Would you get booted out of med school for using marijuana?

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geretts

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If you tested positive during the preclinical years, would they kick you out?

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probably not, not many schools drug test any way. If they did, they would likely warn you well ahead of time and you would be an idiot if you still failed that.
 
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Why would they? They can't prove you've never vacationed to someplace it's legal and smoked there.

Side note: I know a premed in college who's one of the heaviest stoners I've met, doodles in half his classes, skips the other half, has only ever received one A- (differential eqs), researches, 31 MCAT - not super impressive but annoys me how I have to work my butt off to get half the grades he gets
 
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I think tobacco use is a huge red flag, demonstrating lack of intelligence or self-control. But at the same time the idea of being tested for use of a legal substance in my free time that hadn't interfered with my ability to complete my job? That seems unprofessional.

If we test positive for tobacco (buccal swab) we are gone. Residency, but same difference.
 
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Probably.
I would hope so.
 
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You're not allowed to use tobacco whatsoever?

I can understand not dipping while at work... but at home? Hmm.

a lot of work places are enforcing a no tobacco tolerance policy. They test you before hire for nicotine and you're denied a job solely on that. Especially in hospitals.
 
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What about in Colorado? I assume as long as you aren't intoxicated on the job, it's fine. A quick google search didn't show any restrictions for healthcare workers.

Hmm...brb, reapplying to Colorado schools.
 
What about in Colorado? I assume as long as you aren't intoxicated on the job, it's fine. A quick google search didn't show any restrictions for healthcare workers.

Hmm...brb, reapplying to Colorado schools.

Just because it is de-criminalized in the state doesn't mean a medical school will not have it's own restrictions.
 
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If we test positive for tobacco (buccal swab) we are gone. Residency, but same difference.

Woah why? Why? Tobacco doesn't cognitively impair you usually.
 
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Woah why? Why? Tobacco doesn't cognitively impair you usually.

Alot of hospital campuses are going smoke free.
You come back into the hospital after having a ciggarette at the McDonalds down the block (or in your car or basically off campus somewhere) you are still bringing that unpleasantness back into the hospital and around patients.
 
I think tobacco use is a huge red flag, demonstrating lack of intelligence or self-control. But at the same time the idea of being tested for use of a legal substance in my free time that hadn't interfered with my ability to complete my job? That seems unprofessional.

Over-generalization anyone can become a smoker regardless of intelligence and self control tho you have a good point about not interfering with people. Nicotine can actually be therapeutic for a small subset of people (some subsets of those with anxiety and/or ADHD). I wouldn't call smokers stupid just for smoking. I hope you don't bring those sort of assumptions to the medical field because you're doing all sorts of patients an incredible disservice by generalizing them.
 
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Over-generalization anyone can become a smoker regardless of intelligence and self control tho you have a good point about not interfering with people. Nicotine can actually be therapeutic for a small subset of people (some subsets of those with anxiety and/or ADHD). I wouldn't call smokers stupid just for smoking. I hope you don't bring those sort of assumptions to the medical field because you're doing all sorts of patients an incredible disservice by generalizing them.
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Over-generalization anyone can become a smoker regardless of intelligence and self control tho you have a good point about not interfering with people. Nicotine can actually be therapeutic for a small subset of people (some subsets of those with anxiety and/or ADHD). I wouldn't call smokers stupid just for smoking. I hope you don't bring those sort of assumptions to the medical field because you're doing all sorts of patients an incredible disservice by generalizing them.

If you're a physician and you smoke, it's kind of undermines everything you stand for professionally. I think that's pretty darn stupid.
 
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Unless you're a pulmonologist, then you're just encouraging future business.

If you're a physician and you smoke, it's kind of undermines everything you stand for professionally. I think that's pretty darn stupid.
 
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If we test positive for tobacco (buccal swab) we are gone. Residency, but same difference.
Yeah, some hospitals are doing that in Texas. All employees must be tobacco-free. From the janitors all the way up to attendings.
 
Does that include e-cigs and vaping? Do they test for nicotine?
 
If we test positive for tobacco (buccal swab) we are gone. Residency, but same difference.
I find this odd. I know that it sets a bad example, but if you kept it out of sight of the patients who cares? Should overweight doctors be forced to go on diets to keep their jobs? I always found it funny when doctors I shadowed would tell a patient that he/she had to watch their weight while their gut spilled out over their pants.
 
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I find this odd. I know that it sets a bad example, but if you kept it out of sight of the patients who cares? Should overweight doctors be forced to go on diets to keep their jobs? I always found it funny when doctors I shadowed would tell a patient that he/she had to watch their weight while their gut spilled out over their pants.

I actually have held this belief for a while. Trim the fat, so to speak. We have no reason to bring ourselves down like this, yet we tolerate all sorts of nonsense. I've even seen doctors that commute on motorcycles, if you can believe that. I know I didn't when I first heard it was happening.
 
It's not just the tar in the lungs and random carcinogens you have to avoid...the nicotine itself has been shown to be the main cause of the heart damage. E-cigs/vaping are problematic in setting a good example for patients.
 
It's not just the tar in the lungs and random carcinogens you have to avoid...the nicotine itself has been shown to be the main cause of the heart damage. E-cigs/vaping are problematic in setting a good example for patients.

I vape, and it's a much better alternative to smoking or dipping.

But anyway - using this logic, you can argue that physicians shouldn't eat pizza/burgers/whatever fattening thing you can think of, drink beer, or have soda.
 
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If we test positive for tobacco (buccal swab) we are gone. Residency, but same difference.

I was reading a book from the hot lights cold steel series (I forget which one), they reattached a hand. One of the problems was the guy was a smoker, they said it interfered with the angiogenesis or something along those lines. Low and behold the patient refused to quit, procedure didn't work out.

Just curious, think the tobacco restriction is more regulated in vascular surgery/surgical specialties??
 
As an alternative to smoking and dipping, yes, it is better. As an alternative to not consuming nicotine, it's worse.
I would argue that the physician should not be eating pizzas/fattening things or drinking alcohol/soda in front of patients. They should probably also exercise moderation when consuming these privately. However, there is a less definitive link between occasional consumption of these items and disease. Doctors should set a good example. Ultimately, I think the hospital cares more able perception and health of the patients than anything else. Also, I don't know much about vaping, but for smoking of many varieties, you can pass the active molecule to those you later come in contact with because it gets on your clothes. You are less likely to expose your patient to coronary heart disease from the smell of the cheese burger you ate for lunch.
 
I was reading a book from the hot lights cold steel series (I forget which one), they reattached a hand. One of the problems was the guy was a smoker, they said it interfered with the angiogenesis or something along those lines. Low and behold the patient refused to quit, procedure didn't work out.

Just curious, think the tobacco restriction is more regulated in vascular surgery/surgical specialties??

In most areas, it's a hospital-wide restriction, not just in a single department. The whole campus of the hospital usually goes tobacco-free, from patients to employees. I don't think legally you could require it of one area and not another, given the usual reasons given for going tobacco-free (and the resultant firing of a few hold outs to sneak out to the parking garage...).
 
In most areas, it's a hospital-wide restriction, not just in a single department. The whole campus of the hospital usually goes tobacco-free, from patients to employees. I don't think legally you could require it of one area and not another, given the usual reasons given for going tobacco-free (and the resultant firing of a few hold outs to sneak out to the parking garage...).

I get the tobacco-free, pretty common place. I don't think they buccal swab for it though, just no actual smoking in or around the area.

Just never heard of stringent tobacco restrictions before.
 
It depends on the place. All the hospitals in my hometown recently went tobacco-free and they seem to do random checks, if I understand it correctly. They gave employees like two years to quit, plus free smoking cessation medicine and counseling. They won't hire people if they smoke and if you get caught with nicotine/smoking, you get three months to quit for good until you're tested again and fired if you are still smoking. The argument is that it's a hazard to patients to have the second hand smoke on them, though non-clinical people are also bound by this. It will be interesting to see how they handle vaping, though.
 
I actually have held this belief for a while. Trim the fat, so to speak. We have no reason to bring ourselves down like this, yet we tolerate all sorts of nonsense. I've even seen doctors that commute on motorcycles, if you can believe that. I know I didn't when I first heard it was happening.

Physicians are people to0 - that being said, attendings and residents do not need to be held to some ultra-standard. However, when it comes to things like smoking, alcohol abuse and illicit substances, it's a problem. As far as being an overweight physician goes, I suppose some would take anything they have to say with a grain of salt from say, a fat cardiologist, but being overweight could be a biological issue if not the result of a normal healthy habit (eating) gone out of control - whereas smoking is an intrinsically unhealthy habit.
 
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Lol.

I can't believe you went as far to compare cigarette smoking to alcohol abuse and illicit drug use. Wow.
 
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Lol.

I can't believe you went as far to compare cigarette smoking to alcohol abuse and illicit drug use. Wow.

Cool, don't go to medical school if these are safe behaviors.
 
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Cigarette smoke clings to skin, clothing, hair and the stench can be very unpleasant. Patients shouldn't have to suffer that unpleasantness in addition to all the other unpleasantness they are going through.

I haven't found the odor of fatty foods to be as clinging.
 
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completely agree with above...

and yeah... not everyone practices what they preach hehe... which obviously lowers the credibility factor...
 
I vape, and it's a much better alternative to smoking or dipping.

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It seems that way, and I hold some hope for e cigs as a life saving alternative, but we still aren't really certain about how safe they are. They are also highly unregulated.
 
Cool, don't go to medical school if these are safe behaviors.

Interesting. I'm unsure how pointing out how ridiculous it is to compare illicit drug use and alcohol abuse to cigarette smoking makes me believe any of these behaviors are "safe". Nice logical jump. o_O

Cigarette smoke clings to skin, clothing, hair and the stench can be very unpleasant. Patients shouldn't have to suffer that unpleasantness in addition to all the other unpleasantness they are going through.

I haven't found the odor of fatty foods to be as clinging.

I agree with you completely. Smoking while you're at work is one thing... but controlling what you do legally at home is another one entirely. It is possible to smoke at home and not bring that unpleasantness with you to work (smells, etc.). Of course, I'm just talking about smoking. The blanket nicotine screening that some institutions perform outlaws dipping at home, as well as vaping.

It seems that way, and I hold some hope for e cigs as a life saving alternative, but we still aren't really certain about how safe they are. They are also highly unregulated.

It's very likely that the e-cigarette industry, as it stands now, will go down in flames (it'll get the crap regulated out of it soon enough). It's quite saddening. Big tobacco has big clout, and they're pushing for this - don't expect any unbiased studies (either for or against vaping) to come out any time soon. It's likely that the regulation will drive expenses so high that almost all the current vaping businesses will fail and big tobacco will reap the rewards (either through a resurgence of tobacco sales or taking over the e-cigarette industry itself).
 
My opinion on marijuana use by a physician/potential physician is... Oh wait, I must have clicked on the wrong thread :laugh:.

But seriously, the tobacco thing is more interesting, being legal and what not. I wasn't even aware that some hospitals have banned tobacco use.
 
Interesting. I'm unsure how pointing out how ridiculous it is to compare illicit drug use and alcohol abuse to cigarette smoking makes me believe any of these behaviors are "safe". Nice logical jump. o_O

Pal, I could say the same for you as well. I was pointing out that all of these behaviors are unsafe.
 
I agree with you completely. Smoking while you're at work is one thing... but controlling what you do legally at home is another one entirely. It is possible to smoke at home and not bring that unpleasantness with you to work (smells, etc.). Of course, I'm just talking about smoking. The blanket nicotine screening that some institutions perform outlaws dipping at home, as well as vaping.

Employers can make almost any rule they wish, within the confines of the law, as long as they can find enough employees who accept the rules.
 
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If you're a physician and you smoke, it's kind of undermines everything you stand for professionally. I think that's pretty darn stupid.

what about overweight physicians or physicians who eat at mcdonalds or eat junk food? same deal w/ that stuff if you want to make blanket statements. lol if we're going down that route let's leave no stone unturned.
 
what about overweight physicians or physicians who eat at mcdonalds or eat junk food? same deal w/ that stuff if you want to make blanket statements. lol if we're going down that route let's leave no stone unturned.
Let's not go down that route.
 
Cigarette smoke clings to skin, clothing, hair and the stench can be very unpleasant. Patients shouldn't have to suffer that unpleasantness in addition to all the other unpleasantness they are going through.

I haven't found the odor of fatty foods to be as clinging.

This. I have a really strong reaction to the smell of cigarettes. It damn near instantly gives me a headache if I get a whiff.

As a patient it's extremely frustrating to have nurses and CNAs who are smokers. They are all up in your personal bubble and you are forced to smell that crap. I wish all hospitals banned smoking.
 
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You guys should look up William Stewart Halsted.
 
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Only one way to find out. Try it!
 
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This. I have a really strong reaction to the smell of cigarettes. It damn near instantly gives me a headache if I get a whiff.

As a patient it's extremely frustrating to have nurses and CNAs who are smokers. They are all up in your personal bubble and you are forced to smell that crap. I wish all hospitals banned smoking.

I have an oncologist-colleague with whom I often eat lunch. He makes a point of not eating garlic on days he has afternoon clinic. It is a personal choice, not a employer's rule, but I think that being considerate of others with whom you are in close proximity is most thoughtful.

Now to get on track, what would we do with a medical student who comes onto the wards stinking of weed?
 
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