Worst medical school in the United States?

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It was. I was thoroughly creeped out. I come from a conservative family as well, but conservative in the sense that we didn't openly talk about sex. That was private stuff. Openly discussing the integrity of your hymen with your father in front of hundreds of strangers is so, so weird.

Plus, most studies show that youths who take pledges are more likely to have sex earlier. They just have a lot more guilt about it and lifelong lasting sexual dysfunction.

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Called it!

If you are interested in learning more about that craziness I watched a documentary about it called The Purity Myth. Fascinating and horrifying at the a a me time.
 
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Think about it: so many great minds are damaged by unrestraint once they are finally "free" from parental guidance, eventually leading to slavery to these damaging vices. Therefore, I see nothing wrong with a private institution setting code of conduct that forbids certain activities. If you don't agree with it, know there are those who like that kind of environment. At med school cheating is forbidden as well as drug use. Should school administrators not care about these activities?
lol. wow...

regarding cheating and drugs, please don't equate them with extramarital sex, r-rated movies homosexuality, and anything else the liberty types ban. even if you didn't mean to do so intentionally, you are still drawing the parallel and it's pretty offensive.

I don't think it is right to monitor such activity by making surprise visits, but I don't see any drawback from asking students to focus on school instead of wasting their freedom by exploring smoking, binge drinking, and being promiscuous.

Therefore, I applaud universities that encourages a code of conduct that helps create an environment that is family friendly and conducive to academic learning.
again, lol. wow. there's just a lot of chewy goodness here. bit of a slippery slope here, to say the ridiculous honor code is the only thing that's keeping these poor saps from spiraling down the terrible horrors of smoking, alcoholism, and promiscuity (again, you equating alcohol consumption and extramarital (read: regular people) sex to binge drinking and promiscuity is again offensive)

the code of conduct doesn't help create an environment that's family friendly or conducive to learning, it's meant to create an environment of repression
 
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the code of conduct doesn't help create an environment that's family friendly or conducive to learning, it's meant to create an environment of repression

Quote of the day.

My undergrad had an honor code, but it was mostly concerned with academic matters and was maintained by the student government. Edicts from a religious-nut with no input from the study body does not a supportive educational environment make. LA1004's constant conflation of moral depravity and lifestyles different from his/her own is a product of such an environment.
 
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I don't know if LA realizes how judgements his/her posts come across as. Which is why I thought they were joking.

I don't think binge drinking, having sex, or smoking weed makes you a bad person, but that is the value statement you are putting out there.
 
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I find the lack of tolerance in this thread, particularly from people who would likely identify themselves as being proponents of choice, acceptance and social justice, disturbing.

The one thing that seems to be getting overlooked with regard to LUCOM's honor code is that attendance there is 100% voluntary. Tolerance needs to be a two way street people.
 
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I find the lack of tolerance in this thread, particularly from people who would likely identify themselves as being proponents of choice, acceptance and social justice, disturbing.

The one thing that seems to be getting overlooked with regard to LUCOM's honor code is that attendance there is 100% voluntary. Tolerance needs to be a two way street people.
I don't tolerate creationism in science class and neither should anyone else of sound mind. This was the primary discussion at hand, the lifestyle kookiness is really an ancillary conversation. In an era where Jenny McCarthy can successfully wage a direct assault on what is arguably the greatest medical advance in history, universities that hold anti-scientific beliefs opening up medical schools is eyebrow-raising. I think it's a fair concern.

Going back to the (again, ancillary) discussion regarding the lifestyle issues and tolerance, "purity pledges" and the like have only been shown to increase teen pregnancy and is a both moral and legal hazard as well as a public health issue. The purity ball described above frankly is incredibly disturbing on a multiple different levels, purely psychiatrically speaking. Lastly, it's not so much the code itself, it's the offensive judgmental attitude insinuated by its proponents.
 
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I believe that purity balls and the like are oppressive to women (see the distinct lack of emphasis on men's sexual purity and the ownership of a woman's sexuality by her father is just a set up for abuse IMO)

They also are unwise given the fact that teen who pledge their virginities are more likely to have risker sex later in life because they lack the knowledge to protect themselves.

So no, I don't tolerate oppression.
 
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There is a difference between tolerance and identifying a problematic situation. The honor code is problematic since it's indicative of a system that prizes blind adherence over personal development and stems from a moral base that is divorced from reality. While the students are free to adhere or not, I did not volunteer to have a clod of condescending, judgmental physicians polluting my peer group. Students trained by a system which prizes sexual purity over scientific integrity cannot contribute meaningfully to a field already burdened by combating basic science illiteracy in the general population.
 
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There is a difference between tolerance and identifying a problematic situation. The honor code is problematic since it's indicative of a system that prizes blind adherence over personal development and stems from a moral base that is divorced from reality. While the students are free to adhere or not, I did not volunteer to have a clod of condescending, judgmental physicians polluting my peer group. Students trained by a system which prizes sexual purity over scientific integrity cannot contribute meaningfully to a field already burdened by combating basic science illiteracy in the general population.
prepare to be disappointed.. =/

to play devil's advocate, i suppose extreme evangelicals need doctors too, and someone from their peer group may be in a better position to serve their needs
 
Just to clarify, honor codes mean jack to you. Like I explained previously, there are those - such as myself - who appreciates an honor code for students. You and others may not, and that's fine. But everywhere we are employed we are expected to follow "codes of conduct", so it was good to learn at 19 to follow rules even when no one is watching.
Sure there are those who break the rules, that is why it is called "the honor code". You are on your own honor. If you are found breaking the rules, then you are disciplined.

If you're "on your honor" then why the external punishment? That's a code of CONDUCT not a code of HONOR. It's a set of external rules imposed upon students by an outside governing body.

I'm all in favor of a code of honor. One that encourages students to determine their own values, articulate them, and live by them. Values such as honesty, integrity, kindness, responsibility. Pre-marital sex between consenting adults in an honest relationship doesn't violate that code in any way. Nor does engaging in legal behavior (drinking) within limits that don't infringe upon others' rights (excessive noise, driving under influence).

IMO, people who need 'other peoples rules' to live by are lacking a clear internal moral compass of their own to guide them.
 
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prepare to be disappointed.. =/

to play devil's advocate, i suppose extreme evangelicals need doctors too, and someone from their peer group may be in a better position to serve their needs

I mean, yes, there are gobs of judgmental medical students, residents and physicians. But of this caliber? and do we need a pipeline for the worst? possibly too harsh, since there may be perfectly decent students at LUCOM, but I think this school will leak in personalities and worldviews I'd rather not see well-represented in a profession that's allegedly about serving the general population with all its flaws and supposed to be based in science and compassion.
 
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I don't think binge drinking, having sex, or smoking weed makes you a bad person, but that is the value statement you are putting out there.

Why do people always jump on the idea that if you don't look favorably on a behavior it automatically means you think everyone that engages in those behaviors is a bad person? What does a bad person even mean? Do people really think that the world is divided up into good and bad people?

Some people think that eating meat is detestable. I disagree. If there was a Vegan Medical School that had an honor code to abstain from all animal produced food I would not go. I know there are people in the world that would love to be in a location with people who share similar values and may be drawn to that school. Good for them I guess.

DrCharlemagne said:
I mean, yes, there are gobs of judgmental medical students, residents and physicians. But of this caliber? and do we need a pipeline for the worst? possibly too harsh, since there may be perfectly decent students at LUCOM, but I think this school will leak in personalities and worldviews I'd rather not see well-represented in a profession that's allegedly about serving the general population with all its flaws and supposed to be based in science and compassion.

Maybe you can take some small comfort in thinking that LUCOM will draw away more of the undesirables from attending your medical school.
 
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The majority of people reading this website are gonna have a fundamental ignorance when it comes to places like
places like Liberty.
The southern baptist religion is completely obsessed with sex. It truly is creepy how it permeates their every thought. The entire religion is basically founded around it. They are taught that their natural desires are evil
Such as yourself? You obviously have a very limited amount of experience around Southern Baptists. There is a lot wrong with some of their ideas including moderately to heavy anti science sentiment, [mostly]anti gay marriage, fixating on tiny, unimportant biblical points and a tolerance and embracing of ignorance, but they absolutely don't behave in the manner you stated. I have been in a Southern Baptist church for 20 years and have been around many other churches and have never encountered such ideas or associated behaviors. I would rather not be baptist because of their worldview but they are good people almost all around. Any one who went to a Christian elementary school knows how much Liberty must suck. And your comments about Christianity being a giant money racket are highly insulting and unfounded. Ever heard of a monk or nun or a missionary who gives most of their lives to serve people in countries with lower GDPs than some CEO's annual incomes? I know creationism is bogus and annoying and that there are those people who use their "Christianity" to hurt people, but most of these people are good and kind. I hope you don't treat everyone you don't understand with such prejudice.
 
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Takeaway points I got: Stay away from LUCOM definitely and possibly Rocky Vista?

Liberty, yes, Rocky Vista, I'd say no.

Obviously I'm biased here, but the facilities are beautiful, the curriculum is totally in line with all of the other DO schools in the nation, the board scores are good now and improving on a trend, and the recent match lists, however useless they may be, have some good things to say. Now I am not going to say that the idea of a for-profit medical school is my favorite thing in the world, but in order to have accreditation, a school must pump a % of profits back into facilities, etc. Also, it's not like tuition at RVU is obscene in comparison to any other DO school in the nation, so from what I can tell, they're doing things about as right as a new school can.

Tl;dr - Rocky Vista probably isn't as much of the devil incarnate as SDN would have everyone believe.
 
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Some people think that eating meat is detestable. I disagree. If there was a Vegan Medical School that had an honor code to abstain from all animal produced food I would not go. I know there are people in the world that would love to be in a location with people who share similar values and may be drawn to that school. Good for them I guess.
If Vegan Medical School's undergraduate and parent institution taught that eating meat will cause you to die of syphilis, and had a museum dedicated to proving dinosaurs died of carnivorous jurassic syphilis, i'd probably have a problem with that too
 
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I believe that purity balls and the like are oppressive to women (see the distinct lack of emphasis on men's sexual purity and the ownership of a woman's sexuality by her father is just a set up for abuse IMO)

They also are unwise given the fact that teen who pledge their virginities are more likely to have risker sex later in life because they lack the knowledge to protect themselves.

So no, I don't tolerate oppression.
I agree. However, I guarantee almost all these fathers just want to protect their daughters (empty nest syndrome anxiety, perhaps) from the real world. They are afraid of their "little girl" growing up.
As to the misogyny aspect, that is clearly present in many churches to some extent; women not preaching or leading prayer are the most common, but extreme examples are familiar to everyone: hair tied up, skirts, no speaking unless through the husband. All of this is stupid and outdated (as if it ever were, er...dated). On average women are near invariably more intelligent and capable than men and allowing religion to keep them out of leadership rolls and expressing themselves has had major drawbacks on societal progression.
 
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The peer group is the medical profession, so no...

Oh my. I'm so sorry. That's terrible. I hope you can find the inner strength to face this great obstacle in your life.

If Vegan Medical School's undergraduate and parent institution taught that eating meat will cause you to die of syphilis, and had a museum dedicated to proving dinosaurs died of carnivorous jurassic syphilis, i'd probably have a problem with that too

Do you have a problem with the fact that most medical schools and residencies allow students to opt out of elective abortion training for personal beliefs? Is there enough room in medicine to allow in people with a different world view?

People need to care a little bit less about the beliefs of others and worry more about themselves.
 
Oh my. I'm so sorry. That's terrible. I hope you can find the inner strength to face this great obstacle in your life.



Do you have a problem with the fact that most medical schools and residencies allow students to opt out of elective abortion training for personal beliefs? Is there enough room in medicine to allow in people with a different world view?

People need to care a little bit less about the beliefs of others and worry more about themselves.
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Do you have a problem with the fact that most medical schools and residencies allow students to opt out of elective abortion training for personal beliefs? Is there enough room in medicine to allow in people with a different world view?

People need to care a little bit less about the beliefs of others and worry more about themselves.
to borrow your own line of reasoning, it's sad to see someone who's so intent on convincing other people to worry about themselves concerning himself with other people's opinions

don't equate abortion training opt-out and creationism in science class. it's disingenuous and disrespectful to my rational pro-lifer colleagues
 
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Do you have a problem with the fact that most medical schools and residencies allow students to opt out of elective abortion training for personal beliefs? Is there enough room in medicine to allow in people with a different world view?

People need to care a little bit less about the beliefs of others and worry more about themselves.
I hope you realize this, but moral opposition to abortion isn't really comparable to science denialism. It's fully possible to accept the current scientific understanding of conception and embryonic development while opposing abortion. You can't say the same about young earth creationists and evolution. If Liberty started teaching that abortions cause global warming or some such nonsense, then I'm guessing most of us would have a problem with that.
 
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Such as yourself? You obviously have a very limited amount of experience around Southern Baptists. There is a lot wrong with some of their ideas including moderately to heavy anti science sentiment, [mostly]anti gay marriage, fixating on tiny, unimportant biblical points and a tolerance and embracing of ignorance, but they absolutely don't behave in the manner you stated. I have been in a Southern Baptist church for 20 years and have been around many other churches and have never encountered such ideas or associated behaviors. I would rather not be baptist because of their worldview but they are good people almost all around. Any one who went to a Christian elementary school knows how much Liberty must suck. And your comments about Christianity being a giant money racket are highly insulting and unfounded. Ever heard of a monk or nun or a missionary who gives most of their lives to serve people in countries with lower GDPs than some CEO's annual incomes? I know creationism is bogus and annoying and that there are those people who use their "Christianity" to hurt people, but most of these people are good and kind. I hope you don't treat everyone you don't understand with such prejudice.

I believe the 'money racket' comments were more narrowly meant -- That Liberty's 'fines for demerits' was a big money racket, not that the Christian religion is/was.
 
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I'm like 50/50 in this for the lolz

But srsly I don't think anyone here as a problem with a person opting out of abortion training because of their religious beliefs. That's a false equivalence.
 
The NIH publishes rankings of medical school by how much research $$ they receive from the NIH. http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2013/NIH_Awards_2013.htm (TABLE 2)

The bottom tier of these schools would probably be the "worst" medical schools. Personally, I believe the NIH rankings are a lot more informative and objective than USNWR research rankings.
 
I believe the 'money racket' comments were more narrowly meant -- That Liberty's 'fines for demerits' was a big money racket, not that the Christian religion is/was.

"The Christian book business is, like everything else associated with this religion, all about making big money"

Seems pretty clear what was meant with this comment.
 
I hope you realize this, but moral opposition to abortion isn't really comparable to science denialism. It's fully possible to accept the current scientific understanding of conception and embryonic development while opposing abortion. You can't say the same about young earth creationists and evolution. If Liberty started teaching that abortions cause global warming or some such nonsense, then I'm guessing most of us would have a problem with that.

My point is not to equate them. My point is to show that there is room in medicine for people that believe that abortion is a lifesaving medical procedure and those that think it is akin to killing a child.

The types of people that will most likely go to LUCOM (hard-line Christians) have already been going to other medical schools for years and graduating and practicing for years. I guess I don't see how all of a sudden this is the decline of modern medicine as we know it. I think you all are really blowing this issue way out of proportion.


to borrow your own line of reasoning, it's sad to see someone who's so intent on convincing other people to worry about themselves concerning himself with other people's opinions

The irony is not lost on me but at least I'm comfortable with allowing people who disagree with me the privilege of practicing medicine.
 
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*This post has been flagged by the Liberty University Office of Student Conduct for use of the term "butt hurt."A $50 fine will be imposed on SDN member touchpause13. An additional $50 fine will be levied for implied watching of a PG-13 movie."

 
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My point is not to equate them. My point is to show that there is room in medicine for people that believe that abortion is a lifesaving medical procedure and those that think it is akin to killing a child.
So it's a straw man then. No one argued against this point anywhere in the thread.
 
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The NIH publishes rankings of medical school by how much research $$ they receive from the NIH. http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2013/NIH_Awards_2013.htm (TABLE 2)

The bottom tier of these schools would probably be the "worst" medical schools. Personally, I believe the NIH rankings are a lot more informative and objective than USNWR research rankings.

Wow, I thanks for this find. I hate how most people use USNWR as if it is the holy bible when its just some magazine that arbitrarily ranks schools based on what they see is important, but I trust the NIH a whole lot more.
 
Wow, I thanks for this find. I hate how most people use USNWR as if it is the holy bible when its just some magazine that arbitrarily ranks schools based on what they see is important, but I trust the NIH a whole lot more.
I agree. The NIH rankings are also very objective; they rank the schools by how much research dollars they receive from NIH so it takes a lot of the subjectivity/public perception out of the picture. However, I believe the NIH rankings are somewhat misleading for certain schools. For example, Harvard Med is ranked in the 20s. However, I believe Harvard Med receives a lot of funding from donating alumni that ultimately makes their research endowment a lot higher; so I guess take the rankings with a grain of salt..
 
I agree. The NIH rankings are also very objective; they rank the schools by how much research dollars they receive from NIH so it takes a lot of the subjectivity/public perception out of the picture. However, I believe the NIH rankings are somewhat misleading for certain schools. For example, Harvard Med is ranked in the 20s. However, I believe Harvard Med receives a lot of funding from donating alumni that ultimately makes their research endowment a lot higher; so I guess take the rankings with a grain of salt..
They also don't include funding to affiliated institutions/hospitals. Add in the 500+ million going to Harvard's affiliated hospitals every year and that ranking makes a lot more sense.
 
The majority of people reading this website are gonna have a fundamental ignorance when it comes to places like Liberty. The southern baptist religion is completely obsessed with sex. It truly is creepy how it permeates their every thought. The entire religion is basically founded around it. They are taught that their natural desires are evil and that their only hope of salvation from eternal Hell is through Jesus Christ. As normal human beings typically experience all sorts of different sexual thoughts daily, this presents an enormous internal conflict for these people because of these intrusive sinful thoughts that they just want to go away. As a result, institutions like Liberty emerge because parents, not only concerned that they are going to hell because they had a thought about having sex with someone other than their wife or of the same sex, are even more obsessed about their children behaving sexually and going to hell. I once went to a wedding where a friend of mine, a conservative baptist, was marrying a ultra-conservative baptist girl. We stayed in her parents house that night. It was beyond creepy. The daughter's room I stayed in had a framed "virginity pledge" on the wall signed by her, her dad, and her pastor. The brother in this family, about 19 years old, would randomly burst out into prayer because of thoughts he was having, and told my friend how lucky he was that he was getting married because he couldn't take it (not being able to have sex) anymore and that he was going to get married asap. The kid literally was fidgeting all over the place and looked like he was going to explode. So places like Liberty are where these people send their kids to make sure they don't have sex. The school has all sorts of activities and extensive facilities designed to keep the minds of young people occupied on things other than sex and therefore as far removed from secular culture as possible. Because parents are so obsessed with this concept of keeping their children from experiencing any form of sex or even sexual education before their honeymoon, places like these are big money. You have no idea how much money this place brings in. It's a rather genius business plan. They could probably build 10 medical schools in cash if they wanted.

I personally think it's hilariously ironic that a group that is so uptight about sex that they let it literally control their lives, not by having it, but by trying to avoid it and not get in trouble for it. Of course, the psychological damage that this kind of repression does to one's mind leads them to condemn and try to legally outlaw people who live normally. They are subconsciously furious that other people can get away with what they have to suffer to repress and try to do everything they can to make others suffer as well (legally banning gay marriage, shunning single mothers) or punish them for what they have done (outlawing abortion, expelling students from their schools for sexual conduct, condemning fornicators and homosexuals to hell, etc). The hilarity is that outside of the group of strict by-the-book homeschooled students, the other kids have sex and drink just like other college students, but they don't allow cameras in their parties for obvious reasons.

You know, I bet single med students that go to Liberty may have a lot of... opportunities, in spite of the honor code.
 
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Oh if anyone was interested in that documentary I was talking about, I found the trailer. It was made in 2011 and the opening shot made me die laughing.

 
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My personal favorite from Liberty's Code of Conduct:

"
Students of the opposite sex visiting alone at an off-campus residence
"

12 Reprimands + 50$ fine.

Pretty sure that rule is illegal somehow. Pretty sure. Where's Law2Doc when we need him most?

Liberty University is a private school. There is nothing inherently illegal about this at all; those subjected to the policy actually agree to abide by it and tolerate it.

On another note, my sympathy for them is limited, and I have a hard time fathoming why anyone, regardless of their religious beliefs, would attend a university with such a ridiculous policy.
 
Liberty University is a private school. There is nothing inherently illegal about this at all; those subjected to the policy actually agree to abide by it and tolerate it.

On another note, my sympathy for them is limited, and I have a hard time fathoming why anyone, regardless of their religious beliefs, would attend a university with such a ridiculous policy.

I know someone that did a PhD through Liberty U in psych counseling or something like that, but it was mostly an online program, so the code of conduct only affected her minimally. :)

I had no idea it even existed while she was in that program so I didn't get to ask her about it.
 
I don't want to name names, but there are a few US MD schools that have really bad reputations due to past mishaps. E.g., severe financial problems in the 80s and 90s. The concerns are unwarranted now, but I think that some older physicians still look down on those schools. I have a friend doing a surgery residency who says he is routinely berated by fellow surgeons because of his alma mater.

Are you referring to Howard?
 
The NIH publishes rankings of medical school by how much research $$ they receive from the NIH. http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2013/NIH_Awards_2013.htm (TABLE 2)

The bottom tier of these schools would probably be the "worst" medical schools. Personally, I believe the NIH rankings are a lot more informative and objective than USNWR research rankings.
Research funding does not necessarily equate to quality medical education. It equates to quality research education. Not all of us want to be involved in research- personally it bores the hell out of me and just isn't my thing. If I'm looking for a list that tells me which school will teach me to be a good non-academic community physician, the research rankings aren't helping me at all.
 
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You know, I bet single med students that go to Liberty may have a lot of... opportunities, in spite of the honor code.
If I were single I'd consider applying just to have a good time tapping all that pent up sexual frustration.

Also, am I one of the only ones that finds all this bashing of Liberty's constraining of free expression kind of ironic on a forum that seems to ban massive numbers of people arbitrarily and with no explanation?
 
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SDN moderating is very lax, i mean look at the dicks like me who can stick around for years taunting premeds
 
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I don't believe Liberty is teaching their medical students creationism either, but they do teach it in their general biology courses to freshman. I believe Loma Linda is different in that their students (non med) do not learn creationism in general biology like it is science, and instead have separate religious courses. Believe me I don't understand creationism either, but to each his own. If that is what a person wants to believe, fine but keep it out of your science courses. Hasn't the catholic church officially stated evolution does not directly oppose the bible anyway?

I'm not sure the Catholic Church has officially stated evolution doesn't oppose the bible, but I do know the past few Popes have stated that evolution doesn't oppose the bible.

Also, I thought I went to a somewhat strict Christian school with it's own honor code. Looking at what Liberty U students have to go through and abide by is quite appalling. My school does not impose outrageous fines for watching R movies, or anything if we violate the honor code. It puts almost all of the responsibility on the student. The only time the school might step in is if you start doing drugs or have a drinking problem. At my school we are also taught evolution and how it does not violate anything the Bible teaches. It has actually been very interesting to learn and to see all sides of the debate.
 
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My ex girlfriend went to a very strict Christian college her first year. After they found out about me they forced her to go to counseling. Also her roommate asked to be moved to a different room and she was kicked off of the varsity team she was on because none of her teammates wanted to he around a homo.

And they were liberal compared to Liberty. So the thought of a school like that having a medical school is beyond disgusting to me.
 
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I have to break in and mention that my in-laws had a doctor just like that (and they are not Evangelicals). He was a God-intoxicated fool who would rather quote Scripture than treat my mother-in-law's depression. I managed to have them switch to a faculty colleague of mine, because I wanted them to have a doctor who knew what she was doing.

I have a profound distaste for LU's politics and it colors my opinion of their COM. Just reading over their faculty bios on their website makes me cringe.

to play devil's advocate, i suppose extreme evangelicals need doctors too, and someone from their peer group may be in a better position to serve their needs[/quote]

And I can't resist this either. I don't remember the book I read it in, but the majority of women working in adult films come from backgrounds like this.

Fritz I bet you that framed pledge was from a purity ball. Which is probably the creepiest **** in the world. It's where girls basically have a father daughter event where they pledge to their dads to stay pure until marriage. Ewww
 
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