Would you go to medical school if you had to choose again?

[DoctorWannaBe]

I'm a pre-med student exploring the possibility of going to medical school. I have a question for all of you who have finished medical school and have more insight into the field of medicine. My question is, if you could turn back time, would you go into medicine again? I'd appreciate any comments as to why you would or would not go into medicine again, and what might you do differently if you could. Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[bigdan]

Great question. I'm in the same boat as you are - kinda.
I am in another health care field (occupational therapy), and I've decided I want to be on the other side of the fence in terms of service provision.
One thing I did that may help you out is discuss this topic with ANYONE in the MD process...students, residents, and MD's (oops - DO's too!). Of course, that's what your posting here is doing...
As an anecdote, I've found (rough estimates only) that most of the newer docs told me they'd DEFINITELY do it again...and the exact opposite with the older docs. My guess is those that have seen medicine without the true hell that is our current healthcare reimbursement system in the USA are those that don't like the field, and their answers to me show it...but that's my (un)educated guess as to why.
Personally, I have a great job now, and I deal with the insurance mess daily...so I think (hope?) I know what I'm getting into with my pursuit of medicine...so I'm going full speed ahead.
Best of luck to you in whatever you pursue - can't wait to see how this poll turns out...

 

[Teufelhunden]

I'm only an MS-II, and I can tell you that I would NOT do it again.

My answer would might have been different if my situation was different, however. I'm a non-trad...married...turning 32 this year. This poverty thing is getting extremely old. It's not only being poor...I'm very in debt from my financially-irresponsible 20's. I would have a lot mre peace of mind if I was 'out there' earning an income...paying off my debt.

Another thing...I'm married...and have been dragging my wife through this process. She's had to move away from her family in FL to follow me to Ohio.

Also...being a med student....I feel like I'm treated like a 3rd-grader. Seven years ago I was a Sergeant in the Marine Corps....responsilble for people's lives....I was a leader. Anyway....I'm a long way from that now, and it kinda burns me a little.

Another thing...and this may simply be my limited MS-II perspective speaking, but so far medicine seems like a big game of memorization...medical jeoprady....I actually miss undergrad where I was asked to THINK. Granted, medical school is much harder for me....this rote memorization thing is not my strong suit...so, in retrospect, I wish I would have done something that involved a little more analytical thinking/problem solving. I know those will be required in my future...but not now, hence why I'm not enjoying the academic process.

I guess it comes down to the fact that I've deferred so much....financial stability, children, enjoying what I do....all those things have been deferred so far into the future....I defninitely wish I could go back in time.

What would I have done? I had my application in at Georgia Tech...was going to get a M.S. in Bioinformatics. It was a 1.5 year program (read: I'd be done already), there's a boatload of opportunities out there for new grads in that field....and more importantly, I think I would have really enjoyed both the curriculum as well as the work itself.

Well, I've rambled sufficiently enough...back to memorizing the embryology of the pituitary...knowledge that I'm sure will serve me well in my future practice of medicine.

Sorry so bitter...it's been a bad year (2002).

 

[shaft]

They let your think, eventually. The second year of medical school was the worst for that. You should like third year A WHOLE LOT BETTER. Sure you learn some cookbook stuff and in surgery they like you to know anatomy, but when you start to put together the history and physical and labs you have to start thinking to figure out what is going on with patients. In our pre-clinical clinical correlation lectures about half the time some professor would say "there is no substitute for a good history and physical" "A good H&P is the most important thing" and we thought it was a joke but it actually after the basic scientists and their pathologist brethren get their last crack at you in second year your education becomes more fun and more useful. For the most part they are hazing you so that you can assimilate large amounts of information in the future - and I assure you if it is really important they will teach it to you more than once (note: the Krebs cycle does not get repeated) and once you have the basic facts you need to have on board you will need to think. Probably your most important skill to develop as a third year med student is to develop broad (but not ridiculous) differential diagnoses for things. Example: Splenomegaly (clinical answer likely : Mono or something like that ... pre-clinical test question answer : Felty's syndrome)

 

[southerndoc]

Originally posted by shaft
They let your think, eventually. The second year of medical school was the worst for that. You should like third year A WHOLE LOT BETTER.

I agree 100% with this.

I was doubting my decision to go to medical school during my first two years, especially my first year, because I was miserable with all the reading, studying, etc. Third year is so much fun! You actually get to see patients and think instead of regurgitating facts (well, you do some of that too, but you get my drift).

Trust us Teufel, you will enjoy third year. You will actually be responsible for a couple of patients daily. You will be their primary caregiver. The one who should know the most about the patient, the one who should suggest treatment plans, etc.

Just hang in there!

 

[Sandpaper]

Sorry to be a pessimist, but if you dislike 2nd year now, you will definitely be miserable 3rd year, and subsequently, in the internship year. All of the things you're complaining about now, i.e. lack of time for family, poverty, being treated like crap, will be magnified more so later on in your training. So steel yourself man and prepare for the worse and hope for the best. Good luck friend.

 

[HiFi]

Originally posted by Sandpaper
Sorry to be a pessimist, but if you dislike 2nd year now, you will definitely be miserable 3rd year, and subsequently, in the internship year. All of the things you're complaining about now, i.e. lack of time for family, poverty, being treated like crap, will be magnified more so later on in your training. So steel yourself man and prepare for the worse and hope for the best. Good luck friend.

Dittos to that!
Residency sucks 10000 times worse than second year, in terms of being away from your family!

Your wife will get very good at sleeping alone, every 3rd or 4th night.

Hey Teulhefunden(Sp) Do Derm or path
9-5 , big bucks, no night call ( or very rare! )

 

[Brougham]

I absolutely HATED medical school the first year. But, that was largely due to moving from sunny southern California to the great white north (Wisconsin). Looking back on now (I am an MS 4) I am very happy I stuck with it. I am very happy with the choices I have made.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

You're an MS2 and already hate it? Get out now while you only owe $80,000. I've liked every year of medical school and I'd stay in even if doctors only made $50,000. If the current state of reimbursement makes you wish you were in another field, you picked the wrong field initially. Try business or law. (Don't get me wrong, I intend to gratefully accept my $200,000 a year, and work to increase reimbursements.) I guess my point is this, suck it up and learn to like it, or get out and do something you will like.

 

[Foxxy Cleopatra]

Sometimes I think entering medical school when young (I'll graduate at 25) is not the best thing, just because most people haven't had tons of medical (or life experience, for that matter) as to identifying what really makes them happy. It is also easy to enter medicine with idealizations and be disappointed when it is much different than what you thought.

I wasn't in love with 1st or 2nd year; at my school, there is very little patient contact or clinical experience during these years, and although things like path & micro (to me) are more interesting, most of those 2 years was mostly memorization, not a lot of conceptualization, and being stuck in a few auditoriums with a bunch of cutthroats who battled with one another over 1 point on a test. I thought it was annoying and wasn't what I thought medicine would be like at all.

3rd year was a complete change for me. No doubt, the hours can be pretty extensive (sometimes in the range of 120/week,) to me it was so much more fun. It brought all the things I thought I would be interesting to life. Though I spent many more hours working as a 3rd year, time flew by and I enjoyed it. There is some b.s.; always a difficult resident/student/attending that will cross your path; plus long hours, but if you really do like patient care/clincal work, more often than not you will have a great time.

So looking back, I would have tried to get more experience in medicine before entering school. Plus, gotta wonder if $100,000 (this is probably on the low side) of debt and a lot of b.s. is the easiest route to having a career that gives you everything you want. Big bucks and being out on your own in practice will be a long time from the day you enter medical school; most 1st year medical school grads make less than $40,000 during their intern year. Hours in things like surgery, OB, and maybe even medicine/peds/FP can be long, though if you don't want to work as many hours, there are fields out there where you can do that.

If you really think you will love it and have something to motivate you through the tough times, go for it.

 

[DocWagner]

I went from being a Physical Therapist making 45 k a year, working easy hours, unchallenged and craving more, to being a med student in debt...I hated it...but it got better. I survived, chose a residency and location that IS NOT AT ALL malignant...and I am extremely happy about my choice!!

I really can't see myself doing anything else! Sure, I would love to own a restaurant someday (or whatever), but damn...I am a doctor! The things I have seen so far and the things I have done are EXTREMELY cool ( I couldn't imagine being a pencil pusher, bean counter or sitting next to some idiot politician wanna-be lawyer at a law school)...and hell, I am only 30, and look at what I can STILL do!

Yeah, sometimes the nurses suck, the attendings can be jerks...but it won't always be like that...and I know damn well, every Doc ahead of me dealt with the same issues.

 

[southerndoc]

I am amazed that 25% would not do medical school if they were given a second chance. Wow!

 

[DrMom]

I'm not too suprised because I've heard it from Drs before. When I've talked with them in more depth, most of them have acknowledged that they are glad that they went to med school, but if someone told them they had to go through it all over again they wouldn't. Maybe some of that thinking is contributing to the poll results.

 

[eukinesia]

Teufelhunden,

There are two reasons your essentially f---ed.

1. You think.

2. You hope.

If you didn't think, then you wouldn't think, "man, med school is really stupid. I'm going to forget everything they're making me memorize within a year and it will have no impact on how I practice medicine." And you also wouldn't think, "What is the point of this suffering?" You also know of other professions, like the marines, where one can have a rewarding career. So you wouldn't think, "other professions, while having learning periods, do not require this degree of nonsense to become proficient." During 3rd year, you won't think, "boy, my arm hurts from 8 hours of retracting, wouldn't a pulley work better?"

If you didn't hope, you wouldn't be bothered by the fact its going to take you at least six years from the start of med school until you can start having a normal life - assuming you choose an easy specialty. This will delay normal life goals: starting a family, seeing said family, buying a house (unless you live in a fly-over state or ghetto), making money (because you will be paying back loans. While all your friends benefit from compounded interest in their IRAs, you will quickly discover the devestation this can bring when it works against you).

Solution, other than giving up medicine (even after getting an MD, you can still do it!): give up thought and give up hope. Very buddist, I know, but to their credit:

If you give up thought, you will be able to plow through the books, rock out on step 1, kiss enough ass (thought entails self-introspection and without that pesky little bug, you won't have to think bad thoughts about yourself while you bring in coffee for AM rounds, or lie and say "Oh, it's between ortho and family practice" while on family practice), and be SO HAPPY when you match at a top spot in __________, where the suffering will continue. But by then you'll be so thoughtless, it won't matter that debt accumulates, family is put off, and you're bringing home 5 dollars an hour. But by then there'll be no alternative - you can't think of one.

But while giving up thought will give you some success and blunt the suffering, giving up hope will bring it home (to your studio apartment in the slum). Without hope, if you have a lot of debt, then having to choose a specialty based on this won't bother you too much. During residency, you will no longer hope to get off for Thanksgiving, X-mas, New Years, any weekend. You will no longer hope for a 80 hour week. Without hope to spend time away from the hospital, you will reap all the rewards of practicing medicine in the 2000's: spending hours defending yourself from lawsuits in advace by writing 4 page notes, the (thoughtless) intellectal satisfaction of the reflex CT scan revealing something bad, or correcting the potassium from 3.2, doing the 600th lap chole. You'll have the emotional satisfaction of having 5 discharges in a day, plus one death and one crach to ICU, halving your census - of course - so you have more chances to admit and write more 4 page notes.

Without thought and hope, you can go on to practice happily, dealing with all the insurance, scumball patients and their lawyers, costs of doing business, phone calls. After all, you'll be a DOCTOR, and people must respect you! You wear a long coat and the MD after your name. You can boss nurses around, after residency. Without thought, you won't see that this arrogance is silly.

Good luck to you in ridding yourself of these two medical character faults.

 

[felson]

Nicely put!
So is your vote yes, you would do it all over again?
ity:

 

[endo]

You will still be treated like a 3rd grader in the 3rd/4th years of med school -- not by everyone, but by enough people to make you nauseated. Part of this I think stems from the fact that most residents / med students have never been outside of medicine (ie. never had a different career). It was a real regression for me, where previously I was treated (amazingly enough) as an adult when working as a software developer. But o/w, I think medicine was a great move for me -- eventually you'll be an attending. I think it's worth putting up with being in the 3rd grade again. 3rd grade was fun.

-endo

 

[docB]

It would be interesting to see this poll broken down by where people are in their careers. I imagine that it would show that as docs get older fewer and fewer would do it again. If I were in my twenties again maybe, but if I just suddenly was told I had to do it over now, no way. It's also tough because I?m just starting my career and still have a ton of debt while my college classmates are five or ten years in and doing well.

 

[dkwyler94]

I can't say I read all the replys, so perhaps I am repeating some of what has been said. I am an MSII now, and can honestly say there has not been a moment during medical school that if I had to make the decision again, I wouldn't choose to do anything else.
This doesn't mean I enjoy every minute of it. It is really quite miserable at times, but I have spent 5 years working in hospitals before medical school and was convinced this is what I wanted to do. I spend many of my breaks back in the hospital getting some hands on experience and using some of what I have learned, and being surprised at how much I have learned and remember when it comes to working with patients. This all helps me keep my focus.
I've talked to some older bitter doctors, but I think many of them are practicing in a different circumstance than when they began. In the area I am thinking I will go into, sugery, a surgeon makes considerably less than they did 10 years ago. These older doctors that took the hit are obviously going to be upset. The younger doctors that went in making less made the decission based on what was going on with HMOs, reimbursement, etc, and never knew anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if I only make $200,000 or so a year and a GS, but I think I will be able to squeak by on this meager amount.
Of course I am in a different boat than some. I am going straight through. Many people who became used to being out of school and having money at my school find it a more difficult adjustment. Myself, I have never had so much money to live on. I live on about $12,000 a year, after having lived on about 8-10 through undergrad. I am also single, and my only responsibilities are to myself and my education.
That said, is it right for the person who started this post? Who can say. When I am back in the hospitals on breaks and pre-meds come up to me to ask for advice, I tell them straight out how it is. I tell them what they will be giving up, how old they will be when they are done, and how miserable it is at times. I tell them they better make sure it is a passion, and not just the prestige or money that is driving them. I don't think one should do it if it is just another job.
This is my opinion on the subject. Wait until I am in my second year of a surgery residency, maybe my idealism will have been worn out by than, but for now I am still loving this stuff.

 

[docB]

can honestly say there has not been a moment during medical school that if I had to make the decision again, I wouldn't choose to do anything else.

Too many negatives. I'm guessing by the rest of your post that you would do it again, correct?

 

[handygirl]

I really wish residents and practicing physicians would be more realistic about the sacrifices you have to make to become a doctor and practice medicine in this day. Yes, we all want to think that we have the dedication and the moral reserve necessary to do this job, but the job requirements are not what they were 30 years ago: financially, this career is crushing--do you really know what it means to make $40, 000/year AND have $1200/month in student loan payments? Not an hour goes by that I don't worry about money. And I honestly feel that as a practicing surgeon, I'm going to have to continue to work 80 hours per week in order to pay them off. Your family life WILL suffer--it is really difficult to reign in your practice to accommodate family life, and for women who want to spend time with their small children, part-time positions are hard to come by. Also, I've been very underwhelmed by the compassion of physicians for one another. If you are willing to live with these, and many other stressors involved with the job, by all means, go ahead. We need to stop encouraging every bright young person from applying to medical school by painting such a rosy picture of the profession--it's really not fair to them, and it's hard to turn back once you've made the commitment.

 

[DermRes]

I really did not enjoy medical school. I did not like the clinical rotations. For a long time I really regret going to medical school. Near the end of my medical school year, I found a specialty I really enjoy. Now I loved every day of it.

I think there is a niche for each one of us. The hard part is to find that niche. Potentially we can all enjoy medicine because it is such a broad field.

 

[docB]

A friend of mine from med school had been a securities trader on Wall Street before he had a TIA and decided to go to med school. He described working in finance and being in a system where your worth is entirely determined by your capacity to make money. Those who make the most money lord over those who make less who lord over those who make still less. The egos in the banking world are legendary. He maintains to this day without hesitation that the egos in medicine are much bigger and more malignant than anything he ever encountered on Wall Street. One reason lots of people have second thoughts.

 

[felson]

bump

 

[docB]

The results on this poll so far fit with the stats someone quoted earlier. About 30% of young docs would not do it over. This board is heavily weighted toward people not even out of med school yet. It makes you wonder, if it weren't for the debt how many would stick around.

 

[KCOM2005]

Well said handygirl!

 

[smackdaddy]

would i do it again? depends.
for all the bitching, it gets better once you finish training, and there are not that many jobs which provide the same security and income. when i was in med school, it was the go go 90s. all my friends were multimillionaires and i couldn't afford to buy fruit at the grocey store. they had assistants and assistants to the assstants while the ward clerk was telling me to take out the trash. they vacationed across europe while i slaved away. they bought mansions while i slummed. they planned to retire before i finished training. things have changed.
if i could find a job that paid the same without all the training and whatnot, no i wouldn't do it again. if i could go to law school for 3 years, and then work the same hours with no residency then i would do that.
if neither of those two were an option, i would do it again.
i would do it again regardless of the loan situation. when i was in your guys' shoes, that was all i thought about. now, **** how old am i 8years out or something, i have a tremendously rewarding job. while i was a resident and fellow and subsubspecialty fellow i was treated like chit on a daily basis. now my wife and i have huge loan payments which are dwarfed by an even huger salary. don't be distracted by the loans. don't be distracted by details.

 

[patrickhenson]

So...

Everyone goes into medicine:
1) for the $$.
2) for the wonderful support from colleagues, and the delightful people you will meet.
3) for the prestige.
4) for wednesdays off.
5) for family time.

Anyone who doesn't know the effect that medicine will have on their lifestyle during medical school, during residency and during practice is not fully prepared.

I notice no one has really mentioned helping people. Being on the cutting edge, learning more than 99.99% of the population about almost everything. Becoming the kind of person people are comfortable putting their trust in, and the care of their loved ones.

This is sappy, yes, but true. To go into medicine, you have to want to do these things. If you are pissed off about the system, then dont subscribe to it; change it from the inside, if you can. Maybe the people who wouldn't do it over made a mistake in their choice of program. Choose one that fits you; turn down the top-flight school for one that better fits your personality (I did), or one that trains REAL doctors, not technicians.

Whatever you decide, I hope that you make the best of the situation. This requires to much effort and too much work to EVER doubt that you did the right thing. Even though we all will at some point, that is usually just stress talking. For those of you out there having troubles, I wish you the best, and I hope that you find your peace within medicine, should you choose to stay. (I am sure that most all of you will, considering the time and financial effort already invested).

Patrick
OSU-COm

 

[desaiha1]

I guess not wanting to be what they currently are is a feeling which most of the professionals have, the only thing with docs is we know this because we are discussing this. We have not asked a lot of other professionals as to what their views are on their fields. I can bet that it would be the same.

 

[patrickhenson]

But we are supposed to be different (!). We go into medicine to make a difference. If we didn't care about the outcome, we wouldn't be here, hopefully, because this is a ridiculously masochistic way to earn a living. I could have incurred no debt and made more than enough money to be truly happy on and raise a family and enjoy life, but I chose medicine, rather than be some financial analyst or computer tech.

Or rather, I feel that medicine chose me...does anyone else feel this way? Or are there a lot of us wrapped up in the white coat and the capital letters after our names. It just seems as though a large (LARGE) % of our physicians-to-be are disappointed in medicine. Do we not prepare students enough for the realities of medical school and beyond?

A new question: what would you change about your training/experiences up to this point? The one most important factor that has made you regret your decision, if you do. Also, what is the most important factor that has made you glad you chose to embark upon this noble course?

If you have time, that is...

Patrick
OSU-COM

 

[fourthyear]

I'm happy to see that finally the positive people are responding to this post.

I DO think people should think through their decision completely because it is a lot of work and debt to put up if it's not really what you want to do.

In my personal opinion, I can't imagine a better job. As a previous post said - you get to learn tons of interesting stuff, you get to talk to people all day if you want, and you get to feel like you are making a difference in the lives of others.

I think the people who are disappointed went into medicine for the wrong reasons.

You have to find the job that is best for you. If you love medicine and are willing to sometimes shift other responsibilities/priorites in life to reach your professional goals, you will be happy in medicine. If you are doing any job for the wrong reasons, you will not be happy.

 

[docB]

Everyone goes into medicine:
1) for the $$.
2) for the wonderful support from colleagues, and the delightful people you will meet.
3) for the prestige.
4) for wednesdays off.
5) for family time.

Anyone citing these as reasons to go INTO medicine is kidding themselves.

 

[handygirl]

"I think the people who are disappointed went into medicine for the wrong reasons."

That is incredibly presumptuous. Why do you think 99% of people go into medicine? For the money? That fantasy went out the door ages ago! I still love my patients and think I'm pretty darn good at what I do, but am a terrible wife and mother--and can do absolutely nothing about it other than think of alternative careers. I'm so tired of this "love it or leave it" mentality. Why can't the medical profession be more humane to its members?

 

[patrickhenson]

Originally posted by docB
Everyone goes into medicine:
1) for the $$.
2) for the wonderful support from colleagues, and the delightful people you will meet.
3) for the prestige.
4) for wednesdays off.
5) for family time.

Anyone citing these as reasons to go INTO medicine is kidding themselves.

Correct you are doc!!

This was my feeble attempt at sarcasm.

Patrick
OSU-COM

 

[dcw135]

Loved your posts, totally agree. Don't you just love it when a student who probably does not know what suffering is, either in terms of call, scut, or finances says, "If you love medicine and are willing to sometimes shift other responsibilities/priorites in life to reach your professional goals, you will be happy in medicine." Or, even better, "Anyone who doesn't know the effect that medicine will have on their lifestyle during medical school, during residency and during practice is not fully prepared." Dude, that anyone includes every single person I've ever met within the field. Are you prepared to take Q3 intern call (every fall, EKG, blood draw) with 36 hour shifts for a couple of months straight? If your answer is yes, let me tell you, it shouldn't be.

Hey, I'm really happy for you people who think you can live on next to nothing a year while paying rent, taxes, loan repayments as you make less than minimum wage for at least 3 years while dodging HIV infected material. But try it out first OK? I think it's very not cool to send the message to undergrads - hey, you're good at science and like people, go to med school, it's a great calling.

It seems to me that it's easy to get infected with that horrible sanctimonious b---s--- "I'm nobler than thou because I plan on sacrificing my entire life to the god of medicine" if you haven't been a Q3 intern. Anyway, it certainly easier than to actually think about why someone else might not want to suffer as much. Someone who might think that suffering is not fun. But then again, per eukinesia, if no thinking, then less misery. You guys are right on track.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

After residency, you can make decisions that will improve your lifestyle if you want. You can not accept new patients, you can stop taking trauma call, you can work less shifts, you can move to a slower-paced town etc. I would submit if you feel like you're being punished by your job, change jobs, there is a lot of variety within each individual specialty. Med school isn't all fun and games, and neither is residency, and neither is medicine. But as long as you knew there would be a lot of hard work and hard times going into it, it will deliver the job satisfaction you hope for. (Or at least it has so far.)

 

[patrickhenson]

So, all rudeness aside, I would like to wax philosophical for a minute. Is the consensus that nobody can know what they are getting into when they sign up for this? If I haven't taken Q3 call and worked 40 hours straight and performed all the thankless/meaningless tasks that an intern has, then I am not allowed to comment on the fact that over 30% of those surveyed here (most of whom aren't even through med. school!) would not do it over again? I agree with your last statement, undergraduate institutions are selling medicine hard. Pre-med programs are big business. The med. schools try and tell you, during the interview, that it will be difficult. "Are you ready for the time commitment?" I was asked on no less than 7 instances. One would be an idiot to say "No, can we change it?".

How many people did you go to college with who couldn't even make it to a 9 AM class? How many of them wanted to be 'doctors'? How many of them got in? I know in my case it was about 50%. And my school had a pretty rigoroud pre-med process, but plenty of people with no clue what was waiting for them are now in medical school, learning exactly that.

I have worked 50 hours a week while taking 20 undergrad. hours and trying to raise a family. I understand having a full plate, but I STILL NEVER THOUGHT THAT THIS WOULD BE EASY. I also know that most of it wont be fun. But if we are judging our career decision based on an intern year, or a crummy residency, or an awful surgery rotation...

Maybe this shouldn't have been posed to students, or residents. Perhaps the question should be posed to practicing physicians (I know that it often is, and I believe the results are about the same). However, I think this generation of doctors has more advantages and more resources and should be better prepared for what is down the road.

So, screw the nobility, screw the money, screw the time. I would hope that anyone who enters medicine these days realizes what is in store for them, and embraces it.

Patrick
OSU-COM

 

[smackdaddy]

Originally posted by dcw135
Loved your posts, totally agree. Don't you just love it when a student who probably does not know what suffering is, either in terms of call, scut, or finances says, "If you love medicine and are willing to sometimes shift other responsibilities/priorites in life to reach your professional goals, you will be happy in medicine." Or, even better, "Anyone who doesn't know the effect that medicine will have on their lifestyle during medical school, during residency and during practice is not fully prepared." Dude, that anyone includes every single person I've ever met within the field. Are you prepared to take Q3 intern call (every fall, EKG, blood draw) with 36 hour shifts for a couple of months straight? If your answer is yes, let me tell you, it shouldn't be.

Hey, I'm really happy for you people who think you can live on next to nothing a year while paying rent, taxes, loan repayments as you make less than minimum wage for at least 3 years while dodging HIV infected material. But try it out first OK? I think it's very not cool to send the message to undergrads - hey, you're good at science and like people, go to med school, it's a great calling.

It seems to me that it's easy to get infected with that horrible sanctimonious b---s--- "I'm nobler than thou because I plan on sacrificing my entire life to the god of medicine" if you haven't been a Q3 intern. Anyway, it certainly easier than to actually think about why someone else might not want to suffer as much. Someone who might think that suffering is not fun. But then again, per eukinesia, if no thinking, then less misery. You guys are right on track.

i think it would be hard to better summarize the difference between the new mentality and the old mentality in medicine.

 

[smackdaddy]

Originally posted by patrickhenson
So, all rudeness aside, I would like to wax philosophical for a minute. Is the consensus that nobody can know what they are getting into when they sign up for this? If I haven't taken Q3 call and worked 40 hours straight and performed all the thankless/meaningless tasks that an intern has, then I am not allowed to comment on the fact that over 30% of those surveyed here (most of whom aren't even through med. school!) would not do it over again? I agree with your last statement, undergraduate institutions are selling medicine hard. Pre-med programs are big business. The med. schools try and tell you, during the interview, that it will be difficult. "Are you ready for the time commitment?" I was asked on no less than 7 instances. One would be an idiot to say "No, can we change it?".


Patrick
OSU-COM

i think that it is impossible for 21 year olds who have never worked a real job for any length of time to understand exactly what residency entails. they likely will also go through many significant life events during that period which will potentially increase the demands on their time. you think that because you partied 4 days in a row with your frat buddies that you can work for 36 hours straight. but then you find your body at 28 isn't the same body at 21, when you go home from call your screaming baby actually lets you get less sleep than while you are on call at the hospital, and you can't afford a burger at mcdonalds.

but you find ways to get through it. and it is better on the other side.

 

[hotbovie]

Yes, absolutely, I would do it again in a heartbeat! My main regret is that I wasn't able to do it earlier (my entrance into med school was delayed into my late 30's for a variety of reasons)

Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But perhaps I've been around the block enough to fully realize that nothing is. There is no career without heavy duty internal politics, as well as its share of very nasty people. But I know that there is NOTHING I'd rather be doing. I'm sure that part of that stems from the fact that I have had none of the horrible experiences in any surgery rotation that I see described in other areas of the message board. In fact, nearly all of my contact with residents and attendings in any area has been very positive. I am very much looking foward, in a few short months, to being able to introduce myself to pts as the surgeon, and not have to explain that I'm a student (and that the doctor will see them soon).

I see signs that the medical profession is gradually realizing that it has to become more humane. Residency for my class will be a very different experince that it was for those who went before us, thanks to the 80 hour limit. I have some ambivilance about it, as I am concerned with how it will affect my case load. But I also realize that having quality free time is very important. At every program I have interviewed, both the chair and program director have said they are committed to making sure the limits work well for the program. And while yes, they have to be, I have also heard of some programs that are basically ignoring the fact that the regulations have been imposed and are not trying out new schedules this year (most of these programs I have heard of are NOT surgery programs)

For those regretting the decision to go into medicine, realize first that the experinece in private practice is VERY different than that in an academic medical center, where you do all your training. Secondly, realize that there is no shame in saying "This isn't for me" and quitting. I wish I had the courage to do that in my previous field. I knew it wasn't for me all along, but yet I hung in there, finishing a master's degree, incurring debt, and then working in the field for several years and disliking it the whole time. Life is too short. Do what makes you happy.

 

[DuneHog]

Interesting thread...

Just to continue with a little life philosophy. I've always felt that there is a certain group within the population that for whatever reason is unlikely to ever be happy with what they are doing, no matter what it is. I would argue that this group is overrepresented among physicians and medicals students, as this group in general is already extremely driven and self-critical. Throughout medical school I would run into folks that wanted to do nothing else but complain. It didn't matter what they were doing, they always tried to find the negative. I believe that this way of thinking is also partly developed by spending most of a lifetime learning to think critically and to find the problem/pathology in every situation. Although this probably doesn't make up all of the 30% in this poll, I would imagine that a portion of that 30% would be unhappy regardless of their career choice.

 

[dcw135]

Henerson: So, all rudeness aside... Is the consensus that nobody can know what they are getting into when they sign up for this? If I haven't taken Q3 call and worked 40 hours straight and performed all the thankless/meaningless tasks that an intern has...

You're right, it's an ad hominum sort of argument - you can't vote based on lack of authority. But paradoxically, it's apt.

...then I am not allowed to comment on the fact that over 30% of those surveyed here (most of whom aren't even through med. school!) would not do it over again?

Sure, comment on other's choices, that's cool. I'm commenting on what I see as extreme naivete.

And smack:

"i think it would be hard to better summarize the difference between the new mentality and the old mentality in medicine."

I appreciate, to make the pun, your words as a fine compliment, given my mentality of course.

 

[patrickhenson]

So why do people sign up for this gig? Is the number of the 'naive' really that high, so to make such a large portion of the populace wish they had done it all over?

Patrick
OSU-COM

 

[smackdaddy]

because despite everything
it is still a great friggin job.

 

[save10]

I'd certainly do it all over again. Must be said that the first year sucked. Second year sucked too, but i stopped going to classes and i slept alot so it wasnt that bad. But now that I'm in wards, its awesome. Long hours, crappy pay as a resident? just part of the job. Negatives aside, i got the greatest job outside of professional athlete/fighterpilot/adultmovieactor/SultainofBrunei. I knew damn well what i was getting into, but i also knew what i'd be getting out of being a doctor. Everyone once in awhile I'd get to save lives, and everyday I'd get a chance to change lives. Plus i got a job where Dilbert doesnt apply to me. I agree with Dunehog that some people will be unhappy in what ever they do. But i also think that many who wouldnt do it over got into medicine for the wrong reasons...money (hah! jokes on you)!, prestige, family pressure, ability to pick up chicks with "i'm a doctor" line. But if you get into this field for the right reasons and love what you do, you'll never look back. except maybe the adult movie actor thing....hmm...

 

[foreignmd]

Great post, save10!

 

[DoctorWannaBe]

I really appreciate all the responses to this thread, and it has given me more insight into the medical field. I have another question though: What is Q3 call?

 

[hotbovie]

THe Q is an abbreviation for some latin word, and means every. Q3 call means call is every 3rd night. Q4 would be call every 4th night.

 

[Voxel]

I'd say about 60-90% of premed students have no clue what they are getting themselves into. In fact, some never learn until internship hits. And then it's your responsibility cause you are the doctor. Read "House of God" before you start med school to see how residency can "change you."

Having said that, medicine is a great gig. Due to the tremendous variety of available niches. Just remember there are a lot of people who would love to trade positions with you in a heartbeat.

What do you expect when you put a bunch of smart people type A bent people in the same room and under various guises of authority under unhumane work and underpaid salary conditions?

Life in private practice gets much better, especially if you can admit patients to a teaching hospital and have housestaff to lighten the burden. And so the cycle continues.

 

[maxbaner]

Great Stuff!

 

[billydoc]

Great Stuff!

Yeah, you bet! And it's over 5 y.o. thread....aged to perfection