Why is Psychiatry not part of the "ROAD" to happiness

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If you can't be comfortable asking about suicide and substance abuse in ANY speciality, you'd best not be entering direct patient care.
Sigh, I agree, however, we're discussing why students aren't considering Psych as part of the ROAD and I'm saying that after a 4 week rotation, most aren't comfortable enough addressing those topics to pursue Psych as a field.

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ROAD to me means great lifestyle and generally high pay.

There have been arguments other fields fit into ROAD like ENT and certainly that deserves merit. However some purists would suggest difficulty of training plays a role in which most surgical fields would be excluded.

However to address the specifics of this thread I believe there are three key issues which removes psychiatry from being a ROAD specialty.

1. Money - the other fields have decades long history of solid and consistent earning potential near the top of medicine. In many cases this is based on a high volume business model. Anesthesiologists can run several rooms, derm can see tons of patients who frequently self pay, ophtho does lots of small procedures and radiologists read a plethora of studies. This high volume model in the past has historically been very profitable and until years from now we won't know how diminished it will be. So while some fields of psych may fit this model they don't have a specialty wide history of success in this regard.

2. Patient Interaction (part of lifestyle) - while the interactions in the other ROAD fields are usually pleasant and jovial psych can certainly differ. Patients may be suicidal, unstable or even hostile due to their mental illness. Obviously this can be appealing to some and isn't necessarily a negative it just isn't in line with the other ROAD fields historically.

3. Patient Stress (another part of lifestyle) - most ROAD doctors don't take their work home with them nor do they have significant call. Psychiatrists have to always be available either themselves or their partners to their patients because of the nature if their illness. Psychiatrists in this way always carry the burden of their patients pathology with them.

I certainly don't mean to be arguing psych is a bad field, I just don't think it fits into the typical mold of a ROAD specialty. I am doing surgery and my field won't either, and I am still excited abut doing it as I am sure psych residents and attendings are excited about their field.
 
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I'm saying that after a 4 week rotation, most aren't comfortable enough addressing those topics to pursue Psych as a field.

Which is why we should be pushing for more psych rotations during medical school. #1 4 weeks is NOT long enough, but more importantly, most physicians are FAR more likely to encounter psychiatric pathology than most of the other things they make us do.

Do most docs really need 8 weeks of surgery? How about we trim that down and add some weeks to psych. Honestly, our 3 months of IM seemed like way too much to me. I'd rather see 2 months of IM, 1 month of surgery, 2 months of psych, and maybe an extra subspecialty elective thrown in for good measure. I don't think 3rd years get enough electives to try various interesting fields before applying.

I know every school does it differently, but all medical students should be receiving much more psych training...it will be VERY helpful regardless of what field they go into.

Don't even get me started about the lack of psych learning in the first 2 years :rolleyes:
 
Which is why we should be pushing for more psych rotations during medical school. #1 4 weeks is NOT long enough, but more importantly, most physicians are FAR more likely to encounter psychiatric pathology than most of the other things they make us do.

...

Don't even get me started about the lack of psych learning in the first 2 years :rolleyes:
This is more reflective of the particular medical school than it is of "the system." Many schools do pretty much exactly what you talk suggest.

Mine had 2 months of internal medicine and 2 months of psychiatry in third year. And there was plenty of time allocated to psychiatry in the pre-clinical years. This was likely due to the fact that we had a strong psychiatry department that took the time and effort to be very much a part of the med school curriculum.
 
i am going into psych and am all about it, but trimming down weeks in surgery or IM in order to do 2 months of psych and 2 months IM is just ridiculous. Theres 10x more to learn in IM than psych, and its the core of medicine. hell 4 weeks of psych would even be just enough.
 
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4 weeks isn't long enough for anything.
The first week you're clueless and the last week you're just thinking about the SHELF and how to find parking for your next rotation.
6 week minimum.
 
i am going into psych and am all about it, but trimming down weeks in surgery or IM in order to do 2 months of psych and 2 months IM is just ridiculous. Theres 10x more to learn in IM than psych, and its the core of medicine. hell 4 weeks of psych would even be just enough.

4 weeks, eh? You get a good cursory overview, but that's about it.
 
I remember as a student being uncomfortable asking about sexual orientation, sexual behaviors, domestic violence, etc. Even to the point sometimes of not asking when I should have. But this wasn't in psych. It was in our clinical interviewing class, in IM, in Family. I got over it with time and practice and now don't think twice about asking those questions. My initial discomfort never made me think about avoiding certain specialties. I guess what I'm saying is that discomfort is normal, understandable and goes away with time. The important thing then becomes discerning discomfort from dislike.
 
You can easily have a high volume model in psych. Ever heard of the 15 minute med visit?
 
ROAD to me means great lifestyle and generally high pay.

There have been arguments other fields fit into ROAD like ENT and certainly that deserves merit. However some purists would suggest difficulty of training plays a role in which most surgical fields would be excluded.

However to address the specifics of this thread I believe there are three key issues which removes psychiatry from being a ROAD specialty.

1. Money - the other fields have decades long history of solid and consistent earning potential near the top of medicine. In many cases this is based on a high volume business model. Anesthesiologists can run several rooms, derm can see tons of patients who frequently self pay, ophtho does lots of small procedures and radiologists read a plethora of studies. This high volume model in the past has historically been very profitable and until years from now we won't know how diminished it will be. So while some fields of psych may fit this model they don't have a specialty wide history of success in this regard.

2. Patient Interaction (part of lifestyle) - while the interactions in the other ROAD fields are usually pleasant and jovial psych can certainly differ. Patients may be suicidal, unstable or even hostile due to their mental illness. Obviously this can be appealing to some and isn't necessarily a negative it just isn't in line with the other ROAD fields historically.

3. Patient Stress (another part of lifestyle) - most ROAD doctors don't take their work home with them nor do they have significant call. Psychiatrists have to always be available either themselves or their partners to their patients because of the nature if their illness. Psychiatrists in this way always carry the burden of their patients pathology with them.

I certainly don't mean to be arguing psych is a bad field, I just don't think it fits into the typical mold of a ROAD specialty. I am doing surgery and my field won't either, and I am still excited abut doing it as I am sure psych residents and attendings are excited about their field.

You can easily have a high volume model in psych. Ever heard of the 15 minute med visit?
 
i am going into psych and am all about it, but trimming down weeks in surgery or IM in order to do 2 months of psych and 2 months IM is just ridiculous. Theres 10x more to learn in IM than psych, and its the core of medicine. hell 4 weeks of psych would even be just enough.

I think 4 weeks is a disservice to our profession and to patients. It's this lack of exposure that leads to a 2am consult for a crying cancer patient. Sorry, but any doc should be able to handle some simple psych issues, and and not come running to us with consults like, "patient acting crazy." Swear to god.

I just can't help but feel that if they'd had some more exposure to psych they could make an intelligent consult request.

Not to mention the fact that most antidepressants are rx'd by PCPs. You will deal with a HUGE variety of psychiatric issues in every field of medicine, and I think the lack of training is a disservice to our patients, our profession, and our society.

I'm certainly not saying that my "proposed" solution is the right one (I'm sure it's not), but you are FAR more likely to encounter the psychiatric issues in clinical practice than some other things we learn. IMO, we should spend much less time on zebra training and much more time on psych issues.
 
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I think 4 weeks is a disservice to our profession and to patients. It's this lack of exposure that leads to a 2am consult for a crying cancer patient. Sorry, but any doc should be able to handle some simple psych issues, and and not come running to us with consults like, "patient acting crazy." Swear to god.

My favorite consult is "Patient would like to speak with a psychiatrist". Me: "Why is that?". Them: "I don't know, I didn't ask".
 
Ugh, I'm on the consult team right now, and yeah, some of our consults are just plain ridiculous. The cancer one -- yeah, we've had at least two. Shouldn't all physicians be able to tell patients they have a serious diagnosis and recognize normal emotions that the news generates? Why do you have to consult psychiatry for that one? The sad thing is the consulting docs were from onc teams. Seriously?!

About med student rotations, I felt like I had a good one. We did six weeks -- 3 inpatient, 2 CL and 1 with an ACT team. The students here do 5 weeks either on an inpatient team somewhere or on the CL team. It seems weird to me to do one or the other but not both since they're fairly different.
 
Shouldn't all physicians be able to tell patients they have a serious diagnosis and recognize normal emotions that the news generates? Why do you have to consult psychiatry for that one? The sad thing is the consulting docs were from onc teams. Seriously?!

My doc had a great exchange with an attending yesterday on this exact topic.

Consult: Pt just found out a difficult diagnosis and now crying. Please advise.

Pt evaluated, found to be sad that they're dying, but not suicidal, etc. taking rather well, I thought, all things considered)

Psych attending calls doc who requested consult: "Yeah, so the patient seems to be exhibiting a normal response to her problem."

Medicine attending: But she's crying?!?

Psych: That's an expected emotional response in this circumstance. She's fine, we're signing off.

Medicine: :scared: What am I supposed to do about her crying?!?

Psych: Are you saying your uncomfortable dealing with a normal, human emotional response?

Medicine: I guess so... :smack:
 
My doc had a great exchange with an attending yesterday on this exact topic.

Consult: Pt just found out a difficult diagnosis and now crying. Please advise.

Pt evaluated, found to be sad that they're dying, but not suicidal, etc. taking rather well, I thought, all things considered)

Psych attending calls doc who requested consult: "Yeah, so the patient seems to be exhibiting a normal response to her problem."

Medicine attending: But she's crying?!?

Psych: That's an expected emotional response in this circumstance. She's fine, we're signing off.

Medicine: :scared: What am I supposed to do about her crying?!?

Psych: Are you saying your uncomfortable dealing with a normal, human emotional response?

Medicine: I guess so... :smack:

hahaha!
 
Maybe you should write out a behavioral plan. "When patient starts crying, offer kleenex."

Actually depending on the patient's religious/spiritual beliefs, a consult to the hospital chaplain might be more useful than us.
 
I remember as a student being uncomfortable asking about sexual orientation, sexual behaviors, domestic violence, etc. Even to the point sometimes of not asking when I should have. But this wasn't in psych. It was in our clinical interviewing class, in IM, in Family. I got over it with time and practice and now don't think twice about asking those questions. My initial discomfort never made me think about avoiding certain specialties. I guess what I'm saying is that discomfort is normal, understandable and goes away with time. The important thing then becomes discerning discomfort from dislike.

Yeah, I think this is all related to context. I think I will find it more socially awkward to ask about something like domestic violence in a family practice type setting than I would in a psych setting. People come to psychiatrists expecting to talk about really personal stuff so it would seem somewhat natural to me in that context, but it might seem more awkward in a different specialty where they might not be expecting the questions.
 
The thing is, that in a way we may be thinking about the time period of the rotation in the wrong way... selling psychiatry short. Isn't it better if people who are "uncomfortable" with feelings and difficult situations get weeded out during medical school, and don't choose psychiatry? Isn't that better for patients in the end? I think that the majority of people who choose this field actually have some sort of natural facility with feelings... they were "that person" who their friends confided in when they were down. I think that there is enough time in a 4 week rotation to know whether you are comfortable with these things or not. Of course, no one will feel totally comfortable with a violent or threatening patient, but that's really not the question, is it? It's about whether you can be a good listener and think about people's behavior in a thoughtful way. :) More advanced levels of comfort with difficult patient situations will come in the course of training.
 
Psychiatry is the best specialty of them all! I'm biased of course.

ROAD means low stress work with the highest pay (which is foolish if you believe that). Were psychiatry to pay $400K on average, it would become part of the 'road' designation (maybe 'ROAD P' haha). Funny thing though, in psychiatry you can work 9 to 5 and have time to do things on the side like run a small business or give talks or publish books that could double your income. It's flexible like that.

Actually, according to the Medscape poll, the real ROAD to happiness specialties are:
#1 Derm, #2 Psych, #3 EM, and #4 HIV/ID

= E PhD
 
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Psychiatry is the best specialty of them all! I'm biased of course.

ROAD means low stress work with the highest pay (which is foolish if you believe that). Were psychiatry to pay $400K on average, it would become part of the 'road' designation (maybe 'ROAD P' haha). Funny thing though, in psychiatry you can work 9 to 5 and have time to do things on the side like run a small business or give talks or publish books that could double your income. It's flexible like that.

Actually, according to the Medscape poll, the real ROAD to happiness specialties are:
#1 Derm, #2 Psych, #3 EM, and #4 HIV/ID

= E PhD

Hmm...ROAD-P? What about ENT? Everyone forgets ENT...

PARED? RAPED? DRAPE?

I honestly think the whole ROAD thing is a load of crap. The best specialty is the best one for YOU. I know I'd be MISERABLE in Derm, as no amount of money would make me enjoy it.
 
I know that radiology is supposed to take a big pay cut in the future and some of the other procedure-based fields (ophtho, ortho, cards) are set to take a hit in reimbursements as well. On the other hand, I've heard that primary care specialities are supposed to stay about the same or even get a bump up in pay. What are you all expecting for psych?
 
I think I would have liked derm. Rashes are pretty cool. Not all the cosmetic stuff, though. That would have gotten old. Still, I never seriously considered it because I didn't have the scores.
 
Hmm...ROAD-P? What about ENT? Everyone forgets ENT...

PARED? RAPED? DRAPE?

I honestly think the whole ROAD thing is a load of crap. The best specialty is the best one for YOU. I know I'd be MISERABLE in Derm, as no amount of money would make me enjoy it.

ROAD-P becomes PRADO - because you'll all be dancing around like listening to Perez Prado!

[YOUTUBE]qOuRWkLP-dA[/YOUTUBE]
 
I know that radiology is supposed to take a big pay cut in the future and some of the other procedure-based fields (ophtho, ortho, cards) are set to take a hit in reimbursements as well. On the other hand, I've heard that primary care specialities are supposed to stay about the same or even get a bump up in pay. What are you all expecting for psych?

I've talked about this before, but psychiatry is only going up. Here is the world as I see it:

1. Feds have a huge budget crisis looming. Huge. They can't afford to keep paying the rates they're paying for hip replacements, CT scans, primary care ER visits, etc. Unnecessary medicine must be cut to save money.

2. Around half of all ER visits are primary care, non-emergent complaints. To save money, sometime in the next 10-20 years, EMTALA will be scraped and replaced with something that allows triage of complaints. The need for ER docs will be sliced in half overnight. Job market will get tighter for them, pay might drop a bit. Won't be too bad, but ER is the youngest and fastest growing specialty. They're producing much too fast and not retiring fast enough. We will one day have an oversupply of ER docs, which will eventually impact salary, especially if budget cutting needs to happen.

3. Anesthesia will suffer much the same fate. CRNA's and midlevels will have an expanded role, with anesthesiologists supervising more mid-levels. It's cheaper and the budget crisis will demand this. Budgets will be cut and in an effort to save money and maximize profit, hospitals will start using the cheaper help. Same end effect as ER. Drop in salary, oversupply. Also a young, fast-growing field.

4. The extra ER and Gas docs will now decide to do fellowships to make themselves more marketable in the job market. Most will want to do Critical Care, which will suddenly become Rads-like competitive to get into, but salaries will likely stay the same...until "death panels" happen, and end-of-life interventions are decreased, which MUST happen in a budget crunch.

5. Radiology will face pay cuts, but what will really hurt them more is the anti-radiation backlash as more research comes out showing the harm in repeated scanning. Malpractice reform (which must also happen to save money) will cut the number of scans being done = slight decrease in demand for radiologists. If you talk to the rads guys, there is already starting to be something of an oversupply of radiologists. Again, a few years ago there was this terrible shortage, they increased the number of spots, and now there's not a shortage. Same thing happened in dental hygiene.

6. Derm will be fine forever. They have done an excellent job of artificially limiting the supply of dermatologists, although more and more PCP-types are getting into their business...

7. Psych will be fine, and could very well go way up. Horrible shortage, especially of child psych will mean we can charge whatever we want. We won't price gouge people too much because we're nice that way, but insurance companies are another story. >55% of practicing psychiatrists are >55yo and ready to retire. That makes the shortage worse. Psych is one of the slowest growing fields. A large percentage of the new docs we're training are FMG's and a percentage of them will return to their home countries at some point. A large percentage (>50%) are women, and are, statistically speaking, more likely to work part-time. All of these things mean that it will be even harder to find a working psychiatrist, and MUCH harder to find one who is actually good. It won't do wonders for the reputation of our specialty, but as salaries rise, psych will become much more popular suddenly (which is exactly what happened to radiology and anesthesia), we'll increase the number of training spots (much to our detriment) and then we'll have our crash in 30-40 years, right as I'm retiring. All in all, good timing for me, I think.

The alternative to all this happening is that there could be no budgetary crisis. In which case, most of the fields I mentioned will probably be fine. Psych would still go up, since our situation is more dependent on the short supply and our unwillingness overall to rely on insurance payment. i don't see anyway that this won't happen. We are way overdue for a serious government budgetary crisis, which we only got a taste of when they were going to cut our credit rating. When the real crisis comes it will be much worse, and it's going to be time for some hard political decisions. The OTHER alternative is that we won't make any of these decisions, continue our current spending habits, and bankrupt our country...leading to a GreatER Depression.

This is just my crystal ball. I could very well be wrong. Regarding psych especially though, I doubt I am. Salaries have already been rising recently, and the trend is only likely to continue due to the undebatable extreme undersupply. Whatever we do though, we should NOT increase the number of psychiatrists being trained. A glut in the market would kill us.
 
Whatever we do though, we should NOT increase the number of psychiatrists being trained. A glut in the market would kill us.

That's a terrible reason. There is a much better reason for not increase the number being trained - there is not enough interest. psychiatry is already uncompetitive. if the number of residency spots were significantly expanded they would have to be filled by those who probably should not be practicing (i.e. couldn't get into anything else, not really interested in psych, poor english etc)
 
Sorry, I meant if interest increased, we still shouldn't expand slots much. It's a fine line. Expand too much and you get a glut and a tough job market and a poor bargaining position at the table with insurance companies. Expand too little and you open the door to mid levels and other providers trying to steal your work...
 
Sorry, I meant if interest increased, we still shouldn't expand slots much. It's a fine line. Expand too much and you get a glut and a tough job market and a poor bargaining position at the table with insurance companies. Expand too little and you open the door to mid levels and other providers trying to steal your work...

Agreed. As someone entering the game middle aged with high end debt load. I have no qualms about maintaining a workforce size that sustains the levels of income to pay it back in a reasonable amount of decades.

I'm not doing all this to get back in the line of waiting to picked up for pennies by the bossmen of health care.

Access to psychiatric care is serious counter balancing component of the overall equation. But that gets easier to talk about on the other side of this debt **** tunnel.

I'm glad to hear this field is in demand and not in oversupply.
 
2. Around half of all ER visits are primary care, non-emergent complaints. To save money, sometime in the next 10-20 years, EMTALA will be scraped and replaced with something that allows triage of complaints. The need for ER docs will be sliced in half overnight. Job market will get tighter for them, pay might drop a bit. Won't be too bad, but ER is the youngest and fastest growing specialty. They're producing much too fast and not retiring fast enough. We will one day have an oversupply of ER docs, which will eventually impact salary, especially if budget cutting needs to happen.

As to the bolded, you are remarkably uninformed and off the mark. You're not even looking in the right direction. (This isn't opinion, but objective numbers at least from my end.)
 
I have seen alot of patients who have no idea what the diference is bdetween and MD psychiatrist (MDP :) and APNP. They actually like the APNP much more than me bc she gives them the medications they want (stimulants, benzos) and sees patients much less often than I am comfortable with (once yearly in some cases) without any regard for malpractice. I have so much more to lose that I am careful to follow guidelines and give patients reasonable doses and see patients at regular intervals.

APNP's could wipe us out, they make less than half of what we make.

:barf:
 
As to the bolded, you are remarkably uninformed and off the mark. You're not even looking in the right direction. (This isn't opinion, but objective numbers at least from my end.)

The numbers I've seen are all assuming the demand remains static or increases. I'm predicting a DECREASE in demand (and a dramatic one).

Now, if that never happens, then you're right, we don't have enough ER docs, but looking at the economic situation in our country and the world, I don't see how we can continue without dramatic cost cutting, and unnecessary ER visits is a huge target.

But, if the demand for ER services falls by 50% or so, I don't see how we won't have some extra docs sitting around looking for jobs, at least in populated areas. Rural places will likely always have shortages.
 
The numbers I've seen are all assuming the demand remains static or increases. I'm predicting a DECREASE in demand (and a dramatic one).

Now, if that never happens, then you're right, we don't have enough ER docs, but looking at the economic situation in our country and the world, I don't see how we can continue without dramatic cost cutting, and unnecessary ER visits is a huge target.

But, if the demand for ER services falls by 50% or so, I don't see how we won't have some extra docs sitting around looking for jobs, at least in populated areas. Rural places will likely always have shortages.

From 4 or 5 years ago, there were 114 million ED visits in the US in a year. I'm guessing about 120 million per year now. I don't see any way at all that the numbers will drop to 50 or 60 million visits per year. No way, no how, just ain't gonna happen ever. Well, unless something kills off 150 or 200 million Americans.
 
From 4 or 5 years ago, there were 114 million ED visits in the US in a year. I'm guessing about 120 million per year now. I don't see any way at all that the numbers will drop to 50 or 60 million visits per year. No way, no how, just ain't gonna happen ever. Well, unless something kills off 150 or 200 million Americans.

Right. I promise, the visits will drop if/when these non-emergent primary care ER visits are prohibited. The politicians are already talking about this as a huge cost cutting measure.

Depending on who you believe, 25-50% of ER visits are primary care visits. I think it's on the higher side, personally.

Again, I could be very wrong about my crystal ball prediction of the future economic climate. Maybe they'll cut something else like the defense budget. Ha. Ha. :/
 
Why is Psychiatry not part of the "ROAD" to happiness
My opinion: While the opportunity for a benign work schedule is certainly there with psych, the earning potential typical to that reduced workload is less than other specialties.

Also, there is the issue of prestige...interestingly, derm was not nearly as "prestigious" a few decades ago as it is today. So, who knows, maybe in a decade or two psych will flip around as well.

Real "road", IMO, is modified "road p":

RadOnc
Ophtha
Allergy
Derm

Psych
 
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As much as people talk about the low salary, I don't buy that. 200k for a 35-40 hour week is still very tempting and I would think a lot of IMers would die for something like that if it wasn't psych.

I think stigma has a lot to do with it. Physicans tend to be taken by prestige and psychiatry is still seen as the shoddy speciality out there. That, and it requires a very unique and different skillset than the rest.
 
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This brings up a good point. I think to some extent the medical specialty chooses you. Psychiatry has a unique skill set. Any medical student can't just walk into it and expect to excel. Personally, being trapped in an operating room for hours on end was like being in jail. Others love it. And for others, they may not have the personality and communication skills to wrap their heads around psych patients.

I agree that $200K is very impressive when considering the fewer hours and lower stress. Consider what making $200K in the business world entails. Just to take a random example, a Walmart head manager can make this much, but logs in 70 - 80 hrs/wk, competes among 10,000 other employees for the job, has tremendous sales and performance pressures from bosses, has prior experience in retail, has a business degree, and must successfully manage hundreds of staff and globs of inventory under lots of stress. Then there's the issue of getting fired. Job security comes and goes. There's always the next guy.

At the end of the day, restoring mental health to people and thus their lives in a comfortable working pace for $200K or $300K is having the best of both worlds so to speak. Why do med students fail to see the whole picture?
 
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7. Psych will be fine, and could very well go way up. Horrible shortage, especially of child psych will mean we can charge whatever we want. We won't price gouge people too much because we're nice that way, but insurance companies are another story. >55% of practicing psychiatrists are >55yo and ready to retire. That makes the shortage worse. Psych is one of the slowest growing fields. A large percentage of the new docs we're training are FMG's and a percentage of them will return to their home countries at some point. A large percentage (>50%) are women, and are, statistically speaking, more likely to work part-time. All of these things mean that it will be even harder to find a working psychiatrist, and MUCH harder to find one who is actually good. It won't do wonders for the reputation of our specialty, but as salaries rise, psych will become much more popular suddenly (which is exactly what happened to radiology and anesthesia), we'll increase the number of training spots (much to our detriment) and then we'll have our crash in 30-40 years, right as I'm retiring. All in all, good timing for me, I think.

Is psych particularly immune from reimbursement cuts because it's not a procedure-based field? It seems you are looking at things from a strictly supply and demand point of view when it seems to me that the government can cut whatever they want, whenever they want. Has there been any talk about Medicare reducing/increasing reimbursement for psych visits?
 
Is psych particularly immune from reimbursement cuts because it's not a procedure-based field? It seems you are looking at things from a strictly supply and demand point of view when it seems to me that the government can cut whatever they want, whenever they want. Has there been any talk about Medicare reducing/increasing reimbursement for psych visits?

Only thing that is immune is cash-only practices.

Medicare is likely heading only one direction across specialties...hint: it ain't up. ;)

Most recent data (Medscape survey) shows a 5k decrease in average psych comp since last year... Yet it is only one survey.
 
Only thing that is immune is cash-only practices.

Medicare is likely heading only one direction across specialties...hint: it ain't up. ;)

Most recent data (Medscape survey) shows a 5k decrease in average psych comp since last year... Yet it is only one survey.

If you look closer at the med scape data, it seems that the decrease in salary largely stems from a decrease in work hours. 36% of psychiatrists spend less than 30h/wk with patients (up from 30% last time). This is likely due to the factors I mentioned, namely aging doctors cutting back.

There are many, many things pulling down our average salary. A large concentration of psychiatrists in the Northeast, the lowest paid region. A large percentage of female psychiatrists, who earn less then their male counterparts, although only 40% in this survey. Around 75% of psychiatrists spending less than 40h/wk seeing patients. Around 80% see less than 75 patients per week. 25% see less than 25pt/wk. This is up from 17%. Around 1/3 of those surveyed were < 45yo. Finally, 21% were earning less than 100k. This is drastically pulling down our average. If you ignore those outliers, the next most common category is the 200-250 range. There are around 34% earning over 200k. Not bad for a survey group whose mean hours/week is in the 30's.

Put all this together, and it tells me that if you're willing to work 40-50 patient hours per week, and see patients at a decent clip (3/hr x 8h/day x 5d/wk = 120/wk), and not in NYC, you too could make bank, if that's what you want.

What I want to know is who are these guys seeing > 200 patients a week?!?
 
This brings to mind the psychiatrist whom I worked with at the VA. She was outstanding. And her hours were short: 8am and gone by 1pm. Mon - Fri.
 
This brings to mind the psychiatrist whom I worked with at the VA. She was outstanding. And her hours were short: 8am and gone by 1pm. Mon - Fri.

ohsnap.gif
 
True. I thought most of us were drawn to medicine because we liked patient interaction. There are all those basic science students out there complaining about how they don't get to see patients yet. It seems like there's wrong either with medical school admissions or with medical school training if not seeing patients is a desired thing for most medical students.

Yeah, those damn radiologists and pathologists. What a waste of medical education. :laugh:
:rolleyes:

This isn't the admissions process anymore. We actually make decisions on what we want to do, not based on the premed "patient contact" that ADCOMs obsess about. Not everyone wants to go into direct patient contact. Some people want to be significantly involved in important areas in patient care without directly interacting with patients. Others want to go into research, academic medicine, teaching.
 
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We actually make decisions on what we want to do, not based on the premed "patient contact" that ADCOMs obsess about. Not everyone wants to go into direct patient contact. Some people want to be significantly involved in important areas in patient care without directly interacting with patients. Others want to go into research, academic medicine, teaching.
Agreed. I'd much rather have a competent, happy radiologists on staff than a disgruntled family practitioner that went that path because someone convinced him laying hands on patients is more important to their care than what the specialists do.

Psychiatrists are the last folks that should be playing the "won't you miss being a real doctor" card, as it's something many will have to explain themselves.
 
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