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they dont let us delete copies!
"dude 'MS3going on4
couple of items.
1) your "living a few blocks" from a "gay neighborhood" makes you an expert on the educational capabilities of an entire nation? its not hard to find data regarding the fact that gay people make more money and have higher level of education than their heterosexual counterparts.
2) your knowing "one person" in your "large class" means that nationwide there is less than 1% gay people in med school? did you ever consider the number of people who...shudder...you may not know their sexual orientation!! whoa! did you consider that your class may not be representative of the whole nation? based on your 'i've crawled out from under a rock' statements, i somehow doubt you are in med school in a big liberal city like SF, where up to 5-10% of the class is gay or lesbian.
3) you can quit calling people "girls" once they turn 16 or so.
4) your "shadowing and research" of surgeons is not applicable, once again to the whole country. your question "have you ever met a gay surgeon" is completely assanine. there are transgender surgeons, gay surgeons, lesbian surgeons...i'd estimate that 10% of the women surgeons (not girls) i know are lesbians, and probably 1-2% of the men are gay. oh, but you've been to five hospitals....in three cities.
5) not everyone who responds on this post is a "dude". about 50% of this country, and 47% of med students, and 20% of surgical residents, and 14% of surgeons actually have two X chromosomes! I know it may sound hard for you to believe since you so eloquently stated "a few [girls-sic] will be smart enought to make it that far"
6) i know you think that having an MD is the penultimate, and since I have one, yes i'm proud of it. BUt did you know that there are...oh my god...OTHER doctorate degrees that are considered just as high (or, in the case of PhD's...often "higher" )education?
7) you said "we're doctors"...i'd like to point out that the YOU part of "we're" is actually NOT a doctor. based on your other posts, you are in fact probably a second year med student....(but somehow, an expert, based on your housing locale and massive experience 'talking to surgeons' on how many surgeons are gay or lesbian)
"dude" you should consider how insulting your post is...and think before you embarrass yourself (even anonymously) online.
3) you can quit calling people "girls" once they turn 16 or so....
i hope youre not insinuating that my thoughts are rubbish because i don't yet have the MD. and yes this is very provocative thinking, but please just consider my points.
neurosurgeons make up about 0.1% of all residents. you'd be hard pressed to find a gay individual in neurosurgery, if one even exists
could they exist? sure. do they? it's a very fair question, and in small fields like urology, an excellent question.
my answer - dont be surprised if you go your whole career without meeting one.
the question was are there women or gays in urology?
women, yes, not nearly as much as men, but yes, and you'll see them.
gays, very very few. you may never meet one (in urology that is).
a gay urologist working in a gay area specialized to gay issues. except emphasizing condom use to everyone yet seeing AIDS cases day in and day out would be like trying to get a thought across to you. but the money would be good. hmm...the cheap laughs are good too tho; i'll stick to the forum.
a doctor unaware of the issues of AIDS and other STDs in homosexual populations has got a lot of work ahead of him.
i'm gonna take that as a yes on being in a field with very little patient contact
Arthur...
2. You clearly are not involved in clinical medicine right now, or you would realize how unlikely it is that a doctor enjoys thinking about any of their patients in a sexual way. We're way to busy thinking about other things, and even if we weren't, you only have to spend a few shifts in a medical clinic to realize how sexually uninteresting everyone is when they are talking about their medical problems. That includes when I've rotated through sexual dysfunction clinics, where we focus on the patient's sex life. - end Quote
Ha Ha! So true! Most patients seeing a urologist are at least over 45, most more likely above 60's - have you seen the average 45-70 y/o man naked? Not exactly porn-star material - fat and wrinkly. I can't imagine even having any sexual appreciation for examining this body part in most patients. Maybe you'll realize this when, as a man, you do your OB rotation and see how attractive you find 400 lb naked women, old women with prolapse, or even young cute girls with smelly yeast infections or STD's. People go to a doctor for a medical problem and doctors are in the mindset to treat a medical problem - whether it's examining their heart or examining their private parts, there's really nothing sexual about it ever.
And to this guy who thinks gay men just don't achieve higher education...no, I don't know many openly gay surgeons, but it's more likely that they just don't broadcast their personal life to everyone, since surgeons (and probably all physicians in comparison to the general public) tend to be more conservative and maybe even less accepting of alternative lifestyles, it would probably not be of benefit professionally for these guys to advertize their sexual preference - especially if they were a urologist it could be a bad move in a conservative area to make too much noise about it - plenty of homophobic patients like you would choose not to go to him.
Congratulations for resurrecting one of the dumbest threads on this forum ever.
for f*cks sake, just end this thread already. People will do whatever they do for whatever reasons they want to do it. Either you get it or you don't. Stop asking why would someone do this or that. Who the f*** cares. Just do what you want and quit asking stupid questions.
How common is it for women or gays to enter urology?
No offense with the question, I'm interested in learning more about the demographics of those entering the field.
gay people generally don't achieve the same educational success that straight people do.
that's a bold statement, i know. but living near (literally a few blocks) from a very gay neighborhood, and watching them day in and out, very few attain high education; as a matter of fact i'm not even sure theyre capable of it. but that's a totally different issue; keep reading.
now someone's going to point out some statistic that theyre more educated than average, but remember; we're doctors; and i'm talking high professional degrees like MD's.
in my very large medical school class, there are only two homosexuals (less than 1% vs. the national average of like 2%). and its not a huge leap to assume men at this level have attained a strong sense of self and maturity as to not "live a lie" and all that stuff.
urologists are not average. theyre intelligent doctors, and homosexuals rarely make it this high in education. educated? if you call a BA an education. but MD? more likely to have girls than gays
now one of you is gonna say i know a gay urologist and be "that guy" but for the 99% rest of you reading this. if youre on this forum, ur prolly somewhat considering this field, and have probably talked to many surgeons. have u ever met a gay surgeon? ive shadowed, done research, talked to so many doctors at least five hospitals in three different cities and came across MAYBE 1 doctor (not my place to judge or ask, but its impossible not to make note)
so women in urology? sure; 40-50% of med students are women, and a few guaranteed will be smart enough to make it that far (no offense, surgery still retains a little bit of that good ol' men's club; not as much, but a little). but gays? they dont even represent their national numbers by percentage in med school; and when maybe 5% of all doctors are urologist...and fewer than normal number of gays in medicine to begin with...well;ur talkin less than...statistically, .0005 of all urologists.
so that one dude who's gonna respond in protest with an example that he personally knows of...that guy is prolly the only homosexual in all of urology, or maybe one other.
so, in recap...women? sure, plenty even. it's not even a question really. gays? very very few, if any
sry; someone had to say this, might as well be me
If you want to read the full publication:Gay men have moved to large cities and are more highly educated than are heterosexual men.
What an epic thread, almost as good as "Help, I broke my pubic bone".
Personally, I would never see a female Urologist.
So? I'm just saying I wouldn't see one, that's all.
The hottest girl in my class went into urology.
Can't speak for gays, but the percentage of women residents and applying is provided by FREIDA and the AUA. According to FREIDA, about 14% of the 1000 or so urology residents and about 5% of faculty members are female, and according to the AUA, between 60-70% of females match each year.
I know this is an older thread, but I Googled today specifically looking for a gay urologist. Why? I've had "chronic pain" for over 10 years centralized behind my pubic bone somewhere (but feels like it rib cage down). I've been seen by many urologists and GI people and it's just not been a great experience. Some observations:
1) They are embarrassed to touch/rub/poke you "there". I find myself repeatedly assuring them that it's OK to touch me and to feel around, but it's cursory if at all. Just sucks because I can tell in an instance that it's just another wasted trip and more wasted money.
2) They act like they are in a huge hurry to see other patients instead of the patient that's in front of them. They want you to be there 30 minutes before the appointment, you wait in the waiting room for 30minutes to an hour, they call you back to the room where you wait for 30 more minutes, the doctor rushes in, spends 5 minutes logging into the computer and reading up on the nurse notes, asks you what's bothering you, gets you up on the table, has you breath while he/she listens, maybe one poke in the gut, and then OK, we're done. This has not been one isolated case; it is EVERY single urologist I have been to. And it sucks.
I know this is a student forum, so this is how I would have liked to see at least one of the doctors do it (maybe you can go out there, be the one, and once word gets out, people will be coming for miles to see you):
All right, I am going to exam you an this is going to be the most thorough exam you've ever been through. Have you ever worked on you car engine and dropped a bolt down into there. You don't hear it fall out, you can't see where it is, so you just have to get your hands in there and feel around, push/pull/poke until you find it. That's what I will be doing front and back. I'm going to find that damn bolt. I am going to start on the outside and work toward the center of the pain. To start, you push on the pain yourself, poke yourself hard until you think it's the center. If it's spread out everywhere, let me know. Everywhere you feel pain. I'm going to use a marker and annotate those areas. OK, I am now going to do a deep massage type poking and you tell me if I've got the spot. Since I am massaging around, you might get aroused. That's just your body responding to all the stimulation. It doesn't bother me and I hope it doesn't bother you. OK, pushing on back of legs, behind knees, thighs, under scrotum feeling not on the skin, but digging deep feeling each muscle fiber and part (so you really have to know the anatomy cold, because it's a long list of stuff you are eliminating), scrotum, penis, pubic bone, below rib cage, sides, belly button, bladder. OK, now here comes the deep stuff. I'm trying to grab your prostate through your skin, that's how invasive and deep this is going, feeling each part. OK, front's all marked up, let's do the back. Middle of back down, and back of legs up, again, deep probing, massaging. OK, now an internal exam. Not just a quick poke. I'm going to squeeze/poke your insides, going through each part.
OK. "Touch exam" is done. I'm going to send you down for ultrasound of the entire front and back that I've touched, together with a TRUS so I can get a picture from the inside. You will also get a WBC scan to highlight any areas that are inflamed or infected.
Here's on my list of diagnosis that I am trying to rule out: stones (kidney, prostate, scrotum, pancreas, etc.); infection (epididymis, vas deferens, ureters, etc.), tears/torsions, clogged blood vessels, referred pain from spine problems, sexual diseases, parasites, etc. etc.
So, why am I posting in this thread? Because I am actually seeking out a gay or female doctor, because hopefully, they aren't so timid "down there". I just feel that if people's junk is your specialty, you should be all up in it. Bodies are only so big with only so many parts in that specialty, so I'd like to think it's the job to know the entire list of parts, and the constantly evolving list of the medical issues associated with those parts.
If you are a doctor who already examines like above, or knows someone who does, and really knows their stuff, please send me their information. I'll drive or fly anywhere just so I can get one day without (or with less) pain. A long post, I know, but maybe there is something here someone can use. I know that there are other forums/sites where there are tons of people who would appreciate this same type of care.
Regards,
leaning
Please spare us your fantasies.
We are "all up in it" when it's appropriate. The reason these doctors aren't examining you thoroughly is twofold. Number one: you are probably creeping them out with your requests. This isn't a massage parlor bro. Number two: A physical exam is unlikely to be diagnostic/enlightening on someone with chronic idiopathic pelvic pain, especially someone who has seen by many specialists before. You probably need to see a physical therapist and/or psychotherapist. Neither of these issues has anything to do with the urologist's gender or sexual orientation.
Please spare us your fantasies.
We are "all up in it" when it's appropriate. The reason these doctors aren't examining you thoroughly is twofold. Number one: you are probably creeping them out with your requests. This isn't a massage parlor bro. Number two: A physical exam is unlikely to be diagnostic/enlightening on someone with chronic idiopathic pelvic pain, especially someone who has seen by many specialists before. You probably need to see a physical therapist and/or psychotherapist. Neither of these issues has anything to do with the urologist's gender or sexual orientation.