Would you choose KGI's new pharmacy school over MCPHS

[Aero z]

Hi all,
I have been accepted into MCPHS Manchester/Worcester and KGI Pharmacy in Claremont CA. I really need someone's opinion of what school would you attend if you were in the same situation I am in right now!

Here are some facts about both schools.

MCPHS Manchester/Worcester:
- Accelerated 3 year around program
- Only break is winter break and a few days between semesters
- There are number of threads here on sd, with mixed reviews about MCPHS accelerated program, some good and some bad which scares me away as I do not want to fail my classes or fall behind
- Weather is NOT california nice
- Will be cheaper because it's one year less
- Fully accredited

KGI Pharmacy
- It's a new school, so not fully accredited, but lets say they get candidate status, I don't think they will have problem obtaining accreditation once the first class graduates. ACPE only gives candidate status if they are very certain the school will be able to get accreditation.
- Easier than MCPHS and they focus on group/active learning which I don't know if it's beneficial or not for pharmacy student because there aren't many schools trying this out.
- Typical 4 year program
- I love Cali weather
- School is focused on Biotechnology which is an awesome approach and make students more ready if they desire to work for pharmaceutical companies which I want to do.

So if you were in my situation which school would you choose and why?

I really appreciate everyone's input. I have been thinking about which school to attend for almost a month and i cannot decide, it's too hard of a decision!

Thanks again,
Shaida

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[useruseruser]

Go to the more established school: MCPHS. They probably have better opportunities in terms of rotation selection, reputation, alumni network, etc etc. Plus they're fully accredited so you never have to worry about wasting time/money on a school that could potentially fail (e.g. Hawaii College of Pharmacy). It's accreditation also generally ensures that its curriculum will properly prepare you to pass your boards (why go to an "easier" school if you're potentially setting yourself up for failure, you know?).

 

[oldstock]

Hi all,
I have been accepted into MCPHS Manchester/Worcester and KGI Pharmacy in Claremont CA. I really need someone's opinion of what school would you attend if you were in the same situation I am in right now!

Here are some facts about both schools.

MCPHS Manchester/Worcester:
- Accelerated 3 year around program
- Only break is winter break and a few days between semesters
- There are number of threads here on sd, with mixed reviews about MCPHS accelerated program, some good and some bad which scares me away as I do not want to fail my classes or fall behind
- Weather is NOT california nice
- Will be cheaper because it's one year less
- Fully accredited

KGI Pharmacy
- It's a new school, so not fully accredited, but lets say they get candidate status, I don't think they will have problem obtaining accreditation once the first class graduates. ACPE only gives candidate status if they are very certain the school will be able to get accreditation.
- Easier than MCPHS and they focus on group/active learning which I don't know if it's beneficial or not for pharmacy student because there aren't many schools trying this out.
- Typical 4 year program
- I love Cali weather
- School is focused on Biotechnology which is an awesome approach and make students more ready if they desire to work for pharmaceutical companies which I want to do.

So if you were in my situation which school would you choose and why?

I really appreciate everyone's input. I have been thinking about which school to attend for almost a month and i cannot decide, it's too hard of a decision!

Thanks again,
Shaida

I vote for MCP b/c :

-it is cheaper : big student debts are no fun

-it is quicker : 3 year (vs 4 yr) = you can start to make money / residency quicker

-fully accredited = already established

-traditional teaching style : unless you like the group learning style so much (like you've pointed out, not many out there are trying this one... I would go with the old but already proven one)

-if you study hard and regularly and get help early from professors, I think you would at least pass everything. Failing is not a concern here

-not-so-nice / non-Cali weather is not a concern : you will finish this one early in 3 years then you can go back to Cali and enjoy the weather for the rest of your life

-I think you will have as much chance to go to biopharma at MCPHS as KGI. The focus is pharmacy school, so let's focus on that first


I think the big reason it is hard for you b/c you probably are trying to find reasons to stay in California. Finish pharmacy school and you can go back there anytime later

 

[radio frequency]

I doubt Keck is actually easier, based on what I've seen of their curriculum plans (quick overview of their website). This is part of the well-respected Claremont Colleges system. They probably are choosing good students for this school as it would fly in the face of the Claremont Colleges' reputation to choose poor students. KGI will get accreditation. It's the only new school I've heard of in recent years where I was absolutely positive that would happen.

This is one of the only times I've thought a new school might actually be better than an existing school, but do consider rotation availability as that is very very important. Also consider cost: also very important.

As far as active learning, I've heard mixed reviews. Tons of pharmacy schools use it; it's not unproven at all. Supposedly it has better learning outcomes, but I've never used it so I don't have an opinion on it personally.

Overall, I'm not sure which I'd choose. There are advantages to four year and three year programs. It's hard to say which would be better. I guess I'd choose based on total cost (including cost of living) alone.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Three year schools are notoriously difficult and have high fail out rates.

 

[Aero z]

Three year schools are notoriously difficult and have high fail out rates.

Thanks for the response, I don't look at it totally being a 3 year program. The reason being is that I will not have summer break which somewhat counts as a semester. At MCPHS accelerated program, they have two fall, two spring, and two summer semester consisting of 10 and 12 week courses. So combining that, I think it is equivalent to 3 years at 4 year programs but I guess not having break in between make it difficult. Please correct me if I am wrong about this!

 

[Aero z]

I doubt Keck is actually easier, based on what I've seen of their curriculum plans (quick overview of their website). This is part of the well-respected Claremont Colleges system. They probably are choosing good students for this school as it would fly in the face of the Claremont Colleges' reputation to choose poor students. KGI will get accreditation. It's the only new school I've heard of in recent years where I was absolutely positive that would happen.

This is one of the only times I've thought a new school might actually be better than an existing school, but do consider rotation availability as that is very very important. Also consider cost: also very important.

As far as active learning, I've heard mixed reviews. Tons of pharmacy schools use it; it's not unproven at all. Supposedly it has better learning outcomes, but I've never used it so I don't have an opinion on it personally.

Overall, I'm not sure which I'd choose. There are advantages to four year and three year programs. It's hard to say which would be better. I guess I'd choose based on total cost (including cost of living) alone.

Thanks for response really appreciate your input. You might be absolutely right, Pharmacy school is not easy all together and I just read KGI's student hand book which states students MUST maintain a GPA of 3.0 which mean no grades below B. So being easier may be not but if you fail a test or get a low grade on a test, they allow you to take it once more which helps. At the interview, they were saying they are giving student more than one chance to make sure students get the information and have the fundamentals before moving on and learning others things that depends on things previously learned.

 

[Aero z]

I vote for MCP b/c :

-it is cheaper : big student debts are no fun

-it is quicker : 3 year (vs 4 yr) = you can start to make money / residency quicker

-fully accredited = already established

-traditional teaching style : unless you like the group learning style so much (like you've pointed out, not many out there are trying this one... I would go with the old but already proven one)

-if you study hard and regularly and get help early from professors, I think you would at least pass everything. Failing is not a concern here

-not-so-nice / non-Cali weather is not a concern : you will finish this one early in 3 years then you can go back to Cali and enjoy the weather for the rest of your life

-I think you will have as much chance to go to biopharma at MCPHS as KGI. The focus is pharmacy school, so let's focus on that first


I think the big reason it is hard for you b/c you probably are trying to find reasons to stay in California. Finish pharmacy school and you can go back there anytime later

When I got my associate degree, I wanted to go to MCPHS but then I went for my BS in bio and wanted to do PA. but then after volunteering at pharmacy and doctors office, I wanted it do pharmacy again so I always thought of attending MCPHS. I just wish I know couple of students, one doing good and may be others not on the top of their class just to get their opinion on the program.

 

[oldstock]

Thanks for response really appreciate your input. You might be absolutely right, Pharmacy school is not easy all together and I just read KGI's student hand book which states students MUST maintain a GPA of 3.0 which mean no grades below B. So being easier may be not but if you fail a test or get a low grade on a test, they allow you to take it once more which helps. At the interview, they were saying they are giving student more than one chance to make sure students get the information and have the fundamentals before moving on and learning others things that depends on things previously learned.

that is spelled "E-A-S-Y" bro !!

IMHO KGI's required minimum of 3.0 GPA is a nothing which does not mean anything since you can take things more than once. If you could take a test more than once and could not get an A or B, I do not know when you are going to get A or B.

A side note :

But KGI is not the only one. From what I have read, these days more and more schools give students chances for academic remediation, probably to improve their attribution / graduation rate and thus improve their ranking as there are more and more schools around. Just like law schools, the next thing we see would probably be grade inflation and / or academic forgiveness. It only takes one school to start doing this, and soon everyone will be doing the same thing as they do not want to put their students at "disadvantaged" positions compared to students from other schools. And soon GPA would be a useless metric to measure students' academic performance. I have also read that some schools have already started doing pass / fail instead of tradition A/B/C/D/F grading system (e.g. UCSD ?)

I have heard from older pharmacists / PharmDs that it used to be that you could not retake a test or a class if you got a low grade or failed. If you failed a class, you would fall back a year and be placed on probation and have to retake the class over again next year. If you failed a class twice or fail two or three classes, you got suspended or kicked out. Most schools also required students to maintain a minimum of 2.5 or above. Outside of pharmacy, most professional or graduate programs do this too.

There have been talks about admission standards being lowered due to more and more schools. Is this evidence that academic standards have started getting lowered too ? If this is the case, the profession will be negative affected and pharmacy job market will be even tighter as there is almost nothing there to "weed out" weak students.

 

[radio frequency]

Here's something I saw about active learning that you may find interesting:
http://news.sciencemag.org/educatio...ust-boring-theyre-ineffective-too-study-finds

One other note: MCPHS and other three year schools may be harder, but not in the way you think. The students their don't take more credit hours per semester than at other schools (I'm at a four year school and semester hours up to 24-ish are not unheard of -- not to say that's a good idea, but it does happen sometimes).

The hard part of a three year school is that you don't get summers off so you may be more prone to burn out. Also, getting enough intern hours could be more of a challenge at a three year school as you don't get summers to boost your work hour numbers.

As for the comment above about As and Bs always being easy to get...wait until you're in school before judging. This isn't undergrad anymore...that said, my school is pretty old school about passing grades and we don't really get second chances as described. But getting As and Bs in every class would be a significant challenge (this from somebody who only had one B- and no Cs before pharmacy school).

 

[oldstock]

Here's something I saw about active learning that you may find interesting:
http://news.sciencemag.org/educatio...ust-boring-theyre-ineffective-too-study-finds

One other note: MCPHS and other schools may be harder, but not in the way you think. Then students don't take more credit hours per semester than at other schools (I'm at a four year school and semester hours up to 24-ish are not unheard of -- not to say that's a good idea, but it does happen sometimes).

The hard part of a three year school is that you don't get summers off so you may be more prone to burn out. Also, getting enough intern hours could be more of a challenge at a three year school as you don't get summers to boost your work hour numbers.

As for the comment above about As and Bs always being easy to get...wait until you're in school before judging. This isn't undergrad anymore...that said, my school is pretty old school about passing grades and we don't really get second chances as described. But getting As and Bs in every class would be a significant challenge (this from somebody who only had one B- and no Cs before pharmacy school).

I agree that it would be hard to get all A's and B's in graduate / professional programs. But don't you think it would be easy to do that if students are allowed to retake a test twice (even different test the second time) ??

 

[Amicable Angora]

I agree that it would be hard to get all A's and B's in graduate / professional programs. But don't you think it would be easy to do that if students are allowed to retake a test twice (even different test the second time) ??

Being able to retake tests would give a serious advantage.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Thanks for the response, I don't look at it totally being a 3 year program. The reason being is that I will not have summer break which somewhat counts as a semester. At MCPHS accelerated program, they have two fall, two spring, and two summer semester consisting of 10 and 12 week courses. So combining that, I think it is equivalent to 3 years at 4 year programs but I guess not having break in between make it difficult. Please correct me if I am wrong about this!

I give a lot of advice on this forum, but the only one that I'm fairly pushy about is the warning about accelerated/3 year programs. They are substantially harder to do well or even pass. Ask yourself if you would rather take the four years and do well, or run the risk, even if it's only 10%, of failing out because you went to a 3 year program.

 

[radio frequency]

I agree that it would be hard to get all A's and B's in graduate / professional programs. But don't you think it would be easy to do that if students are allowed to retake a test twice (even different test the second time) ??

It's so hard to say; I think curriculum specifics may vary a lot between institutions. I think it would probably be more likely, but I just can't make that call without being in a program like that...