Windowless Office

[keifernny2]

So, question for everyone. .

Starting a new full-time VA attending job. I asked for a window in my office, and asked for a normal desk (not a monstrous corner-built in desk with a computer screen facing the wall that doesn't allow me to see my patients while I type), and I was surprised at how unusual everyone seemed to think that was.

Any other data points on how you "earned" a windowed office, or not ?

As an aside, It got me thinking....if a window *wasn't* a possibility, e.g. a medical office in a strip mall, for example, how many people would refuse the job, or how much more money in Salary would it require to take that job?

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[F0nzie]

The window office is a status symbol and given to those with high rank and respect. I would never ask for a window office because I can't handle that type of responsibility.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

At the VA where I trained, the Mental Health service was in the basement, and nobody had a window.

 

[Ceke2002]

The second clinic I moved to with my Psychiatrist was all windows and glass panes and nice, big open office spaces. I hated it, especially if I was having a bad paranoia day, it was like being stuck in a fishbowl. The clinic I see him at now is much better, no windows in the room, all nice and comfy feeling, I like it way better.

 

[Shikima]

Just ask them to make desk changes for you to make the work flow more efficient.

 

[keifernny2]

So, it seems there needs to be a balance between not enough windows and too many windows.
It's funny how these little things really can affect your workflow.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I think a good analogy can be made between the VA and a 19th century English poor house a la Charles Dickens and Olive Twist. “What more!... You want more?” Be careful what you ask for or you might end up with the artful dodger and work for Fagin.

 

[erg923]

The VA likely has little flexibility about where they are placing your butt. I also doubt your request is high on their list. And, if I was your service chief, it would indeed be low on my list.

I understand the pragmatics of the office arrangement... but a window? Come on. We have much, MUCH bigger things to prioritize in the VA, as I am sure you are becoming acutely aware.

 

[Wilf]

The VA likely has little flexibility about where they are placing your butt. I also doubt your request is high on their list. And, if I was your service chief, it would indeed be low on my list.

I understand the pragmatics of the office arrangement... but a window? Come on. We have much, MUCH bigger things to prioritize in the VA, as I am sure you are becoming acutely aware.

I don't mean this to sound offensive, but I would never go to a VA where they would let a psychologist be service chief of psychiatry.

 

[erg923]

I don't mean this to sound offensive, but I would never go to a VA where they would let a psychologist be service chief of psychiatry.

The chief of the entire mental health service line at mine is a social worker. Don't like it? Dont work for the VA.

 

[Still Kickin]

I know in many places it is not possible for everyone to have a window, but I think it is VERY BAD for the mental health of the office occupant to not have one (circadian rhythms and all that stuff, ya know). Just find it ironic that in the very field where we are trying to help other people work toward optimal mental health, the same courtesies are not necessarily extended to the practitioners themselves. Of course, that is pretty typical for the field of medicine in general... (Referring not just to mental health there, but to "health" in its entirety...)

 

[Still Kickin]

P.S. - I was considering an (admittedly non-VA) job (which I ultimately turned down because of a highly restrictive non-compete clause), and had been shown the offices of others at a similar level/pay grade, and the vast majority of them did not have windows. But, had I taken the job, I had already "negotiated" for an office with a window. They seemed a little surprised that anyone would consider this to in any way be a consideration, and said no-one had ever specifically asked about this before. But they also said it would not be a problem. I understand in some environments it is not going to be possible to have a window, but that experience showed me that sometimes (often?) people don't have things because they don't ask for them. So it never hurts to ask.

 

[erg923]

I know in many places it is not possible for everyone to have a window, but I think it is VERY BAD for the mental health of the office occupant to not have one (circadian rhythms and all that stuff, ya know). Just find it ironic that in the very field where we are trying to help other people work toward optimal mental health, the same courtesies are not necessarily extended to the practitioners themselves. Of course, that is pretty typical for the field of medicine in general... (Referring not just to mental health there, but to "health" in its entirety...)

I would prefer one if that was an option, but I think you're being bit mellow dramatic. I mean "VERY BAD for mental health?" Get real, guy. People are not that soft.

 

[Mass Effect]

The VA likely has little flexibility about where they are placing your butt. I also doubt your request is high on their list. And, if I was your service chief, it would indeed be low on my list.

I understand the pragmatics of the office arrangement... but a window? Come on. We have much, MUCH bigger things to prioritize in the VA, as I am sure you are becoming acutely aware.

Hard to believe the OP's question struck such a nerve in you. Wow.

 

[erg923]

Hard to believe the OP's question struck such a nerve in you. Wow.

Why?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Why?

Do you have a window?

Editing to add that it's a seller's market for psychiatrists. Why not ask for what you want? Little things can make a big difference in the quality of one's day to day existence.

 

[Mass Effect]

Why?

Because it was a fairly simple question and the poster was asking the opinion of others in the field. The fact that you seemed to take it as a personal insult to you and reply in-kind was bizarre, frankly.

 

[erg923]

Because it was a fairly simple question and the poster was asking the opinion of others in the field. The fact that you seemed to take it as a personal insult to you and reply in-kind was bizarre, frankly.

The worlds a wacky place. What can I say. Nobody is insulted, but I would maintain that from a MH administrator's point of view in the VA, you work with what you got. And, given our mission statement, window views ain't high on the list in the grande scheme of things. If it works with the needs of the clinic, sure, you got. If not, I hope one would understand and move on.

 

[erg923]

Do you have a window?

Editing to add that it's a seller's market for psychiatrists. Why not ask for what you want? Little things can make a big difference in the quality of one's day to day existence.

I do not.

 

[keifernny2]

There should be a directive that all federal Behavioral health providers should get windowed offices

Anyway, back to original topic: I figure having a useful window in my office (meaning I can actually look out of it and see something other than another wall, not that it actually would have to open or anything) would be worth about $20 k /yr in compensation. If it was a view of something pretty, like mountains or the ocean, I'd probably go for $30+k.

If I was only working 1 day /wk in the windowless office, or going to meetings in lots of other locations which allowed me to get out into other environments, this differential wouldn't be as great.

I sometimes pay an extra $50/night for a nice view in a hotel room that I don't spend much time awake in. An office that you spend 40 hours /wk can make a big difference.