Worst Medical School?

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Irene Adler

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I'm putting together my list of medical schools in the United States to apply to, and I was wondering if there were any out there with particularly unpleasant features that you don't read about in the view books? Forwarned is forarmed, and it would save me fees on secondary applications.

I'm going to be a primary doc in a rural area (Internal Medicine), if that helps. Where would I hate to go?

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I personally think Wright state looks terrible. It's got like a 1 % acceptance rate for out of state and it looks like an at best, alright medical school. What gives?
 
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i don't think there are many med schools that are really *that* bad. i mean, i've heard bad things about finch, but other than that i think it really depends on what you want out of a med school. people have different opinions on things, so it's hard to say how you would feel about a particular school. i didn't like nymc, but that doesn't mean that it's a bad school for you. i would say don't apply to urban schools if that's not your thing, but if you want to live in a city for a few years i wouldn't immediately knock those off your list.

if you want to do rural primary care & you're sure of that, i'd suggest applying to the university of vermont.
 
Yeah.

This is bound to hurt people's feelings. I worked extra-hard for two years to get to Tufts and I have this inkling that somebody's gonna say "Tufts is the worst med school" thus ruining my day and faith in humanity.

At least change the title to "Marked flaws in US Medical Schools" or something more delicate, at the very least.
 
Originally posted by Freakingzooming
I personally think Wright state looks terrible. It's got like a 1 % acceptance rate for out of state and it looks like an at best, alright medical school. What gives?

Wright State isn't too bad. I think their primary goal is to produce physicians that will practice in SW Ohio, which is probably why they have such a low acceptance rate for out of state med students.
 
Upenn, cause they didnt interview me :laugh:

two points, not particularly directed at anyone then i'm gone:

first, I can feel some flames coming out of this thread, but its hard for someone to qualify a school as the "worst" for someone else. What one person values in a school can vary widely from one person to another. Cost, location, curriculum, lots of things play into a decision.

secondly, this is one of these opportunities to reiterate to the sdn community that as a medical school applicant you have to check your sense of entitlement at the door. The best medical school can very well be the only one you get into. No matter how competitive you think you are, you arent entitled to ANYTHING in this process, and I mean ANYTHING. I will be glad to dig up stories of people with 3.5 and 30 plus mcats reapplying and such.
 
to the OP...

according to US News, the top 5 for rural medicine are:
1) Univ of Washington
2) Univ of New Mexico
3) Univ of North Carolina- Chapel Hill
3) Univ of North Dakota
5) East Carolina University

i think all of these schools show strong in-state preference though.

g'luck
 
If you are 100% sure that Rural PC (primary care not politically correct) is where you want to be then make sure that you try to minimize debt. Primary care residencies aren't that difficult to obtain so I would say go to the state school, or other school, that minimizes your debt the most. This will give you the most latitude in terms of choosing a practice are. Also take into account your personal happiness. However, unless you have significant med experience don't corner yourself to much (primary care loans, Health services scholarship etc.) because you might freak out and decide to become a neurosurgeon or something. Take home message if you want to do Primary care the most expensive school is probably the worst for you.
 
.........DW's quest for moderator status continues...............


;)
:p
 
You could try SIU. I hear their rural is good.
 
Originally posted by alphabeta53
FINCH


Let me be the first to ask: What's wrong with Finch? Do you have any objective first-hand knowledge of Finch's negatives? Or is your opinion based only on heresay and pre-med urban legends?:rolleyes:

I was accepted to Chicago Med last year. I ranked it above at least 3 other schools(Creighton, Albany and NYMC) and would have gladly attended, if my ist choice hadn't come through. I don't know how other people are making this decision, but I made my choice on personal happiness, curriculum, residency placement, facilities and physical location(ie the city etc...). Yes, nightlife will be limited in Waukegan, but that didn't matter much to me. I guess what I'm getting at is that picking a school is a very personal choice and trying to turn off future candidates randomly before they've even visited the school is not cool to me.

my opinion.
 
My response is not based on any objective-knowledge. Finch is the first thing that popped in my mind when I thought of a "bad" medical school. For all I know, it could be an axcellent school, I don't know very much about it. Sorry if i offended people with my prior remark.
 
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Originally posted by alphabeta53
My response is not based on any objective-knowledge. Finch is the first thing that popped in my mind when I thought of a "bad" medical school. For all I know, it could be an axcellent school, I don't know very much about it. Sorry if i offended people with my prior remark.


Apology accepted. Thank You.:)
 
Worst med school?

I can name about 15 for ya....NYU, BU, Georgetown...

All the schools that rejected me are THE WORST SCHOOLS IN AMERICA!!!!

;)
 
Come on guys why do we have to be so "liberal PC" all the time and insist that there's no such thing as a "worst" school.

You guys who are saying that must honestly believe that all med schools are exactly alike, which is totally not true.

We're talking about "worst" in a relative context, not in absolute terms, so yes there is such a thing as a "worst" med school. We might not all agree on what that school is, but certainly we can agree that some med schools are better than others. Its just a relative comparison, nobody's saying that you cant be a good doctor by going to those schools.

My votes for schools that are subpar relative to others:

University of Oklahoma
Finch
Univ of Illinois Chicago
Loma Linda
Medical College of Georgia
Univ of South Florida
Florida State Univ
Texas A&M
St Louis Univ
SUNY schools (New York state public medical school system)
 
Originally posted by MacGyver
Come on guys why do we have to be so "liberal PC" all the time and insist that there's no such thing as a "worst" school.

You guys who are saying that must honestly believe that all med schools are exactly alike, which is totally not true.

We're talking about "worst" in a relative context, not in absolute terms, so yes there is such a thing as a "worst" med school. We might not all agree on what that school is, but certainly we can agree that some med schools are better than others. Its just a relative comparison, nobody's saying that you cant be a good doctor by going to those schools.

My votes for schools that are subpar relative to others:

University of Oklahoma
Finch
Univ of Illinois Chicago
Loma Linda
Medical College of Georgia
Univ of South Florida
Florida State Univ
Texas A&M
St Louis Univ
SUNY schools (New York state public medical school system)

well obviously school's are different, macgyver, i agree with you to a point.. but much like medical schools are "different", people have diffferent values and situations. For example, I guarantee you will catch heat for putting MCG on this list if acceptees of MCG read this. I personally would never go there cause I dont like augusta, but there are a handful of people at that school I know personally (and people on SDN) who turn down acceptances at Emory, UVA, Vandy, and other big name medical schools in the Southeast due to the fact they A) want to practice in GA and B) cant turn down the irresistable cost of education. Their acceptances standards are on line with most other medical schools in the US as far as MCAT and GPAs go, and they match students at competitive residencies in the Southeast. Different strokes for different folks.
 
^
l
l
l


looking to start trouble :)
 
Originally posted by DW
well obviously school's are different, macgyver, i agree with you to a point.. but much like medical schools are "different", people have diffferent values and situations. For example, I guarantee you will catch heat for putting MCG on this list if acceptees of MCG read this. I personally would never go there cause I dont like augusta, but there are a handful of people at that school I know personally (and people on SDN) who turn down acceptances at Emory, UVA, Vandy, and other big name medical schools in the Southeast due to the fact they A) want to practice in GA and B) cant turn down the irresistable cost of education. Their acceptances standards are on line with most other medical schools in the US as far as MCAT and GPAs go, and they match students at competitive residencies in the Southeast. Different strokes for different folks.

Word.

Same goes for UIC. I know of people turning down acceptances at Northwestern and Pritzker to go there b/c of cheaper tuition and excellent clinical training. UICs matchlist is very impressive to boot. From what I've heard, I'd trust a UIC grad's clinical competence over grads from many other schools including a few of Macgyver's precious Ivy's. :rolleyes:

http://www.studentdoctor.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9949
 
let's be honest.....the worst medical schools are the ones with most attractive people. hear me out first before you scratch your head. i don't know about you people, but when i'm at the library i have a tendency to look at every girl that walks by. this leads to "rubber-neck" syndrome and consequently after being at the library for 5 hours, you realize you have a sore neck and still haven't got **** done. therefore, if my future medical school has really ugly people i would never be tempted to look up in search of cute girls and i would be able to devote all of my time to studying:)
 
To add to what DW said, Saint Louis MED has a pretty good reputation. Their admissions requirements are tough (one of the higher MCAT standards of med schools). I don't think they belong on that list either.

And no, I don't go there.
 
explosivo,

thanks for bringing back good memories :clap:

I cant believe how serious everyone takes themselves on here. I make some comments that people dont agree with or dont like and I can tell they spent all day thinking about how they wanted to kill me and do various punitive things to my body. :laugh:
 
Originally posted by MacGyver
explosivo,

thanks for bringing back good memories :clap:

I cant believe how serious everyone takes themselves on here. I make some comments that people dont agree with or dont like and I can tell they spent all day thinking about how they wanted to kill me and do various punitive things to my body. :laugh:

Glad I could provide some "nostalgia" for you. I did that to add some perspective on your views for the benefit of others on this forum.

And no, I don't go around all day ruminating on what you post. Don't flatter yourself. I just have a problem when someone calls several medical schools subpar and doesn't even offer up a criteria that was used to judge them.
 
Why do people have to be so defensive? MacGuyver is entitled to his opinion. No one is ever going to agree on what the best or worst medical schools are, and because someone doesn't like the school that YOU attend doesn't mean you have to get all uppity. They, for whatever reason, don't like your school. It's not like they don't like you personally. The OP just wanted opinions on schools; I don't think she wanted to start a flame war.

That being said, I THINK that the "worst medical school" doesn't exist in the United States. The worst is one of those diploma mills in Coasta Rica, or where ever. :p
 
Let's put this "worst" idea in perspective--

From the USNEWS list of Business Schools

1. Stanford - 3.57 GPA
6. UChicago - 3.3 GPA
31. Wash U - 3.1 GPA

Law Schools

1. Yale - 3.77-3.93 25-75% GPA
11. Northwestern - 3.33-3.71
49. SMU - 3.03-3.66

How many US med schools are 25% of the class getting accepted with a 3.03 or lower, like SMU Law?

What US med school has a average 3.1 GPA, like Wash U Business?

Basically my point is while some us med schools may be worse than others, none of them are "bad". In fact, a candidate worthy of acceptance into a ANY US med school, could, if they were so inclined, probably have a shot at a top 10 business school or a top 25 law school, at least by the numbers.

So to all you who have gotten into med school, any school, you really DID something. Smile about it.
 
Thanks for that pat on the back JlazyMD, you put that into perspective. Sometimes it's nice to let go of the insatiable be-better attitude and realize that just getting in is pretty admirable.
 
I really don't understand including a school like MCG on the list. Avg MCAT of 29-30, avg gpa of 3.6. And if you look at Emory's acceptances vs. MCG's acceptances, it is clear that a significant number of students turn down emory for MCG.

If you include MCG on a worst list, then you have to put 80% of all public schools on a worst list. Michael
 
I don't think you can judge how good a school is by GPA or MCAT or whatever. And you DEFINATELY cannot cross compare law/bschool/med school based on that. Bschools I know for sure look more on work experience than GPA. And most ppl are far removed from school (like 10 years or so)...so basically their GPA they had 10 years ago..doesn't carry much weight. Also I think you need a different set of skills as a Bschooler or law schooler. It's a different type of thinking than med school. And quite frankly I know a lot of med schoolers who would not be ideal bschool/law school material.

Originally posted by JlazyMD
Let's put this "worst" idea in perspective--

From the USNEWS list of Business Schools

1. Stanford - 3.57 GPA
6. UChicago - 3.3 GPA
31. Wash U - 3.1 GPA

Law Schools

1. Yale - 3.77-3.93 25-75% GPA
11. Northwestern - 3.33-3.71
49. SMU - 3.03-3.66

How many US med schools are 25% of the class getting accepted with a 3.03 or lower, like SMU Law?

What US med school has a average 3.1 GPA, like Wash U Business?

Basically my point is while some us med schools may be worse than others, none of them are "bad". In fact, a candidate worthy of acceptance into a ANY US med school, could, if they were so inclined, probably have a shot at a top 10 business school or a top 25 law school, at least by the numbers.

So to all you who have gotten into med school, any school, you really DID something. Smile about it.
 
Goya,

I agree with some of your points. Especially, I'm sure that many or most business schools types would not make great doctors, and vice versa. Also, I'm not trying to say that GPA scores say how good a school is. But it does tell you pretty well how competative it is. And it is the only measure that you can really use to compare med schools to law schools etc. As for business schools caring mostly about work exp. -- I'm sure that is true, just like med schools want to see research or clinical or humanitarian work and law schools want to see internships, paralegal, whatever. But all schools do care a lot about GPA, though you are right that business schools value work resume more.

Anyway, I believe my basic point still holds: getting into any US med school is like getting into a top professional school in another field.
 
yeah, pleasant change to see that people are leaving Tufts alone on this thread, thanks!:D other SDN "worst school" favorites are Temple (recent accreditation pulled) and NYMC. Personally, I think that any allopathic school will get you where you want to go.. MCV/VCU and Maryland have good rural opportunities and I think even require students to spend some time working in a rural area during 3rd and 4th year. both schools have solid reputations and consider out of staters.
 
I think Duke deserves a spot on this list. As if there wasn't already enough material to learn during med school, students at Duke have their two preclinical years scrunched into only one! I can't think of other schools that impose that kind of hell onto their students.
 
Originally posted by guitarguy
I think Duke deserves a spot on this list. As if there wasn't already enough material to learn during med school, students at Duke have their two preclinical years scrunched into only one! I can't think of other schools that impose that kind of hell onto their students.

LOL. Im sure Duke is so bad (consistent top 5 med school) that 100% of the people on this forum offered a comprable tuition to their state school would turn it down in a heartbeat :rolleyes:

But seriously, I think a two for one is great. That means I could get a second degree without paying for an extra year(s). If you are interested in research or some other academic degree (MPH, JD, PHD), Duke is pretty nice.

It might not be good for people who need the extra help/time in biomedical science, but for those who can make the cut, its a great opportunity to earn an extra degree. Why slow down for everyone else when you can go at your own pace?
 
For folks who are recommending that I attend state schools that have good reputations for training rural care doctors--I live in Oregon, so California, Washington, Georgia, New Mexico, Colorado and any school with over 50% in-state students is out of the question.

As far as the "worst school" designation--it sure attracted attention didn't it? There is worst school for everyone out there, for different reasons. Perhaps not in the sense that the school is academically unsound, but has some unsavory aspects that makes its students more miserable than necessary. That's what I'm worried about.

For example, if I want to be a primary care doc in a rural area, a school that loves research would not make me happy. I also know that I don't want to spend 40 hours a week in lecture, or wait until my 3rd year to work with patients. Nor do I want to attend a school full of crabby people. Nor do I want to have to deal with a school with bad organization and management--my graduate school was like that, and it was both frustrating and frightening. I constantly worried that the administration would screw up some vital aspect I needed for my degree.

Excellent advice on attending a relatively inexpensive school--I'm going to be a poverty-stricken doc if my tuition is too expensive. Thus, my first choice is OHSU.

When you go to the interview, what do you look for at the school that sends alarms off in your mind saying "maybe I do not want to attend here, even if accepted"?

I'm not trying to be elitest about which school I will attend, but if I'm going to go into debt for 30 years, I want to avoid as many unpleasant surprises as I can.
 
Irene this thread sucks. And learn to spell. The prefix "fore-" refers to "in advance", not "for-". Delete this thread please.
 
I would have to say the "worst" med school as in attitude of the admissions office is definetly hands down Finch U!!! they are so rude.
 
MCG has an excellent residency placement, and I personally basically turned down Emory and alot of other schools I could have gotten into to go there.. I had stacked EC's and a GPA well above Emory's average, plus personal relationships with Emory staff and residents, but there was obviously alot more to my decision than numbers.. I personally know of atleast 3 other people that have turned down UVA, UNC, Emory, and a school in New York to attend this school. I'll tell you this. The people at MCG go out of there way to actively recruit and make you feel comfortable..You will actually feel valued, and get an incredible value for your education. I guarantee you that they are taking candidates from what USNEWS, and I emphasize USNEWS here because the ranking systems are flawed, considers to be top schools.
 
Originally posted by ocean11
I would have to say the "worst" med school as in attitude of the admissions office is definetly hands down Finch U!!! they are so rude.

I've actually had very good experiences with the finch staff. And I've called so many times and they've never lost their patience with me.
:clap:
 
Originally posted by MacGyver
Come on guys why do we have to be so "liberal PC" all the time and insist that there's no such thing as a "worst" school.

You guys who are saying that must honestly believe that all med schools are exactly alike, which is totally not true.

We're talking about "worst" in a relative context, not in absolute terms, so yes there is such a thing as a "worst" med school. We might not all agree on what that school is, but certainly we can agree that some med schools are better than others. Its just a relative comparison, nobody's saying that you cant be a good doctor by going to those schools.

My votes for schools that are subpar relative to others:

University of Oklahoma
Finch
Univ of Illinois Chicago
Loma Linda
Medical College of Georgia
Univ of South Florida
Florida State Univ
Texas A&M
St Louis Univ
SUNY schools (New York state public medical school system)

I would hardly place UIC or USF in that list....USF's match list is alot better than many ranked (read: top 50 schools), and it's research dollars place it 34th in the nation; I've only heard good things about UIC..It's the 3rd best medical school in chicago, behind pritzker (1) and northwestern (2). I would agree about the others....I would probably say that FSU is the absolute worst school in the country, but I guess we'll have to wait and see the first graduating class to confirm that.

I would also add meharry, morehouse, and howard to the worst list, plus Uni. of Mississippi, and UAMS (arkansas).
 
"I've only heard good things about UIC..It's the 3rd best medical school in chicago, behind pritzker (1) and northwestern (2)."

Sorry, but UIC's #3 in Chicago according to what? Your opinion? Back yourself up please - it makes no sense to pull this out of nowhere.
 
Originally posted by PluckyDuk8
"I've only heard good things about UIC..It's the 3rd best medical school in chicago, behind pritzker (1) and northwestern (2)."

Sorry, but UIC's #3 in Chicago according to what? Your opinion? Back yourself up please - it makes no sense to pull this out of nowhere.


yes, of course it's my opinion...nearly all of this stuff from anyone is opinion, except for facts quoted to back up other rankings..I'm going on heresay, and my limited personal experience in doing research on medical schools to make that chicago choice..Which would you say ranks above UIC? Certainly not Loyola or Finch. Rush? The osteopath school in chicago? :laugh:
 
Well, it depends on what you are saying they are better for. Overall? Curriculum? Happiness of their students? Matching?

I have been speaking to a bunch of different physicians in the Chicagoland area to get opinions of students coming out of various schools and their opinions of the schools in general and the answer I pretty much get is that they are all very well respected and you can't go wrong. Some may say something like faculty is better here, clinical training is better here...but I wouldn't think the difference is that strong between the three overall. Anyone else?
 
I was just wondering what, exactly, puts University of Oklahoma on the list of worst med schools. I'm a senior undergrad at OU and am going to apply to the OU med school this summer. So I'd really like to know what I'm getting into if it really is that bad.
 
Ok so I looked at a comprehensive list of all 125 med schools and looked at the list I put up earlier. I took a couple off and put some more nominees for worst allopathic med schools in the United States. Since there are 125 total schools I thought about trying to limit this list to just 10 programs. But then I couldnt really do that either, because I felt I would be leaving out too many "worthy" candidates.


Finch
Loma Linda
Florida State Univ
Texas A&M
St Louis Univ
Universite del Caribe (Puerto Rico)
Drexel
Eastern Virginia Univ
Ponce School of Medicine (Puerto Rico)
Univ of Puerto Rico
Howard University
Meharry Medical College
Marshall University (didnt even know this school existed)
Mercer University
Northeastern Ohio (didnt know it existed)
East Carolina University
University of Louisville
Wright State Univ
 
Originally posted by JlazyMD
Let's put this "worst" idea in perspective--

From the USNEWS list of Business Schools

1. Stanford - 3.57 GPA
6. UChicago - 3.3 GPA
31. Wash U - 3.1 GPA

Law Schools

1. Yale - 3.77-3.93 25-75% GPA
11. Northwestern - 3.33-3.71
49. SMU - 3.03-3.66

How many US med schools are 25% of the class getting accepted with a 3.03 or lower, like SMU Law?

What US med school has a average 3.1 GPA, like Wash U Business?

Basically my point is while some us med schools may be worse than others, none of them are "bad". In fact, a candidate worthy of acceptance into a ANY US med school, could, if they were so inclined, probably have a shot at a top 10 business school or a top 25 law school, at least by the numbers.

So to all you who have gotten into med school, any school, you really DID something. Smile about it.

Well the question does beg this, (1) how many accredited LAW/ B-schools are there, (2) is GPA a good prognostic indicator of who would be a good doctor/lawyer/b-man. Also, this may be an indication of self-fullfiling prophecies. Though I have not taken _that_ many non-science classes. I do believe that science classes have a great degree of grade inflation-- as indicated both as a student and teacher of said classes.

The real question is this then, what is a "bad" medical school in order to define the "worst." If you subscribe to the opinion, as I do, that medicine is not how fancy your medical training is or how many gadgets you get to play with but really the dedication to healing people then there can be no worst medical school-- only schools that you would be most unhappy at because you aren't playing with the latest toys, or in the sexiest of cities. Remember, medicine is the art and science of healing. In reality all you need is a few basic tools and training.

That being said. I haven't the foggiest what the worst school is... And I would not presume myself to be able to say which is-- though I have to agree with the people that have said the worst schools are the ones that didnt take me! Hahaha.

Best of luck to all!
C
 
Does US news rank ALL 125 allo and 19 osteo schools, or just the top 50?

Thanks!
 
Originally posted by MacGyver
Ok so I looked at a comprehensive list of all 125 med schools and looked at the list I put up earlier. I took a couple off and put some more nominees for worst allopathic med schools in the United States. Since there are 125 total schools I thought about trying to limit this list to just 10 programs. But then I couldnt really do that either, because I felt I would be leaving out too many "worthy" candidates.


Finch
Loma Linda
Florida State Univ
Texas A&M
St Louis Univ
Universite del Caribe (Puerto Rico)
Drexel
Eastern Virginia Univ
Ponce School of Medicine (Puerto Rico)
Univ of Puerto Rico
Howard University
Meharry Medical College
Marshall University (didnt even know this school existed)
Mercer University
Northeastern Ohio (didnt know it existed)
East Carolina University
University of Louisville
Wright State Univ

Whoa buddy!!!!!! First of all, what is with you that you would actually post the list twice, the 2nd time adding more schools, when you have no reasoning to support your choices. The only thing that could possibly come out of your post is making someone feel bad, like me for instance. While I am confident in my abilities (I turned down 2 other acceptances, and cancelled six interviews, including one at Vanderbilt, when I decided to attend U. of Louisville), I still had a stabbing feeling in my stomach when I read U. of Louisville on your list. I cant explain why I would let the opinion of someone I dont even know affect me, but initially it did. But then I have to remember that I have never ever before now heard anything negative said about U. of Louisville, and I recall all the accomplishments associated with the school. You do also recall that it was at Louisville hospitals, assoc. with the med school, where the artificial Abiocor heart was first implanted, and also where the first successful hand transplant took place, don't you? And what is the deal with Marshall and Northeastern Ohio? Just because you haven't heard of a school, it must be one of the worst? I would venture that if you haven't even heard of all the med schools then you probably dont have extensive knowledge of them anyway, and so your opinions dont carry much weight.

Actually, though, while I don't agree with your opinion of UL, I would be interested in hearing why you felt the school deserved a place on your list, because it must have been based on something. Maybe it is something you have misunderstood and I can help correct that misunderstanding, or maybe it is something I am overlooking. Just curious.
 
i say finch: expensive, tuition increases when they need more money, in a terrible area for preclinical (nothing to do), only school that a good number of their students got into, limited school space, and cold weather. it was a waste of an interview.
 
I don't think there is a worst medical school. In the end it doesn't matter. They all require you to study and pass the boards. just my thoughts.
 
Originally posted by darkhorse
I don't think there is a worst medical school. In the end it doesn't matter. They all require you to study and pass the boards. just my thoughts.


ALL medical schools have flaws you can pick at. I don't think this statement can really be argued. Each medical school applicant has flaws. I personally feel it is about the best fit.

I was curious about rankings because I would like to know if US news has the cohones to actually put a school on the very bottom. Or do they just have the top 50 and every other school is in the leftover pile :rolleyes: .
 
Hi

I am new to this forum and am actively considering Finch University.

I would like to know more about why Finch is on the worst list and what should I possibly watch for when i visit the university admissions office, informally.

ps.. actually i am an international non trad student.. and most of the universities in my area want me to do the premed reqs again wheread finch is ready to leave me off the hook on that.. i have a degree in allied health already and am not very enthusiastic about the prereqs.. since it would mean extra time and money..

Any advice will be appreciated..

Thank you.
 
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