Worth retaking a 31 MCAT? CA resident, 3.75 cGPA

[petit_haricot]

I know my 31 is a balanced , good score. I can't say with certainty right now that a retake would get me a 35+, but I'm willing to work hard if it's the only way to open doors for myself school-wise.

Basically, I just wish my MCAT were a few points higher so I'm not just limited to lower middle-tier schools. (It would be IDEAL to stay in CA.) Would it be worth trying for a higher score to gain entry into some of the UCs? Or should I leave the 31 and try to improve my application in other ways?

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[kthxbai]

The lack of clinical exposure in your app is much more worrisome than a 31 coming from CA.

What have you done with patients?

 

[Aerus]

No, retaking a 31 can be a sign of poor judgement. Don't.

 

[kthxbai]

No, retaking a 31 can be a sign of poor judgement. Don't.

She's a CA resident, so I don't think this would be bad judgement (OP also stated she wanted to stay in the state, which realistically would mean she's need to retake, even a 31).

Her app is really weak on the clinical, so I think this would be the first issue to tackle.

 

[Aerus]

She's a CA resident, so I don't think this would be bad judgement (OP also stated she wanted to stay in the state, which realistically would mean she's need to retake, even a 31).

Her app is really weak on the clinical, so I think this would be the first issue to tackle.

She was scoring between 32-37, so there's no reason to suspect that this score was a fluke. It's very possible to score even lower than a 31 on a retake. It IS bad judgement. Over 2/3 of med school matriculants from California must leave the state to go to med school. OP isn't out of the running for all schools in California, but if OP must leave, it's a sacrifice to be a doctor.

 

[gyngyn]

She's a CA resident, so I don't think this would be bad judgement (OP also stated she wanted to stay in the state, which realistically would mean she's need to retake, even a 31).

Her app is really weak on the clinical, so I think this would be the first issue to tackle.

I do not recommend re-taking a 31. Most people don't do well enough to merit the opportunity cost. They only improve a point or two (which is what we expect from someone who has already taken the test once!). Many do worse. OP can get into many fine medical schools with a 31. Statistically it is unlikely to be in CA (whether she re-takes or not). My advice is to use the time she would have wasted re-taking the MCAT and improve other deficiencies. As previously noted by @Aerus, when you are in CA you have to expect to go OOS for medical school (no matter how high the MCAT). We'll probably still be here when she applies for residency!.

 

[acapnial]

Would retaking the MCAT be considered poor judgement if she got a significantly higher score? Or only if the score failed to improve?

 

[gyngyn]

Would retaking the MCAT be considered poor judgement if she got a significantly higher score? Or only if the score failed to improve?

The best application is one with a single strong MCAT.
Retaking a weak score is understandable (if not desirable).
Re-taking a good score identifies you as a particular type of applicant. Even with a much higher re-take score.
Is is always a bad idea? Maybe not, but when the original score is this good a re-take is more often a liability than an asset.

 

[petit_haricot]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm going to talk to an advisor more about the MCAT thing, just because I'm still feeling unsatisfied/uncertain inside. But about improving my clinical experience, what can I do besides things like scribing and shadowing? And what could I be doing to be a more competitive applicant? I'm less than a year from applying, so these next few months are going to be my last hurrah.

 

[Afford]

A publication would help. More hours will help, but I believe the best thing is getting good stories out of your activities to better describe them when interviewers ask. I would only retake the MCAT if you're confident that you can get 3 or more points higher because I read somewhere that the expected variability of an MCAT score is 2 points. Since your test average is a 33, you might or might not get a 34+. Also, every school and admissions person has his/her own way of interpreting multiple scores. You could always try asking your reach schools how they view multiple MCATs.

 

[itsthat1guy]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm going to talk to an advisor more about the MCAT thing, just because I'm still feeling unsatisfied/uncertain inside. But about improving my clinical experience, what can I do besides things like scribing and shadowing? And what could I be doing to be a more competitive applicant? I'm less than a year from applying, so these next few months are going to be my last hurrah.

You can get clinical experience through volunteering in a hospital where you have direct patient contact (or can at least smell them, as the saying goes). Furthermore, shadowing is not considered patient contact

 

[timer]

I'm aiming to apply MD next cycle and started putting together a list of schools. After consulting MSAR, which says that the national average MCAT score is 33, I fear that my 31 will seriously limit which schools I can consider applying to.

I know my 31 is a balanced (10/11/10), good score. I had a 33.5 average on my AAMC practice tests, ranging from 32-37, so while I wasn't outraged by the 31 on the real deal I wasn't really happy with it either. I can't say with certainty right now that a retake would get me a 35+, but I'm willing to work hard if it's the only way to open doors for myself school-wise.

Other bits of my application-- what I'm roughly expecting by next June, at least
Asian, female, CA resident.
3.75 cGPA, 3.7 sGPA with big upward trend in both (4.0 last three semesters)
UC Berkeley. Bio major, music minor
Strong LORs from professors, a doctor, and my PI
Research: UCSF parasitology lab, one year, 750 hours. UCSF neurobiology lab, one year, 700 hours.
Shadowing: 80 hours, primary/women's care provider and pediatrician
Volunteering: Adult ESL instructor, 1 year, 180 hours. Nursing home, 100 hours. Church pianist, 150 hours.
Work: Private tutor, 2000 hours (I tutor over a dozen students). Two retail jobs, 250 hours.

Outstanding personal circumstances (?): Mom passed away freshman year, dad lost job shortly afterwards and was unemployed for a year before finding work in China. I've been living at home (commuting to school) and taking care of my sister and the house while he's been gone during my junior and senior year.

Basically, I just wish my MCAT were a few points higher so I'm not just limited to lower middle-tier schools. (It would be IDEAL to stay in California.) Would it be worth trying for a higher score to gain entry into some of the UCs? Or should I leave the 31 and try to improve my application in other ways?

am I wrong but the national ACCEPTED average is 33 not the matriculated average. So MSAR MCATs are inflated correct? also by how much do you think they are inflated? Most importantly is GPA inflated since according to MSAR below a 3.4 your done for.

 

[jpbspbelair]

I'm going to talk to an advisor more about the MCAT thing, just because I'm still feeling unsatisfied/uncertain inside.

 

[sat0ri]

am I wrong but the national ACCEPTED average is 33 not the matriculated average. So MSAR MCATs are inflated correct? also by how much do you think they are inflated? Most importantly is GPA inflated since according to MSAR below a 3.4 your done for.

this thread might help you, but there are more that touch on this question (a good albeit slightly out of place question):
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-on-the-msar-calculated.828389/#post-11091170

I'm going to talk to an advisor more about the MCAT thing, just because I'm still feeling unsatisfied/uncertain inside.

You'd really have to crush it to make it worth your while, but that's also the same strategy people take on when they buy 10 more lottery tickets after losing on the first 10. Here's a surprisingly analogous take on it:
"Because of the way our brains process the past and the future, we're more likely to compare our current situation to what things were like before. Logic and economists would advise you to immediately forget every offer that's been made to you the second you turn it down because, and this is important, that money no longer exists. It is imaginary money. And pretending otherwise is going to make you poorer."
Why not let bygones be bygones, finally breathe a sigh of relief you never have to touch the MCAT again, and begin working on actually getting immersed in the clinical field

 

[sat0ri]

You can get clinical experience through volunteering in a hospital where you have direct patient contact (or can at least smell them, as the saying goes). Furthermore, shadowing is not considered patient contact

I can smell patients when I shadow. Especially the pathologists. Yarg

 

[gyngyn]

am I wrong but the national ACCEPTED average is 33 not the matriculated average. So MSAR MCATs are inflated correct? also by how much do you think they are inflated? Most importantly is GPA inflated since according to MSAR below a 3.4 your done for.

OP has the median MCAT score for a matriculant in the US, 31.

 

[user12]

if you were killing practice tests and you KNOW you can do better, then id say retake it.

 

[SDFutureDOC]

Can I just ask a quick question, sorry if this is derailing/hijacking the thread. Is it really that difficult for California residents to get into a medical school in California?

 

[gyngyn]

Can I just ask a quick question, sorry if this is derailing/hijacking the thread. Is it really that difficult for California residents to get into a medical school in California?

Yes.

 

[bluejay456]

From my own personal experience, i got a 30 on the 8/16/13 mcats and retook this past july and scored a 36. For me the increase came because i changed my study methods. Its really up to you. If you feel that you can do better, you will be ok. I know a lot of schools have different policies on applicants who have 2 mcat scores. For example, some schools average the scores, some superscore the scores (take the highest section in each test to form the highest overall score), and some consider both scores equally. It really comes down to what you think you can do. If you were scoring 32-37 on your practice mcats i think you can retake with super concentrated studying this winter break and do better.

Also, if you are looking to improve your clinical experience I would say becoming a medical scribe is a really great idea. I currently scribe in Baltimore City and follow ED physicians as they make their rounds. Its a lot of fun, you get paid, and you see a LOT of different things. Also, since its a relatively new idea, most other applicants dont necessarily have that type of exposure so it would be something to set you apart a little bit.

Anyways dont stress too much over this whole process and good luck with everything!

 

[Dr Turkelton]

I second what @bluejay456 said. I retook a 31 and ended up with a 38. If you really believe the the 31 is not a true reflection of your abilities I would retake it. If you have the time, I would start volunteering at a free clinic to get some clinical exposure while you're studying for the mcat.

 

[Goro]

Concur

No, retaking a 31 can be a sign of poor judgement. Don't.

 

[Member 11]

Is OP's app really that weak on clinical w/ 100 hours in a nursing home and 80 hours shadowing? I know it's below average but is it bad enough to be considered a major weakness? Or is this just because it's a CA app?

 

[gyngyn]

Is OP's app really that weak on clinical w/ 100 hours in a nursing home and 80 hours shadowing? I know it's below average but is it bad enough to be considered a major weakness? Or is this just because it's a CA app?

OP has a normal, good application.
2/3's of normal good applicants leave CA to go to medical school.

 

[Member 11]

OP has a normal, good application.
2/3's of normal good applicants leave CA to go to medical school.

Ah, I was just curious because it seems like a few people thought that the OP had an obvious weakness in the clinical area, and I just posted in the WAMC forum with similar (if not less) clinical ECs and it wasn't commented on. Lucky to be a NC resident I guess.

 

[gyngyn]

Ah, I was just curious because it seems like a few people thought that the OP had an obvious weakness in the clinical area, and I just posted in the WAMC forum with similar (if not less) clinical ECs and it wasn't commented on. Lucky to be a NC resident I guess.

As a NC resident you enjoy a 28.2% IS matriculation rate compared to 15.6% in CA.

 

[Member 11]

As a NC resident you enjoy a 28.2% IS matriculation rate compared to 15.6% in CA.

An interesting stat. I figured it was somewhere in that neighborhood for NC, because we usually have a little over 900 applicants, and matriculate around 300. I feel kinda bad for the CA applicants.

 

[gyngyn]

An interesting stat. I figured it was somewhere in that neighborhood for NC, because we usually have a little over 900 applicants, and matriculate around 300. I feel kinda bad for the CA applicants.

We all do.
They are among the most accomplished exports our state produces (we are the nation's largest exporters of pre-meds). It is unlikely to change anytime soon though, because they all want to return for practice.

 

[freemontie]

As a NC resident you enjoy a 28.2% IS matriculation rate compared to 15.6% in CA.

link?

 

[gyngyn]

link?

https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/2013factstable5.pdf

 

[freemontie]

Thanks.

West Virginia seems nice...

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks.

West Virginia seems nice...

You bet.

 

[petit_haricot]

Thanks for all your pointers everyone. I've taken some time to think things over and talk to different people, and I've decided to retake. 31 is a good score, but I know I can do better and I'm committed to working hard and showing what I can really do come January. I'm changing my study strategies and targeting my weaknesses from last time, and I'm confident it'll pay off. Maybe I'll even update this thread with my new score, who knows?

I'm also going to keep working on my app by following the suggestions above-- try getting a scribe job (which sounds awesome), see if I can get a publication over the next year, shadow more broadly, etc. If there's other pointers you can give me, don't hesitate!

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

Thanks for all your pointers everyone. I've taken some time to think things over and talk to different people, and I've decided to retake. 31 is a good score, but I know I can do better and I'm committed to working hard and showing what I can really do come January. I'm changing my study strategies and targeting my weaknesses from last time, and I'm confident it'll pay off. Maybe I'll even update this thread with my new score, who knows?

I'm also going to keep working on my app by following the suggestions above-- try getting a scribe job (which sounds awesome), see if I can get a publication over the next year, shadow more broadly, etc. If there's other pointers you can give me, don't hesitate!

why don't u just take the new mcat?

 

[Aerus]

Thanks for all your pointers everyone. I've taken some time to think things over and talk to different people, and I've decided to retake. 31 is a good score, but I know I can do better and I'm committed to working hard and showing what I can really do come January. I'm changing my study strategies and targeting my weaknesses from last time, and I'm confident it'll pay off. Maybe I'll even update this thread with my new score, who knows?

I'm also going to keep working on my app by following the suggestions above-- try getting a scribe job (which sounds awesome), see if I can get a publication over the next year, shadow more broadly, etc. If there's other pointers you can give me, don't hesitate!

What is your reasoning for wanting to retake? Your average wasn't significantly higher that it would lead anyone to conclude that the 31 was due to bad luck.

 

[ridethecliche]

am I wrong but the national ACCEPTED average is 33 not the matriculated average. So MSAR MCATs are inflated correct? also by how much do you think they are inflated? Most importantly is GPA inflated since according to MSAR below a 3.4 your done for.

This is because it counts all accepted people, i.e. the rock stars with high MCAT's that got multiple acceptances are counted at all the schools they were accepted at. It's a good way for a school to drive up it's accepted mcat score when it knows that those people are going to go to better places. The matriculant number is much more reasonable.

From my own personal experience, i got a 30 on the 8/16/13 mcats and retook this past july and scored a 36. For me the increase came because i changed my study methods. Its really up to you. If you feel that you can do better, you will be ok. I know a lot of schools have different policies on applicants who have 2 mcat scores. For example, some schools average the scores, some superscore the scores (take the highest section in each test to form the highest overall score), and some consider both scores equally. It really comes down to what you think you can do. If you were scoring 32-37 on your practice mcats i think you can retake with super concentrated studying this winter break and do better.

I retook a 30 and scored a 34 taking it one year apart. It can be worth it. I just wasn't happy with the 30 and knew I could do better. I also got a 9 in VR which I knew I could fix with more targeted practice. I would have used TBR the first go around, but hindsight is 20/20.

West Virginia seems nice...

That depends... are your cousins hot?

 

[soccerusa]

I think this definitely merits a retake if you are confident you can score better. One of my closest friends got a 31 and then spent the entire summer studying again and got a 41. I realize this is n=1 but as I am going trough the application process and hearing others stories, it is clear that the mcat is immensely important. I think you should just go flat out with the studying and make sure to do much better the second time around.

 

[sunshine02]

She's a CA resident, so I don't think this would be bad judgement (OP also stated she wanted to stay in the state, which realistically would mean she's need to retake, even a 31).

Her app is really weak on the clinical, so I think this would be the first issue to tackle.

I'm sorry but how is her app weak on the clinical? She has shadowing (80 hrs is not bad, right?) and clinical volunteering.

 

[kthxbai]

I'm sorry but how is her app weak on the clinical? She has shadowing (80 hrs is not bad, right?) and clinical volunteering.

There is actually, literally zero clinical volunteering on her app. Read through her description again, because I didn't see it.

 

[sunshine02]

There is actually, literally zero clinical volunteering on her app. Read through her description again, because I didn't see it.

Volunteering: Adult ESL instructor, 1 year, 180 hours. Nursing home, 100 hours. Church pianist, 150 hours.

 

[kthxbai]

Volunteering: Adult ESL instructor, 1 year, 180 hours. Nursing home, 100 hours. Church pianist, 150 hours.

That's not clinical experience unless she witnessed medical procedures/consultations/was around people when their health was on the front line.

 

[ciestar]

That's not clinical experience unless she witnessed medical procedures/consultations/was around people when their health was on the front line.

@Goro suggests nursing home/hospice volunteering all the time for clinical experience...

 

[gyngyn]

That's not clinical experience unless she witnessed medical procedures/consultations/was around people when their health was on the front line.

I think most people would count this as clinical experience, not acute care but still clinical.

 

[kthxbai]

I think most people would count this as clinical experience, not acute care but still clinical.

That's funny, my adviser said that a nursing home counts as non-clinical community service. Then again, he'd said many things in the past that are simply untrue...

Anyway, good to know, thank you!

 

[Goro]

Concur!!! One is dealing with one of the most vulnerable parts of the entire patient population, even if they aren't technically patients. Most people do NOT like being around the elderly because it reminds them of their own mortality. Hence, working in a nursing home is, for me, a truly noble EC.

I think most people would count this as clinical experience, not acute care but still clinical.