Why is the Caribbean is a GOOD decision?

[Skip Intro]

Nice to see a lot more activity on this forum lately. In lieu of the "do I have a chance?" threads and the Caribbean bashing, I thought I'd post a list of why you might consider a Caribbean medical education and what are the benefits.

1. Some of you will exhaust all options of becoming a doctor via one of the "traditional" pathways. Most of you will come to this decision because you have determined that you will not be happy unless and until you become a doctor. Do not go into this decision lightly. There are probably reasons why you haven't succeeded in securing an admission to medical school. If it was immaturity or early bad grades because you were still a kid, that's one thing. If you have a serious inability to master information in a short time frame, recognize that it is going to come at you faster and harder than ever in medical school. This is true no matter where you attend. The Caribbean has a high attrition rate for a reason. But, the established and credible schools can deliver to you your dream if you are willing to work harder than you ever have and stay the course.
2. Some of the schools have a long track record of placing graduates into residency and subsequently into practice. Know which schools these are, research them yourselves, and have reasonable expectations before you go. You will not likely place into an ultra-competitive residency coming out of the Caribbean. Heck, even U.S. grads compete for these spots. You will likely wind up in some form of primary care. If this is already your dream, there's a good chance you can succeed if you stay the course (see item 1). But, some of the moderately competitive specialties do accept Carib graduates. Be reasonable. Be realistic. And work hard.
3. Recognize the massive debt you will be in before you go. Many of these schools are prohibitively expensive without loans or other means of financing your education. Look at ways to defray these costs. And, start with the idea that failure is not an option. However, if you get behind the eight ball early, you might want to consider cutting your losses before you amass a large amount of debt that will be difficult to pay off down the road. I am a success story. I graduated from Ross 9 years ago. It has only gotten more expensive to attend in that time, and I still have almost $1000/month in loans I'm paying off... and will be for the next 21 years!
4. Part and parcel to item 3, if you are over the age of 30, consider what you're likely to make when you're practicing and how much debt you will have. Unfortunately, there is a real financial burden that you will not be able to escape. It depends on what you want to provide to your family and children. There are CRNAs in my field, for instance, who make more than pediatricians. This is the reality of the situation.
5. Exhaust all options before choosing this route. Consider re-applying to U.S. schools. Work on your application. Maybe P.A. school is right for you? There are many things to consider before moving to what amounts to an isolated place away from family and friends for an extended period of time to pursue a dream that may prove to be just a pipe dream. Becoming a physician changes you... changes the way you think... changes how you view the world and people. You won't know this until you live it. But, the dream of becoming a doctor should be grounded in the reality of what it means to be a doctor. Shadow some physicians locally. Ask their opinions. Tell them that you are considering going to the Caribbean. See what they say. And, find a Caribbean-trained doctor to talk to as well. All will tell you that it is a difficult journey, and you should try to digest and understand this before you go.

For some of us, it works out amazingly well. What's the percentage? Hard to tell. I know several of the graduates from my class that have prestigious appointments at U.S. medical schools right now. I know others who are struggling. Even others have failed out. It is all up to you. The Caribbean schools provide a pathway. They're not going to coddle you or hold your hand. There is a large part of the success of the individuals who do well that is self-determined. Many of them could've gone to school in the U.S. and done equally well. For whatever reason, they didn't get their chance. Others get weeded out. This is the reality.

But, being where I am now, would I have done it all over again? Yes! Does that mean that I didn't make a few mistakes along the way? Of course not. Life would be easier for all of us if we had a "do-over" once in a while. Unfortunately, this is not the case for the majority of us who live in the real world.

So, bottom line, know what you are getting into before you go (or, at least, as much as you can). Make the right choices. Work hard. And, you too can be one of the success stories.

To people who say it's a bad choice because there won't be positions for those graduates in a few years.... time will tell. But, for now, you can go and succeed. It's up to you. After you exhaust all other options first.

-Skip
Board-Certified
Private Practice
Making a Nice Living

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[Top Gun]

Nice to see a lot more activity on this forum lately. In lieu of the "do I have a chance?" threads and the Caribbean bashing, I thought I'd post a list of why you might consider a Caribbean medical education and what are the benefits.

1. Some of you will exhaust all options of becoming a doctor via one of the "traditional" pathways. Most of you will come to this decision because you have determined that you will not be happy unless and until you become a doctor. Do not go into this decision lightly. There are probably reasons why you haven't succeeded in securing an admission to medical school. If it was immaturity or early bad grades because you were still a kid, that's one thing. If you have a serious inability to master information in a short time frame, recognize that it is going to come at you faster and harder than ever in medical school. This is true no matter where you attend. The Caribbean has a high attrition rate for a reason. But, the established and credible schools can deliver to you your dream if you are willing to work harder than you ever have and stay the course.
2. Some of the schools have a long track record of placing graduates into residency and subsequently into practice. Know which schools these are, research them yourselves, and have reasonable expectations before you go. You will not likely place into an ultra-competitive residency coming out of the Caribbean. Heck, even U.S. grads compete for these spots. You will likely wind up in some form of primary care. If this is already your dream, there's a good chance you can succeed if you stay the course (see item 1). But, some of the moderately competitive specialties do accept Carib graduates. Be reasonable. Be realistic. And work hard.
3. Recognize the massive debt you will be in before you go. Many of these schools are prohibitively expensive without loans or other means of financing your education. Look at ways to defray these costs. And, start with the idea that failure is not an option. However, if you get behind the eight ball early, you might want to consider cutting your losses before you amass a large amount of debt that will be difficult to pay off down the road. I am a success story. I graduated from Ross 9 years ago. It has only gotten more expensive to attend in that time, and I still have almost $1000/month in loans I'm paying off... and will be for the next 21 years!
4. Part and parcel to item 3, if you are over the age of 30, consider what you're likely to make when you're practicing and how much debt you will have. Unfortunately, there is a real financial burden that you will not be able to escape. It depends on what you want to provide to your family and children. There are CRNAs in my field, for instance, who make more than pediatricians. This is the reality of the situation.
5. Exhaust all options before choosing this route. Consider re-applying to U.S. schools. Work on your application. Maybe P.A. school is right for you? There are many things to consider before moving to what amounts to an isolated place away from family and friends for an extended period of time to pursue a dream that may prove to be just a pipe dream. Becoming a physician changes you... changes the way you think... changes how you view the world and people. You won't know this until you live it. But, the dream of becoming a doctor should be grounded in the reality of what it means to be a doctor. Shadow some physicians locally. Ask their opinions. Tell them that you are considering going to the Caribbean. See what they say. And, find a Caribbean-trained doctor to talk to as well. All will tell you that it is a difficult journey, and you should try to digest and understand this before you go.

For some of us, it works out amazingly well. What's the percentage? Hard to tell. I know several of the graduates from my class that have prestigious appointments at U.S. medical schools right now. I know others who are struggling. Even others have failed out. It is all up to you. The Caribbean schools provide a pathway. They're not going to coddle you or hold your hand. There is a large part of the success of the individuals who do well that is self-determined. Many of them could've gone to school in the U.S. and done equally well. For whatever reason, they didn't get their chance. Others get weeded out. This is the reality.

But, being where I am now, would I have done it all over again? Yes! Does that mean that I didn't make a few mistakes along the way? Of course not. Life would be easier for all of us if we had a "do-over" once in a while. Unfortunately, this is not the case for the majority of us who live in the real world.

So, bottom line, know what you are getting into before you go (or, at least, as much as you can). Make the right choices. Work hard. And, you too can be one of the success stories.

To people who say it's a bad choice because there won't be positions for those graduates in a few years.... time will tell. But, for now, you can go and succeed. It's up to you. After you exhaust all other options first.

-Skip
Board-Certified
Private Practice
Making a Nice Living

This I might add, do everything you can to get a spot in a US school first, MD or DO. If you've tried twice, including repeating the MCAT, doing a post-bac or more upper-level science courses, added on more clinical experience, etc..., then the big 4 is a decent option if you're willing to work hard. If you do work hard and succeed, you won't be necessarily limited to primary care, even though you probably won't get anything ultra-competitive either. I have classmates who went into emergency medicine, general surgery, Ob/Gyn, anesthesiology, and one of them even got into ophtho.

 

[drcrispmd]

Well said!

I am also a Carib Grad. I have friends in ortho, derm, optho, rads, anesthesia, IM, peds, surgery, plastics, neonatology, FM, path, etc.

It should not be your first choice. Only consider the top 4.

I felt my rotations were good. My school required all rotations be greenbook (with a residency in that field). I also rotated with US MD and DO students.

However, the horror to think there are Caribbean grads who are actually faculty at some schools and residencies teaching US MD students! I mean since we are not equal and have subpar training, how could they ever teach US students. (For those who could not pick up on this, I am being sarcastic).

If you are going to seek advice about the Caribbean, do not listen to pre-meds who think they know everything when they really do not know anything.


drcrispmd
Board certified

 

[Frankie_FuturePCP]

Thanks for this post, I'm currently a Carib student. It makes me very happy to see other Carib trained physicians who were successful in matching and are working in the field. I'm NOT a genius, I'm over 30, and I'm a single parent so this was the best route for me. I love my school and the people who are taking this journey with me. Some good news for me is that I'm a veteran and my Post 9/11 G.I. Bill is paying for my tuition. I thought I'd post a few of the things that I love about my school but that are both a gift and a curse.
1. My class is only 20 people. Our profs know us each by name (that can be a good thing or a VERY bad thing ). My biochemistry prof was also recently promoted to Dean. Talk about pressure...
2. We can ask a bazillion and one questions if we need to, and our profs are so determined to ensure we understand the material. Asking a bazillion and one questions slows us all down as a whole and we have to have extra classes as a result.
3. Tuition is great (less than $7k per semester) but island life isn't so good as we are targets to a few of the locals because we are foreign.
4. Start to finish time is only 40 months. Good if you stay on target, bad if you are easily distracted or slow to pick things up because things happen at such a FAST pace.
5. School is an 8-9 hour day. Classes begin at 8am and end at 5 pm most days. Then you have to study for our mini exams every two weeks.
6. Exams every two weeks. They prepare us for NBME and USMLE though so I won't complain.
7. I have been working with patients since my first semester. We help out with the community clinics, we go and do a sort of clinical rotation (MD, MPH supervised) and have been learning so much as a result. I'm also a member of AMSA (American Medical Students Asso.) so I have been able to work out some of my jitters and am not as nervous when I see patients now. With that being said, it's hard hard work and the clinics sometimes take away from the short amount of study time we already have. If you love it though, you will find time.

I'm in my second semester and I'll keep you all posted on how it works out for me. Right now Physiology is really kicking my ass because I hate reading Costanzo, but it is what it is. If you have any advice for me please send it my way...

 

[Baller MD]

@Skip Intro, Would you do it again TODAY (assuming you are the same age today as you were 9 years ago) given the changes in tuition, matching competition, etc.? Also, if you were to do it again TODAY, would you try to go to a DO school before Caribbean?

 

[Baller MD]

Well said!

I am also a Carib Grad. I have friends in ortho, derm, optho, rads, anesthesia, IM, peds, surgery, plastics, neonatology, FM, path, etc.

It should not be your first choice. Only consider the top 4.

I felt my rotations were good. My school required all rotations be greenbook (with a residency in that field). I also rotated with US MD and DO students.

However, the horror to think there are Caribbean grads who are actually faculty at some schools and residencies teaching US MD students! I mean since we are not equal and have subpar training, how could they ever teach US students. (For those who could not pick up on this, I am being sarcastic).

If you are going to seek advice about the Caribbean, do not listen to pre-meds who think they know everything when they really do not know anything.


drcrispmd
Board certified

What's the point of even mentioning that? The amount of Caribbean grads matching into something like Derm is so rare that it's nearly impossible for almost anyone to get in. Not to sound like a dick, but even American MD grads have a heck of a hard time getting into Derm.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Thanks for this post, I'm currently a Carib student. It makes me very happy to see other Carib trained physicians who were successful in matching and are working in the field. I'm NOT a genius, I'm over 30, and I'm a single parent so this was the best route for me. I love my school and the people who are taking this journey with me. Some good news for me is that I'm a veteran and my Post 9/11 G.I. Bill is paying for my tuition. I thought I'd post a few of the things that I love about my school but that are both a gift and a curse.
1. My class is only 20 people. Our profs know us each by name (that can be a good thing or a VERY bad thing ). My biochemistry prof was also recently promoted to Dean. Talk about pressure...
2. We can ask a bazillion and one questions if we need to, and our profs are so determined to ensure we understand the material. Asking a bazillion and one questions slows us all down as a whole and we have to have extra classes as a result.
3. Tuition is great (less than $7k per semester) but island life isn't so good as we are targets to a few of the locals because we are foreign.
4. Start to finish time is only 40 months. Good if you stay on target, bad if you are easily distracted or slow to pick things up because things happen at such a FAST pace.
5. School is an 8-9 hour day. Classes begin at 8am and end at 5 pm most days. Then you have to study for our mini exams every two weeks.
6. Exams every two weeks. They prepare us for NBME and USMLE though so I won't complain.
7. I have been working with patients since my first semester. We help out with the community clinics, we go and do a sort of clinical rotation (MD, MPH supervised) and have been learning so much as a result. I'm also a member of AMSA (American Medical Students Asso.) so I have been able to work out some of my jitters and am not as nervous when I see patients now. With that being said, it's hard hard work and the clinics sometimes take away from the short amount of study time we already have. If you love it though, you will find time.

I'm in my second semester and I'll keep you all posted on how it works out for me. Right now Physiology is really kicking my ass because I hate reading Costanzo, but it is what it is. If you have any advice for me please send it my way...

Did you do some research on your school before you went there? I have seen in this forum that they usually recommend people to go to the big 4, AUA, MUA or St Matthews. I hope you did your research about the school. GL

 

[drcrispmd]

What's the point of even mentioning that? The amount of Caribbean grads matching into something like Derm is so rare that it's nearly impossible for almost anyone to get in. Not to sound like a dick, but even American MD grads have a heck of a hard time getting into Derm.

The reason I mentioned it was because pre-med students say there is zero chance of getting these residencies if you go Carib. Yes I know derm is difficult. These docs went to the Carib and worked hard and matched into very competitive residencies. Extremely hard, yes but to say there are zero chance and Carib grads never match into x, y, z is not correct.

Everyone needs to do their research on any school they go to. I do. Not know much about MUA or AUA, but I do know St Matthews can get licensed in only 30 states.

 

[edgerock24]

Thanks for this post, I'm currently a Carib student. It makes me very happy to see other Carib trained physicians who were successful in matching and are working in the field. I'm NOT a genius, I'm over 30, and I'm a single parent so this was the best route for me. I love my school and the people who are taking this journey with me. Some good news for me is that I'm a veteran and my Post 9/11 G.I. Bill is paying for my tuition. I thought I'd post a few of the things that I love about my school but that are both a gift and a curse.
1. My class is only 20 people. Our profs know us each by name (that can be a good thing or a VERY bad thing ). My biochemistry prof was also recently promoted to Dean. Talk about pressure...
2. We can ask a bazillion and one questions if we need to, and our profs are so determined to ensure we understand the material. Asking a bazillion and one questions slows us all down as a whole and we have to have extra classes as a result.
3. Tuition is great (less than $7k per semester) but island life isn't so good as we are targets to a few of the locals because we are foreign.
4. Start to finish time is only 40 months. Good if you stay on target, bad if you are easily distracted or slow to pick things up because things happen at such a FAST pace.
5. School is an 8-9 hour day. Classes begin at 8am and end at 5 pm most days. Then you have to study for our mini exams every two weeks.
6. Exams every two weeks. They prepare us for NBME and USMLE though so I won't complain.
7. I have been working with patients since my first semester. We help out with the community clinics, we go and do a sort of clinical rotation (MD, MPH supervised) and have been learning so much as a result. I'm also a member of AMSA (American Medical Students Asso.) so I have been able to work out some of my jitters and am not as nervous when I see patients now. With that being said, it's hard hard work and the clinics sometimes take away from the short amount of study time we already have. If you love it though, you will find time.

I'm in my second semester and I'll keep you all posted on how it works out for me. Right now Physiology is really kicking my ass because I hate reading Costanzo, but it is what it is. If you have any advice for me please send it my way...

What school are you at? If you only have 20 people in your class... sorry to tell you, but you are likely attending a medical school that is not accredited in all 50 states. You may likely end up not matching because of this. Don't know why anyone would attend a 'crappy' medical school like this in the first place. You may want to consider transferring to one of the Big 4 carib. schools.

 

[Frankie_FuturePCP]

Thank you @BestDoctorEver I need it! @edgerock24 I'm attending International American University.

Yes, I did quite a bit of research on my school before I attended simply because I am using US government funding to pay for my tuition. I couldn't just jump into the first school with a Caduceus on the sign because the VA wouldn't have approved them. There are 20 students in my classroom; which is just fine with me. There are four other classrooms on my floor, which have anywhere from 20-50 students in their classrooms, but I'm happy I'm not in those classrooms though. There are several students who've matched to programs ranging from family practice to surgery all over the country who graduated from my school so I'm not worried. I'm not your typical medical student as I'm a veteran. I have a few more options when it comes to matching and state accreditation doesn't scare me. I'm from the east coast and as long as NY approval happens I'm good. Regardless of that though, there are more and more companies that are willing to hire physicians who are licensed in ANY state (i.e. the VA) and if I run into a snag I'll happily go and work for a company like that.

Each person has to weigh their situation and right now, this school works for me. With that being said, if one day I wake up and realize it does not I will
The big 4 are becoming as competitive and as expensive as US schools, not to mention they have large student to professor ratios (I actually want a smaller ratio so that I can ask questions and not feel like a number) my undergrad was like that and I hated it. When I begin my clinical rotations I will have more insight as to what the better option would have been and I'll be sure to give as much advice as I can to others who are pursuing this goal.

I hope you all are enjoying your long weekend. #MEEERICA I must get back into this Guyton (I have an exam on Monday - renal phys).

 

[Skip Intro]

@Skip Intro, Would you do it again TODAY (assuming you are the same age today as you were 9 years ago) given the changes in tuition, matching competition, etc.? Also, if you were to do it again TODAY, would you try to go to a DO school before Caribbean?

To be fair, it would have to be 13 years ago when I started at Ross. And, the answer is probably "yes". With a few stipulations.

First, if I was guaranteed to be in the field I love (anesthesiology) and continue to have the opportunity to enjoy my current lifestyle. I seriously can't see myself doing anything else and being happy.

Secondly, I'd have to know that 8 years from now I'd have the same job security, salary, and growth opportunity that I have now. I do not practice in a major metropolitan area that is controlled by pedigree snobs. There are areas like that, even now, where I wouldn't have the opportunities that I have where I'm currently employed. I enjoy a good lifestyle, I am respected and treated as a colleague by everyone, and I have job security. All things being equal, that's the tradeoff (practicing in an area that needs doctors) compared to being in a major metropolitan area where some people look at and care about where you got your degree.

Of course, right now I'm not sure I would've gotten the residency spot I did back then (assuming I'd be starting as an MS-1 at Ross this August instead of in 2001). Tough to say.

-Skip

 

[Baller MD]

To be fair, it would have to be 13 years ago when I started at Ross. And, the answer is probably "yes". With a few stipulations.

First, if I was guaranteed to be in the field I love (anesthesiology) and continue to have the opportunity to enjoy my current lifestyle. I seriously can't see myself doing anything else and being happy.

Secondly, I'd have to know that 8 years from now I'd have the same job security, salary, and growth opportunity that I have now. I do not practice in a major metropolitan area that is controlled by pedigree snobs. There are areas like that, even now, where I wouldn't have the opportunities that I have where I'm currently employed. I enjoy a good lifestyle, I am respected and treated as a colleague by everyone, and I have job security. All things being equal, that's the tradeoff (practicing in an area that needs doctors) compared to being in a major metropolitan area where some people look at and care about where you got your degree.

Of course, right now I'm not sure I would've gotten the residency spot I did back then (assuming I'd be starting as an MS-1 at Ross this August instead of in 2001). Tough to say.

-Skip

Thanks for the reply.

 

[YeastyMan]

To be fair, it would have to be 13 years ago when I started at Ross. And, the answer is probably "yes". With a few stipulations.

First, if I was guaranteed to be in the field I love (anesthesiology) and continue to have the opportunity to enjoy my current lifestyle. I seriously can't see myself doing anything else and being happy.

Secondly, I'd have to know that 8 years from now I'd have the same job security, salary, and growth opportunity that I have now. I do not practice in a major metropolitan area that is controlled by pedigree snobs. There are areas like that, even now, where I wouldn't have the opportunities that I have where I'm currently employed. I enjoy a good lifestyle, I am respected and treated as a colleague by everyone, and I have job security. All things being equal, that's the tradeoff (practicing in an area that needs doctors) compared to being in a major metropolitan area where some people look at and care about where you got your degree.

Of course, right now I'm not sure I would've gotten the residency spot I did back then (assuming I'd be starting as an MS-1 at Ross this August instead of in 2001). Tough to say.

-Skip

Skip, I know that you have worked and trained with students from AUC, Ross, St. George's, and SABA.
So I am going to ask you a question that you hate to answer: Could you rank the big 4?

I have researched extensively into this topic on SDN, and seem to get mixed ranking from everyone. Rightfully so because there are a lot of factors going into this decision, and sometimes this just comes down to personal preference.

Just think of it as if you were to get acceptance to all the big 4. Which one would you want to go more.

Thank you!

 

[Skip Intro]

I don't think it's fair or proper for me to "rank" the schools. Each has its own considerations (education cost, time, island living, location of clerkships, residency placement, overall track records, etc.) that any individual considering attending one of them should strongly factor into their decision. As most of you who follow my posts know, I graduated from Ross and they delivered for me. A lot of this was predicated on me taking and making a lot of individual initiative and decisions regarding my own education, especially during 3rd and 4th clerkship years.

The key to me is the ability to not limit yourself post-graduation in where you can practice. You never know where life is going to take you. Also, many schools have a track record with certain residencies in certain states/geographic areas. I think the best bet is to look at the Match lists of each school before making a decision to attend and see where graduates consistently place and train. Most of you will make important connections during residency that will determine in large part where you're going to practice post-training. If there is an area and specialty you want to be in, then you can make your decision from there. Also, overall cost of education is an issue and this may be a factor in deciding where you go.

Either way, choose wisely, study hard, don't get side-tracked, and best of luck!

-Skip

 

[Gastrapathy]

Skip: are you paid to train Caribbean medical students?


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Skip Intro]

Skip: are you paid to train Caribbean medical students?

No.

-Skip

 

[Skip Intro]

Okay, I'll expand...

Several years ago there was a poster named "Dr. Cuts" who used to post here regularly. I used to have a link to a post I made in response to one of his. Essentially, he said "avoid this at all costs" with regards to pursuing Caribbean education. Nevermind the fact that he graduated from a Carib school himself, landed a radiology residency, and is probably making more money than most here ever will as a physician.

I took a little umbrage at that. Instead of telling people to "avoid this at all costs", I took it as a personal mission to instead tell people what they need to do to succeed if they make this difficult and life-changing decision to go to the Caribbean for a medical education. You can't really know what you're getting into until you do it. Hopefully my posts paint a more "whole" picture of that. Nothing more. No one pays me for my advice. So, it's worth exactly what you pay for it. I can only hope that people get a clearer picture of what you need to do to be successful by reading my posts and, if I help some people, awesome. That's part of being a doctor. Giving back. This is (part of) the way I do that.

-Skip

 

[Telekinesis]

Skip quick question: is it feasible to apply to say radiology or gas and then as a back up all the im/neuro/fm/psych positions you can? Wouldn't this help one to match and avoid SOAP?

 

[Skip Intro]

Skip quick question: is it feasible to apply to say radiology or gas and then as a back up all the im/neuro/fm/psych positions you can? Wouldn't this help one to match and avoid SOAP?

It's not only feasible, it's advisable.

You get a certain number of prepaid applications, though, through ERAS. After that, you have to pay additional $$$ to list more programs.

A good strategy is to figure out which programs have a history of taking Carib grads and make sure you apply to them. All of them. This includes moderately competitive specialties like ER, anesthesiology, etc. Certainly apply to programs where you did an "audition" clerkship as an elective, where you have a "connection", etc.

Then, you can also apply to a completely separate specialty (FP, IM, etc.) as a back-up. In the end, no program sees your rank list. So, you can rank programs 1-7 (or whatever) in the specialty you want, and then 8-15 (or whatever) in your back-up specialty.

If you do this strategy, you're going to spend a lot of money and go on a LOT of interviews, though. Cost of travel is also a consideration. And, you will only realistically be able to rank those programs where you interviewed. (I guess you could rank a program that didn't interview you, but they're not going to rank you so you're not going to get a spot. Why waste that rank spot?)

I initially applied to over 30 programs. Some of them said "no thanks, not interested" but most I never heard from after they got my ERAS application. Some never even downloaded it.

I interviewed all over the place. I went on, if I recall correctly, 12-13 interviews. I cancelled two in Detroit because I didn't have the money and didn't realistically want to train there. I'd already been on enough interviews that I felt confident that I'd get a spot somewhere. All anesthesiology. Most of my interviews were in the northeast (NY, Boston, Philly, etc.). The farthest I went was University of Miami.

Nowadays, I definitely would've employed the "back-up" strategy and had gone on at least a few IM or FP interviews just to be more certain I would get something. Again, no one has to know where you interview or what your rank list looks like. You can even have specific personal statements and LORs going to specific specialties and specific programs. This is all set-up through ERAS. It'll make sense when you get to that point in your training.

-Skip

 

[Telekinesis]

It's not only feasible, it's advisable.

You get a certain number of prepaid applications, though, through ERAS. After that, you have to pay additional $$$ to list more programs.

A good strategy is to figure out which programs have a history of taking Carib grads and make sure you apply to them. All of them. This includes moderately competitive specialties like ER, anesthesiology, etc. Certainly apply to programs where you did an "audition" clerkship as an elective, where you have a "connection", etc.

Then, you can also apply to a completely separate specialty (FP, IM, etc.) as a back-up. In the end, no program sees your rank list. So, you can rank programs 1-7 (or whatever) in the specialty you want, and then 8-15 (or whatever) in your back-up specialty.

If you do this strategy, you're going to spend a lot of money and go on a LOT of interviews, though. Cost of travel is also a consideration. And, you will only realistically be able to rank those programs where you interviewed. (I guess you could rank a program that didn't interview you, but they're not going to rank you so you're not going to get a spot. Why waste that rank spot?)

I initially applied to over 30 programs. Some of them said "no thanks, not interested" but most I never heard from after they got my ERAS application. Some never even downloaded it.

I interviewed all over the place. I went on, if I recall correctly, 12-13 interviews. I cancelled two in Detroit because I didn't have the money and didn't realistically want to train there. I'd already been on enough interviews that I felt confident that I'd get a spot somewhere. All anesthesiology. Most of my interviews were in the northeast (NY, Boston, Philly, etc.). The farthest I went was University of Miami.

Nowadays, I definitely would've employed the "back-up" strategy and had gone on at least a few IM or FP interviews just to be more certain I would get something. Again, no one has to know where you interview or what your rank list looks like. You can even have specific personal statements and LORs going to specific specialties and specific programs. This is all set-up through ERAS. It'll make sense when you get to that point in your training.

-Skip

I feel this approach was not taken by those who didn't match. I mean isn't matching at its core a probability and chance thing?

 

[Skip Intro]

I feel this approach was not taken by those who didn't match. I mean isn't matching at its core a probability and chance thing?

Hard to say. It would be interesting if the schools collected and posted this information. Of course, they can't per NRMP rules. But, there is also data on the NRMP website regarding how many programs were ranked and how far down the rank list successful matches went. However, I will say that, coming from the Caribbean, if you don't apply broadly and widely, your chances for a successful match go down substantially.

As an interesting anecdote, one of my classmates really wanted to train at the program that I ended-up training at. He ranked them #1 and didn't match there. Obviously, I did. Ironically, the program that he matched at never even offered me an interview. I'm not sure that this demonstrates a "chance" thing, but there are tons of applications for programs to wade through each year. It can be daunting. There is only a set number of applicants, though. The strategies for successful match include what I said above. I'm not sure why the match failures don't match, but once you get face-to-face at a program that's interviewing you, that means you have a chance...

My advice: apply early, apply widely, and follow-up often. The squeaky hinge gets oiled.

-Skip

 

[Dgoins08]

Thank you @BestDoctorEver I need it! @edgerock24 I'm attending International American University.

Yes, I did quite a bit of research on my school before I attended simply because I am using US government funding to pay for my tuition. I couldn't just jump into the first school with a Caduceus on the sign because the VA wouldn't have approved them. There are 20 students in my classroom; which is just fine with me. There are four other classrooms on my floor, which have anywhere from 20-50 students in their classrooms, but I'm happy I'm not in those classrooms though. There are several students who've matched to programs ranging from family practice to surgery all over the country who graduated from my school so I'm not worried. I'm not your typical medical student as I'm a veteran. I have a few more options when it comes to matching and state accreditation doesn't scare me. I'm from the east coast and as long as NY approval happens I'm good. Regardless of that though, there are more and more companies that are willing to hire physicians who are licensed in ANY state (i.e. the VA) and if I run into a snag I'll happily go and work for a company like that.

Each person has to weigh their situation and right now, this school works for me. With that being said, if one day I wake up and realize it does not I will
The big 4 are becoming as competitive and as expensive as US schools, not to mention they have large student to professor ratios (I actually want a smaller ratio so that I can ask questions and not feel like a number) my undergrad was like that and I hated it. When I begin my clinical rotations I will have more insight as to what the better option would have been and I'll be sure to give as much advice as I can to others who are pursuing this goal.

I hope you all are enjoying your long weekend. #MEEERICA I must get back into this Guyton (I have an exam on Monday - renal phys).

Hi are you still in this program? Besides Post 9/11 do they take any other financial aid and are they accredited? Its been a year since your post how is the program going? What are your likes/dislikes & recommendations?

 

[as1212559]

The Caribbean is not going to be a valid option for much longer:
http://www.ecfmg.org/about/initiatives-accreditation-requirement.html

WFME accredited consortiums:
http://wfme.org/about/member-associations

 

[Mad Jack]

 

[Skip Intro]

The Caribbean is not going to be a valid option for much longer:

Huh? That's an interesting conclusion you derived based on the link you posted.

-Skip

 

[Frankie_FuturePCP]

Hi are you still in this program? Besides Post 9/11 do they take any other financial aid and are they accredited? Its been a year since your post how is the program going? What are your likes/dislikes & recommendations?

Hi,

Yes I'm still in the program, I'm studying for my Step 1 right now (hoping to sit in Dec/Jan). No, they don't accept financial aid (but they will accept/work with Walden students). When the (walden/other online program) student receives their refund check they use it to pay tuition/etc. I'll try to check back shortly but please forgive me if it takes a while. I'm completely overwhelmed right now!

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Hi,

Yes I'm still in the program, I'm studying for my Step 1 right now (hoping to sit in Dec/Jan). No, they don't accept financial aid (but they will accept/work with Walden students). When the (walden/other online program) student receives their refund check they use it to pay tuition/etc. I'll try to check back shortly but please forgive me if it takes a while. I'm completely overwhelmed right now!

Of all of the Carib issues, this one galls me the most. Enrolling in an online program, overstating tuition/COL needs, and then re-routing that money to a non-approved school should be fraud.

 

[Skip Intro]

**FRAUD ALERT!**

-Skip

 

[samac]

Of all of the Carib issues, this one galls me the most. Enrolling in an online program, overstating tuition/COL needs, and then re-routing that money to a non-approved school should be fraud.

I was trying to figure out what the poster meant with Walden.
Now all I can say is

 

[longroad2here]

Thanks for this post, I'm currently a Carib student. It makes me very happy to see other Carib trained physicians who were successful in matching and are working in the field. I'm NOT a genius, I'm over 30, and I'm a single parent so this was the best route for me. I love my school and the people who are taking this journey with me. Some good news for me is that I'm a veteran and my Post 9/11 G.I. Bill is paying for my tuition. I thought I'd post a few of the things that I love about my school but that are both a gift and a curse.
1. My class is only 20 people. Our profs know us each by name (that can be a good thing or a VERY bad thing ). My biochemistry prof was also recently promoted to Dean. Talk about pressure...
2. We can ask a bazillion and one questions if we need to, and our profs are so determined to ensure we understand the material. Asking a bazillion and one questions slows us all down as a whole and we have to have extra classes as a result.
3. Tuition is great (less than $7k per semester) but island life isn't so good as we are targets to a few of the locals because we are foreign.
4. Start to finish time is only 40 months. Good if you stay on target, bad if you are easily distracted or slow to pick things up because things happen at such a FAST pace.
5. School is an 8-9 hour day. Classes begin at 8am and end at 5 pm most days. Then you have to study for our mini exams every two weeks.
6. Exams every two weeks. They prepare us for NBME and USMLE though so I won't complain.
7. I have been working with patients since my first semester. We help out with the community clinics, we go and do a sort of clinical rotation (MD, MPH supervised) and have been learning so much as a result. I'm also a member of AMSA (American Medical Students Asso.) so I have been able to work out some of my jitters and am not as nervous when I see patients now. With that being said, it's hard hard work and the clinics sometimes take away from the short amount of study time we already have. If you love it though, you will find time.

I'm in my second semester and I'll keep you all posted on how it works out for me. Right now Physiology is really kicking my ass because I hate reading Costanzo, but it is what it is. If you have any advice for me please send it my way...

Where do you attend school?