Would love to be a clinical psychologist, but worried about $$?

[biogirl236]

I grew up with both parents as engineers so I was used to living as an "upper middle class" family and all the luxuries that afforded.

I am very passionate about helping others and feel like clinical psychology is my true calling. But what drives me away is that I might not ever make more than $70,000 a year. Is that correct? Is this the projected salary even after a PsyD or a PhD? How hard is it to get a PsyD?

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[Istilldontknow]

If thats what youre worried about, please dont pursue this field

 

[FionaGoode]

While I agree that strictly being concerned with money isn't great, I imagine this person doesn't even yet know enough about what we do to be afraid of the real terrors! Haha. With that said, I think it's a reasonable concern, especially if this person chose to get a Psyd. I don't really know much about private practice or hospitals, but you can easily find out how much she would make as a psychologist at the VA. Look at the payscales for your area and look at GS-13/schedule for pay increases. Depending on where you live, you could start out at about 70-80k for gs 12 step 1, and immediately jump up to gs 13 step 1 within a year. You can also find salaries of government workers (e.g. Professors) online since it's public money. They usually have additional income from grants, but it's a start.

 

[erg923]

I grew up with both parents as engineers so I was used to living as an "upper middle class" family and all the luxuries that afforded.

I am very passionate about helping others and feel like clinical psychology is my true calling. But what drives me away is that I might not ever make more than $70,000 a year. Is that correct? Is this the projected salary even after a PsyD or a PhD? How hard is it to get a PsyD?

You might not, but that would be no ones fault but your own.

Most of the regular posters on here who are licensed and/or in the job market are less than 10 years out and make well over that.

I would not confuse this with notion of living a "upper middle class lifestyle" however.

 

[ClinicalABA]

I'm sure your parents had to study hard to get their engineering degrees,many work hard for many years to get to the point where they could offer their children an upper middle class lifestyle. There are no shortcuts- if that's your goal, you're going to have to work for (in psychology or any other field). Many of us here are practicing psychologists and provide ourselves and our families with solid middle class/ upper middle class lifestyles.

Mid career average salary for doctoral level psychologists is ~75k. It'll take 6-10 years of graduate school and pre- and post-doc training to qualify for licensure (for phd and psyd routes). Most psyd programs are unfunded, with median student loan debt of 200,000k. It will take you many years of work to get to a salary high enough with debt low enough to live an upper middle class lifestyle if you go this route. Fully funded phd programs can offer a quicker route to financial security.

I like my job, and get paid well to do it. I worked for it (and continue to). I can say the same thing about the generally middle class people I hang out with- nurses, lawyers, real estate agents, painters, social workers, programmers, carpenters, and teachers. There are lots of options to live comfortably, but all require work. There are no shortcuts.

 

[PsyDr]

With all due respect to my colleagues, my personal belief is that low incomes in psychology are due to personality factors rather than professional factors.

IMO, Many people choose this profession because you absolutely can have a relaxed work life. It's been my experience that many express a desire to have flexibility to take their kids to school, pick them up, and be around afterward. Or some similar pursuit.

There's nothing wrong with this choice. But there are consequences.

Overall, this is a service based profession which is reimbursed hourly. More work leads to more pay. Many people don't have the drive, motivation, or aggression to make winning business choices. They are smart and have the ability to see the math behind it. There are sharks out there that are very happy to take advantage of this passivity. There are also psychologists who want to show up and work as little as possible but experience difficulty in seeing how this affects their pay. Conversely, there are highly motivated people who do very well financially.

Brutal self introspection helps. You have to compare yourself to other people who can get into psych doctorate programs. Is your drive, intelligence, risk tolerance, etc about the median for this group? Lower? Higher? What are your ultimate goals? Leisure desires? Material wants?

There is nothing wrong with any of those characteristics. IMO, problems arise when people are not honest with themselves. I see a large portion of people on Sdn say things like, " I am 100% committed to pursuing psychology, couldn't be more driven, and my life depends on it.", but then they can't be bothered to Google very available information, or do simple work about the subject for themselves. Those ideas are in conflict with their behavior. Grad schools don't care about how much you want something. They want to see what you'll do. Employers don't care how good a game you talk. They want you to make money by seeing patients.

I'm in the upper class by income. Nice houses, a decent car, etc. You'll also notice I ended posting after business hours on a Friday and before business hours on a Saturday.

 

[Rivi]

I am a new psychologist and I make more than that. If you go to a funded program (with no or minimal student loan debt) and research the job market, those goals are attainable.

 

[MCParent]

If thats what youre worried about, please dont pursue this field

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being concerned about income after pursuing a degree. It is not somehow enlightened to not be concerned about this.

I wouldn't do this work for $70k either. You should make more than that, on top of not having debt, coming from a funded program. You can make well, well over this, as PSYDR says.

 

[WisNeuro]

I started out way above that right out of postdoc. Most of the people I see making at or under 70k are people from diploma mills who aren't competitive for decent positions.

 

[EmotRegulation]

Lets all remember it depends on the type of career you have. Many assistant professor positions in psychology departments still start under 70K, depending on area and cost of living, and people getting those jobs aren't people from diploma mills.

 

[G Costanza]

I have yet to meet a newly licensed psychologist at a UCC who makes more than 70k.

 

[biogirl236]

The salary is not the primary deciding factor for whether or not I pursue this field. I am not "in it for the money". I'm just trying to gauge reimbursement as I consider multiple career paths and assure that my chosen career path aligns with the type of lifestyle I need to get by.

What drives me toward clinical psychology is being able to touch patients and impact their lives. I am an extremely empathetic and compassionate person (possibly to a fault) and would probably gain a lot of fulfillment from this career. I have always been overly concerned with how people, even strangers are dealing with traumatic events. I have also always been interested in cognitive processes, the biochemical basis of these, and how all of this influences human behavior. It would be hard for me to consider any other career path as there are few, if any that have such an direct influence on one's emotional wellbeing. I am very aware of of the impact poor mental health has on one's functioning.

That being said, I really appreciate any insight from those in the field who have been working for some time. I am curious as to what a day in the life of a clinical psychologist is like, how the hours are, and basically what to expect. Thank you.

 

[erg923]

That being said, I really appreciate any insight from those in the field who have been working for some time. I am curious as to what a day in the life of a clinical psychologist is like, how the hours are, and basically what to expect. Thank you.

Incredibly dependent on setting, employer (or private practice), duties/responsibilities, and subfield. Narrow the question and you will get better responses.

I am happy to cut and paste my current jobs from my vita/resume in a private message to you...and you can ask questions from there.

 

[MCParent]

I have yet to meet a newly licensed psychologist at a UCC who makes more than 70k.

Those jobs *can be* ridiculously low pay. I also know UCC folks who make solid money with really nice Uni benefits, though.

 

[erg923]

The salary is not the primary deciding factor for whether or not I pursue this field. I am not "in it for the money". I'm just trying to gauge reimbursement as I consider multiple career paths and assure that my chosen career path aligns with the type of lifestyle I need to get by.

What drives me toward clinical psychology is being able to touch patients and impact their lives. I am an extremely empathetic and compassionate person (possibly to a fault) and would probably gain a lot of fulfillment from this career. I have always been overly concerned with how people, even strangers are dealing with traumatic events. I have also always been interested in cognitive processes, the biochemical basis of these, and how all of this influences human behavior. It would be hard for me to consider any other career path as there are few, if any that have such an direct influence on one's emotional wellbeing. I am very aware of of the impact poor mental health has on one's functioning.

That being said, I really appreciate any insight from those in the field who have been working for some time. I am curious as to what a day in the life of a clinical psychologist is like, how the hours are, and basically what to expect. Thank you.

And...for a little perspective:

I, myself, made well over $100,000 this past tax year (pre-tax)- 4 years post Ph.D. in a Midwestern State.

However, my wife teaches in the local Roman Catholic archdiocese. Her take-home pay is pretty abysmal, at least in my opinion. But I suppose it's not that much different from any other school systems in the country? It covers the cost of childcare and covers the cost of Catholic education for our two small children (in the future) but that is about all. We live what I would call a solidly "middle class" existence-especially after my wife's student loans! This means...we do NOT live paycheck-to-paycheck, have a nice house, two cars, and don't have to ration groceries or other domestic and/or household items or issues. However, we are certainly not able to afford anything "fancy", unlike like my brother.

And by the way, brother has a bachelors degree in "marketing" and works in sales...

 

[G Costanza]

Those jobs *can be* ridiculously low pay. I also know UCC folks who make solid money with really nice Uni benefits, though.

Yep. My total compensation is pretty good but salary not so much. And I'm at a D1 R1 school in a major city. The only way you're hitting over 100k in most UCCs is to become the director.

I think many people gravitate towards UCCs despite lower pay because of the opportunity for training and laid back atmosphere. Unfortunately, with increasing enrollments and lower budgets, the laid back part seems to be going by the wayside. UCCs are looking more like private practice settings seeing 30 clients/week with pressure from admins to "do more with less."

 

[Sanman]

The answers here have been pretty good and I can tell you that there are ways of making more than 75k doing just about anything if you are willing to do the work. If you want to be an associate at someone else's private practice taking insurance or taking a slafosd position then 70-80k works. I know people that started at 40k licensed (cmhc, particularly mean pp) and I started in the mid 80s and make more than that now. I also work 60 hrs a wk. I may go closer to the average, but that is because my wife makes corporate money and someone will nwe'd to be at home. Life choices. I also live a middle to upper middle class lifestyle. The thing to rink about...a little empathy is good, but too much is bad. Psychologists need boundaries and not enforcing them will cost you time and money. Decide if saying no to people in need is in your skillet or you may find yourself doing a lot of free work.

 

[PsychBoxe]

I found geographic flexibility to be a HUGE factor. I focused my search on hospitals/academic health centers. I was offered a position in the Northeast with a salary of 52k with additional opportunities to come from private practice within the hospital. It's a prestigious institution, so they were able to pay incredibly low because they thought the affiliation made for a robust private practice. Not my interest, I looked all over the country. I found another position in a hospital in the Midwest with an annual salary of over 100k - this was fresh out of licensure. Geographic flexibility is key to finding a range of job opportunities and associated benefits.

 

[WisNeuro]

Ah, I should apologize and edit my past response. My comments were primarily for clinical positions. Unfortunately, starting academic positions range fairly wide, with some starting salaries that are quite low. You can thank our country's turn to anti-science and anti-education for that one. But, if you're looking for a primarily clinical position, I wouldn't even start negotiating with someone if they offered lower than 90k at this point in my career.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

With all due respect to my colleagues, my personal belief is that low incomes in psychology are due to personality factors rather than professional factors.

IMO, Many people choose this profession because you absolutely can have a relaxed work life. It's been my experience that many express a desire to have flexibility to take their kids to school, pick them up, and be around afterward. Or some similar pursuit.

There's nothing wrong with this choice. But there are consequences.

Overall, this is a service based profession which is reimbursed hourly. More work leads to more pay. Many people don't have the drive, motivation, or aggression to make winning business choices. They are smart and have the ability to see the math behind it. There are sharks out there that are very happy to take advantage of this passivity. There are also psychologists who want to show up and work as little as possible but experience difficulty in seeing how this affects their pay. Conversely, there are highly motivated people who do very well financially.

Brutal self introspection helps. You have to compare yourself to other people who can get into psych doctorate programs. Is your drive, intelligence, risk tolerance, etc about the median for this group? Lower? Higher? What are your ultimate goals? Leisure desires? Material wants?

There is nothing wrong with any of those characteristics. IMO, problems arise when people are not honest with themselves. I see a large portion of people on Sdn say things like, " I am 100% committed to pursuing psychology, couldn't be more driven, and my life depends on it.", but then they can't be bothered to Google very available information, or do simple work about the subject for themselves. Those ideas are in conflict with their behavior. Grad schools don't care about how much you want something. They want to see what you'll do. Employers don't care how good a game you talk. They want you to make money by seeing patients.

I'm in the upper class by income. Nice houses, a decent car, etc. You'll also notice I ended posting after business hours on a Friday and before business hours on a Saturday.

I would not disagree. A large part relates to how much you're wanting to work. It's very possible to make >$70k/year in this field working 40 hours/week. Heck, it's possible to make $100k sticking to 40-45 hours/week, if you're geographically flexible. And for many people (myself included at the moment), that's quite fine.

If you want to make more than that, the opportunities are there, but you need to seek them out, and you need to put in the time. The insurance reimbursement rates could be better, but we in many ways have ourselves to blame for that, too. We've only, as a field, fairly recently begun getting more seriously involved in the lobbying and other political efforts needed to address reimbursement. Perhaps because for quite a while, it just didn't seem to be of significant concern to many practitioners.

 

[biogirl236]

After a lot of research, I am very certain I will pursue a career in psychology. Of concern, however, is my GPA. What is the minimum GPA requirement to get accepted to grad school to be a clinical psychologist, neuropsychologist, or possibly rehabilitation psychologist? What are they looking for in terms of academic performance and research experience? Does having a low undergraduate GPA (sub-3.0) automatically close you out of these programs? My GPA is not ideal at the moment, but I am working on a steady upward trend (especially as I switch from biology to psychology). Are there any other options for compensating for a low undergraduate GPA?

 

[Ollie123]

After a lot of research, I am very certain I will pursue a career in psychology. Of concern, however, is my GPA. What is the minimum GPA requirement to get accepted to grad school to be a clinical psychologist, neuropsychologist, or possibly rehabilitation psychologist? What are they looking for in terms of academic performance and research experience? Does having a low undergraduate GPA (sub-3.0) automatically close you out of these programs? My GPA is not ideal at the moment, but I am working on a steady upward trend. Are there any other options for compensating for a low undergraduate GPA?

Do everything you can to pull it up - over 3.0 will definitely make things go much more smoothly. In these cases, we typically recommend pursuing a separate master's before trying to enter a doctoral program. It makes the process take longer, but you will need to prove you can hack it in harder coursework (usually the concern with low UG GPAs) and it would give you the opportunity to build research experience.

There is no "minimum" for acceptance, but competition is stiff at any but the worst schools (the ones we usually recommend people consider other fields rather than attend). The admission process is VERY different from undergrad - especially on the PhD side of things. Ideally, you want a GPA over 3.5 (and honestly once you cross that threshold it probably doesn't matter much as other factors matter more). Especially with a low GPA you will want to make sure you do VERY well on the GRE since that can help compensate to an extent. The main things are networking and experience. Especially if you are applying with around a 3.0 - you are basically going to be ruled out. You want something on your CV that is going to cause them to make an exception and say "Well, her GPA isn't very good but WOW she published an independent project in <insert prestigious journal here> as first author."

There is no specific criterion or activity I can list that will guarantee admission. All I can really say is that even if you have "Good" credentials across the board, psych grad programs are tough to get into. Great credentials is really the expectation. We see a lot of people fall flat when they have a few red flags (very low GPA/terrible GREs/etc.) and think that it is mitigated by being "pretty good" on other things. Nope - you'll need something that helps you stand out.

 

[PikminOC]

many psychologist I know hire therapists and expand their practice. This may a good way to earn more

 

[erg923]

Does having a low undergraduate GPA (sub-3.0) automatically close you out of these programs?

Doctoral programs, certainly. Most masters program in psychology too, but not all.

Get it above 3.0 and KILL the GRE.

 

[Sanman]

It may not be a straight path with that low of a gpa. Above 3.5 is competitive for good programs. Above 3.0 and alot of experience (research, clinical, etc) worKS though. As for insurance reimbursements, psychology has one foot in the medical model and one foot out. This can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on how you make your money.

 

[Hope4Grad]

Okay, for all of these people making 100k or more - what was your path? Did you do a formal postdoc and stay in the geographic area? Did you move to a city where the market could handle higher fees? What was your referral source and how did you get clients? Did you start in a private practice right away (hang a shingle) or did you take a job and slowly over the years go to part time then fully into a private practice? What was your path? The field does a great job of delineating a straightforward path until Internship. What is the transition from Internship to 100k and above like??

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Moved to APA-acred Uni-based Psy.D.
Moved to APA-acred internship
Moved to 2yr rehab-neuro fellowship at R1 AMC
Moved to R1 AMC faculty position w. private practice.

Developing a good reputation, negotiating your rates w each insurance company, and limiting what insurance panels you join can all help. You will have to learn the business side and depending on how well you do that will dictate revenue FAR more than anything you do clinically.

 

[WisNeuro]

APA Accredited PhD, APA accredited internship, APA accredited 2 year neuro postdoc. Geographic flexibility in training to choose the best available helps. Reputation is key. Also, not having any debt helps to develop some passive income streams to take some pressure off.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Okay, for all of these people making 100k or more - what was your path? Did you do a formal postdoc and stay in the geographic area? Did you move to a city where the market could handle higher fees? What was your referral source and how did you get clients? Did you start in a private practice right away (hang a shingle) or did you take a job and slowly over the years go to part time then fully into a private practice? What was your path? The field does a great job of delineating a straightforward path until Internship. What is the transition from Internship to 100k and above like??

I did postdoc in area where I did my internship. Only made about 40k that year. They offered me 50k after I was licensed so I started looking around the country with a target of 80k. Got a job pretty quickly in an underserved area because of my solid adolescent experience. A couple years later I took a job starting at 95k in another part of this state with loan repayment. I quickly opted into a production based compensation and am well over six figures. A few more years here paying down debt and next step is starting my own company in another underserved part of the country. Not likely I could accomplish much of this in LA where I got my doctorate and the competition is so fierce.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Moved to APA-acred Uni-based Psy.D.
Moved to APA-acred internship
Moved to 2yr rehab-neuro fellowship at R1 AMC
Moved to R1 AMC faculty position w. private practice.

Developing a good reputation, negotiating your rates w each insurance company, and limiting what insurance panels you join can all help. You will have to learn the business side and depending on how well you do that will dictate revenue FAR more than anything you do clinically.

I think I might just see a pattern there.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Being geographically flexible was absolutely key for being able to secure the best training opportunities. I did my training in a geographically desired area, so the competition for internship spots was stupid high because most people didn't want to leave the area. Internship is somewhat of a crapshoot now, but it still needs to be APA-acred, so most people have to move to make that happen. Fellowship is what mattered the most for me, but it depends on your area of foci and what you want to do afterwards. Lastly, minimize debt at all times because that greatly impacts what jobs you can consider and what you can afford once you get out.

 

[IT514]

Okay, for all of these people making 100k or more - what was your path? Did you do a formal postdoc and stay in the geographic area? Did you move to a city where the market could handle higher fees? What was your referral source and how did you get clients? Did you start in a private practice right away (hang a shingle) or did you take a job and slowly over the years go to part time then fully into a private practice? What was your path? The field does a great job of delineating a straightforward path until Internship. What is the transition from Internship to 100k and above like??

What others have said...APA program at an at-least decent school, APA internship, good fellowship. Along the way, making myself a desirable hire to all of these places, doing well in my niche, and ultimately saying no to some offers and walking away only to have them come back. I'm not in a city but in a very good healthcare system, well ahead of the curve nationally, that understands billing and reimbursement.

 

[PsyDr]

Apa program, decent post doc. Started my private practice within 6 months of finishing post doc with $2k to my name, and no family or spouse support. Choices were to make it or go homeless. Worked 90+ hour weeks. Learned the business as I went. Took innumerable hits to my pride with no one to blame but myself. Learned. Balanced personality traits with business direction.

Doesn't sound like a planned thing? Because it's not. I'm still learning. Thats one of the things about business.

 

[Sanman]

My path was apa program and internship. I opted for a job (two actually) over a post-op for personal reasons and financial reasons (moving to the Midwest for $25k at post-doc seemed rather off putting). Moved again following licensure to another state for my then gf/now wife and started at a small practice for $85k, which quickly became $95k. Deciding what my next move is now as I my wife and I have more money than time (my wife makes a good bit more than me).

A tip, 100k is not that hard if you are willing to make sacrifices in this career. The hard part for me comes now that I am locked into a life. Could be worse frankly.

 

[erg923]

Okay, for all of these people making 100k or more - what was your path? Did you do a formal postdoc and stay in the geographic area? Did you move to a city where the market could handle higher fees? What was your referral source and how did you get clients? Did you start in a private practice right away (hang a shingle) or did you take a job and slowly over the years go to part time then fully into a private practice? What was your path? The field does a great job of delineating a straightforward path until Internship. What is the transition from Internship to 100k and above like??

We decided to settle in my hometown due to existing friends and the family infrastructure (not where I went to grad school). Obtained academic job in a psychology department (full-time Assistant Prof) at a small Catholic college-not a formal post-doc. There was combination of luck and timing involved here. Never had a private clinical practice (nor an interest in such). I left after one year, mostly due to money.

Currently: VA job and disability appeal file review for commercial carriers (Metlife, Cigna, Aetna, Unum, AFLAC, etc).

Connection, connections, connections, networking, etc. Can not emphasize this enough.

 

[ClinicalABA]

Okay, for all of these people making 100k or more - what was your path? Did you do a formal postdoc and stay in the geographic area? Did you move to a city where the market could handle higher fees? What was your referral source and how did you get clients? Did you start in a private practice right away (hang a shingle) or did you take a job and slowly over the years go to part time then fully into a private practice? What was your path? The field does a great job of delineating a straightforward path until Internship. What is the transition from Internship to 100k and above like??

-Did APA accredited PhD program without having to move (got lucky with that one- I was working at a facility where there was a practica student from the doctoral program, and I did some research with her and she introduced mr to faculty)
-Moved ~2 hours away for APA Accredited internship at branch of an agency where I had previously did practica
-Took an actual job where I got supervision towards licensure. This was at a facility owned/operated by my graduate program mentors friends and colleagues from her time in graduate school. Didn't have to move for this
-"recruited" back to agency where I did pre-doc internship. Didn't have to move for this
-started a family (2 kiddos) and decide we didn't really like the area where we lived, so we moved back to where we my wife and I did undergrad (and I did graduate school). Commuted to job 1.75 hours away for a few months. Through networking and connections, a local agency got word that I was in the area and looking, and they recruited me. After a few years, I hit the 100k mark (aprox 6-7 years post PhD)
-through networking and connections, got and evening adjunct gig in a counseling and ABA grad program, adding ~10-15k per year.
- company experienced some major financial problems and I got laid off. Scary, but it was AWESOME having a few months off. Through connections/networking, got a job pretty quickly. Got involved in the state ABA organization, where I met the man who is now my boss (having left the last job because I didn't like the company, taking a 25% pay cut, but it was so worth it. Still 6 figure income).

Some things that helped-
-networking!!- meet everyone you can in the field, every chance you get. Remember them, make a connection, go out of your way to be known.mGetvinvolved with state and regional professional organizations, run for officer spots (most have student or early career reps), get involved with conference planning committees, etc. The goal should be for potential employers to know who you are before you even apply.
-don't say "no" when your bosses ask you if you want a new experience. If you aren't sure if you can do it, say "I'd love to do that for you, how can I learn how?"
-the more credentials/licenses you can acquire, the more valuable you are to an employer, and the more they will pay you. As a lic. Psych in 2 states, as well as a BCBA and Lic behavior analyst, I can access multiple funding sources
-seek out training in and develop administrative and supervisory skills- there's a lot of clinicians out there, but not a lot with management skills and knowledge of funding and regulatory issues.

 

[ClinicalABA]

Connection, connections, connections, networking, etc. Can not emphasize this enough.

This. Soooo important

 

[BuckeyeLove]

apa accredited everything. formal post doc with solid training that i am forever grateful for. govt gig that allows flexibility; real flexibility (for real, like this is important). mentors with solid business acumen. being ok with working (this, surprisingly is not model). connections man. oh my god. would not be anywhere without them. also, as ive said before, not being a characterological hot mess. also, a willingness to always be a student. constantly trying to learn more from those that know their stuff.

 

[Pragma]

Okay, for all of these people making 100k or more - what was your path? Did you do a formal postdoc and stay in the geographic area? Did you move to a city where the market could handle higher fees? What was your referral source and how did you get clients? Did you start in a private practice right away (hang a shingle) or did you take a job and slowly over the years go to part time then fully into a private practice? What was your path? The field does a great job of delineating a straightforward path until Internship. What is the transition from Internship to 100k and above like??

APA program, APA internship, 2-year AMC postdoc, tenure track faculty job after + part time hospital work.

Networking in my area helped secure good job opportunities as well as ongoing side projects for more compensation. By being visible and active, I get recruited for things I didn't know were possible before.

 

[deleted343839]

Okay, for all of these people making 100k or more - what was your path?

Basically what Pragma said. I live in a large metro area with decent salary benchmarks. Thanks to networking, I was recruited for a (non-advertised) faculty job while still on postdoc. Since then my base salary has never been under $100K.

 

[Pragma]

Basically what Pragma said. I live in a large metro area with decent salary benchmarks. Thanks to networking, I was recruited for a (non-advertised) faculty job while still on postdoc. Since then my base salary has never been under $100K.

To clarify, my base is not over 100k (9 month contract as a TT faculty) but what I do on the side puts me in the low-mid 100's depending on the year.

 

[smalltownpsych]

So it seems that many of the regular posters here who are psychologists clear 100k. Makes me wonder about the salary data from various sources and why it seems to be an underestimate. It is important for us to have better data as we are negotiating salaries.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

So it seems that many of the regular posters here who are psychologists clear 100k. Makes me wonder about the salary data from various sources and why it seems to be an underestimate. It is important for us to have better data as we are negotiating salaries.

Part of the issue involves quasi-FT positions, whether they are 9-mon faculty gigs and/or clinicians who work multiple places. There are also a lot of semi-retired folks who may work a few days a week. Add in people who work in saturated markets and/or aren't competitive for jobs....and you have a lot of people pulling down the average.

 

[WisNeuro]

So it seems that many of the regular posters here who are psychologists clear 100k. Makes me wonder about the salary data from various sources and why it seems to be an underestimate. It is important for us to have better data as we are negotiating salaries.

I would imagine the "Old Guard" may be qualitatively different than the field as a whole. Plenty of folks out there from crap programs, mounds of debt, and willing to accept any old job that is thrown their way. Meanwhile, there are those of us who would laugh in a potential employers face if they tried to offer us 70k for FT clinical work.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Agreed.

We aren't 1%'ers (yet!)...but I think most of us are doing okay. I have mostly first world problems, so it could be a lot worse. My current FWP is a sensor on my convertible is malfunctioning, so I couldn't put my top down twice last week!

 

[G Costanza]

It also seems like many of those making over 100k are involved with assessment rather FT therapy. Or said another way, provide a service a master's level clinician cannot. At least that's what I'm taking away from this thread.

 

[Sanman]

There is money is therapy if you know how to structure it. I do a good amount of therapy and do fine. Payor source and length of session make a huge difference.

For a quick reference, there was an outpt clinic offering 60/40 split near me on billable hours that advertised 70-75k average for a psychologist and 60-65k for an msw.

One thing I would say is that the average here seems to skew toward primary income earners vs secondary income earners. Motivation to earn more is the other half of the issue, whether through more work hours or a better business arrangement.

 

[G Costanza]

There is money is therapy if you know how to structure it. I do a good amount of therapy and do fine. Payor source and length of session make a huge difference.

For a quick reference, there was an outpt clinic offering 60/40 split near me on billable hours that advertised 70-75k average for a psychologist and 60-65k for an msw.

One thing I would say is that the average here seems to skew toward primary income earners vs secondary income earners. Motivation to earn more is the other half of the issue, whether through more work hours or a better business arrangement.

I have no doubt that someone with good business sense and a willingness to work the right hours could make over 100k doing therapy. I just don't know anyone doing it outside of a NYC practice.

The only FT therapists I know making over 100k are the ones also taking the 40% from other therapists.

 

[smalltownpsych]

It also seems like many of those making over 100k are involved with assessment rather FT therapy. Or said another way, provide a service a master's level clinician cannot. At least that's what I'm taking away from this thread.

I do therapy primarily and have no problem making over 100k. The assessments help keep my income rolling especially when I can bill for report writing during a no show and also helps generate business, but without any assessment at all I would still clear that mark.

 

[erg923]

Okay, for all of these people making 100k or more - what was your path? Did you do a formal postdoc and stay in the geographic area? Did you move to a city where the market could handle higher fees? What was your referral source and how did you get clients? Did you start in a private practice right away (hang a shingle) or did you take a job and slowly over the years go to part time then fully into a private practice? What was your path? The field does a great job of delineating a straightforward path until Internship. What is the transition from Internship to 100k and above like??

It also seems like many of those making over 100k are involved with assessment rather FT therapy. Or said another way, provide a service a master's level clinician cannot. At least that's what I'm taking away from this thread.

I will fully admit I have looked for the past of least resistance.

I was not interested in paying overhead for a separate office, did not want to do more traditional clinical work, and generally wanted to something with high hourly rates but didn't demand/necessitate more than a 5 hours/week. I wanted to work smart, not really more.