Wilderness/Austere Medicine Fellowship

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tele turnin

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Anybody here done a Wilderness/Austere Medicine fellowship? If so PM me if you don't mind. I am on the fence but leaning toward it and would like to hear more about the application process and get more insight into programs and what kind of opportunities are available after fellowship. Thanks in advance.

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Would love to hear about this as well. I know the OP asked for a PM but anything folks are willing to make public would be awesome. Thanks!
 
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What specific questions do you have? I did a Wilderness Medicine fellowship two years ago and interviewed and am familiar with several others. Let me know and i'm happy to try and answer questions!
 
What can you do with a wilderness fellowship, what exciting job opportunities might come your way with having that fellowship done...are there any things that you learned during that fellowship that you feel were amazing, or valuable to becoming an emergency physician :)? Thanks ahead of time!!
 
The most amazing thing about wilderness medicine is getting to spend time with great man known as Paul Auerbach.

Sorry I couldn't resist :p
 
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What specific questions do you have? I did a Wilderness Medicine fellowship two years ago and interviewed and am familiar with several others. Let me know and i'm happy to try and answer questions!

I don't expect anyone to answer all these questions but there seems to be a large amount of interest in the topic so I thought I would string together what are likely common questions.

What made you do the wilderness medicine fellowship?
Are you doing anything now directly as a result of you wilderness medicine fellowship?
What sort of specific career opportunities have you seen for graduates of wilderness medicine fellowships?
What percentage of graduates you know continued to be active in wilderness medicine beyond the recreational level?
How has the fellowship affected your job opportunities?
Has the fellowship had an impact on your practice as an emergency physician?

What are your thoughts on a formal fellowship versus just working a job with a lighter schedule and spending a ton of time outdoors?
How much actual field experience did you get through fellowship?
How was your time in fellowship spent?
Can you think of any specific strengths or weaknesses of the various fellowships?
Some fellowships have blurred the line between wilderness medicine and global health, do you think this is a positive aspect or a loss of focus?

What does a competitive applicant look like?
How much outdoors/wilderness experience do you need to be a competitive applicant?
 
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Any benefit to doing a formal fellowship as opposed to just knocking out FAWM? Im about 1/3 of the way through FAWM currently.
 
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I don't expect anyone to answer all these questions but there seems to be a large amount of interest in the topic so I thought I would string together what are likely common questions.

What made you do the wilderness medicine fellowship?
Are you doing anything now directly as a result of you wilderness medicine fellowship?
What sort of specific career opportunities have you seen for graduates of wilderness medicine fellowships?
What percentage of graduates you know continued to be active in wilderness medicine beyond the recreational level?
How has the fellowship affected your job opportunities?
Has the fellowship had an impact on your practice as an emergency physician?

What are your thoughts on a formal fellowship versus just working a job with a lighter schedule and spending a ton of time outdoors?
How much actual field experience did you get through fellowship?
How was your time in fellowship spent?
Can you think of any specific strengths or weaknesses of the various fellowships?
Some fellowships have blurred the line between wilderness medicine and global health, do you think this is a positive aspect or a loss of focus?

What does a competitive applicant look like?
How much outdoors/wilderness experience do you need to be a competitive applicant?

Sorry for the delayed reply folks! Have been on a string of nights. Here you go, let me know if you have other specific questions:

What made you do the wilderness medicine fellowship? I was deciding between wilderness medicine and global health, because i'm interested in both and am definitely at the intersection of the two. I ultimately chose wilderness med because I felt it was more flexible; many of the global health fellowships require doing an MPH and/or have specific things you have to do (i.e., work/teach at their global site instead of choosing your own). The wilderness fellowship gave me direction and resources, but I could more or less do my own thing.

Are you doing anything now directly as a result of you wilderness medicine fellowship? As a result of the fellowship, not really. I had to move back to NYC because of family reasons but am now in the process of relocating to Tahoe, where I'm going to be volunteering with the backcountry ski patrol and SAR. I have taught AWLS courses and gone on several international trips and expeditions, but the majority of those contacts were made by myself or through other professional contacts, not necessarily the fellowship. A lot of it is networking, so attending WMS and similar meetings goes a long way.

What sort of specific career opportunities have you seen for graduates of wilderness medicine fellowships? There aren't really "career opportunities" associated with wilderness med, as in paid jobs. Most of what you will want to do (SAR, ski patrol, medical support on expeditions, races, etc) are either volunteer posts with your expenses covered or nominally paid. Most of your salary is going to be by working EM shifts. The key is to get a flexible job, either academics or a 1099 contractor position, so that you can set your own schedule and block out time to do these things. I don't know anyone who makes enough money to support themselves doing solely wilderness med. If you end up doing academics, there's probably opportunity to carve out a niche for yourself as an elective or fellowship director so you can cut down on your clinical hours a bit.

What percentage of graduates you know continued to be active in wilderness medicine beyond the recreational level? If by "beyond the recreational level" you mean as a director of an organization or something in academics, then I would say most - you can be as involved as you want to be. As I said above, these positions generally don't pay or pay poorly, so you're going to have to find a clinical job that gives you enough time to pursue your wilderness med activities.

How has the fellowship affected your job opportunities? Not really. Medical directors will generally see you as a warm body who can fill shifts; if you're willing to teach, organize electives, etc., all the better, but unless there's a specific opening for a fellowship director it won't matter as far as getting a job. EM jobs are relatively easy to get, it's a buyer's market.

Has the fellowship had an impact on your practice as an emergency physician? Well, my specific interests going into the fellowship were remote medicine and critical care in remote/austere environments as well as environmental medicine/ climate change. Those are still my interests and my current projects, lectures and volunteering deal with those topics. Doing a fellowship gave me some extra time off to develop those interests further and a mentor to provide some guidance, but I wouldn't say that I obtained any specific skills or knowledge specifically because of doing the fellowship. Like many things in medicine (and in life), your learning will generally be self-directed.

What are your thoughts on a formal fellowship versus just working a job with a lighter schedule and spending a ton of time outdoors? I would say that unless you need hand-holding and a lot of guidance, go for the latter. Try to work a few shifts per month at an academic place to keep one foot in that environment and work as a 1099 the rest of the time - you'll make much more and have more say over your schedule. This is especially true if you're already involved in SAR, ski patrol, etc. There's also a DiMM offered through the WMS that's awesome (though probably overpriced) and many other courses through http://www.theadventuremedic.com/

How much actual field experience did you get through fellowship? How was your time in fellowship spent? I did my fellowship at Stanford, and we got two months of time "off" to do whatever projects we wanted. I worked with the African Flying Doctors (flydoc.org), medical support in Jordan through Racing The Planet, and medical support to an emergency surgical group in Sierra Leone. I also taught for and trained with the Bay Area Mountain Rescue and did some teaching for the residency and med student elective at Stanford. The rest of my time was spent working clinically in the department.

Can you think of any specific strengths or weaknesses of the various fellowships? That's going to be pretty subjective - where do you want to live, what kind of focus do you want to have? Utah has an EMS focus; Denver pays the least; Stanford has the highest cost of living. GW sounds very interesting but it's in DC so not immediately in the wilderness. You really need to go and interview to see which program fits you.

What does a competitive applicant look like? How much outdoors/wilderness experience do you need to be a competitive applicant? I was offered a spot at every program that I interviewed at, but i'm not sure if I just got lucky or if there was something particular they liked about my application. My residency experiences (electives, research) were a mix of international and wilderness medicine. Certainly prior demonstrated interest in wilderness medicine goes a long way, as does showing that you can be self-directed and having a good idea of why you want to do the fellowship that you can articulate. Most programs have 1-2 spots and this is not exactly an interventional cardiology fellowship, so you should be able to get in somewhere if you're likable, have at least some experience, and can explain why you want to go there. As for how much wilderness experience you need, I don't think there's a quantifiable minimum, but you don't need to an Eagle scout, just show what you've done and how you want to expand on it during fellowship.

Any benefit to doing a formal fellowship as opposed to just knocking out FAWM? Honestly, probably not. If you'd rather just do an FAWM through lectures, attending conferences and courses., etc then that's great; you can also do a DiMM or similar course to get more experience. It's all about what you're looking to get out of it - as I stated above, most things like SAR, ski patrol, working at races etc., is going to be about you being willing to do it as they're primarily volunteer positions. Letters on a paper won't matter, just your experience and interest.

Let me know if you guys have any other questions!
 
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How much actual field experience did you get through fellowship? How was your time in fellowship spent? I did my fellowship at Stanford, and we got two months of time "off" to do whatever projects we wanted. I worked with the African Flying Doctors (flydoc.org), medical support in Jordan through Racing The Planet, and medical support to an emergency surgical group in Sierra Leone. I also taught for and trained with the Bay Area Mountain Rescue and did some teaching for the residency and med student elective at Stanford. The rest of my time was spent working clinically in the department.

Thank you for your responses! I don't mean to derail this thread too much - but how the experience with the African Flying Doctors? Feel free to PM me about it if's it's easier.
 
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Any recommendations from those in the know regarding worthwhile courses? Just a quick search shows me all of the below. No clue which are considered worthwhile.

AWLS
DiMM
Wilderness EMT
Wilderness medicine for professional practitioner
Advanced wilderness and expedition provider course
Remote medicine for the advanced provider
Wilderness upgrade for medical professionals
 
Just to put the information out there, WMS has also (within the past few weeks) started offering a Diploma in Marine Sciences (DiMS) which they're building as sort of the aquatic (SCUBA and sailing) version of the DiMM.
 
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Just to put the information out there, WMS has also (within the past few weeks) started offering a Diploma in Marine Sciences (DiMS) which they're building as sort of the aquatic (SCUBA and sailing) version of the DiMM.
I probably won't be the first to get it, but I'm going for this actively. Rate limiting step is Master Diver status, which others might already have.
 
AWLS
DiMM
Wilderness EMT
Wilderness medicine for professional practitioner
Advanced wilderness and expedition provider course
Remote medicine for the advanced provider
Wilderness upgrade for medical professionals
DiMM is great if you want to practice in the mountains. If you don't, it's a collection of expensive WMS conferences and a fancy embroidered Patagonia jacket.
AWLS is a merit badge. If you want to teach the classes, then you should do it. If not, it's not that great of a benefit to you. It is a quick way to get FAWM credit though.
You already supercede any wilderness EMT training, so it's not important. WFR is the same.
The rest of those are great if they give you contacts, but WMS is the best, most scientific body out there, and they don't offer any of them. NOLS and RMI are reputable. The guys from wilderness-medicine are nice, but they're more of a CME course and not really an agency that does a lot of research.
 
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I probably won't be the first to get it, but I'm going for this actively. Rate limiting step is Master Diver status, which others might already have.

How involved is the USCG Captain’s License?

Edit: Also, am I reading the MedSail information right? You have to pay $10k+ to rent a yacht? It's not like the DiMM is cheap either, just curious.
 
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Thank you for your responses! I don't mean to derail this thread too much - but how the experience with the African Flying Doctors? Feel free to PM me about it if's it's easier.

The Flying Doctors was amazing - easily the most fun, educational, and interesting thing I've ever done clinically. You need to set it up about 6-9 months in advance but it's otherwise fairly easy to do. You're on call 24/7 but you can ask for days off to travel/explore; you also have a phone with you so you don't need to hang out at the base unless you want to. The critical care nurses you fly with are very good; they're not going to help you too much as far as coming up with a clinical plan, but they'll draw up meds, start IVs and run pressors, etc. At least 50% of my patients required some kind of critical care (intubation, push dose pressors, CPAP, chest tube, etc). Lots of trauma, lots of cerebral malaria and other complications. You'll get to see hospitals in all kinds of crazy places, you'll get to intubate pts on the runway, etc. As a bonus, the pilots are also very friendly and will let you sit in the co-pilot's seat if you want and explain how things work; if you're flying in the little unpressurized Cessnas you'll sometimes get to fly low enough to see wildlife in the game park.

I strongly recommend this for someone either in their senior year of a 4th year program or once you're a year or so out; I *loved* it. Feel free to PM me for more specific details.
 
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DiMM is great if you want to practice in the mountains. If you don't, it's a collection of expensive WMS conferences and a fancy embroidered Patagonia jacket.
AWLS is a merit badge. If you want to teach the classes, then you should do it. If not, it's not that great of a benefit to you. It is a quick way to get FAWM credit though.
You already supercede any wilderness EMT training, so it's not important. WFR is the same.
The rest of those are great if they give you contacts, but WMS is the best, most scientific body out there, and they don't offer any of them. NOLS and RMI are reputable. The guys from wilderness-medicine are nice, but they're more of a CME course and not really an agency that does a lot of research.

Agree with this for the most part. Having extra credentials (DiMM, FAWM, etc) is mostly for building a bigger CV so you can give lectures and teach CME courses. Best way to do that is to make contacts; best way of doing that, aside from attending WMS conferences, is to volunteer for relevant groups - search and rescue, ski patrol, etc. They're generally volunteer groups who'll be happy to have you give lectures and run workshops on wilderness med topics, and it will help you build up expertise and your CV.
 
Big thanks to Frogger for taking the time to provide great insight!
 
Does Flying Doctors have a minimum time commitment?

They generally want at least a month, but many doctors come for 2-3 months. It takes at least a week or two to really get a handle on how everything works, the meds, the equipment, etc. I spent 6 weeks there each time I did it; there was a UK anesthetist who came for just three weeks, but pretty much everyone else was doing 1-3 months.
 
Any tips to completing the FAWM as efficiently as possible?

Does doing a formal fellowship have any benefit in terms of protected and mentored time to develop or refine outdoor technical skills?
 
Any tips to completing the FAWM as efficiently as possible?
Do a NOLs course, it gives you like 75% of the credits. Then buy the lectures that they give once a decade to get the last few core credits.
Does doing a formal fellowship have any benefit in terms of protected and mentored time to develop or refine outdoor technical skills?
Fellowship often is little of the "outdoor technical skills" although not none. It's more creating a project, networking, and learning how to make a career out of wildmed IMO. Don't expect to be high angle/swiftwater/whatever certified after any given fellowship. Sure, some do them, but many don't. Most fellowships get you enough to get FAWM though.

Expect wilderness medicine to follow the mold of EMS. For the next decade or so, there will continue to be loosely organized fellowships of varying lengths. And then finally there will be a decision to make a real board for said field. For a short period of time they will allow you to grandfather that board as long as you take the test, but it will go away quickly. Hell, it's nearly impossible to grandfather the EMS boards already. In talks with those high up, there isn't any new push on getting it boarded, and there's talk of a moratorium towards EM subspecialties as apparently we are getting too big for our britches for the other fields.
 
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Does anyone know how much credit I can get towards the FAWM for military coursework like mountain medicine and tropical medicine? The site won't let me see what activities grant credit until I pay to register.
 
Does anyone know how much credit I can get towards the FAWM for military coursework like mountain medicine and tropical medicine? The site won't let me see what activities grant credit until I pay to register.

It depends how you list them - generally educational activities like hour-long lectures or workshops get about 1 credit each. If you took an entire course that's worth more but you would have to contact them to negotiate exactly how much as it's not standard. There are other ways to get FAWM credits, such as teaching or projects, and each of those is worth several credits as well. But generally speaking, don't assume that you'll be able to get the bulk of your credits from courses like that; the idea of the FAWM is that you develop a broad knowledge base, so that even if you have a diploma in tropical medicine you'll still need quite a few credits in other disciplines to get the FAWM.
 
Best just to send an email. Bob Quinn was the director of the academy the last time I checked, but it's been a couple of years. If you send it to someone at WMS, they'll route it to the right person.
Running a wilderness medicine elective for 3 consecutive years gave me ~20 hours of experiential credit, but not a ton of core credit.
 
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Core credit seems to be the difficult thing to get. I most likely will just drop a couple grand on videos and be done with it at some point.
 
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Don't forget the journal article reviews with quizzes. Free/Easy way to knock out core credits if you choose the articles correctly. They recently put a limit (12?) on how many credits you can get this way.
 
Don't forget the journal article reviews with quizzes. Free/Easy way to knock out core credits if you choose the articles correctly. They recently put a limit (12?) on how many credits you can get this way.

Yea, kicking myself for not being more aggressive about them before the limit was imposed...


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I wanted to say that I'm particularly enjoying Dr. Ken Iserson's (an EP) stories from his assignments in Antarctica. Made me watch some documentaries on Netflix.
 
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Yea, kicking myself for not being more aggressive about them before the limit was imposed...


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At one point a couple years ago I accomplished 54 hours of CME in 37 minutes. It was pretty impressive. I only got 12 hours of core though. I've been sitting 7 hours shy for more than 12 months now. Sometimes they're too picky. At annual last year, there was a lecture titled "Fever in the returning traveler" and it had the same numbers as the core credit. However, they didn't give credit for it, and when I emailed to ask, the answer was basically "sometimes we just don't give credit, even if everything looks right".
Sigh.
 
For those who have done the FAWM: about how much has it cost you to get this fellowship? I'm active duty military with a CME budget of 0 dollars, so I'd like to know how much of an outlay this is going to be before I get into it.
 
For those who have done the FAWM: about how much has it cost you to get this fellowship? I'm active duty military with a CME budget of 0 dollars, so I'd like to know how much of an outlay this is going to be before I get into it.

As a rough estimate, I'd expect to pay about $5k. It adds up quick. FAWM candidacy, 5 years of attending WMS membership, and a few conferences is going to break $3k alone. Then you have the AWLS course, preconferences, CME trips, and individual online lectures most people need to wrap up the requirements. Food and board during conferences is an additional cost.
 
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