourself that the decision to pursue medicine is the "right" endeavor for you, feel free. I understand: I did the same thing for many years. In fact, I'm not even writing this to dissuade aspiring doctors. I'm writing this just to get my voice out there.

Ever since I was a young child, I wanted to become a doctor. The field itself was very intriguing to me, and the prestige and money that "seemed" to accompany medicine acted as a snare as well. All throughout high school, medicine seemed like the only option for me. I did well in school and on standardized tests, and many of my superiors saw me as a practical and mature thinker.

Fast forward to this past August. I was frequenting SDN, and I was preparing for my first year of college. It was an exciting time, filled with the anticipation for opportunity. Given the amount of work that lied ahead for my pre-med self, I wanted to make sure that I knew everything that I needed to know by listening to members of this site, as well as doctors, residents, and members of medical academia on other sites.

This "research" of mine had an unexpected effect.

Countless members spoke of their rejections. Countless threads mentioned doctors who regretted pursuing a degree in medicine. Countless residents complained of their horrid hours and even worse social lives. On other websites, broader topics such as divorce rates and the effects of legislation (specifically Obamacare) were discussed. And of course, everything made medicine appear less and less appealing.

I wasn't going to quit though. Medicine was surely still the best option for me. I never dreamed of a future where the title of "doctor" didn't precede my last name.

A buddy of mine who was going into actuarial science started talking to me about his college plans. Not once did he try to persuade me against medicine, but what he said was incredibly influential.

He was going to a good school that wasn't very expensive. As an actuary, he would walk into a field that required nothing more than a bachelor's degree. I accompanied him when he met with his advisor before he year started (which I was surprised the advisor let me do), and that is when everything changed. The advisor, an 30-something-year-old, had been in the field of actuarial science for over ten years. He joined academia to get his summers off and longer breaks to spend with his children. But what did he say?

By the time many of that college's graduates turned 28, they were making nearly six figures.
After several years with a company, many of the graduates had a work-from-home day each week. Maybe even two.
The hours? 8-4:30 initially. Eventually the time spend at work would decrease to maybe 9-4:30 as the worker proved their capabilities.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the expected job growth for actuaries was 26%.

I was shocked. "How could a four-year degree offer such a fantastic salary, lifestyle, and job growth?" That is a question I asked myself, and continued to ask myself long after the meeting ended.

No, this is not my plug for actuarial science. This is my plug against medicine. (Although actuarial science is indeed a fantastic field.)

Lifestyle

I don't feel like explaining this. You all know what I'm talking about, you're knowledgable on this subject. The best explanation I can offer is through this link. If you pay attention to anything in this thread, please pay attention to this link.

Debt, Salary, and Legislation

All of you know that debt sucks, and doctors have a lot of it. I'm not going to re-explain what all of you (should) already know. Salary and legislation on the other: How many of you realize that reimbursement for doctors is on the decline? How many of you know that in states like Minnesota, access to specialized doctors is being limited to a certain number of visits per year? Simple economics says that if you have less clients, you will receive less money. Hospitals won't be able to afford the large salaries of specialized physicians when the services of the physicians aren't being paid for as they were before.

Couple that with the increasing cost of schooling and you get a profession where the graduates end up in a very regrettable field.

The Result of Your Life

At age 22, my friend will end his schooling with a grand total of <$25k in debt. He will start anywhere between $50k and $65k, and in just a few years be making nearly $100k. If I stayed on the medical path? I would potentially be in medical school, indirectly making myself an indentured servant to the big banks of America. If I wasn't so lucky? I would become one of the 57% who didn't make it into medical school, effectively wasting my undergrad years, slaving away at shadowing, volunteering, incredibly difficult courses, and whatever else that could make me a good applicant.

At age 28, my friend was modest and fiscally responsible, he could be debt free. If not, he would have very little left to pay. Oh, and the company he's working at? Yeah, he's taken actuarial exams that have increased his pay by nearly double. His work has been stressful at times -- just like any profession -- but he's a lot less stressed than me, who is now worked 60-80 hours per week in a residency.

At age 34, I'm finally a licensed independent doctor. I'm freeeee- oh wait. No I'm not. I'm not even a little. I have roughly $200,000 in debt, and I'm still working arduous hours. My (dingus) friend? He's worked his way up in the company, or maybe he's found a better position and another company. He's making half as much as me. Ha! But wait -- he's been debt free for years, and he's able to focus on other things, like his 401k, retirement, and his house.

You see, at age 25, my buddy would be going out to the bars and getting nice dinners with dates and friends and coworkers. He would be living up his 20's in a STEM profession (mathematics, specifically) that is netting him an above-average salary that's increasing every year.

Reset. I'm 18 years old and just starting college.

Do I want to wait until I'm in my 30's to begin my life? Do I want to wait fifteen years to join a field that may or may not be what I expected? Do I want to put myself into such unforgivable debt that it won't be until my 40's that I will be free, yet in a field that may be declining in reimbursement and still hard hours?

No. I do not. I do no want that at all.

Am I saying that you should get a job as an actuary? Hell no. If that's not what you want, then don't do it. It's just an example. What I am saying? Take it from the guy in that link: Medicine probably isn't going to end up being the ideal profession you expect it to be. There are a lot of better alternatives.

To become an actuary and make those big bucks you need to pass many many exams (i'm not sure but I think its 5 or so). These exams are not at all easy. Its not like saying, hey I'll become an actuary and just write an exam. A good portion of people fail the first one (and passing grade is 70 or 80% if I'm not mistaken). These exams are brutal and almost as draining as the MCAT. And they also end up costing more money and take more time to prepare as you get further. I think you need to pass around half the exams before you get hired on as an actuary anywhere. Again I'm not an expert, but I'm just citing these facts from things my roommate, who wants to go into this, told me a year ago. So what's going to happen if you don't have the ability to pass these exams? They're very high level mathematics, which not everyone is capable of comprehending, let alone being good at. It's just like getting into medicine, not everyone is capable of it. To become a doctor you need to work hard and invest a lot of time. To become an actuary, while you may not be spending as much of your life married to the job (if and when you get a job), you'll still need to work your ass off. Yes the life you'll have could be great, but are you going to be interested in crunching numbers 40 hrs a week at a desk? Do you like to crunch numbers to begin with?

 

[RTC19]

Good for you! One of the worst things I see posted here on SDN is people who get into medical school or even graduate from medical school only to find out that they hate it, it wasn't what they expected, wish they had done something else, etc. You should be happy to have found out medicine isn't for you, especially as early as you have.

This!

Good luck with everything, OP.

 

[Mad Jack]

I chuckle as I begin writing this post. I laugh not because medicine is a bad field in and of itself, but rather because of how medicine is changing, and also because of how medicine isn't changing. If you feel the need to comment on this post to reassure yourself that the decision to pursue medicine is the "right" endeavor for you, feel free. I understand: I did the same thing for many years. In fact, I'm not even writing this to dissuade aspiring doctors. I'm writing this just to get my voice out there.

Ever since I was a young child, I wanted to become a doctor. The field itself was very intriguing to me, and the prestige and money that "seemed" to accompany medicine acted as a snare as well. All throughout high school, medicine seemed like the only option for me. I did well in school and on standardized tests, and many of my superiors saw me as a practical and mature thinker.

Fast forward to this past August. I was frequenting SDN, and I was preparing for my first year of college. It was an exciting time, filled with the anticipation for opportunity. Given the amount of work that lied ahead for my pre-med self, I wanted to make sure that I knew everything that I needed to know by listening to members of this site, as well as doctors, residents, and members of medical academia on other sites.

This "research" of mine had an unexpected effect.

Countless members spoke of their rejections. Countless threads mentioned doctors who regretted pursuing a degree in medicine. Countless residents complained of their horrid hours and even worse social lives. On other websites, broader topics such as divorce rates and the effects of legislation (specifically Obamacare) were discussed. And of course, everything made medicine appear less and less appealing.

I wasn't going to quit though. Medicine was surely still the best option for me. I never dreamed of a future where the title of "doctor" didn't precede my last name.

A buddy of mine who was going into actuarial science started talking to me about his college plans. Not once did he try to persuade me against medicine, but what he said was incredibly influential.

He was going to a good school that wasn't very expensive. As an actuary, he would walk into a field that required nothing more than a bachelor's degree. I accompanied him when he met with his advisor before he year started (which I was surprised the advisor let me do), and that is when everything changed. The advisor, an 30-something-year-old, had been in the field of actuarial science for over ten years. He joined academia to get his summers off and longer breaks to spend with his children. But what did he say?

By the time many of that college's graduates turned 28, they were making nearly six figures.
After several years with a company, many of the graduates had a work-from-home day each week. Maybe even two.
The hours? 8-4:30 initially. Eventually the time spend at work would decrease to maybe 9-4:30 as the worker proved their capabilities.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the expected job growth for actuaries was 26%.

I was shocked. "How could a four-year degree offer such a fantastic salary, lifestyle, and job growth?" That is a question I asked myself, and continued to ask myself long after the meeting ended.

No, this is not my plug for actuarial science. This is my plug against medicine. (Although actuarial science is indeed a fantastic field.)

Lifestyle

I don't feel like explaining this. You all know what I'm talking about, you're knowledgable on this subject. The best explanation I can offer is through this link. If you pay attention to anything in this thread, please pay attention to this link.

Debt, Salary, and Legislation

All of you know that debt sucks, and doctors have a lot of it. I'm not going to re-explain what all of you (should) already know. Salary and legislation on the other: How many of you realize that reimbursement for doctors is on the decline? How many of you know that in states like Minnesota, access to specialized doctors is being limited to a certain number of visits per year? Simple economics says that if you have less clients, you will receive less money. Hospitals won't be able to afford the large salaries of specialized physicians when the services of the physicians aren't being paid for as they were before.

Couple that with the increasing cost of schooling and you get a profession where the graduates end up in a very regrettable field.

The Result of Your Life

At age 22, my friend will end his schooling with a grand total of <$25k in debt. He will start anywhere between $50k and $65k, and in just a few years be making nearly $100k. If I stayed on the medical path? I would potentially be in medical school, indirectly making myself an indentured servant to the big banks of America. If I wasn't so lucky? I would become one of the 57% who didn't make it into medical school, effectively wasting my undergrad years, slaving away at shadowing, volunteering, incredibly difficult courses, and whatever else that could make me a good applicant.

At age 28, my friend was modest and fiscally responsible, he could be debt free. If not, he would have very little left to pay. Oh, and the company he's working at? Yeah, he's taken actuarial exams that have increased his pay by nearly double. His work has been stressful at times -- just like any profession -- but he's a lot less stressed than me, who is now worked 60-80 hours per week in a residency.

At age 34, I'm finally a licensed independent doctor. I'm freeeee- oh wait. No I'm not. I'm not even a little. I have roughly $200,000 in debt, and I'm still working arduous hours. My (dingus) friend? He's worked his way up in the company, or maybe he's found a better position and another company. He's making half as much as me. Ha! But wait -- he's been debt free for years, and he's able to focus on other things, like his 401k, retirement, and his house.

You see, at age 25, my buddy would be going out to the bars and getting nice dinners with dates and friends and coworkers. He would be living up his 20's in a STEM profession (mathematics, specifically) that is netting him an above-average salary that's increasing every year.

Reset. I'm 18 years old and just starting college.

Do I want to wait until I'm in my 30's to begin my life? Do I want to wait fifteen years to join a field that may or may not be what I expected? Do I want to put myself into such unforgivable debt that it won't be until my 40's that I will be free, yet in a field that may be declining in reimbursement and still hard hours?

No. I do not. I do no want that at all.

Am I saying that you should get a job as an actuary? Hell no. If that's not what you want, then don't do it. It's just an example. What I am saying? Take it from the guy in that link: Medicine probably isn't going to end up being the ideal profession you expect it to be. There are a lot of better alternatives.

I think OP is the gunneriest of gunners. Trying to dissuade the competition with hit pieces on how much medicine sucks

Good for you op, you don't have the drive or the dedication for medicine, and you weren't looking to go into it for the right reasons. Best you get away now, and leave the doctoring to those of us who actually enjoy medicine.

 

[Rustie]

There you go again!

Anyway, you still missed the point. I never said I had any incredible perspective on any industry I said that I know many people with those types of degrees and see the types of work they do and the kind of money they make.

I am using my personal experience with the sort of degree you want to encourage you to get a more realistic view of it by talking to and observing people who have those degrees.

There's no magic undergrad degree that equals 40 hour work weeks and six figures.

literally engineering

im done here

 

[Rustie]

To become an actuary and make those big bucks you need to pass many many exams (i'm not sure but I think its 5 or so). These exams are not at all easy. Its not like saying, hey I'll become an actuary and just write an exam. A good portion of people fail the first one (and passing grade is 70 or 80% if I'm not mistaken). These exams are brutal and almost as draining as the MCAT. And they also end up costing more money and take more time to prepare as you get further. I think you need to pass around half the exams before you get hired on as an actuary anywhere. Again I'm not an expert, but I'm just citing these facts from things my roommate, who wants to go into this, told me a year ago. So what's going to happen if you don't have the ability to pass these exams? They're very high level mathematics, which not everyone is capable of comprehending, let alone being good at. It's just like getting into medicine, not everyone is capable of it. To become a doctor you need to work hard and invest a lot of time. To become an actuary, while you may not be spending as much of your life married to the job (if and when you get a job), you'll still need to work your ass off. Yes the life you'll have could be great, but are you going to be interested in crunching numbers 40 hrs a week at a desk? Do you like to crunch numbers to begin with?

Correct. Typically about six exams. And yes, they are very difficult. You have to be an analytical person to do well as an actuary. The exams are fairly expensive, but are often refunded by your employer.

 

[Medix450]

assuming of course you pass enough of them to be employed. Im just saying, you could end up trying to pass exams for 6 years after your undergrad and not get employed where you want. You also just started your undergrad, so wait until you take more advanced math and statistics before tooting your horn about how great actuary is. There is a reason the field is lucrative, it's very hard to get into it.

 

[Rustie]

assuming of course you pass enough of them to be employed. Im just saying, you could end up trying to pass exams for 6 years after your undergrad and not get employed where you want. You also just started your undergrad, so wait until you take more advanced math and statistics before tooting your horn about how great actuary is. There is a reason the field is lucrative, it's very hard to get into it.

That's simply not true.

Employers like graduates who have one exam passed, and really like those who have two exams passed. As an early actuary, you have time to study for each exam, and you are reimbursed for the exams you take.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

I think OP is the gunneriest of gunners. Trying to dissuade the competition with hit pieces on how much medicine sucks

Good for you op, you don't have the drive or the dedication for medicine, and you weren't looking to go into it for the right reasons. Best you get away now, and leave the doctoring to those of us who actually enjoy medicine.

+1

 

[Medix450]

No sir, my buddy says you should have two done before seriously considering applying for a job. Finishing the first exam merely shows you can do statistics and like math.

 

[deleted390966]

literally engineering
im done here

I'm from a family of engineers. Nowadays, there are only 2-3 fields of Engineering that can give you $80-90k salary out of undergrad.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

I apologize if I came off condescending and all-knowing, because I really didn't mean to. I just wanted to offer a unique perspective on the information I've gathered in the past four or so years, and especially the information I've gathered as of late.

I guess that's actually the point of my thread. Life isn't all about money, and a lot of people who go into medicine do so simply for the money and prestige, and just a little bit because they like the field.

You did not mean to come of condescending, yet you started the post with "I chuckle as I begin to write this," as if you have some kind of hidden knowledge others don't.

 

[notbobtrustme]

yea, I would rather suck dick than play around with numbers all day just to dick people out of their insurance papers.

You know why I chose medicine? Because when your dad faceplants in the driveway after shoveling snow, I can thread a catherer up into his heart, pop open his artery and make sure he lives long enough to see your grandkids graduate college.

If that doesn't get you excited, then go crunch numbers for AllState on how women under 55 with a husband, 2 kids and 2 cars but with a 12 year old dog is a bad bet for house insurance because they won't pay out.

 

[Rustie]

No sir, my buddy says you should have two done before seriously considering applying for a job. Finishing the first exam merely shows you can do statistics and like math.

Alright. I guess it now comes down to your anecdotes and those of my advisor and friend's advisor.

I'm done with this thread now. It turned out exactly how I expected it to, and that's okay. In all, I'm satisfied with giving my piece, and I wish you all the best of luck with your careers.

 

[el_duderino]

I'm done with this thread now. It turned out exactly how I expected it to, and that's okay.

Thank you for blessing us with your brief presence and wisdom, and I am happy we were able to respond in the way you not only wished but predicted. Best of luck with your undergraduate career and impending six-figure salary at a 9-5 job.

 

[WillburCobb]

I'm done with this thread now. It turned out exactly how I expected it to, and that's okay

And what did you accomplish?

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

You're a freshman, dude. I thought I knew what I wanted in life back then, too.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Alright. I guess it now comes down to your anecdotes and those of my advisor and friend's advisor.

I'm done with this thread now. It turned out exactly how I expected it to, and that's okay. In all, I'm satisfied with giving my piece, and I wish you all the best of luck with your careers.

Yeah when you're a pr**k its pretty obvious what kinds of responses you will elicit.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Capiche?

 

[Chipster.]

I chuckle as I begin writing this post. I laugh not because medicine is a bad field in and of itself, but rather because of how medicine is changing, and also because of how medicine isn't changing. If you feel the need to comment on this post to reassure yourself that the decision to pursue medicine is the "right" endeavor for you, feel free. I understand: I did the same thing for many years. In fact, I'm not even writing this to dissuade aspiring doctors. I'm writing this just to get my voice out there.

Ever since I was a young child, I wanted to become a doctor. The field itself was very intriguing to me, and the prestige and money that "seemed" to accompany medicine acted as a snare as well. All throughout high school, medicine seemed like the only option for me. I did well in school and on standardized tests, and many of my superiors saw me as a practical and mature thinker.

Fast forward to this past August. I was frequenting SDN, and I was preparing for my first year of college. It was an exciting time, filled with the anticipation for opportunity. Given the amount of work that lied ahead for my pre-med self, I wanted to make sure that I knew everything that I needed to know by listening to members of this site, as well as doctors, residents, and members of medical academia on other sites.

This "research" of mine had an unexpected effect.

Countless members spoke of their rejections. Countless threads mentioned doctors who regretted pursuing a degree in medicine. Countless residents complained of their horrid hours and even worse social lives. On other websites, broader topics such as divorce rates and the effects of legislation (specifically Obamacare) were discussed. And of course, everything made medicine appear less and less appealing.

I wasn't going to quit though. Medicine was surely still the best option for me. I never dreamed of a future where the title of "doctor" didn't precede my last name.

A buddy of mine who was going into actuarial science started talking to me about his college plans. Not once did he try to persuade me against medicine, but what he said was incredibly influential.

He was going to a good school that wasn't very expensive. As an actuary, he would walk into a field that required nothing more than a bachelor's degree. I accompanied him when he met with his advisor before he year started (which I was surprised the advisor let me do), and that is when everything changed. The advisor, an 30-something-year-old, had been in the field of actuarial science for over ten years. He joined academia to get his summers off and longer breaks to spend with his children. But what did he say?

By the time many of that college's graduates turned 28, they were making nearly six figures.
After several years with a company, many of the graduates had a work-from-home day each week. Maybe even two.
The hours? 8-4:30 initially. Eventually the time spend at work would decrease to maybe 9-4:30 as the worker proved their capabilities.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the expected job growth for actuaries was 26%.

I was shocked. "How could a four-year degree offer such a fantastic salary, lifestyle, and job growth?" That is a question I asked myself, and continued to ask myself long after the meeting ended.

No, this is not my plug for actuarial science. This is my plug against medicine. (Although actuarial science is indeed a fantastic field.)

Lifestyle

I don't feel like explaining this. You all know what I'm talking about, you're knowledgable on this subject. The best explanation I can offer is through this link. If you pay attention to anything in this thread, please pay attention to this link.

Debt, Salary, and Legislation

All of you know that debt sucks, and doctors have a lot of it. I'm not going to re-explain what all of you (should) already know. Salary and legislation on the other: How many of you realize that reimbursement for doctors is on the decline? How many of you know that in states like Minnesota, access to specialized doctors is being limited to a certain number of visits per year? Simple economics says that if you have less clients, you will receive less money. Hospitals won't be able to afford the large salaries of specialized physicians when the services of the physicians aren't being paid for as they were before.

Couple that with the increasing cost of schooling and you get a profession where the graduates end up in a very regrettable field.

The Result of Your Life

At age 22, my friend will end his schooling with a grand total of <$25k in debt. He will start anywhere between $50k and $65k, and in just a few years be making nearly $100k. If I stayed on the medical path? I would potentially be in medical school, indirectly making myself an indentured servant to the big banks of America. If I wasn't so lucky? I would become one of the 57% who didn't make it into medical school, effectively wasting my undergrad years, slaving away at shadowing, volunteering, incredibly difficult courses, and whatever else that could make me a good applicant.

At age 28, my friend was modest and fiscally responsible, he could be debt free. If not, he would have very little left to pay. Oh, and the company he's working at? Yeah, he's taken actuarial exams that have increased his pay by nearly double. His work has been stressful at times -- just like any profession -- but he's a lot less stressed than me, who is now worked 60-80 hours per week in a residency.

At age 34, I'm finally a licensed independent doctor. I'm freeeee- oh wait. No I'm not. I'm not even a little. I have roughly $200,000 in debt, and I'm still working arduous hours. My (dingus) friend? He's worked his way up in the company, or maybe he's found a better position and another company. He's making half as much as me. Ha! But wait -- he's been debt free for years, and he's able to focus on other things, like his 401k, retirement, and his house.

You see, at age 25, my buddy would be going out to the bars and getting nice dinners with dates and friends and coworkers. He would be living up his 20's in a STEM profession (mathematics, specifically) that is netting him an above-average salary that's increasing every year.

Reset. I'm 18 years old and just starting college.

Do I want to wait until I'm in my 30's to begin my life? Do I want to wait fifteen years to join a field that may or may not be what I expected? Do I want to put myself into such unforgivable debt that it won't be until my 40's that I will be free, yet in a field that may be declining in reimbursement and still hard hours?

No. I do not. I do no want that at all.

Am I saying that you should get a job as an actuary? Hell no. If that's not what you want, then don't do it. It's just an example. What I am saying? Take it from the guy in that link: Medicine probably isn't going to end up being the ideal profession you expect it to be. There are a lot of better alternatives.

This is quite possibly the biggest piece of self righteous bullsh*t I have ever read on SDN. You are 18 years old. You have no actual perspective on life, yet you're trying to wax poetic while lecturing a group of people that are older, more experienced, and more accomplished than yourself. You and I both know this post was nothing more than a self serving endeavor. But as long as you're fine with "giving up" on the path you never even started, I guess we'll be fine too.

Enjoy your cushy life with short hours and high pay. We'll be the ones who save you 50 years down the road once your anger with a boring career gives you a heart attack.

Edit: Oh, I get it now. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/im-struggling-to-pursue-medical-school.1094927/

 

[ciruji]

What the heck is wrong with people here? Is sad to see that the more liked and disrespectful comments are from the SDN superstars.

 

[WillburCobb]

Edit: Oh, I get it now. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/im-struggling-to-pursue-medical-school.1094927/

 

[Holmwood]

I chuckle as I begin writing this post. I laugh not because medicine is a bad field in and of itself, but rather because of how medicine is changing, and also because of how medicine isn't changing. If you feel the need to comment on this post to reassure yourself that the decision to pursue medicine is the "right" endeavor for you, feel free. I understand: I did the same thing for many years. In fact, I'm not even writing this to dissuade aspiring doctors. I'm writing this just to get my voice out there.

Ever since I was a young child, I wanted to become a doctor. The field itself was very intriguing to me, and the prestige and money that "seemed" to accompany medicine acted as a snare as well. All throughout high school, medicine seemed like the only option for me. I did well in school and on standardized tests, and many of my superiors saw me as a practical and mature thinker.

Fast forward to this past August. I was frequenting SDN, and I was preparing for my first year of college. It was an exciting time, filled with the anticipation for opportunity. Given the amount of work that lied ahead for my pre-med self, I wanted to make sure that I knew everything that I needed to know by listening to members of this site, as well as doctors, residents, and members of medical academia on other sites.

This "research" of mine had an unexpected effect.

Countless members spoke of their rejections. Countless threads mentioned doctors who regretted pursuing a degree in medicine. Countless residents complained of their horrid hours and even worse social lives. On other websites, broader topics such as divorce rates and the effects of legislation (specifically Obamacare) were discussed. And of course, everything made medicine appear less and less appealing.

I wasn't going to quit though. Medicine was surely still the best option for me. I never dreamed of a future where the title of "doctor" didn't precede my last name.

A buddy of mine who was going into actuarial science started talking to me about his college plans. Not once did he try to persuade me against medicine, but what he said was incredibly influential.

He was going to a good school that wasn't very expensive. As an actuary, he would walk into a field that required nothing more than a bachelor's degree. I accompanied him when he met with his advisor before he year started (which I was surprised the advisor let me do), and that is when everything changed. The advisor, an 30-something-year-old, had been in the field of actuarial science for over ten years. He joined academia to get his summers off and longer breaks to spend with his children. But what did he say?

By the time many of that college's graduates turned 28, they were making nearly six figures.
After several years with a company, many of the graduates had a work-from-home day each week. Maybe even two.
The hours? 8-4:30 initially. Eventually the time spend at work would decrease to maybe 9-4:30 as the worker proved their capabilities.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the expected job growth for actuaries was 26%.

I was shocked. "How could a four-year degree offer such a fantastic salary, lifestyle, and job growth?" That is a question I asked myself, and continued to ask myself long after the meeting ended.

No, this is not my plug for actuarial science. This is my plug against medicine. (Although actuarial science is indeed a fantastic field.)

Lifestyle

I don't feel like explaining this. You all know what I'm talking about, you're knowledgable on this subject. The best explanation I can offer is through this link. If you pay attention to anything in this thread, please pay attention to this link.

Debt, Salary, and Legislation

All of you know that debt sucks, and doctors have a lot of it. I'm not going to re-explain what all of you (should) already know. Salary and legislation on the other: How many of you realize that reimbursement for doctors is on the decline? How many of you know that in states like Minnesota, access to specialized doctors is being limited to a certain number of visits per year? Simple economics says that if you have less clients, you will receive less money. Hospitals won't be able to afford the large salaries of specialized physicians when the services of the physicians aren't being paid for as they were before.

Couple that with the increasing cost of schooling and you get a profession where the graduates end up in a very regrettable field.

The Result of Your Life

At age 22, my friend will end his schooling with a grand total of <$25k in debt. He will start anywhere between $50k and $65k, and in just a few years be making nearly $100k. If I stayed on the medical path? I would potentially be in medical school, indirectly making myself an indentured servant to the big banks of America. If I wasn't so lucky? I would become one of the 57% who didn't make it into medical school, effectively wasting my undergrad years, slaving away at shadowing, volunteering, incredibly difficult courses, and whatever else that could make me a good applicant.

At age 28, my friend was modest and fiscally responsible, he could be debt free. If not, he would have very little left to pay. Oh, and the company he's working at? Yeah, he's taken actuarial exams that have increased his pay by nearly double. His work has been stressful at times -- just like any profession -- but he's a lot less stressed than me, who is now worked 60-80 hours per week in a residency.

At age 34, I'm finally a licensed independent doctor. I'm freeeee- oh wait. No I'm not. I'm not even a little. I have roughly $200,000 in debt, and I'm still working arduous hours. My (dingus) friend? He's worked his way up in the company, or maybe he's found a better position and another company. He's making half as much as me. Ha! But wait -- he's been debt free for years, and he's able to focus on other things, like his 401k, retirement, and his house.

You see, at age 25, my buddy would be going out to the bars and getting nice dinners with dates and friends and coworkers. He would be living up his 20's in a STEM profession (mathematics, specifically) that is netting him an above-average salary that's increasing every year.

Reset. I'm 18 years old and just starting college.

Do I want to wait until I'm in my 30's to begin my life? Do I want to wait fifteen years to join a field that may or may not be what I expected? Do I want to put myself into such unforgivable debt that it won't be until my 40's that I will be free, yet in a field that may be declining in reimbursement and still hard hours?

No. I do not. I do no want that at all.

Am I saying that you should get a job as an actuary? Hell no. If that's not what you want, then don't do it. It's just an example. What I am saying? Take it from the guy in that link: Medicine probably isn't going to end up being the ideal profession you expect it to be. There are a lot of better alternatives.

Nothing wrong with having a cushy life, short hours, and high pay. You'll have more time to do what you're passionate about (if actuary loses steam after a while).

We can all agree that further down the road, we don't want to regret that we haven't done more with our one life. Some of us find significance in enjoying life as much as possible while others find significance in benefiting others. It's just preference.


And guess what, more and more people are waiting until their 30s to marry and have kids. Like your life is going to be any more affected if you started at 31 rather than 26. A difference of 5 years is marginal 20-30 years from now.. . .

 

[Uafl112]

I chuckle as I begin writing this post. I laugh not because medicine is a bad field in and of itself, but rather because of how medicine is changing, and also because of how medicine isn't changing. If you feel the need to comment on this post to reassure yourself that the decision to pursue medicine is the "right" endeavor for you, feel free. I understand: I did the same thing for many years. In fact, I'm not even writing this to dissuade aspiring doctors. I'm writing this just to get my voice out there.

Ever since I was a young child, I wanted to become a doctor. The field itself was very intriguing to me, and the prestige and money that "seemed" to accompany medicine acted as a snare as well. All throughout high school, medicine seemed like the only option for me. I did well in school and on standardized tests, and many of my superiors saw me as a practical and mature thinker.

Fast forward to this past August. I was frequenting SDN, and I was preparing for my first year of college. It was an exciting time, filled with the anticipation for opportunity. Given the amount of work that lied ahead for my pre-med self, I wanted to make sure that I knew everything that I needed to know by listening to members of this site, as well as doctors, residents, and members of medical academia on other sites.

This "research" of mine had an unexpected effect.

Countless members spoke of their rejections. Countless threads mentioned doctors who regretted pursuing a degree in medicine. Countless residents complained of their horrid hours and even worse social lives. On other websites, broader topics such as divorce rates and the effects of legislation (specifically Obamacare) were discussed. And of course, everything made medicine appear less and less appealing.

I wasn't going to quit though. Medicine was surely still the best option for me. I never dreamed of a future where the title of "doctor" didn't precede my last name.

A buddy of mine who was going into actuarial science started talking to me about his college plans. Not once did he try to persuade me against medicine, but what he said was incredibly influential.

He was going to a good school that wasn't very expensive. As an actuary, he would walk into a field that required nothing more than a bachelor's degree. I accompanied him when he met with his advisor before he year started (which I was surprised the advisor let me do), and that is when everything changed. The advisor, an 30-something-year-old, had been in the field of actuarial science for over ten years. He joined academia to get his summers off and longer breaks to spend with his children. But what did he say?

By the time many of that college's graduates turned 28, they were making nearly six figures.
After several years with a company, many of the graduates had a work-from-home day each week. Maybe even two.
The hours? 8-4:30 initially. Eventually the time spend at work would decrease to maybe 9-4:30 as the worker proved their capabilities.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the expected job growth for actuaries was 26%.

I was shocked. "How could a four-year degree offer such a fantastic salary, lifestyle, and job growth?" That is a question I asked myself, and continued to ask myself long after the meeting ended.

No, this is not my plug for actuarial science. This is my plug against medicine. (Although actuarial science is indeed a fantastic field.)

Lifestyle

I don't feel like explaining this. You all know what I'm talking about, you're knowledgable on this subject. The best explanation I can offer is through this link. If you pay attention to anything in this thread, please pay attention to this link.

Debt, Salary, and Legislation

All of you know that debt sucks, and doctors have a lot of it. I'm not going to re-explain what all of you (should) already know. Salary and legislation on the other: How many of you realize that reimbursement for doctors is on the decline? How many of you know that in states like Minnesota, access to specialized doctors is being limited to a certain number of visits per year? Simple economics says that if you have less clients, you will receive less money. Hospitals won't be able to afford the large salaries of specialized physicians when the services of the physicians aren't being paid for as they were before.

Couple that with the increasing cost of schooling and you get a profession where the graduates end up in a very regrettable field.

The Result of Your Life

At age 22, my friend will end his schooling with a grand total of <$25k in debt. He will start anywhere between $50k and $65k, and in just a few years be making nearly $100k. If I stayed on the medical path? I would potentially be in medical school, indirectly making myself an indentured servant to the big banks of America. If I wasn't so lucky? I would become one of the 57% who didn't make it into medical school, effectively wasting my undergrad years, slaving away at shadowing, volunteering, incredibly difficult courses, and whatever else that could make me a good applicant.

At age 28, my friend was modest and fiscally responsible, he could be debt free. If not, he would have very little left to pay. Oh, and the company he's working at? Yeah, he's taken actuarial exams that have increased his pay by nearly double. His work has been stressful at times -- just like any profession -- but he's a lot less stressed than me, who is now worked 60-80 hours per week in a residency.

At age 34, I'm finally a licensed independent doctor. I'm freeeee- oh wait. No I'm not. I'm not even a little. I have roughly $200,000 in debt, and I'm still working arduous hours. My (dingus) friend? He's worked his way up in the company, or maybe he's found a better position and another company. He's making half as much as me. Ha! But wait -- he's been debt free for years, and he's able to focus on other things, like his 401k, retirement, and his house.

You see, at age 25, my buddy would be going out to the bars and getting nice dinners with dates and friends and coworkers. He would be living up his 20's in a STEM profession (mathematics, specifically) that is netting him an above-average salary that's increasing every year.

Reset. I'm 18 years old and just starting college.

Do I want to wait until I'm in my 30's to begin my life? Do I want to wait fifteen years to join a field that may or may not be what I expected? Do I want to put myself into such unforgivable debt that it won't be until my 40's that I will be free, yet in a field that may be declining in reimbursement and still hard hours?

No. I do not. I do no want that at all.

Am I saying that you should get a job as an actuary? Hell no. If that's not what you want, then don't do it. It's just an example. What I am saying? Take it from the guy in that link: Medicine probably isn't going to end up being the ideal profession you expect it to be. There are a lot of better alternatives.

No one said medicine was an easy path. You know exactly what you're signing up for. Its good you found out you dont wanna go down this path before it was too late.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

This is quite possibly the biggest piece of self righteous bullsh*t I have ever read on SDN. You are 18 years old. You have no actual perspective on life, yet you're trying to wax poetic while lecturing a group of people that are older, more experienced, and more accomplished than yourself. You and I both know this post was nothing more than a self serving endeavor. But as long as you're fine with "giving up" on the path you never even started, I guess we'll be fine too.

Enjoy your cushy life with short hours and high pay. We'll be the ones who save you 50 years down the road once your anger with a boring career gives you a heart attack.

Edit: Oh, I get it now. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/im-struggling-to-pursue-medical-school.1094927/

More like "menial life with boring hours and low pay." Watch as OP fails all the math and business classes before even taking the actuarial exams, which he'll probably fail too. Watch as OP is a pathetic panicky college senior in 3 years who can't get a job (or has to settle with a sh**ty menial entry level job with sh** hours and low pay.

 

[mehc012]

I'm not knocking your decision, and honestly I think you made the right choice. However, I don't want you to think that $100k/year is a lot of money. It seems like a lot when you're young, because you're basically making zero now. When you have a house and a family though, it's not very much, unless your wife is making a similar amount. I personally made roughly $100k/year for the last couple of years. It's certainly not a surgeon's lifestyle, that's for sure.

I'm sorry, but $100k/yr is a lot of money. Maybe you can't own yachts, helicopters, and a summer home in Martha's Vineyard, but it's enough that you can live without a budget and the money you have to throw around for impulse buys is in the thousands, not the tens or hundreds. In short, it's enough for a life which would be considered pretty luxurious by 95% of people on the planet.

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

Why are people getting so mad at OP for an OPINION? Like he obviously doesn't want to/shouldn't go into medicine. Fine, cool choice bro. But some of you are posting really disrespectful and unnecessary things. For what purpose?? SDN is wild sometimes. You can respectfully disagree with someone's opinion without coming for their neck.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I'm sorry, but $100k/yr is a lot of money. Maybe you can't own yachts, helicopters, and a summer home in Martha's Vineyard, but it's enough that you can live without a budget and the money you have to throw around for impulse buys is in the thousands, not the tens or hundreds. In short, it's enough for a life which would be considered pretty luxurious by 95% of people on the planet.

Depends where u live and what youre expectations are.

 

[Gilakend]

And guess what, more and more people are waiting until their 30s to marry and have kids. Like your life is going to be any more affected if you started at 31 rather than 26. A difference of 5 years is marginal 20-30 years from now.. . .

I believe what most people who are against medicine argue is that those 5 years are some of the most formidable and arguably important in your life. For example some would argue that 40-45 and 45-50 are much more similar than the years you'll lose pursuing medicine. I have only ever wanted to be a doctor and this is actually the only thing I worry about, I've accepted the fact that I'll be in debt and work long hours, it's the experiences I'll miss out on while I'm doing those that worries me. This is post is purely for perspective purposes.

Then again I'm just a high school senior, what do I even know?

 

[mehc012]

Depends where u live and what youre expectations are.

I live in one of the highest cost-of-living cities in the US and we make less than $100k for a multi-person house and we've got at least the lifestyle I described.
As I said, 'money is not a concern and you can splurge thousands of bucks on impulse buys' is luxury compared to 95% of people.

 

[WillburCobb]

I'm sorry, but $100k/yr is a lot of money...it's enough that you can live without a budget and the money you have to throw around for impulse buys is in the thousands...

I'm from one of the lowest COL areas in the country and growing up my parents average combined income was ~$100K. What you're suggesting is very far from reality, unless you want to live paycheck to paycheck and have little to no savings.

 

[DesertPT]

@Rustie

Man you think the numbers for medicine don't add up, you would crap an absolute brick if you saw the amount of schooling and debt required to become a PT and make $70k/yr.

 

[DesertPT]

Because you can do so much with just a degree in biology, zoology, math, physics, microbiology, etc.

You're right about all the bio degrees, but math and physics are pretty viable bachelor's (you're not going to be literally working as a mathematician or a physicist with just a bachelor's, but they are some of the more employable STEM bachelor's degrees out there).

But thank you for pointing out the common misconception that STEM in college = $$$ and job prospects. Almost everything requires some form of graduate education to really make a decent salary.

 

[mehc012]

I'm from one of the lowest COL areas in the country and growing up my parents average combined income was ~$100K. What you're suggesting is very far from reality, unless you want to live paycheck to paycheck and have little to no savings.

Maybe our 'living without a budget' is very different from yours, given that our household income while I was growing up ranged from <$20k to where we are now, including a large number of steps in between. Perhaps we default to less spending without monitoring it? I dunno.
However, we don't live paycheck to paycheck, and we do have savings, though perhaps less than we should (we have only reached this income bracket in the past 5yrs or so, so there has not been much time for it to build up).

Regardless, $100k/yr is a higher income level than 95% of people, as I said. Whether you would describe it differently or not, those making that much are still very well off.

 

[optimistic3]

I'm glad you made up your mind. I've been debating the same thing myself a lot lately and found that this website definitely helped put things into perspective for me:

http://jakeseliger.com/2012/10/20/why-you-should-become-a-nurse-or-physicians-assistant-instead-of-a-doctor-the-underrated-perils-of-medical-school/

Thank you for posting that article. It was a great read and things like this are definitely helping me in my debate as well.

 

[InsertMemberNameHere]

Medicine is not for everyone. It's good to figure that out sooner than later. I wish you luck in whatever path you decide to pursue!

 

[Lucca]

Medicine isn't for everyone. The reasons you listed are solid reasons not to go into medicine if you cannot find some external drive to pursue it in spite of those negative stessors. It does seem to me that you arrived at this decision without much shadowing or clinical exposure but that's fine, a preoccupation with lifestyle and a distaste for competition are pretty big red flags in my book that you would not be very happy in medicine. Of course, this is your decision and I'm sure it was a difficult one to make.

To everyone else: I have no idea what you people are so defensive about. Are some of his posts naive? Sure, but who cares. It's not like when you were a freshman in college you just totally avoided making any decisions whatsoever because you were "too naive". Hop off of the high horses. The truth is that most of chose medicine when we were 18 and some of us were lucky that we actually ended up being passionate about it. Some of us won't find out that we're wrong for a long time. Get over yourselves and stop acting like you have a monopoly on mature decision making because you hit the ripe old age of 22, at least show the OP some basic respect. "His job won't be as important as mine.." Blah blah blah. Is that what you really think about the other people in your communities? That what they do isn't as important? Here's a newsflash: Bankers are not going to repair arterial walls or bring a septic man back from the brink but as long as you and me want to buy things we can't immediately afford with our credit cards then Bankers are the only thing that keeps this whole fiat system moving around and pumping and we need them. If they act like their jobs dont really matter and start pursuing the money just for the sake of it without a thoughtto the repercussions we get 2008, or have we forgotten that?


Insurance is boring and at-times predatory? Sure, but so is all of business. It doesn't change the fact that having a trustworthy insurance system helps people pay for things and helps firms pay for people. You might not like your insurance overlords in healthcare far less than your housing and car insurance people - especially as medical professionals - but until human beings become the paragons of fiscal responsibility we need these limits to exist.

Don't like the way these limits serve businesses more often than they serve people? Well that's too bad because politicians, academics and civil service workers are just a bunch of other people whose jons are not as important as ours and there's no way they will ever listen to us, they are just too dumb and it wouldn't matter if they did because their jobs dont matter.


Give me a ****ing break people. This is a civic society and in a civic society that means everyone counts. You shouldn't want a cookie just because your job involves saving lives. We all do our part, and some of our parts sound a lot more boring on paper than others and that's fine but we all need to deal with each other. When a doctor rolls into the hospital as a patient does everyone jump up and say we have to try "extra hard" to save his life because he is just so damn important versus the mail man or the car salesman? No. We treat everyone the same because we aren't petty children so stop actong like that equality stops at the bedside and act like people with some integrity.

 

[Rustie]

More like "menial life with boring hours and low pay." Watch as OP fails all the math and business classes before even taking the actuarial exams, which he'll probably fail too. Watch as OP is a pathetic panicky college senior in 3 years who can't get a job (or has to settle with a sh**ty menial entry level job with sh** hours and low pay.

Ah, I really got you didn't I?

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Ah, I really got you didn't I?

Not really. Trolls are pathetic regardless. I was just agreeing with all the people who *actually* have the life experience and knowledge to know how this sh** works. Also, you posted a ridiculously naive blanket statement and assumed you knew better. You were *asking* for it when people shat on you.

 

[Sportsdude89]

Well said Lucca.

@mehc, not always the case. A med student who graduates with outstanding loans will likely take 10 years to pay them off. Not to mention money that must be set aside for 401k, mortgages, malpractice unless the hospital covers you, and taxes. The latter are significant factors that leave you with just a fraction of what your salary is. Life is expensive. I often wonder how others can make it at times..

 

[Rustie]

Not really. Trolls are pathetic regardless. I was just agreeing with all the people who *actually* have the life experience and knowledge to know how this sh** works. Also, you posted a ridiculously naive blanket statement and assumed you knew better. You were *asking* for it when people shat on you.

I really did not. I specifically stated the medicine is not a bad feel. There is a reason why I wanted to become a doctor for such a long period of time.

You're pre-med. Unless you're a non-trad student, you are -- at most -- four years older than me. Hop off the "life experience" high horse. Neither one of us will have experience the life of a doctor until one of us becomes one, and at that point, it is too late.

The issues I addressed in my post couldn't be answered through shadowing and volunteering. They could only be answered through experienced doctors. And, from what I've gathered, that means that medicine is not the right field for the average person. With how medicine is, and what it is becoming, unless you are only trying to help other people, it is a bad decision to become a doctor. It is not a career for a good lifestyle and fantastic salary.

 

[Flashfan]

I looked into the career as a freshman, and I would rather have a root canal daily, but I applaud you for figuring out what you want to do. That is what college should be about. You are a great example of why rushing teenagers into medical education is a bad idea. If you had gone straight from high school to medical school you may be unhappy even now. Enjoy your college years.

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

Not really. Trolls are pathetic regardless. I was just agreeing with all the people who *actually* have the life experience and knowledge to know how this sh** works. Also, you posted a ridiculously naive blanket statement and assumed you knew better. You were *asking* for it when people shat on you.

He's a troll because he offered an opinion that was different from yours? Oh.

 

[cs24]

What the heck is wrong with people here? Is sad to see that the more liked and disrespectful comments are from the SDN superstars.

When an 18 year old kid comes on to SDN to write a long, condescending post as if he is so much smarter than everyone for seeing the light and not choosing to pursue medicine, on a forum frequented not only by premeds, but by medical students, residents, and attendings, he is going to get some disrespectful comments, and the more humorous ones are going to get upvoted. You reap what you sow.