Why I may kiss a partnership track goodbye..

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InGasWeTrust

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Guys,

After poking my head around in different groups for a while, I am unfortunately convinced that the whole partnership track opportunities that are available are not for me.

I am a finishing CA3 and feel competent in my ability to be a consultant anesthesiologist. Unfortunately, it seems that most groups want to abuse you for the opportunity to one day, someday,maybe become a partner...And we all know that tommorrow is not promised. And even more so in anesthesiology where the change of hospital administration can result in lost contracts and with it the opportunity to have become "partner".

I tried to make sense of it all, but the reality is that the old guys want the new guys to continue to pay there way for them. My last offer just pushed me into saying the hell with it, and go for the money not the opportunity. The reality is Im not fellowship trained or BC but Im flexible in where I will live and I am willing to work hard.

So with all that said I am expanding my focus to different regions and looking to make serious money. I think Jet struck a nerve with me with his "fuk u account" :thumbup: comment. Perhaps if I sacrifice a little upfront in terms of location and quality of life I can plant a financial seed that will allow me to live and do whatever I desire later down the line.:idea:

Im now looking for highly compensated short term contracts, locums gigs or throwing out some RFP's. As a semi savvy doc, I cant just allow myself to be thrown to the wolves financially on the account of location or the promise of partnership.

So I welcome feedback, criticism and known opportunities.

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Your comment is a powerful statement and it speaks to the common practice of exploitation that exists in medicine whereby the young docs have to support the "partners". This type of indentured servitude should end when you graduate residency.

If you are a productive anesthesiologist, you should enjoy the full rewards that come with it. Screw the lazy dudes who want you to pay for their high-priced vacations and million-dollar homes.

Now if a group of gaspassers decides to band together, contribute the same amount of work and divvy up the earnings equally, then I have no problem joining a group.
 
InGasWetrust:
You are absolutely right, and if you are really flexible and willing to work hard you will make serious money.
99% of people who run anesthesia groups in "desirable" areas are simply crooks and you are lucky to realize that so early in your career.
Good luck my friend.
 
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InGasWetrust:
99% of people who run anesthesia groups in "desirable" areas are simply crooks and you are lucky to realize that so early in your career.
Good luck my friend.

We need something like scutworks,com to list anesthesia groups with reviews by former employees telling who owns them and how they treat their employees. Until then we need to do our own research as chesterfield describes.
Chesterfield lists some ways to look into groups to see how they plan to treat you.

You also need to look at the new section of gaswork.con. The "request for proposals" then "Search - Anesthesia Groups" which will show a list of most of the AMC you want to avoid. A number of the worst AMC's are playing games with their names and trying to pretend to be a partnership group and to trying to hide their past from their new employees. So you need to figure out if you are about to join a real partnership group or an AMC posing as one.

The UPIN number info is getting old soon there should be a NPI look up site that hopefully will show some good information. This site gives some NPI info and other good directory info.

http://www.hmedata.com/npi.asp

If anyone know of other good physician directory information web sites please post them to help the rest of us.

You know the routine, Dress the part, be nice, don't say anything controversial or negative. Pretend to be interested no matter how boring their endless discussion of their golfing skills is; don't order a dish more expensive than the boss. Avoid messy dishes.

Keep a copy of every communication you have with the group. Record or immediately write a summary of all oral conversation with any group members.

Use this opportunity to investigate the practice. Before you go check out the hospital web site for the names of the Anesthesia doctor who work there. Your goal is to find the names of all the doctors who have left the practice in the last few years. Google all of those names along with the names of the corporation. Asking for this information from the group will get you labeled as a malcontent but to take a job with out an investigation the backgrounds of your employers is a recipe for disaster.

When you get there try to get as many months of the call schedule as possible. Old call schedules often have phone number of recently departed members of the group, plus they tell you how fair the call schedule is.

While you are in town go to the county court house and look up the names of all of the members of the group looking for lawsuits.

If your interview goes well and you are seriously considering the group you need to contact the people who have left to get the real information about how he group treats its employees.

How to find old employees of a group;

Look up all the anesthesiologist in that town with the state licence database,
http://www.docboard.org/docfinder.html

Look up all the anesthesiologist in that town with the AMA directory, ASA Directories for the last three or four years.

Look up all the anesthesiologist in that town with UPIN number search, great for towns with more than one hospital since it lists the billing address with the name separating out different practice locations.
http://upin.ecare.com/
or
http://www.upinregistry.com/provider_form.asp

Another good database dr-411 since it gives some info not seen elsewhere,
http://www.dr-411.com/default.asp


With all the names you have found you should be able to find a few former employees to contact about the group since this is your best source of unbiased information.

These databases will help you get current names and addresses of former employees.

Google is often helpful.

Searching for current phone number and addresses
http://www.zabasearch.com/

or your favorite directory search database.

Doc board is good for finding some one who has moved;
http://www.docboard.org/docfinder.html
which may give a current address.

If you have no luck you might want to invest a few buck and ask your local detective to search for people you can't locate. They also can search for lawsuits more broadly than the court house.

Now call your names and politely ask them to tell you about there experience at your potential employer.

While this is just the basics, your hospital credential application probably will be ten to twenty pages of invasive questions, many of which will be verified. Why shouldn't you know as much about your potential employer?

If you do not find any skeletons in the closet or areas of concern you need to find a competent lawyer and some trusted friends to look at your contract. Finding a lawyer who knows anything about anesthesia contacts is very difficult many attorneys will claim to be able to review a contact. So just because your buddy and fellow resident used that attorney does not say much about his competence in reviewing anesthesia contacts and providing relevant feedback.

Lastly don't ever buy a house until you have been there at least a year or made partner.
But don't say that to the realtor they force you to take a "tour of the town" with, you can be sure that everything you say to her will funnel back the anesthesia group.
 
Become a shark--a Great White one. Locums is the route for the fuk u account. I never regretted my locums experience. Never once bought into all that partnership crap. Hook yourself up with 3-6 month cardiac locum gig and the money will be flowin' BIGTIME. Oh you a #s guy for the cardiac gig---weekdays: 7AM-3PM $220/hr guaranteed 8 hr., $500 for beeper call and after 3PM ya get $250/hr. weekends: $250/hr with the $500 beeper call. The hospital will gladly pay that rate but the agencies and anesthesia groups will choke. Try to bypass the locum agencies and deal directly with the hospital or anesthesia group. Prime example would be that Seattle thread where anesthesia group disbanded and runnin' on skeleton crew. Invite CEO out to fancy restaurant and pitch your gig. Boatload of work and a boatload of money. Carry your own med malp insurance. Get yourself 4-8 licenses early in your career(preferably after intern year) and become a road warrior. Let us know how it pans out... Regards, ----Zippy
 
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I agree that the partnership track is no bueno.

But let me propose another point of view. Say you started a group 10-20yrs ago and have created a great rapport with the hosp, adm's, surgeons, etc. Everyone loves working with your group and you reap the benefits of your hard work. Because of your success your practice is growing rapidly. You need to add more docs but you can't just add them willy nilly. You need to know how they will fit in with the group and the practice. You need to know their skills. You can offer them partnership right off the bat but that wouldn't really be fair since they are riding on your coattails. They are reaping the benefits of your hard work. In cases like these I am for some short term partnership track (not 3 years like some groups). Pay and work load can be negotiated but voting rights and group decisions need to remain with the long term partners. I could go on forever about this but I think you get the idea.

Theres always two sides to a coin. Long term partner tracks should go by the wayside but the shorter 6 mon to 1 yr ones will and probably should remain.
 
99% of people who run anesthesia groups in "desirable" areas are simply crooks and you are lucky to realize that so early in your career.

In other words, stay out of Atlanta, Georgia. Crooks. All of them.

-copro
 
News flash, Atlanta Georgia is a desirable location.

I had no idea.:laugh:

Well, for a snow-boarding, mountain hiking dude like yourself, maybe not. But, having lived there temporarily before med school, I can definitely tell you this: it's babe central.

But, having done a cursory job search there, I'm not going to do a five-year partnership track stint making $170k working like a dog (as hard as I am now) only for the promise that I might become partner. Screw that noise. There's a lot of dummies out there willing to take that deal to be in that locale, and I say more power to 'em. There's hot chicks elsewhere too.

-copro
 
Become a shark--a Great White one. Locums is the route for the fuk u account. I never regretted my locums experience. Never once bought into all that partnership crap. Hook yourself up with 3-6 month cardiac locum gig and the money will be flowin' BIGTIME. Oh you a #s guy for the cardiac gig---weekdays: 7AM-3PM $220/hr guaranteed 8 hr., $500 for beeper call and after 3PM ya get $250/hr. weekends: $250/hr with the $500 beeper call. The hospital will gladly pay that rate but the agencies and anesthesia groups will choke. Try to bypass the locum agencies and deal directly with the hospital or anesthesia group. Prime example would be that Seattle thread where anesthesia group disbanded and runnin' on skeleton crew. Invite CEO out to fancy restaurant and pitch your gig. Boatload of work and a boatload of money. Carry your own med malp insurance. Get yourself 4-8 licenses early in your career(preferably after intern year) and become a road warrior. Let us know how it pans out... Regards, ----Zippy

Yeah, what's with the monopolies? Why is it that I don't have the right to go and offer my services directly to the hospital and negotiate directly with the bean counters?

If I am willing to work for less and provide a better service then I should be able to do that. Everyone has to pull their own weight.
 
If I am willing to work for less and provide a better service then I should be able to do that.

Nothing inherently wrong with that sentiment, except that it sort of pisses on the whole "strength in numbers" concept. People that negotiate as a group always have more power than the individual. That's the law of the land.

-copro
 
Back in the day, I had 6 licenses and locum med malp insurance of $1 million/$3 million which I could use in all 6 states. Good luck in finding some insurance like that again with the present day crisis. That'll be your roadblock for sure in today's climate. If I didn't have the family, Zip would be a Rolling Stone. Hot Damm, I can see it now... Zip runnin' down the freeway with a pimped out RV, wind blowin' the hair, puffin' on a cig, with some Jimmy Buffet tunes thrown in and my lil' hottie in the Captain's chair. Regards, ----Zippy
 
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Nothing inherently wrong with that sentiment, except that it sort of pisses on the whole "strength in numbers" concept. People that negotiate as a group always have more power than the individual. That's the law of the land.

-copro

ok maybe the work for less part is messed up but strength in numbers, at least in anesthesiology, always has a connotation of getting screwed financially to support the partners.
 
Zip runnin' down the freeway with a pimped out RV, wind blowin' the hair, puffin' on a cig, with some Jimmy Buffet tunes thrown in and my lil' hottie in the Captain's chair.

Dude, you have just clearly and expertly described my dream. This would make me happier than a pig in ****.

-copro
 
Planktonmd said:
99% of people who run anesthesia groups in "desirable" areas are simply crooks and you are lucky to realize that so early in your career.

I want to stay away from large cities and the coasts ... ie, what most people call "desirable" areas. Desirable to me isn't DC or New York or San Diego or Seattle or Miami; it's mountains in the Rockies ... somewhere. I don't care much exactly where, so long as it has tall rocks with snow and trees and not too many people.

What can I expect when I start my job search? People are filling my head with stories of higher pay and a lower cost of living out in that cultural vacuum. Which is OK with me ... but most discussions on this forum focus on big cities.
 
I agree that the partnership track is no bueno.

But let me propose another point of view. Say you started a group 10-20yrs ago and have created a great rapport with the hosp, adm's, surgeons, etc. Everyone loves working with your group and you reap the benefits of your hard work. Because of your success your practice is growing rapidly. You need to add more docs but you can't just add them willy nilly. You need to know how they will fit in with the group and the practice. You need to know their skills. You can offer them partnership right off the bat but that wouldn't really be fair since they are riding on your coattails. They are reaping the benefits of your hard work. In cases like these I am for some short term partnership track (not 3 years like some groups). Pay and work load can be negotiated but voting rights and group decisions need to remain with the long term partners. I could go on forever about this but I think you get the idea.

Theres always two sides to a coin. Long term partner tracks should go by the wayside but the shorter 6 mon to 1 yr ones will and probably should remain.



see that is where i disagree. The existing anesthesia group did not build a practice. They just showed up and didnt piss anyone off and did the cases. They were friendly to everyone and they made friends and thats it. There was no practice to build. ALl the patients are the surgeons. The group was there first.. thats the long and short of it.. And to deny a new attending his share. should be Illegal. Exclusive contracts actually should be illegal as well. I saw this early on... I have never been employed by anyone i am happy to say. I agree, however, the person administering the department should be compensated extra... maybe extra 500- 1000 dollars per week.
 
Re: Atlanta

.

But, having done a cursory job search there, I'm not going to do a five-year partnership track stint making $170k working like a dog (as hard as I am now) only for the promise that I might become partner. Screw that noise. There's a lot of dummies out there willing to take that deal to be in that locale, and I say more power to 'em.
-copro


Very true. I looked into it and the pay was crap with looonnnggg partnership tracks. Running 3-4 rooms while taking care of the preop clinic is not unusual. CRNA's are actually making more money than new residency graduates. And they expect you to contact them after interviewing like you are in need. Screw them. There are better cities elsewhere.
 
Re: Atlanta




Very true. I looked into it and the pay was crap with looonnnggg partnership tracks. Running 3-4 rooms while taking care of the preop clinic is not unusual. CRNA's are actually making more money than new residency graduates. And they expect you to contact them after interviewing like you are in need. Screw them. There are better cities elsewhere.

Sounds like the same offer I got in Austin when I finished residency. I didn't accept it. But Austin would have been nice.
 
see that is where i disagree. The existing anesthesia group did not build a practice. They just showed up and didnt piss anyone off and did the cases. They were friendly to everyone and they made friends and thats it. There was no practice to build. ALl the patients are the surgeons. The group was there first.. thats the long and short of it.. And to deny a new attending his share. should be Illegal.

That is building a practice in my book.:D
 
Sounds like the same offer I got in Austin when I finished residency. I didn't accept it. But Austin would have been nice.

Yes, but keep in mind the current market is very different from any other in the last 15 yrs. Private practice groups in Atlanta are ******ed.
 
How's that?

Come on man. Why play dumb?

Alright,

15-10 yrs ago there were no jobs and plenty of anesthesiologists. Now it's the other way around.
 
That is building a practice in my book.:D

no its not. its called showing up to work and doing cases. and excluding everyone else that is not in your group. say whatever you want.. but the fact still remains. pain management is a diff story though.
 
Hillary laughs at doctors wanting more money. partner track is for capitalists not socialists.

hillary.jpg
 
There are good groups out there. The problem is finding them. They usually don't advertise on gas works and they don't usually have to go through recruiters. There are groups that don't treat new hires like crap but there are plenty that do. Look at Noyac's post re questions to ask when interviewing. One of the most important things to do when looking at a new group is to figure out who has left the group and why. Talk to the partners who have left. They have no reason to tell you anything but the truth. Ask the questions on Noyac's post that are important to you. There are definite benefits to being a member of a strong group equitable group. Stability, experience, and leadership are probably the most important. When you look at job that is offering alot more than the average for that region there is probably a reason. Look hard for that reason. Partnership tracks are not inherently bad. You just have make sure that those 1-2 years spent making less and/or working more are worth it in the end. You also have to make sure that the promised partnership is a real, tangible entity and that the group does not have a history of firing good people before they are allowed to make partner. As for the employed position that offers you ridiculous money, I would just make sure that the position is sustainable for as long as you need to make that kind of money. One of the worst things you can do as a new grad is go and get stuck somewhere you hate. Getting stuck can happen in multiple ways, either financially (buying the big house and the big car and not being able to take a pay cut to go to a different location) or contractually. Whatever you do, just remember it probably will not be the last job you have. Good Luck.
 
Thanks for all the comments and support.

I am in no way antigroup per se! I just think as a newly minted non BC anesthesiologist I dont have much leverage. I am vulnerable because all I know is hardwork and little pay. And we all know groups prey on new grads for that exact reason. For better or worse I have a clue about RVU's, med mal insurance, and the business of anesthesia etc....

I just cant in good conscious take a 100k-200k+/yr hit for 2 yrs on a hope and promise that I will someday make partner. I know there are good even great groups out there and I know with time and hard work I will find a good fit for myself. In reality I think I will be able to form a group from the ground up!

In the meantime I will just go for the best compensation so that in a year or two I can chose where I want to live and have the experience, board certification and inside knowledge to partner with the right group or even start one.

Example of mediocore opportunity:
One group offered me 4 24hr calls/month with 4 2nd calls a month and 4 weeks of vacation for 275k/yr..........with basically malpractice/health/disability ins covered as the only benefits covered with a 3yr tract but never told me what partners make, or more importantly showed me the books.......

I will make sure to keep everyone posted but I am convinced after some phonecalls and chats that I can make in excess of 550k on a 1099 without even working harder than I am currently.
 
Hillary laughs at doctors wanting more money. partner track is for capitalists not socialists.

When She beats McCain we all will be working at th VA for 100K to 110K per year.
 
Thanks for all the comments and support.

I am in no way antigroup per se! I just think as a newly minted non BC anesthesiologist I dont have much leverage. I am vulnerable because all I know is hardwork and little pay. And we all know groups prey on new grads for that exact reason. For better or worse I have a clue about RVU's, med mal insurance, and the business of anesthesia etc....

I just cant in good conscious take a 100k-200k+/yr hit for 2 yrs on a hope and promise that I will someday make partner. I know there are good even great groups out there and I know with time and hard work I will find a good fit for myself. In reality I think I will be able to form a group from the ground up!

In the meantime I will just go for the best compensation so that in a year or two I can chose where I want to live and have the experience, board certification and inside knowledge to partner with the right group or even start one.

Example of mediocore opportunity:
One group offered me 4 24hr calls/month with 4 2nd calls a month and 4 weeks of vacation for 275k/yr..........with basically malpractice/health/disability ins covered as the only benefits covered with a 3yr tract but never told me what partners make, or more importantly showed me the books.......

I will make sure to keep everyone posted but I am convinced after some phonecalls and chats that I can make in excess of 550k on a 1099 without even working harder than I am currently.

If they can't be honest with something as simple as what a partner's projected or past salary would be, they probably aren't being honest about other things. Keep looking. Expand your search. Talk to your program director and other residents (both in your class and recently graduated). These people are great resources for your job search. Most good jobs are not advertised.
 
Guys,

After poking my head around in different groups for a while, I am unfortunately convinced that the whole partnership track opportunities that are available are not for me.

I am a finishing CA3 and feel competent in my ability to be a consultant anesthesiologist. Unfortunately, it seems that most groups want to abuse you for the opportunity to one day, someday,maybe become a partner...And we all know that tommorrow is not promised. And even more so in anesthesiology where the change of hospital administration can result in lost contracts and with it the opportunity to have become "partner".

I tried to make sense of it all, but the reality is that the old guys want the new guys to continue to pay there way for them. My last offer just pushed me into saying the hell with it, and go for the money not the opportunity. The reality is Im not fellowship trained or BC but Im flexible in where I will live and I am willing to work hard.

So with all that said I am expanding my focus to different regions and looking to make serious money. I think Jet struck a nerve with me with his "fuk u account" :thumbup: comment. Perhaps if I sacrifice a little upfront in terms of location and quality of life I can plant a financial seed that will allow me to live and do whatever I desire later down the line.:idea:

Im now looking for highly compensated short term contracts, locums gigs or throwing out some RFP's. As a semi savvy doc, I cant just allow myself to be thrown to the wolves financially on the account of location or the promise of partnership.

So I welcome feedback, criticism and known opportunities.


I am currently a CA3 and I feel exactly the same way as you. A few of my attendings have said "what is wrong with you. why haven't you found a job yet." And I say " i simply do not trust these groups." So now i am applying for licenses in Florida and south carolina (already have Georgia license) for locums opportunities.

Maybe others who have done locums can help me. Which companies should I join with? Are there locums companies that have better opportunities for the southeast? What about malpractice insurance? Do the locums companies provide good malpractice or should I get my own? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
 
Contact about 3 locum agencies to start---Daniel and Yeager, Jackson and Coker and locum tenens.com. That should give ya a start. Ask a bunch of questions and they'll walk ya through it all. They will provide you with malp insurance when you are on assignment with them- not a problem. When you bypass them, you will need your own insurance. Seek and devour, like the Great White... Regards, ---Zippy
 
Example of mediocore opportunity:
One group offered me 4 24hr calls/month with 4 2nd calls a month and 4 weeks of vacation for 275k/yr..........with basically malpractice/health/disability ins covered as the only benefits covered with a 3yr tract but never told me what partners make, or more importantly showed me the books.......

I will make sure to keep everyone posted but I am convinced after some phonecalls and chats that I can make in excess of 550k on a 1099 without even working harder than I am currently.

It astonishes me how many people would accept that position you described. MOreover, i cant believe how many anesthesiologists dont have any idea how much the practice they are working for generates even if they are partner. Mind boggling.
 
I am in no way antigroup per se! I just think as a newly minted non BC anesthesiologist I dont have much leverage. I am vulnerable because all I know is hardwork and little pay. And we all know groups prey on new grads for that exact reason. For better or worse I have a clue about RVU's, med mal insurance, and the business of anesthesia etc....
YOu are just like everyone else lookig for a job. Have you ever heard anyone say that they don't work hard? But we all know that they are out there. So find something that makes you different.

I just cant in good conscious take a 100k-200k+/yr hit for 2 yrs on a hope and promise that I will someday make partner. I know there are good even great groups out there and I know with time and hard work I will find a good fit for myself. In reality I think I will be able to form a group from the ground up!

While this may be true, I learned more from my previous group regarding how to run a successful anesthesia practice than I could possibly have learned through locums. I did make less than the partners, a lot less, but I was well paid. Had good vacation time and was treated very well overall. I have done what you wish to do, I started my own group and I have been able to make it work by because of the skills my previous group taught me.

In the meantime I will just go for the best compensation so that in a year or two I can chose where I want to live and have the experience, board certification and inside knowledge to partner with the right group or even start one.

Thats a bold plan b/c so much relies on luck and being in the right place at the right time.

Example of mediocore opportunity:
One group offered me 4 24hr calls/month with 4 2nd calls a month and 4 weeks of vacation for 275k/yr..........with basically malpractice/health/disability ins covered as the only benefits covered with a 3yr tract but never told me what partners make, or more importantly showed me the books.......

Thats pretty standard for bigger established groups. You may not want this type of group but the books will be open to you if they decide they want you. If not then you have the right to second guess them. If they want to keep you, they will show you the books.

I am not trying to rain on your parade. I'm just offering you and others some of my reality. Don't look at this whole job search with money as your primary concern. When "we" come out of residency we are as green as we will ever be. You have skills to succeed but they need to be honed. You will learn as much or more in your first few years of PP then you did in residency as long as you are in the right group. Some can do this through the locums route (zippy) but others will benefit more from the big established groups. I will tell you that the locums I have experienced are way behind unless they have been in a good group in the past. Even the ones that are academic mostly are behind. They don't get it. We have had a number of academic attendings come for locums to make some extra cash. In short none of them have been invited back. Hell, I could go on forever about this. PM me if you want more.
 
And another thing.

I am not saying that Zippy and Johan are wrong at all. But they are unique. Their way works for them and may work for you. But I prefer a group with its camaraderie and its influence. There is power in numbers.

Zippy and Johan are "special".:love::love:
 
Many say I'm "touched" but I'll go along with "special." Regards, ---Zip
 
Yes, but keep in mind the current market is very different from any other in the last 15 yrs. Private practice groups in Atlanta are ******ed.

You must have looked at the wrong group. The newer guys in our practice have a pretty sweet deal.
 
Many say I'm "touched" but I'll go along with "special." Regards, ---Zip

How Zippy gets to work everyday...

shortbus.jpg

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... and how Jet would get to work everyday if he had Zippy's gig...

13829.JPG


:laugh:

-copro
 
Excess of 550k as a new resident?

I've heard that this is nearly impossible even as a partner in a good group.

The 275k starting with a 3 year track seems to be the average I've heard about. Am I just way off, or what?

Thanks for all the comments and support.

I am in no way antigroup per se! I just think as a newly minted non BC anesthesiologist I dont have much leverage. I am vulnerable because all I know is hardwork and little pay. And we all know groups prey on new grads for that exact reason. For better or worse I have a clue about RVU's, med mal insurance, and the business of anesthesia etc....

I just cant in good conscious take a 100k-200k+/yr hit for 2 yrs on a hope and promise that I will someday make partner. I know there are good even great groups out there and I know with time and hard work I will find a good fit for myself. In reality I think I will be able to form a group from the ground up!

In the meantime I will just go for the best compensation so that in a year or two I can chose where I want to live and have the experience, board certification and inside knowledge to partner with the right group or even start one.

Example of mediocore opportunity:
One group offered me 4 24hr calls/month with 4 2nd calls a month and 4 weeks of vacation for 275k/yr..........with basically malpractice/health/disability ins covered as the only benefits covered with a 3yr tract but never told me what partners make, or more importantly showed me the books.......

I will make sure to keep everyone posted but I am convinced after some phonecalls and chats that I can make in excess of 550k on a 1099 without even working harder than I am currently.
 
Re: Atlanta




Very true. I looked into it and the pay was crap with looonnnggg partnership tracks. Running 3-4 rooms while taking care of the preop clinic is not unusual. CRNA's are actually making more money than new residency graduates. And they expect you to contact them after interviewing like you are in need. Screw them. There are better cities elsewhere.

I agree, groups INSIDE the perimeter of Atlanta will ask you to bend over and take it for 4-6 years. That's why you have to accept living OUTSIDE the perimeter ;) I live 25 minutes from downtown and didn't have to take it in the b utt. Decent opportunities still exist in metro areas of "desireable" cities, you just have to look. Then again, I guess it depends on what you consider a "desireable city" and what you consider decent. I've no complaints...yet.

Cheers,
PMMD
 
This may be a little off-topic in this thread, but I'll ask my question anyway.

What about staff anesthesiologist positions in groups where the docs are employees of the hospital/medical system?

While there is a group dynamic, it's not quite PP where you're gearing up to make partner and increase the salary share you receive. You may not go up as high in salary, but you can hopefully count on a slow, but linear, increase in your salary with each passing year of service.

I am going to be interviewing for a position that offers something like this, so that's why I ask. Job not in a big city, but an area of need. Starting salary is national median, approx. $364K plus bennies.

Anyone care to comment on this sort of working scenario?

- Ket
 
Which survey had a national median salary of $364k?


This may be a little off-topic in this thread, but I'll ask my question anyway.

What about staff anesthesiologist positions in groups where the docs are employees of the hospital/medical system?

While there is a group dynamic, it's not quite PP where you're gearing up to make partner and increase the salary share you receive. You may not go up as high in salary, but you can hopefully count on a slow, but linear, increase in your salary with each passing year of service.

I am going to be interviewing for a position that offers something like this, so that's why I ask. Job not in a big city, but an area of need. Starting salary is national median, approx. $364K plus bennies.

Anyone care to comment on this sort of working scenario?

- Ket
 
Which survey had a national median salary of $364k?

I think it was the MGMA who did that...but I didn't actually see the numbers firsthand. That said, I may have mis-quoted the number but not the source. If you know of numbers that contradict this, please let me know. When I interview, it would be helpful to know that going in to it.

Also, based on the numbers of the starting salary in the middle-to-large sized city in which I live ($230-280), I thought that $364K was a pretty decent number.
 
Upsides: no billing headaches or negotiating with payors, or any issues running a business. That is about it.


Downsides: These types of jobs are fine when there is a shortage of anesthesiologists, AND when you are young and mobile. BUT the first contract tends to be the best. If your compensation is at all based on the group making a "profit" the calculation will be done by their accountants who are less than completely objective. When the market for anesthesiologists turns sour these will be the first types of jobs where existing docs in practice will be pinched. The next contract renewal will be for less. When the group is functioning with say ten docs, and one retires the bean counters will decide "they don't really need 10 docs then can make do with nine, they can run 4 rooms instead of 3 or work post call, after all most other specialties work their post call day". Your salary and benefit package is looked at as a "cost to the company" anything they can do to lower that cost they will. I guarantee they will be doing the math on how many of the docs are mobile, i.e. middle aged with a big house to sell in a rural area, with wife and kids plugged into the schools and the community, how many docs will stay if they decide to cut the package by X% a few years from now, etc. Frequently the chief of the department is paid a significant stipend above the other docs. Thus his loyalty is more often to the hospital system than to the other docs in the group.

Some truth to this but some of it false as well. Basically this is a very brief generalization. As far as my practice goes at least. I am a hospital employee and I will remain one for some time unless they come up with a very large stipend which is a possibility. I am the chief of the dept and I receive a stipend but my loyalties are with my partners. If they are not happy then I am not happy. We are a very tight knit group with similar views, ideas, plans. Our employer is in a much better situation now than they were b/4 we arrived and they have a strong interest in keeping it this way. But things can change as they tend to do from time to time.
 
When She beats McCain we all will be working at th VA for 100K to 110K per year.

a) Hillary can't beat McCain. Maybe if he gets caught with a dead hooker, or if he kills a dozen federal agents with an illegal assault rifle while defending his meth lab.

b) Even the military pays anesthesiologists more than 110K/year ... quite a bit more, actually. I don't see any military salary cuts coming, ever, and I further suspect military physician pay will forever be on the low end of the national range. Even if someone inflicts socialized medicine upon us.
 
This brings up an interesting topic. From what I've been "told" (by our school's PD director), they're expecting a good job market through approximately 2014 or so. Now, granted, who the hell can predict that entirely, but assuming this is true, that's when I'd be getting out of residency.

The point is, while it may be a viable strategy to do locums etc. NOW, when the market tightens up on demand versus supply, might us "med student era" dudes be thinking more along the lines of JOINING a partnership for safety related concerns.

In other words, I remember MilMD and some others having posted about the early 90's (I think that's when it was) where there was a glut of anes docs and hard to secure any stability in the market. Few were hiring.

THUS, during a transition period where demand is leveling off, I could see some advantage in securing a partnership in order to secure employment in a potentially changing job market.

Thoughts? (other than, dude just get through rotations....lol)
 
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