Why I Finally Chose to Quit Pursuing Medicine

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Definitely not surprised by the some of the upvotes. The more disrespectful comments to @Rustie are actual coming from other premeds.
His post did make me eye roll so hard I think I need surgery. For several reasons. He's just all around not the kind of person that should be a doctor, good for him for realizing it.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
His post did make me eye roll so hard I think I need surgery. For several reasons. He's just all around not the kind of person that should be a doctor, good for him for realizing it.
What is your avatar?
It has been slowly growing on me.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
His post did make me eye roll so hard I think I need surgery. For several reasons. He's just all around not the kind of person that should be a doctor, good for him for realizing it.
I don't know what kind of person he is based on 1 post. I'm with the group that applauds him for realizing this quite early on and with enough introspection to compare what he wants in medicine and what medicine can offer him as it is practiced now and how it will be practiced with Obamacare taking full effect. There are people who complete a fully undergraduate degree and hop into medicine fully convinced or aren't sure, and by the time med school spits them out, they realize how wrong they were. I'll take him over the bunch of premeds screaming down med students/residents throats about how unfair the 80 hr work week is (and not bc it's too low, but that the hours in all specialities should be even lower than that).

Realize the ones here who are personally offended, screaming down his throat, and putting him down are premeds themselves (many of them the more insufferable ones on SDN and getting tons of "me too!" likes).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9 users
Have you ever heard of HOA? where we live if your house is not painted a certain color, your roof is not clean, and other minutiae you get notified pretty quickly and it has to get done or you get fined.

those sound like crappy neighborhoods anyways. LOCATION IS KEY.
 
I just peaked around the corner from Pre-Osteo and saw the smoldering remains of Pre-Allo....yikes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I just peaked around the corner from Pre-Osteo and saw the smoldering remains of Pre-Allo....yikes.
5304566+_9bf257de5fa4ed409d2f60b1fa3e8b04.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Breakdown of a physician ik who makes 300 k+ with no mortgage/loans and family of 4:
90k taxes
10k hoa
17k property taxes
5k medical malpractice
maxed out 401k

this does not include health and car insurance, emergencies, credit card expenditures, vacations, food, etc.

know what you are getting yourself into.
 
It's just a music pirate wallpaper, modified with a couple filters.

Which is ironic because I actually pay for all of my music nowadays :laugh:
There was a video game on Playstation 1 called Tale Concerto; the characters look similar to your avatar. Reminds me of being a kid again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I don't know what kind of person he is based on 1 post. I'm with the group that applauds him for realizing this quite early on and with enough introspection to compare what he wants in medicine and what medicine can offer him as it is practiced now and how it will be practiced with Obamacare taking full effect. There are people who complete a fully undergraduate degree and hop into medicine fully convinced or aren't sure, and by the time med school spits them out, they realize how wrong they were. I'll take him over the bunch of premeds screaming down med students/residents throats about how unfair the 80 hr work week is (and not bc it's too low, but that the hours in all specialities should be even lower than that).

Realize the ones here who are personally offended, screaming down his throat, and putting him down are premeds themselves (many of them the more insufferable ones on SDN and getting tons of "me too!" likes).
He just came off as wanting to get into medicine for the wrong reasons to me. Yeah, a lot of the premeds hating on him were overly aggressive. But I think he is making a solid decision because his goals aren't the right ones for becoming a physician anyway.

Also, Obamacare is going to likely be nuked, and soon, thanks to the Republican takeover.
 
Eh. It's mediocre. It's not the only valid reason, and it's not even a very good one. Nurses and home health aides "take care of sick people."
It is not the only valid reason, but it will be the reason that sustains you the most on the pathway: "Prestige, money, job security, making mom happy, proving something, can’t think of anything else to do, better than being a lawyer, etc." that he listed (whoever he is as he now erased the comment for some reason), won't.

There is a reason being a physician is a calling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Breakdown of a physician ik who makes 300 k+ with no mortgage/loans and family of 4:
90k taxes
10k hoa
17k property taxes
5k medical malpractice
maxed out 401k

this does not include health and car insurance, emergencies, credit card expenditures, vacations, food, etc.

know what you are getting yourself into.
...? So? I would be happy with 150-200k for expenses after tax, 401(k), etc...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
He just came off as wanting to get into medicine for the wrong reasons to me. Yeah, a lot of the premeds hating on him were overly aggressive. But I think he is making a solid decision because his goals aren't the right ones for becoming a physician anyway.

Also, Obamacare is going to likely be nuked, and soon, thanks to the Republican takeover.
And you think other premeds who don't voice what he's saying are any better?

Nearly every MS-4 who stands on their soapbox about how physicians should work for peanuts and sacrifice their lives for medicine and should hold Mother Theresa-like ideals, by the time MS-4 comes around are the first to go for specialties with higher paychecks, better lifestyle, or work for academia where they definitely work less hours than they would in private practice (esp. if they have residents under them). Mimelim gave the statistic that in his med school class, 25% of his class would have been happier doing the the PA pathway. That is staggering in a class of 100 people. We're not even talking about the people who wouldn't do medicine either which might even be bigger.

Sorry, but whether you like it or not while Obamacare may be nuked (I don't think it will, but let's say the Halbig case causes the law to self-destruct), many of its components are here to stay. For example, already health insurance companies are starting to move away from fee for service towards outcomes-based payment. The govt. is sick of healthcare expenditures crowding out other things they need to fund -- i.e. higher education. It's literally busting state budgets and the federal budget.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
This thread is very true and its something that more premeds need to understand. If it's something that they don't really care about thats fine, but it's better to know more sooner than later.
To me the worst part about medicine isn't the money.. I have a ton of loans, and salary is decreasing, but in the end I know I'll be able to live off it.
The worst part is the lost time and opportunity... time is something you will never back. I will be spending my entire 20s studying away, having accomplished not much of anything. Not only that, the entire medical school process has made my health worse, due to stress + lost sleep etc. Your 20s should be when you are exploring, and these days I'm literally seeing tons of travelling pictures b/c that's what 20s yr olds do when they first get a full time job. They don't have to worry much about retirement fund or supporting their family. It's a time/opportunity that I will never experience.

To premeds who care about lifestyle money, if you are smart enough to make it into med school, then you are smart enough to do relatively well in other places (just choose the right major/field). I don't have a single CS friend who is unemployed, most make close to 6 figures right out of college, and one just switched to a 200k+ job this year after only 2.5 yrs out of college, working 45 hr weeks.. (Clearly this doesn't represent the general public, but medical students arne't the general public either). All my engineering friends found jobs as well, with most having a starting of ~70k. All these are before benefits (these private companies have some nice benefits..). Law students comparable to medical students are making 100-160k right out of law school.. (no im not talking about a rank 1000 law school).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I don't see that the lashing out by some here is warranted. Certainly the OP is immature and that's clear and I think that's where his motives for and against medicine came from. But someone who says they don't want to try for med school anymore and takes the time to state their reasons, even if they are naive, immature or shortsighted in their reasoning, shouldn't be censured so severely. That's stupid and I think the snarky comments are made less for rhetorical effect and more so to generate "likes" and to stir the pot.

Someone who's going through a process of learning shouldn't be hounded by their peers, especially when those peers have basically the same degree of experience and accomplishment to the OP.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
To premeds who care about lifestyle money, if you are smart enough to make it into med school, then you are smart enough to do relatively well in other places (just choose the right major/field). I don't have a single CS friend who is unemployed, most make close to 6 figures right out of college, and one just switched to a 200k+ job this year after only 2.5 yrs out of college, working 45 hr weeks.. (Clearly this doesn't represent the general public, but medical students arne't the general public either). All my engineering friends found jobs as well, with most having a starting of ~70k. All these are before benefits (these private companies have some nice benefits..). Law students comparable to medical students are making 100-160k right out of law school.. (no im not talking about a rank 1000 law school).

Do you have any poor friends :unsure:
 
Do you have any poor friends :unsure:

Of course, people who don't choose the high paying majors. Art, english, spanish (And i guess other languages but i didn't really know anyone who majored in others). And I did go to a top 20 college, which I'm sure many people here did/do as well

But being a science person, and someone who majored in science, I mostly know people who did something sciency (other than business i guess). Though most of my non cs/engineering science friends went on to some type of grad school. Most will be fairy well off, except perhaps for the PhD kids... that's more up to their research
 
And you think other premeds who don't voice what he's saying are any better?

Nearly every MS-4 who stands on their soapbox about how physicians should work for peanuts and sacrifice their lives for medicine and should hold Mother Theresa-like ideals, by the time MS-4 comes around are the first to go for specialties with higher paychecks, better lifestyle, or work for academia where they definitely work less hours than they would in private practice (esp. if they have residents under them). Mimelim gave the statistic that in his med school class, 25% of his class would have been happier doing the the PA pathway. That is staggering in a class of 100 people. We're not even talking about the people who wouldn't do medicine either which might even be bigger.

Sorry, but whether you like it or not while Obamacare may be nuked (I don't think it will, but let's say the Halbig case causes the law to self-destruct), many of its components are here to stay. For example, already health insurance companies are starting to move away from fee for service towards outcomes-based payment. The govt. is sick of healthcare expenditures crowding out other things they need to fund -- i.e. higher education. It's literally busting state budgets and the federal budget.
:rofl: I never said anything about some Mother Theresa BS. I just think it's a calling, and either you're built for it or you're not. Physicians in Russia make less than street sweepers, and yet they still fill their medical school classes, because for some reason, people want to do it. For me, it isn't so much about helping humanity as it is about medicine being something I actually enjoy- helping people is sort of a secondary thing.

I'm totally okay with outcomes-based payments though. FFS was kind of a horrible idea from the start.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
This thread is very true and its something that more premeds need to understand. If it's something that they don't really care about thats fine, but it's better to know more sooner than later.
To me the worst part about medicine isn't the money.. I have a ton of loans, and salary is decreasing, but in the end I know I'll be able to live off it.
The worst part is the lost time and opportunity... time is something you will never back. I will be spending my entire 20s studying away, having accomplished not much of anything. Not only that, the entire medical school process has made my health worse, due to stress + lost sleep etc. Your 20s should be when you are exploring, and these days I'm literally seeing tons of travelling pictures b/c that's what 20s yr olds do when they first get a full time job. They don't have to worry much about retirement fund or supporting their family. It's a time/opportunity that I will never experience.

To premeds who care about lifestyle money, if you are smart enough to make it into med school, then you are smart enough to do relatively well in other places (just choose the right major/field). I don't have a single CS friend who is unemployed, most make close to 6 figures right out of college, and one just switched to a 200k+ job this year after only 2.5 yrs out of college, working 45 hr weeks.. (Clearly this doesn't represent the general public, but medical students arne't the general public either). All my engineering friends found jobs as well, with most having a starting of ~70k. All these are before benefits (these private companies have some nice benefits..). Law students comparable to medical students are making 100-160k right out of law school.. (no im not talking about a rank 1000 law school).
You mean 60-70?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
:rofl: I never said anything about some Mother Theresa BS. I just think it's a calling, and either you're built for it or you're not. Physicians in Russia make less than street sweepers, and yet they still fill their medical school classes, because for some reason, people want to do it. For me, it isn't so much about helping humanity as it is about medicine being something I actually enjoy- helping people is sort of a secondary thing.

I'm totally okay with outcomes-based payments though. FFS was kind of a horrible idea from the start.
I never said you said that. But there is a lot of involved when something is a calling - something that is very difficult for premeds to grasp. Physicians in Russia also do not have the educational system we do, the barriers to entry that we do, the technology and new treatments that we do, and don't take on the level of debt that American physicians do or work the hours we do.

FFS isn't a horrible idea. It doesn't make sense to pay a physician on certain metrics many of which the physician has no control over. It will only lead to physicians kicking patients off their rolls. It would be like your dentist only being reimbursed if you didn't get any future cavities.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I never said you said that. But there is a lot of involved when something is a calling - something that is very difficult for premeds to grasp. Physicians in Russia also do not have the educational system we do, the barriers to entry that we do, the technology and new treatments that we do, and don't take on the level of debt that American physicians do or work the hours we do.

FFS isn't a horrible idea. It doesn't make sense to pay a physician on certain metrics many of which the physician has no control over. It will only lead to physicians kicking patients off their rolls. It would be like your dentist only being reimbursed if you didn't get any future cavities.
FFS certainly isn't the perfect model of physician payment though.
 
:rofl: I never said anything about some Mother Theresa BS. I just think it's a calling, and either you're built for it or you're not. Physicians in Russia make less than street sweepers, and yet they still fill their medical school classes, because for some reason, people want to do it. For me, it isn't so much about helping humanity as it is about medicine being something I actually enjoy- helping people is sort of a secondary thing.

I'm totally okay with outcomes-based payments though. FFS was kind of a horrible idea from the start.

It seems hard for people to seem genuine when communicating their motives for attempting to enter medicine, at least SDN seems to have planted that notion in my mind. I wouldn't say that medicine itself is a calling so much as the tasks and activities involved in and crucial to medicine are the calling, if one even wants to use that word.
 
FFS certainly isn't the perfect model of physician payment though.
No reimbursement system is perfect. There will always be "winners" and "losers". However, outcomes based payments will make everyone worse off, including the people it's supposed to allegedly help which is primary care.
 
It seems hard for people to seem genuine when communicating their motives for attempting to enter medicine, at least SDN seems to have planted that notion in my mind. I wouldn't say that medicine itself is a calling so much as the tasks and activities involved in and crucial to medicine are the calling, if one even wants to use that word.
Bc many of those reasons are taboo. It doesn't change the underlying reason of why you should do medicine. Your underlying reasons will be tested many times during med school and beyond.
 
You mean 60-70?

Rank 60-70? Sure. Seeing as how large the law school sizes are and how good med students are at taking tests, getting into a top 60 law school shouldn't be a problem.

Regarding the pay... http://abovethelaw.com/2014/08/nati...-could-philadelphia-to-160k-drive-ny-to-190k/

I'm taking about decent law schools... you do realize that close to 50000 students go to law school per year right... that's almost 3 times as much as medical students / yr, so i'm only comparing to decent law students... makes sense?
 
It seems hard for people to seem genuine when communicating their motives for attempting to enter medicine, at least SDN seems to have planted that notion in my mind. I wouldn't say that medicine itself is a calling so much as the tasks and activities involved in and crucial to medicine are the calling, if one even wants to use that word.
Medicine, for me, was a calling. Not because of saving people. Not because of bulls*** altruism. Because I'm good at it, and it's a wonderful example of applied science that I love to play with. I actually enjoy it. I'd literally do it as a hobby if there were no liability attached, because I enjoy the whole process that much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
community hospitals are moving toward exclusively contracting physicians to work for them as opposed to putting someone in a private practice on the schedule. thus, alienating those in private practice from the hospital. things are changing a lot. most md programs clinical rotations are at academic hospitals so we don't get to see what things are really like and how the aca is taking full effect.

also, ive heard of hospitals taking a chunk out of your pay cut if you don't see your patients in a certain amount of time (this is terrible!).
 
Last edited:
Bc many of those reasons are taboo. It doesn't change the underlying reason of why you should do medicine. Your underlying reasons will be tested many times during med school and beyond.
But I feel as if fleshing out those reasons are important from a self-actualization standpoint, as that is an important factor for anyone to excel. It is true that some motives are taboo, but I was also speaking along the lines of the atmosphere, at least as I see it here fosters almost a "standard" motive, which is to help people, as if that is the only reason to enter medicine and as if helping people is the only thing doctors do. Perhaps that atmosphere I mentioned is born of the supposed taboos, but all I can say for certain is that most people I meet on SDN and even IRL are, on average, quite 2D in their reasoning for choosing medicine as a career.
 
But I feel as if fleshing out those reasons are important from a self-actualization standpoint, as that is an important factor for anyone to excel. It is true that some motives are taboo, but I was also speaking along the lines of the atmosphere, at least as I see it here fosters almost a "standard" motive, which is to help people, as if that is the only reason to enter medicine and as if helping people is the only thing doctors do. Perhaps that atmosphere I mentioned is born of the supposed taboos, but all I can say for certain is that most people I meet on SDN and even IRL are, on average, quite 2D in their reasoning for choosing medicine as a career.
I agree. From a self-actualization standpoint it is something one should know, before jumping in. Medical schools are quite aware that "helping people" isn't a good reason, as there are many professions that "help people". You can "help people" a lot without plunging yourself into 6 figures of debt.
 
community hospitals are moving toward exclusively contracting physicians to work for them as opposed to putting someone in a private practice on the schedule. thus, alienating those in private practice from the hospital. things are changing a lot. most md programs clinical rotations are at academic hospitals so we don't get to see what things are really like and how the aca is taking full effect.

also, ive heard of hospitals taking a chunk out of your pay cut if you don't see your patients in a certain amount of time (this is terrible!).
At the ED I used to scribe for, the pay went like this:
Each doc was scheduled for a certain number of shifts/hours each month. They were actually charged money for each hour they were allotted. Even if, say, they get called off for 3hrs on a slow day, they paid for those hours. They were expected to see enough patients to make that up - it was considered a motivational technique for high throughput.
They were also expected to pay a certain percentage of the PA salary costs, but in return the group split all PA patient visit profits, as the PAs were salaried.
Apparently it paid very well and was a good deal, but to me it just seemed like a rather disrespectful setup.
 
At the ED I used to scribe for, the pay went like this:
Each doc was scheduled for a certain number of shifts/hours each month. They were actually charged money for each hour they were allotted. Even if, say, they get called off for 3hrs on a slow day, they paid for those hours. They were expected to see enough patients to make that up - it was considered a motivational technique for high throughput.
They were also expected to pay a certain percentage of the PA salary costs, but in return the group split all PA patient visit profits, as the PAs were salaried.
Apparently it paid very well and was a good deal, but to me it just seemed like a rather disrespectful setup.
Granted I have an extremely limited set of hospital experience to draw from...that setup sounds like it could foster some serious internal hostility. Unless that a common sort of system?
 
Granted I have an extremely limited set of hospital experience to draw from...that setup sounds like it could foster some serious internal hostility. Unless that a common sort of system?
Meh, it seemed like they mostly ignored it, unless they got a bit antsy on slow days because they were losing money. Fortunately (?) those were pretty rare.
 
I'm actually surprised you're saying they're expected to see enough patients. I'd think with the ACA the ED would be swamped every hour of the day.
 
I'm actually surprised you're saying they're expected to see enough patients. I'd think with the ACA the ED would be swamped every hour of the day.
It's the ED...a third of our patients never had insurance in the first place, so it really didn't change much with the ACA. Now maybe they actually get paid for a few more of the visits :shrug:

It pretty much is swamped except for a 4hr lull from ~2am-6am. The policy is ridiculous, hinging on the idea that if the docs were salaried, they'd sit there with 50 patients in the waiting room and just slowly chug along, oblivious. That's why I find it disrespectful, because it presupposes that the docs would not work hard to see patients when there was a clear backlog, when in fact the 'pink tail' (as it was called in our place due to our EMR layout) seemed to exponentially increase their stress even if there was little they could do about it. From what I've seen, each doc has their own rhythm/pace and the number of patients in the ER has only a small effect on that, because they are already trying to be efficient and productive. The biggest impedance to throughput was often inpatient staffing - when 1/3 of your ED beds are tied up with patients who were supposed to be in rooms 6-12hrs ago, you simply cannot see people as quickly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Along this line of discussion...what is it about a universal healthcare system that supposedly makes physician salaries comparatively lower than within other systems? Is it that they are effectively salaried by the state?
 
This thread is very true and its something that more premeds need to understand. If it's something that they don't really care about thats fine, but it's better to know more sooner than later.
To me the worst part about medicine isn't the money.. I have a ton of loans, and salary is decreasing, but in the end I know I'll be able to live off it.
The worst part is the lost time and opportunity... time is something you will never back. I will be spending my entire 20s studying away, having accomplished not much of anything. Not only that, the entire medical school process has made my health worse, due to stress + lost sleep etc. Your 20s should be when you are exploring, and these days I'm literally seeing tons of travelling pictures b/c that's what 20s yr olds do when they first get a full time job. They don't have to worry much about retirement fund or supporting their family. It's a time/opportunity that I will never experience.

I empathize with you and like you, have had twinges of envy seeing what my employed peers are doing. Ultimately though, I'm spending my 20s building a foundation to do what I love doing someday, which is medicine and taking care of patients. There is beauty and satisfaction to be found in the small, seemingly mundane occurrences... if you choose to see it. The journey is the joy. If you've spent your 20s in school, as I have done... well, you can't miss what you never had in the first place! :D

There is no way to happiness... happiness is the way. :happy: Shut down your facebook because those people travelling and appearing to have all this fun that you're not having certainly don't have perfect lives. They might wake up one day and realize they've wasted their potential by living directionless lives in their 20s as opposed to working towards a professional degree that will give them the opportunity for limitless advancement. Or maybe they won't. Who knows? Your 20s should be about you finding your own path, whether that involves exploring the world or staying in one place, working to better yourself and reach your highest potential in your chosen field. As an example of someone lamenting a missed opportunity, my mother regrets not going for her PhD. She's 67 now and she still brings it up from time to time.

Life doesn't end when you hit 35 or 40!

That probably doesn't help you to feel better about your situation, but I thought it was a perspective worth considering, if you haven't thought of framing your life choices that way.

P.S. I'm not a med student yet, so perhaps this mentality is totally naive. Just speaking from the experience of being in undergrad for so long. Maybe medical school sucks 100x more and makes you feel like you're completely missing out on everything joyful in life? Hoping that's not the case!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Along this line of discussion...what is it about a universal healthcare system that supposedly makes physician salaries comparatively lower than within other systems? Is it that they are effectively salaried by the state?
Bc in a single payer system, the govt. is the only game in town. Hence they can throttle down reimbursements to as low as they want.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Bc in a single payer system, the govt. is the only game in town. Hence they can throttle down reimbursements to as low as they want.
That makes sense, but at some level the incentives for anyone to enter medicine would eventually be outweighed by the cons. I suppose if such a system were implemented nationwide, then something would have to be done about physician debt in order to keep people entering the field.
 
.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I empathize with you and like you, have had twinges of envy seeing what my employed peers are doing. Ultimately though, I'm spending my 20s building a foundation to do what I love doing someday, which is medicine and taking care of patients. There is beauty and satisfaction to be found in the small, seemingly mundane occurrences... if you choose to see it. The journey is the joy. If you've spent your 20s in school, as I have done... well, you can't miss what you never had in the first place! :D

There is no way to happiness... happiness is the way. :happy: Shut down your facebook because those people travelling and appearing to have all this fun that you're not having certainly don't have perfect lives. They might wake up one day and realize they've wasted their potential by living directionless lives in their 20s as opposed to working towards a professional degree that will give them the opportunity for limitless advancement. Or maybe they won't. Who knows? Your 20s should be about you finding your own path, whether that involves exploring the world or staying in one place, working to better yourself and reach your highest potential in your chosen field. As an example of someone lamenting a missed opportunity, my mother regrets not going for her PhD. She's 67 now and she still brings it up from time to time.

Life doesn't end when you hit 35 or 40!

That probably doesn't help you to feel better about your situation, but I thought it was a perspective worth considering, if you haven't thought of framing your life choices that way.

P.S. I'm not a med student yet, so perhaps this mentality is totally naive. Just speaking from the experience of being in undergrad for so long. Maybe medical school sucks 100x more and makes you feel like you're completely missing out on everything joyful in life? Hoping that's not the case!

Haha i feel like i could visually see peoples mood go down as med school progresses... though some of them go back up a bit after 2nd yr
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
That makes sense, but at some level the incentives for anyone to enter medicine would eventually be outweighed by the cons. I suppose if such a system were implemented nationwide, then something would have to be done about physician debt in order to keep people entering the field.

That is exactly what this thread is about: Is it worth becoming a doctor when reimbursement is on the decline? And I don't mean that simply from a self-serving standpoint. If reimbursement declines, paying back student loans is going to become a lot more difficult.

When a medical student devotes as much time as they do to their studies, they should have a great sense of monetary gain once everything is said and done. Unfortunately, what's happening is quite the opposite. Combine that with the arduous hours in school, residency, and the job itself, and you leave yourself in a profession where you must be entirely about your line of work to be happy.
 
That makes sense, but at some level the incentives for anyone to enter medicine would eventually be outweighed by the cons. I suppose if such a system were implemented nationwide, then something would have to be done about physician debt in order to keep people entering the field.
With single payer, the game is essentially over. The govt. dictates the reimbursement of everything. There are no other players in town who can give a better deal. The govt. decides what things it will cover and which things it will not (i.e. whether to give cancer chemotherapy for a 70 year old), which if Medicaid and Medicare are any indicators in terms of reimbursement - it's not a good thing. You are right, something would have to be done about debt, but realize this is years in, when many people are already locked in regardless.

I imagine though that medical school would be much more funded by the govt. since you'd be working in a govt. funded system.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
That is exactly what this thread is about: Is it worth becoming a doctor when reimbursement is on the decline? And I don't mean that simply from a self-serving standpoint. If reimbursement declines, paying back student loans is going to become a lot more difficult.

When a medical student devotes as much time as they do to their studies, they should have a great sense of monetary gain once everything is said and done. Unfortunately, what's happening is quite the opposite. Combine that with the arduous hours in school, residency, and the job itself, and you leave yourself in a profession where you must be entirely about your line of work to be happy.
Your assumption is that we'd still be in a fee-for-service system. That may or may not be the case. With outcomes based payments, your payments will be much more dependent on how your patients do outside of the office.

You are correct -- things like prestige, job security, pleasing one's parents, and myriad of other reasons aren't good reasons not bc those things aren't nice to have, but bc those things won't sustain you when things get rough. You might last and even ace the first 2 years of medical school when nearly all the learning and assessment is thru didactic lecture and multiple choice exams (maybe practicals in Anatomy). However, MS-3, internship, residency (depending on specialty) will completely crush you. By that time, it's too late to quit and you have no choice but to go forward.

Just "loving science" or liking learning medical information isn't enough of a reason to go to medical school and take on that level of student debt. I think you have to have those reasons, but by themselves it isn't enough, esp. since medicine is affected a lot by other players in the system. That's very difficult for premeds to understand grasp. Be lucky you figured it out this far in advance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Your assumption is that we'd still be in a fee-for-service system. That may or may not be the case. With outcomes based payments, your payments will be much more dependent on how your patients do outside of the office.

You are correct -- things like prestige, job security, pleasing one's parents, and myriad of other reasons aren't good reasons not bc those things aren't nice to have, but bc those things won't sustain you when things get rough. You might last and even ace the first 2 years of medical school when nearly all the learning and assessment is thru didactic lecture and multiple choice exams (maybe practicals in Anatomy). However, MS-3, internship, residency (depending on specialty) will completely crush you. By that time, it's too late to quit and you have no choice but to go forward.

Just "loving science" or liking learning medical information isn't enough of a reason to go to medical school and take on that level of student debt. I think you have to have those reasons, but by themselves it isn't enough, esp. since medicine is affected a lot by other players in the system. That's very difficult for premeds to understand grasp. Be lucky you figured it out this far in advance.
The great thing about America is that you can totally opt out of the system if it sucks enough. If you don't like the way insurance is paying, don't take insurance.
 
Top