- Joined
- Jan 12, 2012
- Messages
- 2,418
- Reaction score
- 957
My friend attended SGU
What was s/he shooting for? Genuinely curious.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My friend attended SGU
He just pre-matched to pathology
Um, ahem... speaking of exeptions.... nice Ullman exception, Chris Griffin.
http://www.flayme.com/flame/04-psychology.shtml#Spelling
And, maybe he was "excepted", in that he would have gone MD except he couldn't get in? Ever thought of that?
-Skip
He just pre-matched to pathology
Is it true that in the future they are getting rid of being able to pre-match?
A program has the choice to either be all in or pre-match there applicantsIs it true that in the future they are getting rid of being able to pre-match?
I think this "all in" stuff is the most confusing part of the whole new NRMP scheme. There are so many ways for programs to circumvent this, and they still do (aProgDirector probably can clarify this and/or knows people who've done exactly what I describe). If you read the fine print carefully, they can still offer pre-match spots up to the cut-off date of registering their spots in the Match (which I think is mid-February). So, if you are offered a pre-match spot before mid-February, you don't have to "list" that spot in the Match and you are still complying with the "all in" requirements.
Likewise, there could be a way that the program could offer a "dual track" for a given specialty, say Family Practice, where some spots are "Match spots" and others are never going to be in the Match. So, the ones declared to be in the NRMP will be considered qualified for complying the "all in" policy.
I don't think this new policy/scheme is as black and white as you guys think its is. And, I don't really think it's 100% enforceable. What're the "teeth" to it? There aren't any as far as I can see.
-Skip
If a program is "all in", in order to take a PGY-1 off cycle and not match them they need to start training by Feb 1.
Therefore, you can have January graduates of Carib schools (for example, like Ross offers) get into and start your program in January, and you would not have to list that spot in the Match - totally outside the Match. If I were the owner and administrator of a Carib school, this would be a potential selling point for my program.
Likewise, I still am not sure how a "dual track" could be found out by the ACGME/NRMP, especially if those are unfunded spots. It is ironic that the NRMP wants to whip this pony in the name of fairness. Most programs that offer pre-match spots historically cannot and have not been able to fill through the Match, none of the U.S. graduates want 'em, and/or the programs do not have the time and resources to afford towards recruiting.
Is there any disadvantage for Caribbean grads not applying to the match as a 4th year student? Would it be advantageous to apply the year after graduation, spending time doing research/observerships at programs they are interested in?
Any program that wanted to subvert the system probably can. For example, instead of starting my pre-matches before Feb 1, I'd start them July 15th. As far as I can tell, there's nothing that stops me from doing that -- although I am having difficulty finding an official "all in" policy on the NRMP website (there's an All In page, but it's very vague). The NRMP can threaten action against a program if found to be violating, but it's hard to prove unless the program is doing so on a large scale.
The more I work in healthcare, the more I realize how many bad decisions are made by distant committees sitting in offices that often have nothing to do with what goes on at the actual front lines.
Sorry to quote myself...
And, most people in healthcare lack the "testicular fortitude" to challenge nonsense when they run into it.
-Skip
Considering how much things will change over the next few years, I'd advise against the Caribbean.
I believe they call them TrollsWhat's up with all the "drive-bys" lately? (haha)
-Skip
What's up with all the "drive-bys" lately? (haha)
-Skip
I'm a Caribbean student but do feel things are changing to an extent that attending school off-shore may be too risky in the future.
I have been posting more lately. Step 2 stuff is fun but I need an occasional break.
Can you elaborate more on how things are changing?
Is there any disadvantage for Caribbean grads not applying to the match as a 4th year student? Would it be advantageous to apply the year after graduation, spending time doing research/observerships at programs they are interested in?
These are not doom and gloom numbers, but their are not great either if you ask me. I thought the BIG 4 had a match rate of 80%+... Maybe some of their student pre-match (I don't know why it is so low). The match rate for Mexico (most of these students are probably from UAG) is quiet low for a school that is well established. All in all, if someone plan to go to these schools, you better plan to kill the board (240+) and/or plan to match into a primary care specialty.http://b83c73bcf0e7ca356c80-e8560f4...s-in-the-Match-IMG_Final_Revised.PDF-File.pdf
Latest match data from the ECFMG is out. Looks like SGU wins again, with 689 of 1050 (65.6%) match participants matching. Their USIMGs performed better overall though, with 534 of 792 (67.4%) matching. Can't really say with Ross, as there are two med schools on Dominica- the numbers for the island as a whole don't look good though. Given that the majority of students that are on Dominica are Ross students, I'd venture to say that the majority of the 1,100 students there belong to Ross, 595 of which matched. AUC in St. Marteen fared quite well, with 180 of 300 matching (60%).
Figure, if anyone decides the Carib is worth it, they might as well take a look at what schools offer them the best shot at matching. SGU and AUC seem to be the way to go, with Ross after that, and most of the world left in the dust. A notable exception is Israel, with a 75.6% match rate for their 119 total grads that applied (probably mostly or all from Sackler). Outside of SGU, Ross, AUC, and Sackler, the only place from which USIMGs cleared a 50% match rate was Mexico. Basically, if you're going abroad, these are the places to go.
Do you think some of the USIMG from the islands pre-match Skip? Why is the match rate that low for the BIG 4?What's up with all the "drive-bys" lately? (haha)
-Skip
Do you think some of the USIMG from the islands pre-match Skip? Why the is the match rate is that low for the BIG 4?
Do you think some of the USIMG from the islands pre-match Skip? Why the is the match rate is that low for the BIG 4?
Got it! I did not know the report was for applicants who matched into specialty they ranked #1... If we account for back up and prematch, I think the big 4 might have 80%+ overall match rate, which I think is pretty good...Guys, again, read the report. This match rate is based on those who matched into the specialty they ranked #1 on their match list. Thus, if you matched into a "back-up" specialty, you are not included as "matching" in this report. That lowers the overall Match rate as reported here. You can argue the nuances of whether this was right or wrong of them to do, but the bottom line is that this lowers the overall match rate for each country.
As to pre-match, yes, some of the USIMGs from the island pre-match. I personally know about 7 students in this Match who have done so this month, and I'm sure there are more (this is just from my school, AUC). The best places to pre-match will of course be if you rotate at a hospital which is all-out, and it's possible to find yourself in this position.
This year was a very competitive year for interviews. From what I am hearing on the trail, a lot of AMGs are applying to more places, which I think is a knee jerk reaction to a match rate around 93% last year for AMGs (which I believe is the same as it was in 2011 or 2010). So, with all those AMGs grabbing interviews, it was tough for IMGs to get interview spots. Personally, I feel that this will help applicants who were good enough to get interview spots. This means that most likely (let's say for IM) programs will fall farther down their rank lists than is usual (maybe 100-200 more AMGs will match into IM this yr than last year......for something like >300 programs), which is a positive for the IMG who got the interview. You now have a pretty good shot if you were competitive enough. Perhaps someone else has a different opinion? But with a university program of about 30, the average is around 6 spots per rank, meaning you would go down your ROL 180 spots to fill your program. I think that may stretch a tad this year.
In the end, it's the same old story. Try to go US MD or DO. If not possible, then go Carib and I would suggest only the well-known schools at this point. I think that the residency issue won't last forever as the AOA position with the ACGME becomes more untenable, and there will be outside pressure to increase spots sometime in the next five years due to an aging baby boomer population. Unfortunately, that means graduating within the next 4-5 years will be difficult for residency matches.
Fixed...I think the Caribbean can be an alternative after one has tried admission to US MD/DO schools more than 2 times.
Depends on personal things too. Personally I would try podiatry before Caribbean. At this point the chances of getting a residency are similar, at least it's cheaper tho.Fixed...
I somewhat agree with you. I would try pharmacy or PA before going to a Carib school, but some people can only see themselves as physicians MD/DO... However, I think people should try US MD/DO at least three times before going Carib if they are <30 years old... I have friend who called me yesterday and asked me what he should do because he did not match again after going thru the match three times and I really did not know what to tell him... The only thing I thought about was the 3-year ARNP program at FIU for IMG, but I was afraid to tell him that because he might not receive kindly such advice... I REALLY felt bad!Depends on personal things too. Personally I would try podiatry before Caribbean. At this point the chances of getting a residency are similar, at least it's cheaper tho.
Agreed.I somewhat agree with you. I would try pharmacy or PA before going to a Carib school, but some people can only see themselves as physicians MD/DO... However, I think people should try US MD/DO at least three times before going Carib if they are <30 years old... I have friend who called me yesterday and asked me what he should do because he did not match again after going thru the match three times and I really did not know what to tell him... The only thing I thought about was the 3-year ARNP program at FIU for IMG, but I was afraid to tell him that because he might not receive kindly such advice... I REALLY felt bad!
NO... He is (or has been) shooting for FM... He told me he barely passed Step1 (second attempt). He did well in Step2/3 (first attempt). I think he should give up because I heard after three years of not matching, your chances to match are almost impossible..Agreed.
Is your friend shooting for anything competitive? Is his step good?
Yea failing Step 1 is not good. Idk what he should do. Is he American?NO... He is (or has been) shooting for FM... He told me he barely passed Step1 (second attempt). He did well in Step2/3 (first attempt). I think he should give up because I heard after three years of not matching, your chances to match are almost impossible..
He is a US citizen...Yea failing Step 1 is not good. Idk what he should do. Is he American?
Depends on personal things too. Personally I would try podiatry before Caribbean. At this point the chances of getting a residency are similar, at least it's cheaper tho.
I think PA might be the best next option, but PA schools are expanding rapidly these days. I wonder what the job prospect for PA will be in the next 10 years...Yeah, if you want to stare at feet for the rest of your life.
Personally, I would try to exhaust all options at getting into a U.S. school, including several of the newly (or soon-to-be) opened allopathic programs, as well as taking advantage of the increased number of spots at the existing schools.
-Skip
They'll say you won't get a residency and will die alone after a long career at Family Video and $500,000 of debt you can't pay off
But the ones saying this barely qualify to be called premed, so don't put too much weight on it
Pretty sure it's a hell of a lot more than just pre-meds saything that going Caribbean is a bad idea.
Because if you can't get into a US MD or DO program, then it's probably for a pretty good reason that you should fix.
Good analogy, SGU has put more doctors into US residency in the last 3 yrs then any other school in the world
Because they accept basically anyone with a pulse. If your incoming class is three times larger than any US school and you're not putting more students into US residencies there is a massive problem