Why rankings don't matter?

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Apollo#1585...

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Hey all,

Just wondering if anyone had an explanation for why rankings dont matter for PT school. I get that it's all about passing the exam but Lawyers and MDs have to pass an exam too and going to Harvard Med/Law has been touted as being way better than going to say CSULB Med/Law. (Just an example, I dont know if they actually have those programs)

I don't want to go to Harvard, I would like CSULB ($60,000 vs $26,000), but it'd be nice to have a reason to explain to people when they give me crap or ask why it doesn't matter for "not wanting to go to the 'best' school possible." Info for my own benefit as well.

Thanks!

PS yes, I did a search and didn't find anything on SDN, if anyone knows of a thread and wants to just post the link that would be great!

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I think that's because the market sees PTs as largely "plug-compatible", i.e., a PT is a PT is a PT.
PTs' salaries and incomes are dictated by Medicare and insurance reimbursements so where you go to school is not that important. It's not like you can get a lot more $ if you went to a "highly-ranked" school.

OTOH, lawyers can pretty much charge whatever the market will bear (provided they're really really really good). As for MDs, they were riding a gravy train until Medicare and insurance companies began wising up. So the relative lack of a cap on lawyers'/MDs' earnings enhanced the value of a degree from a top school.
 
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Physical therapists have a lot less influence on the government than lawyers and MD's, for better and for worse. Ideally health care would be cash-based and in that case the school might matter. Even then, I don't think it would matter that much. It shouldn't matter either. The best therapists are the ones who constantly evaluate their performance, learn new skills, and take the time to read research.
 
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Also rankings have no correlation with the quality of education you receive whatsoever. The USNWR rankings in PT are created simply by sending out faculty surveys, and how well a school does is based completely on name recognition of the faculty, not on anything educational.
 
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I think that's because the market sees PTs as largely "plug-compatible", i.e., a PT is a PT is a PT.
PTs' salaries and incomes are dictated by Medicare and insurance reimbursements so where you go to school is not that important. It's not like you can get a lot more $ if you went to a "highly-ranked" school.

OTOH, lawyers can pretty much charge whatever the market will bear (provided they're really really really good). As for MDs, they were riding a gravy train until Medicare and insurance companies began wising up. So the relative lack of a cap on lawyers'/MDs' earnings enhanced the value of a degree from a top school.

Pretty much it IMO.
 
I think that's because the market sees PTs as largely "plug-compatible", i.e., a PT is a PT is a PT.
PTs' salaries and incomes are dictated by Medicare and insurance reimbursements so where you go to school is not that important. It's not like you can get a lot more $ if you went to a "highly-ranked" school.

OTOH, lawyers can pretty much charge whatever the market will bear (provided they're really really really good). As for MDs, they were riding a gravy train until Medicare and insurance companies began wising up. So the relative lack of a cap on lawyers'/MDs' earnings enhanced the value of a degree from a top school.

Elaborate please.
 
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2012/09/doctors-complain-history-physician-income.html

I have been a longtime reader of the above blog. Overall, I find it to be well-written and reasonable.

I arbitrarily pulled this link but its trends are enough to get my point across.
http://mediatrackers.org/national/2013/10/01/8-charts-explain-explosive-growth-u-s-health-care-costs

I noticed a few weeks ago a chart that was pulled showing the exploding healthcare costs. When a service is provided and arbitrary amounts are charged, costs drive up, especially when government is providing the funds and not policing it. Your comment makes sense now.
 
My take on it is this: Imagine different professions in the context of fantasy football. There are some professions where there are some schools that are clearly elite. Engineering for example. Regionally, people will often have the impression that their local school has better impression that it really does.When you move out of that region you find out that it is just that, a regional reputation. BUT there are schools that actually do have the reputation as being better than the others. For example, Cal Tech, MIT, Stanford, Georgia Tech, and maybe Michigan are elite schools that draw the elite students (bottom quartile of last year's freshmen at Cal Tech in engineering averaged a 33 on the ACT) The students at smaller schools with less gravitas still have ACTs higher than most but its not elite. Those schools are very good but not elite. Then there are some schools that have good students but maybe not the cream of the crop. They are still engineering schools and the graduates will still find good jobs, but they might have a harder time getting through some doors at somewhere like NASA or DoD or other places looking for the "best and the brightest."

The fantasy football reference is this for those of you who participate: Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady are elite quarterbacks and if you have the chance to draft them do so. However, if they are gone, you will still be fine with Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Phillip Rivers, Cam Newton etc . . . i.e. there are alot of very good quarterbacks but only a few elite ones.

In PT schools, there are no "elite" schools where doors open for you that wouldn't otherwise open based upon your personality, style, and the region you want to work in.
 
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There's a competition difference in those fields. There are way more people graduating law school than there are good law jobs so only graduates of highly ranked schools and the top graduates of lower ranked schools have a chance. Similarly, in medical school graduates need to be able to get into the residencies that they want so the higher ranked school can be helpful. Physical therapy doesn't have the shortage of jobs that law has and residencies aren't common yet.

Part of it is the programs available too. I don't think a lot of ivy league type schools like Harvard or Yale even have physical therapy programs. Compared to medicine and law, physical therapy is a pretty young field so the same sort of "elite" labels wouldn't have attached to any programs.

Mostly it's the pay thing though. That sort of a culture of pushing for "elite" credentials doesn't make sense in physical therapy/nursing/occupational therapy/a lot of health care fields. Not very many students are going to pay Harvard costs to make 70,000 a year.
 
Another difference is the education of who is hiring us. In medicine and law, whoever is hiring likely has a degree from a more elite school so they will tend to place additional value on that. In physical therapy in my area, almost every physical therapist in the area that will interview me for a job graduated from the same school I'm going too. Often, the older physical therapists hiring people will have a masters (or heck bachelors is possible) so they are way less likely to be hung up on valuing elite academic credentials.
 
Because PT is such a social profession, a lot has to do with how you, your particular interest/skill set, and experience mix with the current team. You can be super crazy smart but socially awkward and not fit with the team. In chicago, I've seen plenty of great PTs from northwestern but also plenty who I wouldn't want to work with every day. Same goes for a lower ranked school like Rosalind Franklin. If you don't fit, you don't fit. That is the important thing. Don't be labeled by the school you went to. Be labeled by how you treat patients and interact with other staff.
 
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Not very many students are going to pay Harvard costs to make 70,000 a year.

Yes they would. There are hundreds of students right now paying over $50k per year for a DPT at USC, the #1 ranked program.

None of the PT schools that cost well over 6 figures for a DPT have any problem whatsoever filling their classes each year, not even the brand knew and/or generally crappier schools.

And most people who go to Harvard don't actually pay for it out of their own pocket anyway.
 
Fair enough, although a "brand new or crappy" school that charges six figures likely isn't full because people are choosing to go there over other schools so much as that's the school the student got into and the alternative is not going to any pt school.

Even if most people are happy to pay super high costs for school though, the huge benefit of going to a highly ranked school isn't really there in this field.
 
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