Would you recommend your kid to become a pharmacist?

[Happymeal40]

I just got my undergrad degree and am currently applying to pharmacy schools. However, I have read a lot about decreasing job opportunities with market saturation/large about of graduates and the uncertainty of the future of pharmacy/the possibility of robot replacement that has cast some doubts on my ambitions.

So to all current pharmacists and pharmacy upperclassmen, with these issues in mind: Would you recommend your kid (that is in my position) to become a pharmacist? (I have created a yes/no poll, but an explain would be appreciated.)

The only solace I have found in my readings is that these problems seems to be more prevalent in retail, whereas my goal is to work in a clinical setting or do pharmaceutical research. It seems that with these other two fields, the opportunities might be fewer, but with hard work (ie. residencies) they are very attainable (although, that could be said about anything....).

I thank you for your input on these matters in advance.

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[Old Timer]

NO​

 

[Momus]

Fu3k no. Underemployment/No jobs. There are better careers out there making the same, if not more income potential. Employers treat you like sh1t due to saturation.

 

[Rukn]

This sh1t ain't worth it

 

[gwarm01]

Don't be misled into thinking everything is peachy outside of retail. Almost every pharmacy student thinks they will be working a clinical job. Even those who do residency often settle for staffing jobs (and the smart ones realize that, despite the title, these jobs are still very clinical depending on the individual). Prospects are poor right now and will likely be even worse when you graduate. Currently you can still do well if you are willing to fight for yourself and move to where the opportunity is.

I am a 2013 graduate with no residency and I have managed to work in two PGY2 specialty areas since graduation (pediatric critical care and informatics for those wondering). I got an internship at a peds hospital my first year and worked all through school which gave me a head start. This worked for me, but will it work for you? If you are thinking about school now I can assume you would be applying to start in the fall of 2017. Will the job market in 2021 be as accommodating? That is a big risk to take and no one knows the real answer.

 

[PAtoPharm]

NO.​

Old Timer, I thought you liked pharmacy?

 

[Digsbe]

I'm a new grad. Finding a job is extremely difficult and finding a full time 40 hour per week job is even harder. The market is increasingly tightening, work conditions are deteriorating, staff hours are being cut and it seems the newest trend is to cut benefits instead of an outright salary decrease. "Clinical" pharmacy is severely restricted unless you work at a federal institution like the VA or IHS. Insurance companies don't pay for pharmacist clinical services, in many states it may not be legal to render clinical services, and in a legislative sense you're competing with PA's and the powerful NP lobby for payment in what they define as "their turf." Pharmacy is riddled with turf wars, oversupply, lower standards for entrance into a PharmD program (in my opinion) and hype about a future that may never come. If you can land a full time job it's a great field. I like being in the community, talking to patients, helping them, immunizing, etc. It can be a fulfilling career and I'd recommend someone do it if that's their passion. If you're in it for the money and "lifestyle" I wouldn't recommend it. Pharmacists do still make good money, but hours are being cut and the student loan burden for most graduates is very high. In all honesty if I had to do it all over again I would have considered PA/NP school more. One thing that does appeal to me regarding pharmacy is the science component nearly all other healthcare providers lack and the opportunities for research/industry. During school l I wanted to do clinical and was hooked on the dream of being a "pharmacist practitioner" but it's not quite reality. As far as a clinical component goes I really liked having direct contact with patients in the community setting so my immediate goal is to work retail (probably shocking to hear). I find it astounding that having a doctorate, having superior knowledge of medication and therapeutics, and being required to have thousands of hours of practice experience it is still illegal in most places to substitute a capsule for a tablet nonetheless practice actual pharmaceutical care in the sense of changing and optimizing medication regimens. It's frustrating knowing what to do, how to do it, and being an expert in an area while not having the ability to actually provide services in accordance with what you know unless you're in a select few institutions.

 

[OmiPharmD]

Absolutely not.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Absolutely not.

Why not?

 

[farmadiazepine]

No

 

[OmiPharmD]

Why not?

Tuition is out of control, there are far too many grads each year, and the schools are smoking crack if they think "provider status" is going to save us all.

Retail, where most new pharmacists will land, is getting downright hostile with metrics and staffing cuts. Consolidation of the large chains will also hurt future job prospects.

I work in a hybrid position at a large university affiliated teaching hospital and even we are shrinking staff. Currently we do not replace pharmacists when we have turnover. I'm not sure what number administration is looking for in terms of decreased staff. Although I'm sure we will be expected to provide the same services with whatever magic number they choose.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Tuition is out of control, there are far too many grads each year, and the schools are smoking crack if they think "provider status" is going to save us all.

Retail, where most new pharmacists will land, is getting downright hostile with metrics and staffing cuts. Consolidation of the large chains will also hurt future job prospects.

I work in a hybrid position at a large university affiliated teaching hospital and even we are shrinking staff. Currently we do not replace pharmacists when we have turnover. I'm not sure what number administration is looking for in terms of decreased staff. Although I'm sure we will be expected to provide the same services with whatever magic number they choose.

Sounds like a rough situation..... even if the provider status bill ends up getting passed, do you think it will improve things at all?

 

[BMBiology]

Would I do it again? Probably

Would I want my kid to do it? Probably not.


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[Gombrich12]

No one wants to imagine their child working in a career that barely has any dignity or respect, and that's what pharmacy is these days.

 

[zelman]

Pharmacy is a mess and getting worse. I would only allow my child to do it if they had a full scholarship.

Pharmaceutical research is a decent field. But not as a PharmD. Look at the credentials that are held by the people in the jobs you want.

 

[gwarm01]

Did you just staff in the picu or the picu specialist??

I never had the specialist title but I rotated through. I filled in during the morning specialist shift and took over the evening specialist shift with my colleagues. I was very much in a position where I constantly filled in (also got trained in filled in for peds oncology) but couldn't get that specialist promotion without a board certification. It's a big reason why I left.. along with the fact that I was aiming for informatics since I graduated.

 

[ldiot]

If you want to do clinical stuff in a hospital go to med school. If you want to do research get a PhD.

 

[ICPharmD]

Nope, wouldn't want to subject my kid to the same **** I went through.

 

[Chalupa_Batman86]

If you hated your kid, you should definitely tell your kid to become a pharmacist. If he/she can even find a job (even in CVS)!

 

[Niosh]

I voted maybe. It depends on the market in 20 years. If it were today, it'd depend on the school, but it'd be hard to given a solid yes answer.

 

[Carol is Alpha]

I voted maybe. It depends on the market in 20 years. If it were today, it'd depend on the school, but it'd be hard to given a solid yes answer.

There is so much pharmacist capacity that the market won't clear until much of it dies off. Seriously. I wouldn't hold my breath. For those currently with a license, even the newly minted ones in their 20's which are to the pharmacist population what the baby boom was to the US population, labor conditions won't improve until the classes 1995-2015 take the dirt nap. There is so much latent supply in addition to the 15k new grads each year. We laid off pharmacists are like a lipophilic drug saturating the adipose tissue of the pharmacy labor market, ready to be released anytime labor conditions loosen.

It was commonly thought in the early 2000's when we saw this bulge in the pipeline that hey, most of these kids are girls who will only work for 5 years, get pregnant and end up stay at home moms never to return to the slave pits. But this was before student debt became really over the top. So now even though 60-75% of pharmacy grads are girls, guess what? Working 5 years and downshifting is no longer feasible. Everybody has gotta a nut to crack, gotta service that odious debt.

 

[MindGeek]

If he/she can even find a job (even in CVS)!

Yeah, I know. So much for CVS being the employer of last resort.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Why not?

Dude stop trolling

 

[Happymeal40]

Everyone, thank you again for your input. The resounding majority of "No's" (80% as of now) will definitely give me something to think about.

As for other options, I have considered many. I tried pre-med for most of my undergrad, and found it too stressful. I've done a good amount of research and it has been alright, but getting a Ph.D seems unattractive because I want to leave my options more open rather than going either to industry or become an academic (the latter of which I prefer not to do). I have shadowed dentist and optometrists, but found their work unappealing. I have also seriously consider PA, but decided against it. As for nursing, being a male, I have never entertained that option very much, though maybe I should.

Please feel free to keep responding. Perhaps someone could advocate the "Yes" side, even if you are just playing the part of a devil's advocate.

 

[Lnsean]

If you love pharmacy then YES...okay do it...

Don't do it because of money, job prospects, or any other bs because I can tell you from having worked for the past 5 years....these things are going away fast.

The future is really primary care: PAs and NPs. You can't have a robot diagnose or make clinical decisions yet...probably years and years away. We have robots and cabinets that dispense medications accurately now...even in retail. The only thing that keeps a pharmacist there is some state law that says we have to be there.

Walgreens has tried and is still trying to outsource verification to central locations. There was POWER in florida...now it's called PHLEX---which I am almost positive the verification is done remotely somewhere else in the country other than the state where the verified scripts are dispensed....Don't even know how legal this is...but if they're already trying to centralize this...then watch out... If this becomes the norm...then forget about it.

 

[awval999]

If you love pharmacy then YES...okay do it...

Don't do it because of money, job prospects, or any other bs because I can tell you from having worked for the past 5 years....these things are going away fast.

The future is really primary care: PAs and NPs. You can't have a robot diagnose or make clinical decisions yet...probably years and years away. We have robots and cabinets that dispense medications accurately now...even in retail. The only thing that keeps a pharmacist there is some state law that says we have to be there.

Walgreens has tried and is still trying to outsource verification to central locations. There was POWER in florida...now it's called PHLEX---which I am almost positive the verification is done remotely somewhere else in the country other than the state where the verified scripts are dispensed....Don't even know how legal this is...but if they're already trying to centralize this...then watch out... If this becomes the norm...then forget about it.

The only thing that keeps a pharmacist employed is the verification of prescription/medication orders.

There will always be a pharmacist at the corner drug store. And there will always be pharmacists at the local hospital.

But you are right, eventually, the job opportunities will be little/none. It will just be "one" pharmacist at the drug store. And "a small handful" at the hospital.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Yeah, I know. So much for CVS being the employer of last resort.

Did you ever find a FT job?

 

[PAtoPharm]

If you love pharmacy then YES...okay do it...

Don't do it because of money, job prospects, or any other bs because I can tell you from having worked for the past 5 years....these things are going away fast.

The future is really primary care: PAs and NPs. You can't have a robot diagnose or make clinical decisions yet...probably years and years away. We have robots and cabinets that dispense medications accurately now...even in retail. The only thing that keeps a pharmacist there is some state law that says we have to be there.

Walgreens has tried and is still trying to outsource verification to central locations. There was POWER in florida...now it's called PHLEX---which I am almost positive the verification is done remotely somewhere else in the country other than the state where the verified scripts are dispensed....Don't even know how legal this is...but if they're already trying to centralize this...then watch out... If this becomes the norm...then forget about it.

How far off is some sort of central verification system like this? Isn't it going to result in mass layoffs of retail pharmacists (since Walgreens would only need to hire a few pharmacists to work at the centralized center)?

 

[Lnsean]

How far off is some sort of central verification system like this? Isn't it going to result in mass layoffs of retail pharmacists (since Walgreens would only need to hire a few pharmacists to work at the centralized center)?

Yes, it's being tested in my region. The corporate bigwigs are not giving up on this idea. The stores that have this new PHLEX program have lost their mid-shift (11-7) pharmacists. Now, there are only 2 rphs (1 from 8-4 and 1 from 2-10) at those store versus 3 previously for a weekday. The technician scans in the script....it is typed..then routed to a central location for verification. Walgreens has used this program to pull overlaps and mid-shift pharmacists from stores that required it previously.

Of course, when you pull a whole person and try to replace him/her with some remote verification...that store becomes severely understaffed and you can see people running around like chickens with their heads off.

 

[rph3664]

Would I do it again? Probably

Would I want my kid to do it? Probably not.


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Would I do it again? Yes.

Would I want my nieces to do it? Well, one of them is not interested in pursuing a medical career and honestly doesn't have the intellect for pharmacy school, but the other one is and does, and if for some reason she changes her mind about becoming a physician, I for one will steer her away from pharmacy.

 

[rph3664]

Walgreens has tried and is still trying to outsource verification to central locations. There was POWER in florida...now it's called PHLEX---which I am almost positive the verification is done remotely somewhere else in the country other than the state where the verified scripts are dispensed....Don't even know how legal this is...but if they're already trying to centralize this...then watch out... If this becomes the norm...then forget about it.

I first heard chatter about this 20-odd years ago. It's taken this long for the technology to progress, and possibly the state laws as well.

 

[accordman83]

NO.​

^This!!

 

[boriqua]

if i did, they must have given me some awful fathers day presents

 

[radio frequency]

Probably not. I'm pushing dentistry as a good option.

 

[Rukn]

If you love pharmacy then YES...okay do it...

Don't do it because of money, job prospects, or any other bs because I can tell you from having worked for the past 5 years....these things are going away fast.

The future is really primary care: PAs and NPs. You can't have a robot diagnose or make clinical decisions yet...probably years and years away. We have robots and cabinets that dispense medications accurately now...even in retail. The only thing that keeps a pharmacist there is some state law that says we have to be there.

Walgreens has tried and is still trying to outsource verification to central locations. There was POWER in florida...now it's called PHLEX---which I am almost positive the verification is done remotely somewhere else in the country other than the state where the verified scripts are dispensed....Don't even know how legal this is...but if they're already trying to centralize this...then watch out... If this becomes the norm...then forget about it.

Yeah PhLex has been around for a while now

But the PhLex pharmacists make mistakes and send stuff they don't want to verify back ... they also leave DURs for you ..

They are really trying to save every penny because of reimbursement

 

[Dalteparin]

Everyone, thank you again for your input. The resounding majority of "No's" (80% as of now) will definitely give me something to think about.

As for other options, I have considered many. I tried pre-med for most of my undergrad, and found it too stressful. I've done a good amount of research and it has been alright, but getting a Ph.D seems unattractive because I want to leave my options more open rather than going either to industry or become an academic (the latter of which I prefer not to do). I have shadowed dentist and optometrists, but found their work unappealing. I have also seriously consider PA, but decided against it. As for nursing, being a male, I have never entertained that option very much, though maybe I should.

Please feel free to keep responding. Perhaps someone could advocate the "Yes" side, even if you are just playing the part of a devil's advocate.

Shadow some RNs/NPs and see how it goes for you. I've known a lot of awesome male nurses, especially in the emergency and critical care areas. If I had actual people skills, I might have gone into nursing since they always need strong arms to do compressions or help lift large patients.

Honestly, I was tempted to vote maybe on this poll. If I had a teenager now, I'd be telling them to stay away from pharmacy. On the other hand, if my kids were still young it'll be a good decade or more before they'd need anything resembling career advice, and who knows what the market will look like then?

 

[boriqua]

i'm inclined to think the 4 people who voted yes are either trolls or an employee of a pharmacy school

 

[confettiflyer]

There's a decent chance your future child's career doesn't exist in its current form today.

It's like predicting in 1990 your child should go into mobile applications programming or something.


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