Will salaries match the rising cost of tution?

[twsurfsnow]

I was just comparing tuition at a variety of schools as well as looking at starting salaries.
I have noticed a majority of PT jobs start in the 60-80k range, however, a majority of schools have rising tuition costs that put many new grads between 70-140k in debt, not including cost of living while attending. I believe St. Augustine costs just as much as attending a Caribbean MD school.

Can any DPTs comment on how difficult it is to pay off this amount of debt with only a 70k a year salary or if the pay rate for DPTs will rise now that it has been a doctoral degree for some time? Or will the tuition just keep rising while the salary stays the same? I just feel that if you go into that much debt, the salaries should be higher.

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[Rgvmed]

I highly doubt the salary for DPTS will rise significantly, outside of natural increases due to inflation. Unfortunately, you could eventually see an eventual slight decrease on average salaries due to a flooding of the market at some point, which has already happened in some areas. Look at pharmacy, many students have a heck of a time finding employment in a desirable area post graduation. However, in my opinion, I wouldn't worry too much about this as you can always pursue positions that offer slight loan reimbursement and higher salary due to a rural setting. I'm keeping tuition in mind when applying to programs this cycle. I believe University of Vermont has a ridiculous tuition, something around like 150k....insane. I wouldn't feel comfortable with taking on that much debt when you very well be making 60k in your first job, with a 1k a month student loan payment depending on your payment plan.

 

[scrawnyguy]

That's why I have my sights set on Army-Baylor. I'll be in my mid-30's by the time I start school and going into 6 figure debt when trying to start a family is a no-go for me. 10 years ago I would have considered taking on the debt but at this point in my life I'm not willing to do it.

 

[jbizzle]

... or if the pay rate for DPTs will rise now that it has been a doctoral degree for some time?...

Nope

 

[jquitt]

I highly doubt the salary for DPTS will rise significantly, outside of natural increases due to inflation. Unfortunately, you could eventually see an eventual slight decrease on average salaries due to a flooding of the market at some point, which has already happened in some areas. Look at pharmacy, many students have a heck of a time finding employment in a desirable area post graduation. However, in my opinion, I wouldn't worry too much about this as you can always pursue positions that offer slight loan reimbursement and higher salary due to a rural setting. I'm keeping tuition in mind when applying to programs this cycle. I believe University of Vermont has a ridiculous tuition, something around like 150k....insane. I wouldn't feel comfortable with taking on that much debt when you very well be making 60k in your first job, with a 1k a month student loan payment depending on your payment plan.

wow. 150k before living expenses. Thats absurd. At some point, you're just charging more tution simply because you can. Just the way things are I guess.

 

[jquitt]

I was just comparing tuition at a variety of schools as well as looking at starting salaries.
I have noticed a majority of PT jobs start in the 60-80k range, however, a majority of schools have rising tuition costs that put many new grads between 70-140k in debt, not including cost of living while attending. I believe St. Augustine costs just as much as attending a Caribbean MD school.

Can any DPTs comment on how difficult it is to pay off this amount of debt with only a 70k a year salary or if the pay rate for DPTs will rise now that it has been a doctoral degree for some time? Or will the tuition just keep rising while the salary stays the same? I just feel that if you go into that much debt, the salaries should be higher.

I wish the pay would eventually offset the high costs at some schools but I doubt we'll see that. Perhaps more public schools will offer the DPT program in the future and hopefully the cost would be reasonable?

 

[Rgvmed]

I wish the pay would eventually offset the high costs at some schools but I doubt we'll see that. Perhaps more public schools will offer the DPT program in the future and hopefully the cost would be reasonable?

Exactly, the competitive applicants can avoid the high tuition if they really want. You can easily find a school for under 75k, just depends on if you will get in or not. Although there seems to be some variance in this statement as a lot of the more prestigious programs are quite expensive. The way I'm seeing it, find a balance between reputation and tuition.

 

[jesspt]

Exactly, the competitive applicants can avoid the high tuition if they really want. You can easily find a school for under 75k, just depends on if you will get in or not. Although there seems to be some variance in this statement as a lot of the more prestigious programs are quite expensive. The way I'm seeing it, find a balance between reputation and tuition.

There is no balance. Tuition matters more. A lot more. It should be your first, second, and nearly only concern. Unless the NPTE pass rate is awful, go to the cheapest school you can get into. Do NOT worry about "reputation."

 

[Watson27]

Just to echo what everyone else is saying:

Salaries aren't going to improve anytime soon. So go to a school with the lowest tuition possible. Even the director of the DPT program at my undergrad institution regularly told us to not worry about reputation. His advice was if you don't get into your first choice/prestigious university, but you get into safety/no-name school - DO NOT hold out for another year hoping to get into your first choice on the next cycle. A DPT is a DPT. No one cares where you went as long as you pass the NPTE.

For example, none of my in-state schools really appeal to me, and I would love to go to a top 10 out of state. But having <$75k in debt sure beats $120k+. Even if it means having to go to a small school with little opportunity for research. And Vermont is one of those schools that I would love to go to...

 

[jquitt]

There is no balance. Tuition matters more. A lot more. It should be your first, second, and nearly only concern. Unless the NPTE pass rate is awful, go to the cheapest school you can get into. Do NOT worry about "reputation."

Good point. That NPTE pass rate is key. Probably retention and whether or not the program has had any problems with their accreditation too.

 

[scrawnyguy]

One of the PTs I shadow was lamenting about this the other day. Between PT school and her undergrad she is in 6 figure debt. She went to a private school, but she admitted she would have done things differently if she could do it all over again. She said one advantage of working at our hospital is that she will qualify for a public service loan forgiveness after 10 years as long she keeps making payments on time. It's definitely a big investment.

 

[Rgvmed]

There is no balance. Tuition matters more. A lot more. It should be your first, second, and nearly only concern. Unless the NPTE pass rate is awful, go to the cheapest school you can get into. Do NOT worry about "reputation."

Trust me, tuition is the number one concern for me.

 

[engmedpt]

I broke this down a million ways. Talked to a million people. School is a business. Deal with the debt or go a different career path. Prestige is nothing unless you like California and 150k in tuition alone. You should've considered this before actually being on the verge of applying. It's not unmanageable. Just be smart in applying and realistic in how you will live for a good part of your 20s, maybe early 30s. Check out income based repayment and loan foregiveness programs when the time comes.

On that note..........it's a rewarding career with stability, patient interaction, and manageable stress . Good luck!

 

[NewTestament]

Debt is not going to go down as long as the number of applicants keeps rising. Why should schools reduce costs when there are so many people willing to pay?

Understand that if you go into PT school, you will have to make more sacrifices. You might have to buy a $25k car and not a BMW, or you might have to wait a few more years to start a family. You might have to work in a setting or in a location you don't necessarily want.

You could probably make more money just going to business school for a couple years and spending $30-40k.

But like the OP said, PT is rewarding and you will change people's lives. PT's have a high job satisfaction rate, much higher than most GP's.

 

[DesertPT]

...if the pay rate for DPTs will rise now that it has been a doctoral degree for some time?...

The fact that it is now a "doctoral" degree has no impact on salary or indeed whether or not you are a clinically excellent therapist. Plenty of very reputable universities created a DPT program out of an MPT program by lengthening it from 27 to 33 months. Big whoop, throw in one semester worth of extra cursory courses on radiology, pharmacology, medical ethics, etc. and tadaa you have a DPT program. Experience is what counts when it comes to being a great therapist. The therapists with master's degrees that I have worked with and been treated by have almost always been better than the DPTs I have done the same with, because the DPTs are mostly 3 years or less out of school.

Well that was a bit of a tangent, thanks for entertaining my rant.

 

[DesertPT]

Also, I don't totally understand why there is always such great consternation about making loan payments on a $70k salary. After taxes and such say you're left with ~$58k a year. You could make $850/month loan payments, which is a very reasonable amount, and still have $4k/month to live on. Tens of millions of families around the country live on $4k a month, albeit humbly if they have multiple kids. And that is with fairly sizable payments (minimum required payments on a ten year plan could be closer to $400-500/month for those with 5-figure debt, or even lower for those that elect to do a 25 year plan), a very typical PT starting salary, and no supplementary income from a spouse or PRN work.

 

[twsurfsnow]

The fact that it is now a "doctoral" degree has no impact on salary or indeed whether or not you are a clinically excellent therapist. Plenty of very reputable universities created a DPT program out of an MPT program by lengthening it from 27 to 33 months. Big whoop, throw in one semester worth of extra cursory courses on radiology, pharmacology, medical ethics, etc. and tadaa you have a DPT program. Experience is what counts when it comes to being a great therapist. The therapists with master's degrees that I have worked with and been treated by have almost always been better than the DPTs I have done the same with, because the DPTs are mostly 3 years or less out of school.

Well that was a bit of a tangent, thanks for entertaining my rant.

This will also become a tangent, but I actually had the opposite experience while shadowing, I shadowed 2 new grad DPTs, 1 BSPT, and 1 MSPT

The 2 new grad DPTs I had shadowed (both about a year out) were more knowledgeable and more thorough in their treatments (Not only did i observe this, but I heard it from the patients themselves), as well as more versed in recent evidence based research (both went to schools in the top 30). In addition, they were always using new techniques to help their patients recover and reading scientific journals when not charting in their downtime.

The MSPT I shadowed was basically trying to run an outpatient clinic while being the only therapist on staff, while double booking all appointments. This lead to patients never being seen on time and the treatment being and ice pack and a tens unit at most, most important thing was getting co-pays to this therapist, not the patient. (I personally would never run a clinic this way, nor do I think its a good business model, or an ethical model). Yet this therapist boasted that they knew what they were doing more than anyone due to the years of experience. I would describe this at best as a failing patient mill.

The BSPT I shadowed was in a hospital setting, this therapist was proficient at inpatient rehab from ICU to Stroke to Ortho, but seemed little to know what was currently happening in PT or current research to better serve the vast variety of patients with the newest information.

 

[DesertPT]

I have noticed that the DPTs do talk about what evidence shows more than the older PTs, probably jusst because EBP wasn't pushed as hard a number of years ago as it is now...but the MPTs I've seen were clearly more experienced...obviously because they are lol