Working a full time reg schedule (M-F, 9-5) and shadow a doctor?

[GhostDoctor]

First off, I know that there are some post similar, yet they are mainly for pre-dental students. (not sure if it applies completely in my situation)

So.... point blank: I'm TERRIFIED to shadow someone. The fact that I have no connections, as from what I am reading, practically means that I must resort to cold calling. I dislike talking on the phone for some reason I don't understand (I know I will have to get over that in the med profession, just not now lol). To have to call for the shadow opportunity is crazy to me! Yet, on a side note, most of my friends think I'm crazy anyways so it would seem only logical that I could do crazy. On top of that, working a full time job and being strapped for cash means that a missed day means missing money (I live that temporary worker life) on my paycheck, and missing money equals unpaid bills. I need advice on how to approach this situation. Based on my personality, shadowing is my best bet to deciding my career choice. It just sucks that I don't have the time.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide this busy worker bee.

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[bbbaaa]

Are you taking classes or in any way affiliated with a school? They usually have resources you can utilize. I backed into some shadowing by working a few hours a week (outside normal business hours) for a doctor just doing administrative type stuff, then he let me shadow.

Exhaust any type of connection you may have in your city: friends parents, old professors, friends of friends parents old hairdressers half brothers uncle, etc.

Even tho it may feel intimidating at first to shadow, every doctor I've run into has been super laid back about it and always willing to help. Just be professional.

 

[GhostDoctor]

Are you taking classes or in any way affiliated with a school? They usually have resources you can utilize. I backed into some shadowing by working a few hours a week (outside normal business hours) for a doctor just doing administrative type stuff, then he let me shadow.

Exhaust any type of connection you may have in your city: friends parents, old professors, friends of friends parents old hairdressers half brothers uncle, etc.

Even tho it may feel intimidating at first to shadow, every doctor I've run into has been super laid back about it and always willing to help. Just be professional.

First, thanks again. Currently I am not taking classes and I have not been affiliated with my school for sometime now, about three years. My girlfriend used that same tactic to gain a nursing position. Pretty smart.

What was your initial approach, BBBAAA, to just getting the doc to let you do administrative stuff? Did you already know this doctor beforehand?

 

[bbbaaa]

I didn't know him, I was looking for part-time medical related work for both $$ and relevant experience, and I responded to a help-wanted advertisement. It was either craigslist or my local university newspapers classified section, can't remember.

 

[bbbaaa]

I probably would have done it for free, as well, just to get my foot in the door. I was sort of scrambling for extracurricular type stuff at the time.

 

[GhostDoctor]

T

I probably would have done it for free, as well, just to get my foot in the door. I was sort of scrambling for extracurricular type stuff at the time.

Sounds like you know my plight. Thanks again, I will look into that avenue.

 

[QofQuimica]

I'd offer to let you shadow me, but it'd be a bit of a commute.

You might want to start by approaching your own PCP. Even if s/he can't help you, some of his/her colleagues might be able to.

 

[Promethean]

Remember that medicine isn't a 9-5 gig. Those pesky patients keep needing care on weekends and all through the night. If you can find a Emergency doc or someone with Saturday clinic hours, you won't have to miss work.

Find out the name of an emergency room doctor or two at your local ER. Track down their office address. It will be on a hospital website. Send them mail. Actual mail, not email. A nicely written, but concise letter that briefly explains your desire to shadow and need to do so outside regular business hours. Ask if they would be amenable to having you shadow them in the ER. Provide all your contact data. Hand address the envelope so that it stands out from the pile of junk mail all doctors receive and cross your fingers. Repeat with new names every couple of weeks until you get a response.

Meanwhile, contact the hospital's volunteer office and ask what kinds of things you need to have done in order to volunteer. Do they require background checks, Tb tests, etc. You can get those things done while you are waiting to hear back from someone, so that when they say you can shadow them, you won't have to then wait a few weeks to get the administrative stuff out of the way before the hospital will let you on premises. You might also try volunteering there, while you are at it. Not only will it give you valuable patient contact, but it could lead to more opportunities for shadowing.

Finally, did you say your girlfriend is a nurse? Does she have any physician friends? No one likes to impose, but if she were willing to mention your situation to a friend or two of hers, you might find that they offer to help. Doctors do like to help people, after all.

Also, consider specifically seeking out DO physicians to ask to shadow. If you apply to DO schools, they generally want to see that you have shadowed a DO, while an MD school is not going to care as much which flavor of doctor you shadowed. Then, if you find that you later need a letter from a DO, you can get it easily..

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I took a vacation day or 4 to do shadowing. Some hospitals have programs set up to do shadowing, I think you would call the education department of the hospital... it's not that bad, doctors really aren't that terrifying, except surgeons, they can fulfill their reputation as a$sholes...

 

[Moose A Moose]

Even though you've been out of school for three years, your alma mater's premedical advisors will still likely help you out in networking someone to shadow. As for working full-time and shadowing: if I did it so can you.

 

[GhostDoctor]

I'd offer to let you shadow me, but it'd be a bit of a commute.

You might want to start by approaching your own PCP. Even if s/he can't help you, some of his/her colleagues might be able to.

Thanks Boron of Chemistry (joking), or rather, the Ku (space, or void) of Chemistry for the offer. At a time like this I wish my other car was a private jet plane. I just got a PCP so when I visit him I'll have to ask (by penalty of death lol).

Remember that medicine isn't a 9-5 gig. Those pesky patients keep needing care on weekends and all through the night. If you can find a Emergency doc or someone with Saturday clinic hours, you won't have to miss work.

Find out the name of an emergency room doctor or two at your local ER. Track down their office address. It will be on a hospital website. Send them mail. Actual mail, not email. A nicely written, but concise letter that briefly explains your desire to shadow and need to do so outside regular business hours. Ask if they would be amenable to having you shadow them in the ER. Provide all your contact data. Hand address the envelope so that it stands out from the pile of junk mail all doctors receive and cross your fingers. Repeat with new names every couple of weeks until you get a response.

Meanwhile, contact the hospital's volunteer office and ask what kinds of things you need to have done in order to volunteer. Do they require background checks, Tb tests, etc. You can get those things done while you are waiting to hear back from someone, so that when they say you can shadow them, you won't have to then wait a few weeks to get the administrative stuff out of the way before the hospital will let you on premises. You might also try volunteering there, while you are at it. Not only will it give you valuable patient contact, but it could lead to more opportunities for shadowing.

Finally, did you say your girlfriend is a nurse? Does she have any physician friends? No one likes to impose, but if she were willing to mention your situation to a friend or two of hers, you might find that they offer to help. Doctors do like to help people, after all.

Also, consider specifically seeking out DO physicians to ask to shadow. If you apply to DO schools, they generally want to see that you have shadowed a DO, while an MD school is not going to care as much which flavor of doctor you shadowed. Then, if you find that you later need a letter from a DO, you can get it easily..

Thank you bringer of the light, which I see as the bringer of knowledge that one seeks, for your input. I'm curious about the reason for real mail versus email, but I gather it was what makes all the difference in this technological age. Also, the going ahead and getting all the "busy" stuff before the actual shadow is great head-up game. That's in addition to the plan to shadow a DO for both schools of practice. I never thought that doctors and surgeons will be willing for Saturday hours. Lastly, thanks to you, I asked my girlfriend immediately to see what to do.

I took a vacation day or 4 to do shadowing. Some hospitals have programs set up to do shadowing, I think you would call the education department of the hospital... it's not that bad, doctors really aren't that terrifying, except surgeons, they can fulfill their reputation as a$sholes...

Thanks you your highness. I have considered taking a day (maybe not 4) to do some shadowing. There is so much I do not know! Honestly, I really want to shadow a surgeon. I think it's funny you would say that. I gather they really do think that they are the "hands of god".

Even though you've been out of school for three years, your alma mater's premedical advisors will still likely help you out in networking someone to shadow. As for working full-time and shadowing: if I did it so can you.

Should I call you Bullwinkle, thank you. I do think I still have a connect in my old school. Maybe I should dust off my phone and give her a call.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

It's really just some. I've worked with some really awesome surgeons, & some really big jerks!!

 

[ThreadStalker]

As mentioned previously, volunteering is a great way to get your foot in the door and show your interest to physicians. Plus, gaining volunteer experience in a hospital or clinic would be very valuable to your future education and to your application. It shows that you want to be there.

Also, there are many specialties that do not keep 9-5, M-F hours. Emergency medicine, hospitalist, some peds... If you volunteer at a hospital in your off time, you'll meet the docs who keep non-bankers hours.

Best of luck!

 

[Promethean]

Why real mail? Sending a real letter is powerful communication. It is harder to dismiss than an email, which can be easily ignored or deleted with a click. It is a physical reminder that the sender is a real person, too. It is something that used to be commonplace, but has become special. Sending a real letter tells the recipient that you are making more of an effort to respectfully gain their attention. You had to create an actual object, pay to send it, take it to a post office or mail box. Hand addressing it also makes it stand out as something made by a person, not a machine, not mass produced, not cheap.

Communication is more than just the words you use. Think about how you would perceive the letter you are sending, if you were the one opening it. Imagine knowing nothing about the person writing to you except what you could deduce from the way that they contacted you and what they had to say. The message you want to send is that you are someone who is worth their time and trouble to help. A concise professional letter printed on quality white or light cream paper, hand signed, and hand addressed tells the recipient that you are someone who puts care into the things that you do, and that you are serious about your request for aid. Begin acting now as the professional that you intend to become, and you will be treated that way by others.

I learned this lesson the hard way a few years back. I was given contact information by a physician friend of mine for one of his colleagues and advised to write to that person for assistance with a career related matter. I sent an email. I never heard back. My friend asked me later if I had gotten in touch with his contact, and I said I'd not received a response. He asked, with dismay, if I had written a real letter or just sent an email, already knowing what the answer must be. His face, when I confirmed it, told me everything that I needed to know. Medicine has a robust culture of professional courtesy and respect that has not been entirely erased by modern tech. We can be very casual in our dealings with one another here, where we are anonymous. But when approaching another professional in a formal capacity, falling back on tradition etiquette will get you very far.

 

[kraskadva]

Why real mail? Sending a real letter is powerful communication. It is harder to dismiss than an email, which can be easily ignored or deleted with a click. It is a physical reminder that the sender is a real person, too. It is something that used to be commonplace, but has become special. Sending a real letter tells the recipient that you are making more of an effort to respectfully gain their attention. You had to create an actual object, pay to send it, take it to a post office or mail box. Hand addressing it also makes it stand out as something made by a person, not a machine, not mass produced, not cheap.

Communication is more than just the words you use. Think about how you would perceive the letter you are sending, if you were the one opening it. Imagine knowing nothing about the person writing to you except what you could deduce from the way that they contacted you and what they had to say. The message you want to send is that you are someone who is worth their time and trouble to help. A concise professional letter printed on quality white or light cream paper, hand signed, and hand addressed tells the recipient that you are someone who puts care into the things that you do, and that you are serious about your request for aid. Begin acting now as the professional that you intend to become, and you will be treated that way by others.

I learned this lesson the hard way a few years back. I was given contact information by a physician friend of mine for one of his colleagues and advised to write to that person for assistance with a career related matter. I sent an email. I never heard back. My friend asked me later if I had gotten in touch with his contact, and I said I'd not received a response. He asked, with dismay, if I had written a real letter or just sent an email, already knowing what the answer must be. His face, when I confirmed it, told me everything that I needed to know. Medicine has a robust culture of professional courtesy and respect that has not been entirely erased by modern tech. We can be very casual in our dealings with one another here, where we are anonymous. But when approaching another professional in a formal capacity, falling back on tradition etiquette will get you very far.

+100

@GhostDoctor
I wrote letters to every doctor I wanted to shadow and every single one at a minimum called me back and spoke with me. The ones I shadowed had my letter sitting on their desk when I first went in to meet them.
The thing about real mail is that it sticks out in this day and age. Emails are essentially useless when trying to contact another professional for the first time, since most of them will be getting dozens to hundreds of emails every day and yours will be shunted to spam or deleted without a second thought. A simple letter though will get past the guardian at the gate who answers the phone and not be caught in the mass of useless electronic communication they have to deal with. It shows up on their desk and allows you to directly address the person who you need to ask for help. Once you have their attention, a polite and ernest letter will do wonders.

A few basic guidelines, since this seems like a novel thing for you:
-Letter no more than 1 page, business format, printed and hand signed
-Address why you are interested in medicine, why you want to shadow them specifically (specialty related perhaps), give contact info and indicate you understand HIPPA (if you don't already, hit up google - essentially to not talk about anything you see there)
-Attach a basic resume (no more than 1 double sided page) to give them some idea of your background and who you are.
-Hand address the envelope, as mentioned above.

Best of luck to you.

 

[GhostDoctor]

Why real mail? Sending a real letter is powerful communication. It is harder to dismiss than an email, which can be easily ignored or deleted with a click. It is a physical reminder that the sender is a real person, too. It is something that used to be commonplace, but has become special. Sending a real letter tells the recipient that you are making more of an effort to respectfully gain their attention. You had to create an actual object, pay to send it, take it to a post office or mail box. Hand addressing it also makes it stand out as something made by a person, not a machine, not mass produced, not cheap.

Communication is more than just the words you use. Think about how you would perceive the letter you are sending, if you were the one opening it. Imagine knowing nothing about the person writing to you except what you could deduce from the way that they contacted you and what they had to say. The message you want to send is that you are someone who is worth their time and trouble to help. A concise professional letter printed on quality white or light cream paper, hand signed, and hand addressed tells the recipient that you are someone who puts care into the things that you do, and that you are serious about your request for aid. Begin acting now as the professional that you intend to become, and you will be treated that way by others.

I learned this lesson the hard way a few years back. I was given contact information by a physician friend of mine for one of his colleagues and advised to write to that person for assistance with a career related matter. I sent an email. I never heard back. My friend asked me later if I had gotten in touch with his contact, and I said I'd not received a response. He asked, with dismay, if I had written a real letter or just sent an email, already knowing what the answer must be. His face, when I confirmed it, told me everything that I needed to know. Medicine has a robust culture of professional courtesy and respect that has not been entirely erased by modern tech. We can be very casual in our dealings with one another here, where we are anonymous. But when approaching another professional in a formal capacity, falling back on tradition etiquette will get you very far.

+100

@GhostDoctor
I wrote letters to every doctor I wanted to shadow and every single one at a minimum called me back and spoke with me. The ones I shadowed had my letter sitting on their desk when I first went in to meet them.
The thing about real mail is that it sticks out in this day and age. Emails are essentially useless when trying to contact another professional for the first time, since most of them will be getting dozens to hundreds of emails every day and yours will be shunted to spam or deleted without a second thought. A simple letter though will get past the guardian at the gate who answers the phone and not be caught in the mass of useless electronic communication they have to deal with. It shows up on their desk and allows you to directly address the person who you need to ask for help. Once you have their attention, a polite and ernest letter will do wonders.

A few basic guidelines, since this seems like a novel thing for you:
-Letter no more than 1 page, business format, printed and hand signed
-Address why you are interested in medicine, why you want to shadow them specifically (specialty related perhaps), give contact info and indicate you understand HIPPA (if you don't already, hit up google - essentially to not talk about anything you see there)
-Attach a basic resume (no more than 1 double sided page) to give them some idea of your background and who you are.
-Hand address the envelope, as mentioned above.

Best of luck to you.

Thank you thank you thank you!!! Without all this info I don't think i would have any confidence going into this part of my med path.

 

[kraskadva]

Thank you thank you thank you!!! Without all this info I don't think i would have any confidence going into this part of my med path.

YW.

If you've never shadowed before here's the basic guidelines for what to do when you're in the office...http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...not-well-connected-etc.1092603/#post-15584124