worried about lack of IVs for PSYCH

[Good Samaritan2]

Hi, hopefully things are going well for everyone during this stressful time.

I am just worried out of my mind since I have yet to get Interviews as of yet, and instead have only gotten about 12 rejections. I did apply a little late, on October 14th with everything. I do have some failures in my step exams as well (1 in step 1, 2 in step 2ck and 1 in step 2cs) so I never expected to get many interviews but not to have a single one so far is frustrating and idk what to do. I am wondering if anyone else is in the same boat or may have an idea of how the whole system works or something. I am going through volunteer service at the moment at a couple hospitals to pass the time.

I am just freaking out and it is basically becoming more and more depressing.

I am applying to psychiatry and did apply broadly as well after doing a lot of research about each program and past information with individual programs and IMGs since I am a FMG.

thank you

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[deleted314290]

I hate to break the news but you have demonstrated a consistent pattern of failure in all portions of the step. Furthermore, you swallowed a grenade by applying late. Unless you have stellar letters of recommendation that can attest to your medical knowledge, professionalism, and commitment, I would assume no chance at any interviews. You are a tremendous risk to any program given your consistent failures and they would pass for other candidates with no/fewer red flags. Your best bet would be to start planning for next year.

 

[Mad Jack]

Your odds aren't good, not gonna lie.

 

[shan564]

I agree with the others that it's looking grim. If I were in your place, I'd start thinking about alternative options.

Since you asked about having an idea of how the system works, put yourself in the position of a PD. The PD's goal is to get the candidates who are at the lowest possible risk of being a low-performing resident. First, IMGs are higher-risk applicants to begin with, since the PD doesn't know for sure that your medical training was comparable to what you'd get here (unless you went to a well-known med school). Second, Step failures make it look like your medical knowledge may be subpar - while this may just mean that you're not a good test taker, most PDs wouldn't want to take that risk. Third, a consistent pattern of Step failures will make a PD worry that you'll also fail Step 3, which would create headaches for them. Fourth, there are lots of other applicants who didn't fail any exams (or at least not multiple times), so it'd be hard for them to justify taking a higher-risk applicant when a lower-risk applicant is available. Fifth, your CS failure will make it look like your clinical skills and/or your English/communication skills might not be great.

So the question you need to ask yourself is whether you can offset some of those factors somehow. You can't change your IMG status or your Step failures. There are some things that you can change:
1. The PD will be concerned that you won't pass Step 3. You can offset that by passing Step 3 ASAP, although it's a bit late in the game for that.
2. The PD will be concerned that your medical knowledge is subpar. You could offset that by getting a great score on Step 3, although I suspect that it'd be hard to do that considering your poor performance on Step 2.
3. The PD will be concerned about your communication skills (given IMG status and CS failure). You can offset that by trying to do a visiting rotation at a program and proving that you have those skills (assuming that you do).
4. The PD will not really want to take an applicant with low scores/multiple failures over an applicant with higher scores and/or no failures. You could offset that by showing that there is something else that is exceptional about you, assuming that such a thing exists.

Each of those 4 things assumes that your poor performance on the exams is not representative of your actual knowledge/skills. When somebody has 4 separate failures on 3 separate exams, it's generally more likely that their medical knowledge is subpar. If that's the case, it might be time to reassess some of your goals.

 

[J ROD]

Time for Plan B and not the morning after pill...........

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

and you applied to psychiatry because why?

 

[Kaszanka]

and you applied to psychiatry because why?

Probably because it's "The easiest to get into". This is pretty standard for IMGs, regardless of their scores. It is rather irritating to those of us IMGs who are genuinely interested in psychiatry. I am a pretty middle of the road applicant and I fear I am losing interview spots to IMGs with more impressive CVs and scores who have no actual interest in psychiatry.

 

[Good Samaritan2]

Probably because it's "The easiest to get into". This is pretty standard for IMGs, regardless of their scores. It is rather irritating to those of us IMGs who are genuinely interested in psychiatry. I am a pretty middle of the road applicant and I fear I am losing interview spots to IMGs with more impressive CVs and scores who have no actual interest in psychiatry.

I am actually one of those who is genuinley interested in Psych actually. It has been that way since my undergrad years. I keep up with the new DSM 5 and advancements as well as working with psychiatrists as a volunteer. It is not because of the 'easiest to get into' mantra at all. This is something I have loved since undergrad junior year and have had countless arguments with my parents over the past few years since it is something i really want to go into and obviously my parents didn't agree.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Hi, hopefully things are going well for everyone during this stressful time.

I am just worried out of my mind since I have yet to get Interviews as of yet, and instead have only gotten about 12 rejections. I did apply a little late, on October 14th with everything. I do have some failures in my step exams as well (1 in step 1, 2 in step 2ck and 1 in step 2cs) so I never expected to get many interviews but not to have a single one so far is frustrating and idk what to do. I am wondering if anyone else is in the same boat or may have an idea of how the whole system works or something. I am going through volunteer service at the moment at a couple hospitals to pass the time.

I am just freaking out and it is basically becoming more and more depressing.

I am applying to psychiatry and did apply broadly as well after doing a lot of research about each program and past information with individual programs and IMGs since I am a FMG.

thank you

What was your med school application exam score out of curiosity? (your MCAT equivalent in your country)

There's a reason med school require certain cutoffs for these tests as a vetting tool, to help prevent these kinds of predicaments. In the USA, there's a correlation between MCAT and Step performance.

 

[J ROD]

Probably because it's "The easiest to get into". This is pretty standard for IMGs, regardless of their scores. It is rather irritating to those of us IMGs who are genuinely interested in psychiatry. I am a pretty middle of the road applicant and I fear I am losing interview spots to IMGs with more impressive CVs and scores who have no actual interest in psychiatry.

From what I have heard from programs I have called, it is not the easiest anymore.........

Several told me last year I would have been invited for an interview but it was more competitive this year. They had more than double the apps and stronger numbers overall.

So, I shall take my 6 out of 14 I was interested in and play the game and dance the dance.

 

[splik]

it must be very frustrating and demoralizing. I have to hand it to you, you must have tremendous fortitude to have battled on as you did after failing exams etc and found the resolve to keep going. Unfortunately, sometimes it is better to call it a day. You have next to no chance of matching into a psychiatry residency program (or any other specialty. I would absolutely not encourage you to take step 3 as you would almost certainly fail. You barely passed step 1 on retake, failed step 2 twice (and didn't mention what your passing score was), but the CS failure is really the kiss of death. I am also assuming it has taken you longer to complete medical school Even if you did get an interview you wouldn't match. In a way its better not to get the false hope of an interview.

So now you need to decide whether you can afford to continue throwing money at this or figure out what you want to do with your life that does not involve residency training. I am sorry that no one told you before that you have little to no chance of getting a residency training in the US.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

So now you need to decide whether you can afford to continue throwing money at this or figure out what you want to do with your life that does not involve residency training. I am sorry that no one told you before that you have little to no chance of getting a residency training in the US.

Actually, I kind of wish that every student matriculating at a Caribbean medical school would have to sign some kind of Informed Consent document before they plop down their $200 grand--detailing their actual likelihood of matching in each specialty, what the first time pass rate is on each step, and how many of their grads remain unmatched after the first two cycles post-graduation.

 

[W19]

@Good Samaritan2

Like other already said, get ready for plan B...

I will suggest a plan B:

You can use the Puerto Rican loophole if you speak Spanish (you don't need to be fluent)... Basically, you can do a 1-2 year non AGCME internship and there will be a handful of US states that will give you a license (general practitioner)... I have a friend from one of the Carib school who did that after failing to match twice... It has worked out well for him since he got a good job right now in the state with that GP license...

 

[shan564]

Actually, I kind of wish that every student matriculating at a Caribbean medical school would have to sign some kind of Informed Consent document before they plop down their $200 grand--detailing their actual likelihood of matching in each specialty, what the first time pass rate is on each step, and how many of their grads remain unmatched after the first two cycles post-graduation.

This, times several order of magnitude. Many of the Carib schools are intentionally deceptive about their match rates - they mention some high match rate among their graduates, but they don't mention that they make it hard for you to graduate if you don't have really high scores on their pre-USMLE exams. I grew up in community made up primarily of a cultural group in which going into medicine is highly valued, so I know a lot of people who go to the Caribbean with unrealistic expectations - they end up spending a lot of tuition money and often aren't able to meet the program's strict graduation requirements... or end up failing the Steps multiple times because nobody screened them out to make sure that they'd be capable of passing. I think it's borderline fraud - they never say anything that's clearly false, but it's intentionally misleading. Definitely doesn't meet the standards for informed consent that are accepted in our field.

 

[teetotaler14]

Here is another possible "plan B" for the OP if a residency match proves to be unrealistic:

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.or...mary-care-shortage-with-assistant-physicians/