Worried about Pharmacy Profession

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wreckhavok

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I am currently a pre-pharmacy student but I am worried about what everyone has been saying about pharmacy. I constantly hear how saturated and how difficult it is to obtain a job in the field. Pharmacy happens to be the only heathcare profession that piques my interest. However, I do not want to constantly worry about my job security. My aim is to not work in retail (I am not even interested in retail) but rather complete residency to specialize (I am especially interested in psychiatric pharmacy). If I specialize in pharmacy, will I have more job security or is pharmacy in a hospital setting also saturated? Is it difficult/competitive to complete residency and specialize in pharmacy given the lack of job security in retail pharmacy?

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If you specialize, you will have more job security, but residencies are very competitive to land, and even some areas are saturated with PGY1's who have to resort to staffing positions or even retail. Keep in mind that about 65-70% of all pharmacist jobs are in retail.
 
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I am currently a pre-pharmacy student but I am worried about what everyone has been saying about pharmacy. I constantly hear how saturated and how difficult it is to obtain a job in the field. Pharmacy happens to be the only heathcare profession that piques my interest. However, I do not want to constantly worry about my job security. My aim is to not work in retail (I am not even interested in retail) but rather complete residency to specialize (I am especially interested in psychiatric pharmacy). If I specialize in pharmacy, will I have more job security or is pharmacy in a hospital setting also saturated? Is it difficult/competitive to complete residency and specialize in pharmacy given the lack of job security in retail pharmacy?

I think you will be fine. You are still early in the process. Just try to make sure you differentiate yourself when you get into pharmacy school and do rotations that are align with your area you are trying to get into. If you can differentiate yourself from your classmates, you should be able to land a specialized residency and get into your area of specialize and have good job security.
 
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Let me tell you what I have seen. Started pharmacy school in 2010, prior to that I could find a massive amount of job postings in any city in any state you name it. Hundreds of open positions....everywhere. After first year got an intern position with the pharmacy I lovingly refer to as "the devil" and worked there for three years never calling off once or coming in late once. Worked 23 hours a week and at the end they didn't offer me a spot....hustled my butt off and got an offer a short move away in a state with more demand than my super saturated state.

Moved after graduation and started working as a pharmacist....even in this other state that had more open positions I could feel the market was getting tighter month by month. How do I know this? I have been consistently monitoring the job boards since about my second year in pharmacy school. I was in the beginning signed up with hot Jobs, career builder, and monster....then indeed. Since the first month of my final year in pharmacy school I have also been signed up to receive recent job postings for Target, Walmart, CVS,Walgreen's and about five more local grocery stores who are employers of pharmacists. The drastic change in the number of postings for pharmacists in both my super saturated state along with the decrease in pharmacist postings in my new state is amazing and scary even to me.

Additionally I have monitored job postings in three warm weather states I am interested in possibly moving to. Nowadays you can't even find more than 1 or 2 postings for a CVS pharmacist whereas two years ago I counted 27. The job postings I see listed on Indeed now are for clinical positions all requiring residencies, of which most prefer PGY2s so I would bet that in another year or two those will even all be full up with excess PGY2s. I see the market dry up in many other ways as well. Many of my automated job searches now return more new positions for pharmacy technicians then for pharmacists. I get a once to twice a month email from Kroger that use to be full of pharmacy positions in so many different parts of the country.. This was in 2012. Even the year I graduated I would get their email and it listed a few less desirable areas to work. Now the last four months worth of emails have not had a single pharmacist opening listed...each email has had 5 to 15 listings for open pharmacy technician positions. I can't even imagine how bad it will be in the next five to ten years. I am worried that when I finally have the ability to move to one of those warm weather states the market will be so tight that even moving will not be an option anymore.
 
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Run from pharmacy if you still can. A lot of the bright high hoped students in my class who wanted to do a residency and stuff are now slaving away at cvs/wags/walmart/rite aid. Computer engineering makes far more money!
 
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I am currently a pre-pharmacy student but I am worried about what everyone has been saying about pharmacy. I constantly hear how saturated and how difficult it is to obtain a job in the field. Pharmacy happens to be the only heathcare profession that piques my interest. However, I do not want to constantly worry about my job security. My aim is to not work in retail (I am not even interested in retail) but rather complete residency to specialize (I am especially interested in psychiatric pharmacy).
Pull up a chair and take a seat. You're in good company.

I think you will be fine. You are still early in the process. Just try to make sure you differentiate yourself when you get into pharmacy school and do rotations that are align with your area you are trying to get into. If you can differentiate yourself from your classmates, you should be able to land a specialized residency and get into your area of specialize and have good job security.
What does it mean to differentiate? What if everyone tries to differentiate themselves the same way?
 
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I am currently a pre-pharmacy student but I am worried about what everyone has been saying about pharmacy. I constantly hear how saturated and how difficult it is to obtain a job in the field. Pharmacy happens to be the only heathcare profession that piques my interest. However, I do not want to constantly worry about my job security. My aim is to not work in retail (I am not even interested in retail) but rather complete residency to specialize (I am especially interested in psychiatric pharmacy). If I specialize in pharmacy, will I have more job security or is pharmacy in a hospital setting also saturated? Is it difficult/competitive to complete residency and specialize in pharmacy given the lack of job security in retail pharmacy?

Specialized positions probably have more security, but who knows how the market will be in 5 or 10 years. I wouldn't recommend pursuing a career in pharmacy unless you're absolutely sure you would be a pharmacist for 1/2 the current salary.
 
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if you're in it for the money there are way easier route for a lot less headache, and if you really want to go into clinical pharmacy you need to shadow a clinical specialist, its not always roses like they say in school. It's a rewarding job but its definitely not for everyone and anyone.
 
I would advise you not to pursue pharmacy if you are not interested in retail. Getting a residency these days are so competitive and theres no way of knowing whether you will cut it in terms of academics + extracurriculars + internship. I am in my final year of pharmacy school and have seen many upperclassmen not land residencies. There are also people in my class that are barely keeping afloat in class and want a residency. Their GPAs are abysmal and I suspect they won't be granted many interviews come time. The majority of jobs are in retail so don't pursue pharmacy unless you are content with working retail
 
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This profession is not what it used to be. I would only advise in pursuing this career if pharmacy is your passion. Retail is still the bread and butter of pharmacy and that's where most of the jobs are. Clinical positions are really not truly clinical and many people who do residencies find themselves underemployed/unemployed: there aren't that many jobs and way too many residencies. There are not enough jobs at the retail level let alone the "clinical" positions.
 
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I'm a P4, so not a pharmacist yet but I have friends who graduated this May and last year, they all had little trouble finding jobs and got residencies. However, you aren't going to get a car/fat check sign on unless you go to a rural area it seems.

There are jobs out there, I scan job markets for cities roughly once a week. Some cities are saturated where there are little to no retail jobs. There seems to be a lot of clinical jobs but clinical pharmacy typically pays less and they all want residencies. There are still jobs out there, and in cities as well but you may need to relocate. That's just what I've seen on my preliminary job search/decision making. Clinical pharmacy seems to be very varied and dependent on the state and state laws. Some clinical positions I've seen range only to calculating TPN's, doing dosing on vanc/aminoglycosides, helping set up policies and being a general information source. Others I've seen more "clinical" with the pharmacist prescribing, managing chronic conditions and seeing patients using more to the extent of their training. Some places it's great, others it seems lackluster. I think there is a lot of variation in clinical pharmacy with it still being a developing field.
 
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Pull up a chair and take a seat. You're in good company.

What does it mean to differentiate? What if everyone tries to differentiate themselves the same way?

...and that's why you need to differentiate yourself differently from other people :)
 
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Honestly I think if your going to do 2 years of residency to specialize, your crazy to not just go to medical school and become a PCP.
 
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...and that's why you need to differentiate yourself differently from other people :)


I really wish someone would explain to me what "differentiate yourself" means. Everyone is pretty much on same level. Maybe some get an internship in hospital or setting that they want to stay in. But what does differentiate yourself mean? Should they dye their hair orange or get piercings? Shoud they base jump off of their dorm room?
 
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I really wish someone would explain to me what "differentiate yourself" means. Everyone is pretty much on same level. Maybe some get an internship in hospital or setting that they want to stay in. But what does differentiate yourself mean? Should they dye their hair orange or get piercings? Shoud they base jump off of their dorm room?

Just a stupid saying that people constantly repeat despite not knowing what it really means. Everyone wants to "differentiate" themselves. The fact is you will be facing stiff competition regardless of where you look, simply because there are so many pharmacists graduating.
 
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...and that's why you need to differentiate yourself differently from other people :)

I really wish someone would explain to me what "differentiate yourself" means. Everyone is pretty much on same level. Maybe some get an internship in hospital or setting that they want to stay in. But what does differentiate yourself mean? Should they dye their hair orange or get piercings? Shoud they base jump off of their dorm room?

How will they differently differentiate themselves differently from the other people who are also trying to differentiate themselves differently? Verbal gymnastics aside, it just seems like a buzzword that only the people who are already differentiating themselves really understand - kind of like "networking"
 
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How will they differently differentiate themselves differently from the other people who are also trying to differentiate themselves differently? Verbal gymnastics aside, it just seems like a buzzword that only the people who are already differentiating themselves really understand - kind of like "networking"

So having an internship somewhere and try to do a good job and getting to know the people there in hopes of being hired afterwards. As an intern you can only really "differentiate yourself" where you are working since your only in your job/area a short period of time. I still think dyeing your hair orange would do it or put those round spacer things in your earlobes so they have big holes in them also would work and people would remember you. Just sayin...
 
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I shouldn't have to differentiate myself to stand out. I am special and different already. I deserve credit and recognition for showing up and passing my classes and rotations.
 
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How will they differently differentiate themselves differently from the other people who are also trying to differentiate themselves differently? Verbal gymnastics aside, it just seems like a buzzword that only the people who are already differentiating themselves really understand - kind of like "networking"

I think you are exactly right. The real key is to differentiate yourself differently from other people who are also trying to differentiate themselves differently. Be creative about how to do this differently. If you are successful at doing this differently, employers will see you different than others who only try to be different because you are differentiated...
 
I shouldn't have to differentiate myself to stand out. I am special and different already. I deserve credit and recognition for showing up and passing my classes and rotations.

I like your attitude! I think more people in pharmacy need to realize this. Kudos to you!
 
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You know you are in trouble when you hear people throw around buzz words like "networking" and "differentiate yourself". This basically means the job market is saturated and not everyone will find work.

I hate to tell you this but do you know who will "network"? The same popular kids in high school. They have the outgoing personality, the good looks and smarts. People want to be around them. People want to help them. People will come to them. That is basically "networking". They are selling themselves by just being themselves.

So go on and tell yourself you have the same shot as everyone else just as long as you "network".
 
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You know you are in trouble when you hear people throw around buzz words like "networking" and "differentiate yourself". This basically means the job market is saturated and not everyone will find work.

I hate to tell you this but do you know who will "network"? The same popular kids in high school. They have the outgoing personality, the good looks and smarts. People want to be around them. People want to help them. People will come to them. That is basically "networking". They are selling themselves by just being themselves.

So go on and tell yourself you have the same shot as everyone else just as long as you "network".

Another good piece of advice? Know the person in charge of hiring decisions. Be life-long best friends with the director of pharmacy.
 
Honestly get some plastic surgery and get in a gym.
 
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Honestly I think if your going to do 2 years of residency to specialize, your crazy to not just go to medical school and become a PCP.

Seriously. Even PAs and NPs are higher up on the food chain than the pharmacist.
 
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Hospital jobs are more saturated, usually require a residency/clinical experience, and on top of that generally pay less (sometimes very significantly less).

Retail jobs are sweat shops

Enjoy
 
I think you will be fine. You are still early in the process. Just try to make sure you differentiate yourself when you get into pharmacy school and do rotations that are align with your area you are trying to get into. If you can differentiate yourself from your classmates, you should be able to land a specialized residency and get into your area of specialize and have good job security.

Um yeah, like everyone else said, there is no "differentiating" yourself, that sounds like something your college told you that has no truth in reality.

OP, I would not recommend going into pharmacy unless you would be content working retail, because statistically, you will end up working retail. Even if you do a residency. Because there are more far, FAR more residency trained pharmacists, then there are clinical jobs.
 
One thing I had wished I had done in pharmacy school was a research project, join clubs and participate in them, and make sure your professors remember you.
I currently have a hospital job in a small town outside a large city. I had to do my time in retail for the big man for two years though. I will say that we had an evening position open full-time/benefits and had three people apply. Two only wanted to work prn and were older with more experience; the other was a new grad who was an awful interviewer. We had to go with hiring two prn's. Remember what you do on rotations people and get some really good interview skills!
 
Even without the saturation issues, pharmacy (in particular independents) is completely screwed already thanks to the PBM reimbursement squeeze. There is NO hope for independents (and even some large chains, i.e. Target, lol) without massive PBM reform.

To all of you future pharmacists, let me ask you a very simple question. How in the h#ll are you going to operate a pharmacy profitably on an average 3.00 margin. Please do the math (factor in pharmacist salary, tech salary, benefits, rent, overhead etc) Ive done it and the ONLY answer is to SLASH the pharmacist salary. How many scripts can 1 pharm and 3 tech reasonably do in an 8 hour period? 250? 400 with a robot? Even if you assume its 400, you got $1,200 dollars net profit to play with.

For those of you who say a 3.00 margin is impossibly low and will never happen, consider already that on some plans that I take (Cigna, Humana, ESI) the reimbursement has essentially come down to MAC (which means your Acq. Cost) + an absurdly low Dispensing fee (just got a contract reinstatement letter for MAC + 0.45 Disp Fee, and AWP minus 18.5 plus 0.45)

On my Cigna claims, I make 1.54 profit margin/rx averaged over 1,200 scripts Year to Date.

What do the PBMs say about it? "If you don't like the payment terms, don't sign the contract". They couldn't give 2 f*cks whether or not you are in their network. In many cases, they collect even larger margins on rxs themselves vs what the actual pharmacy gets (the spread between what the PBM pays the pharmacy , usually MAC, vs what the PBM bills the plan sponsor, usually AWP minus a percentage). What kind of service is the PBM providing to justify this? The plan sponsors are taking it up the butt just as much as the pharmacies are, however the lack of PBM transparency makes it very easy for PBMs to hide this spread. This comes on top of collecting fee per prescription.

Has anyone else seen the latest (and in my mind, the most outrageous) PBM tactic involving charging the full copay to the patient (lets say its 8.00 for generic), yet reimbursing the pharmacy at MAC price (might be 2 or 3 dollars depending on the drug) and pocketing the difference in the form of a NEGATIVE third party reimbursement? That's right. I collect the patient copay of 8.00, then turn around and hand 5 of that straight over to the PBM. All the while, the patient is completely clueless about this, as in his/her mind they just paid 8.00 for the prescription, without realizing that they actually paid 3 dollars for the prescription and paid 5 to OptumRX. This disgusting practice can only be classified as nothing more than pure, unadulterated, corporate greed. The PBMs have you by the balls and they know that there is not a d#mn thing you can do about it.

How about back-end DIR fees? Look this up if you don't know about it. CVS Caremark's Silverscript plan charges a 3% DIR Fee on ALL brand claims, effectively erasing the small profit that the pharmacy made. On a 300 dollar brand name medication, you may appear to make a 12 dollar profit, only to have 9 dollars stolen back in the form of a DIR fee. Thankfully this practice should be coming to an end in 2016, however that only means that the discount off AWP will become even greater. Its all a huge scam.

So what does the future hold? Its is completely and utterly doomed. I see no realistic way to change this. The PBMs are too powerful. The only silver lining is that if enough prospective pharmacists do their due diligence and study the outlook of the profession first, and realize that the profession is dying, and then stay the H#LL away from pharmacy school, the forecasted pharmacist surplus might not become as dire as it looks now.

As I see it, in 10 years I expect the average retail pharmacist pay to be somewhere around 60K, even after adjusting for inflation.

Of course with retail salaries this low, others will follow or go even lower, since salaries are always "market based". This includes the Sellout PharmD's working for PBMs who are ultimately shooting themselves in the foot, along with the rest of the profession which they obviously loathe.

Wake up people.
 
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It doesn't matter. You think anyone wants to be a CVS pharmacist. You do it for the money!
 
It doesn't matter. You think anyone wants to be a CVS pharmacist. You do it for the money!

Ok, that makes no sense then. Obviously, the people that go on to do extra training aren't doing it for the money so your argument to become a PCP because of the money isn't really valid then?
 
If you specialize, you will have more job security.

I disagree, the more one specializes, the fewer jobs available for that skill set, and the highly specialized jobs are the first jobs cut.

Reality is, its a bad economy. There is no job security for anyone. Still, there are definitely better career options, and at the present, pharmacy is one of them. The majority of pharmacists *are* working, and they are working at a salary far above the average. Will it stay that way? Is it worth taking on hundreds of thousands of debt for, if job prospects decrease?
 
This profession is not what it used to be. I would only advise in pursuing this career if pharmacy is your passion. Retail is still the bread and butter of pharmacy and that's where most of the jobs are. Clinical positions are really not truly clinical and many people who do residencies find themselves underemployed/unemployed: there aren't that many jobs and way too many residencies. There are not enough jobs at the retail level let alone the "clinical" positions.

Wait until retail pharmacy residency becomes commonplace ---> mandatory.
 
This profession is not what it used to be. I would only advise in pursuing this career if pharmacy is your passion. Retail is still the bread and butter of pharmacy and that's where most of the jobs are. Clinical positions are really not truly clinical and many people who do residencies find themselves underemployed/unemployed: there aren't that many jobs and way too many residencies. There are not enough jobs at the retail level let alone the "clinical" positions.

What's your definition of clinical exactly?
 
I dropped Pharmacy school in 2012 solely because of the saturated field issue(s).

I have no idea how it looks now, though. Probably not good.
 
Currently, I would say pharmacy is a bad career choice. By the time you get accepted and then graduate, the job market for this profession will all dried up. My advice, DON'T do it. Best of luck.
 
Currently, I would say pharmacy is a bad career choice. By the time you get accepted and then graduate, the job market for this profession will all dried up. My advice, DON'T do it. Best of luck.

I do not agree with this. Pharmacy is still a very good career choice relative to many other careers. The key is to be able to differentiate yourself from your peers and make sure you can bring value in a way that is different that others and to also network and you will be fine. Good luck!
 
Currently, I would say pharmacy is a bad career choice. By the time you get accepted and then graduate, the job market for this profession will all dried up. My advice, DON'T do it. Best of luck.
I have two friends graduated this year and they had no trouble finding jobs in south FL and they told me all of their friends in pharm school were able to find jobs... I think things were probably so good 8+ years ago and once they start getting bad, it's natural for people to complain... If you visited other forum in this website, you will see, for instance, OT/PT/AuD dropping 15ok on their degree with a salary prospect of 65-75k/year. Heck! vet students are spending 40k+/year in tuition alone knowing that their first offer will be in the 70k/year... Private dental school tuition now is outrageous and general dentists don't fare that much better than pharmacists on their first job offer... Physicians are complaining about their jobs too except a few specialties like EM. EM is probably the bright spot in medicine now because there aren't that many jobs in the medical field that one can make 350k+/year working 35 hrs/wk on average, but some EM docs still complain about their unpredictable schedule... My point is everyone can find something about their job they hate...
 
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i wish these complaints on SDN about pharmacy were false, but i myself was looking for an intern job within 30 mins of driving from my home as well as the pharmacies near my campus, and NONE of them was hiring! and these days, no intern job = no career.

i'm switching to medicine this year bc i cannot love pharmacy; all i learned was drugs, and even though i learned about diseases and even triage, it's a waste bc pharmacists never get to use those knowledge...
 
i wish these complaints on SDN about pharmacy were false, but i myself was looking for an intern job within 30 mins of driving from my home as well as the pharmacies near my campus, and NONE of them was hiring! and these days, no intern job = no career.

i'm switching to medicine this year bc i cannot love pharmacy; all i learned was drugs and drugs, and even though i learned about diseases and even triage, it's a waste bc pharmacists never get to use those knowledge...


I'm always looking for interns. But good interns that want to work more than one weekend a month. Not saying this is you but the vast majority of interns I get applying are looking for no more than every other weekend.

I certainly understand wanting that but it doesn't work for me.
 
i wish these complaints on SDN about pharmacy were false, but i myself was looking for an intern job within 30 mins of driving from my home as well as the pharmacies near my campus, and NONE of them was hiring! and these days, no intern job = no career.

i'm switching to medicine this year bc i cannot love pharmacy; all i learned was drugs, and even though i learned about diseases and even triage, it's a waste bc pharmacists never get to use those knowledge...
I am not a pharmacist, but I think the ones that work in major hospitals probably use their medical knowledge...
 
I have two friends graduated this year and they had no trouble finding jobs in south FL and they told me all of their friends in pharm school were able to find jobs... I think things were probably so good 8+ years ago and once they start getting bad, it's natural for people to complain... If you visited other forum in this website, you will see, for instance, OT/PT/AuD dropping 15ok on their degree with a salary prospect of 65-75k/year. Heck! vet students are spending 40k+/year in tuition alone knowing that their first offer will be in the 70k/year... Private dental school tuition now is outrageous and general dentists don't fare that much better than pharmacists on their first job offer... Physicians are complaining about their jobs too except a few specialties like EM. EM is probably the bright spot in medicine now because there aren't that many jobs in the medical field that one can make 350k+/year working 35 hrs/wk on average, but some EM docs still complain about their unpredictable schedule... My point is everyone can find something about their job they hate...
What's your take on the medical doctors who claim they get paid less than teachers? I haven't run the numbers yet, but I can smell BS a mile away...
 
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i wish these complaints on SDN about pharmacy were false, but i myself was looking for an intern job within 30 mins of driving from my home as well as the pharmacies near my campus, and NONE of them was hiring! and these days, no intern job = no career.

i'm switching to medicine this year bc i cannot love pharmacy; all i learned was drugs, and even though i learned about diseases and even triage, it's a waste bc pharmacists never get to use those knowledge...

NVM.
 
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What's your take on the medical doctors who claim they get paid less than teachers? I haven't run the numbers yet, but I can smell BS a mile away...
I have not run the number either but I think it's BS... How many rich teachers do you? Probably none... How many rich doctors do you know?

Lets run the numbers:

Teacher: (65k/year)x(43 working years) ~ 2.8 mil ... I am being very generous because I think teachers average salary is lower than 65k/year...

FM physician: (180k)x(35) = 6.3 mil

The difference is 3.5 mil... I understand there are other variables in play such as student loan, opportunity cost, compound interest etc..., but there is no way a teacher can make up that difference...

My cousin has been a practicing internist for 16 year now... I can say that he is a multimillionaire asset-wise...
 
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Some teachers get up well past 65K tho.

Maybe they were going based on hours worked? Since teachers get a lot of vacation/time off?
That's why I used average... My cousin made over 300k in 2011 as an internist, but I am sure most internists don't make that much...
 
I havent heard this- link me?

Deceptive salary of doctors:
http://www.bestmedicaldegrees.com/salary-of-doctors/

That is also the reason I keep pushing software engineering over most healthcare careers. You start at $60-105k base, and with the opportunity time cost required to go into medicine/pharmacy, you can grow it to the mid six-figure range and have a net worth of +$150-300k instead of -$150-300k.
 
I highly highly highly doubt physicians and surgeons are behind teachers in pay... I know of a few primary care guys who said after fees, malpractice, loans, etc that they have come out below their PA's in net money but that's a rarity.

You don't see teachers living in mansions or driving nice cars for the most part. Also, I don't see many teachers earning near 70k a year either.
 
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