You should take the USMLE if....

[qqw]

....would love to hear your opinion on when it would be appropriate for a DO student to take the USMLE.

I'm not sure what I want to do yet, and I don't want to limit myself in the future by not taking it now.
However, I also don't want to take it if I will do poorly.

I'm a "B" student. My average is 87%. No idea where I stand in my class though.

Should I take it?

Anyone know of "B" students that took USMLE and their outcomes?

Thanks.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Apoplexy__]

This thread should be re-titled "You shouldn't take the USMLE if..." and then discuss the few reasons why not to take it. Really the only reason I can think of not to take it would be if you're barely passing, and it sounds like you'd be completely ok.

With the uncertainty of the merger, and your uncertain career goals, I would advise taking it. Even if you want to do the least competitive specialty out there, wouldn't you want to have more options in that specialty (e.g. a more competitive program, or more available in the area you're looking at)?

 

[TheFuture_22]

Agreed. But only if you make the commitment, no half efforts, study from now forward as if you are going to take it. 87% is pretty good at most schools (at mine that is probably top 25% or so).

 

[GUH]

....would love to hear your opinion on when it would be appropriate for a DO student to take the USMLE.

I'm not sure what I want to do yet, and I don't want to limit myself in the future by not taking it now.
However, I also don't want to take it if I will do poorly.

I'm a "B" student. My average is 87%. No idea where I stand in my class though.

Should I take it?

Anyone know of "B" students that took USMLE and their outcomes?

Thanks.

My grades are lower than yours and an advisor at my school who is very familiar with USMLE outcomes encouraged me to take it unless I do particularly poorly on the practice exams leading up to it.

 

[CrocodilePancake]

you are a medical student in the United States

 

[001100010010011]

Take it. The material is the same. Study for the USMLE and add in some COMLEX topics and you're set for both exams.

 

[notbobtrustme]

if you go to medical school, you should take the USMLE.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

The USMLE is a good test. At least a much better test than COMLEX. People seem afraid of it, when really, I find it the far fairer, less capricious test. I was far more scared of my COMLEX exams than of my USMLE ones. And amongst my friends the consensus is most people do similarly well or similarly poorly on both exams. I'd take it in nearly all situations. The only situation I would not take it in is if you are very likely to fail it. Which you yourself can measure a few weeks before the exam with a couple of NBME's or UWorld's assessments, which I've found incredibly accurate for me.

 

[CiproFloxaFlame]

...if you're applying to any ACGME program. Period.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

...if you're applying to any ACGME program. Period.

FM seems VERY COMLEX-only friendly. That's the only field where USMLE scores don't really seem to be very necessary.

 

[qqw]

Thanks for your responses everyone. Great feedback.
Ya, I was/am one of those that is a bit scared to take it. From the way some people I've known have talked about it, it just seems like only the super-smart-get-100%-on-every-test type of students will do well on it. But I've also heard they are very similar before too. There's so much variability it seems.


Some upperclassmen from my school have mentioned not taking step 1, but only taking USMLE step 2. Is this a "way around" step 1? Would an allopathic program that doesn't accept COMLEX only consider USMLE step 2 but no step 1?


Also, another worry of mine (from what I've read on this site) DO students are at a disadvantage regardless of USMLE scores... Is this true? Hope not...would be horrible to take the USMLE step 1, do well, and still be less than an MD at certain programs. I'm not trying to get into anything super prestigious, I just want to be able to do whatever specialty I decide on in whatever region I choose.

 

[nardini46]

FM seems VERY COMLEX-only friendly. That's the only field where USMLE scores don't really seem to be very necessary.

Take it anyway to increase your residency options geographically.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

My grades are lower than yours and an advisor at my school who is very familiar with USMLE outcomes encouraged me to take it unless I do particularly poorly on the practice exams leading up to it.

I don't want to speak for your advisor, but student doctor usually has better advice than "advisors". My advisor is a Ph.D who never took the USMLE, and I'm supposed to listen to his advice....nah.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

Thanks for your responses everyone. Great feedback.
Ya, I was/am one of those that is a bit scared to take it. From the way some people I've known have talked about it, it just seems like only the super-smart-get-100%-on-every-test type of students will do well on it. But I've also heard they are very similar before too. There's so much variability it seems.


Some upperclassmen from my school have mentioned not taking step 1, but only taking USMLE step 2. Is this a "way around" step 1? Would an allopathic program that doesn't accept COMLEX only consider USMLE step 2 but no step 1?


Also, another worry of mine (from what I've read on this site) DO students are at a disadvantage regardless of USMLE scores... Is this true? Hope not...would be horrible to take the USMLE step 1, do well, and still be less than an MD at certain programs. I'm not trying to get into anything super prestigious, I just want to be able to do whatever specialty I decide on in whatever region I choose.

If you only take one USMLE, make it Step 1. But taking Step 2 is better than taking neither.

And yes, DO's are often regarded as less than MD's in competitive, university programs. That's just the way it is. With above average scores for the specialties and a good application, you can get get what you want where you want, in most, but not all, specialties.

Rad-onc, all surgical fields (GS not as much), optho, derm are exceedingly difficult to get as a DO in the MD match. So beware if thats your goal.

 

[SLC]

I had your grades and I took it. I got a good score, well above the average for both the specialties I was looking at at the time. I think it has opened doors for me, and at least one of my top programs on my ROL right now won't look at DO's unless they have USMLE step 1.

I think your grades are fine, you're probably above average in your class. Unless you have a history of poor test performance on big comprehensive exams like MCAT or SAT etc then I'd plan on it. And even then I'd register and study for it and see how the practice exams go.

 

[GUH]

I don't want to speak for your advisor, but student doctor usually has better advice than "advisors". My advisor is a Ph.D who never took the USMLE, and I'm supposed to listen to his advice....nah.

My advisor told me to take it; SDN tells me to take it. So where's the conflict?

 

[NurWollen]

I don't have the greatest grades in the world and I plan on taking it. If I can't get my practice scores up to where they need to be I might cancel and eat the money, but at this point I'm confident I can do well enough for it to be an advantage and not a hinderance.

 

[SurgeDO]

take it. take it just out of principle. it is the gold standard for medical student board examinations. you are a medical student, so you should take it. take it.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

My advisor told me to take it; SDN tells me to take it. So where's the conflict?

There is no conflict in regards to the USMLE in your case, I was speaking in general.

 

[Druggernaut]

take it. take it just out of principle. it is the gold standard for medical student board examinations. you are a medical student, so you should take it. take it.

Amen. Avoiding the USMLE when planning on applying to ACGME programs makes me think that a person doesn't believe they're actually as smart as their MD counterparts, and is looking for a backdoor way in. If you want to compete with them for their GME and forgo the stuff that's been set aside for you, you should compete on the same playing field and make comparisons as easy for program directors as possible.

 

[pattr]

I don't agree with the sentiment of "take the USMLE because it's what all the MDs take." While I understand that sentiment, there's no point in taking a standardized test if you don't think you'll perform well and it won't help you achieve your goals.

Take the USMLE if 1) you are confident can pass it and score well, AND 2) if it makes sense for your career interests.

Why would someone interested in a very particular AOA program/subspecialty need to take the USMLE? It's unnecessary money out of your pocket and prep for a test that would have no bearing on your career.

Obviously you want to maximize your options but if you've done your research, are educated on the different paths, and happy to go AOA-only then why waste those time/resources? For the sheer purpose of "principle"?

I don't know how this will change in regards to the merger but with the current circumstances, this is the advice I would give. And this is coming in hindsight from someone who took all four USMLE exams.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

I don't know how this will change in regards to the merger but with the current circumstances, this is the advice I would give. And this is coming in hindsight from someone who took all four USMLE exams.

Mind telling me why you took CS and Step 3?

 

[RadsonRads]

You should take the USMLE if....

1. You are unsure of what you want to do
2. You want to do a field besides FM
3. You don't want to limit yourself
4. You want to train at the best program possible
5. You want to be a competitive applicant
6. You are breathing

 

[Mehd School]

You should take the USMLE if....


You attend a medical school in the US or caribbean.

 

[Goro]

We always advise our good students that it's OK to take USMLE. You are a good student.

....would love to hear your opinion on when it would be appropriate for a DO student to take the USMLE.

I'm not sure what I want to do yet, and I don't want to limit myself in the future by not taking it now.
However, I also don't want to take it if I will do poorly.

I'm a "B" student. My average is 87%. No idea where I stand in my class though.

Should I take it?

Anyone know of "B" students that took USMLE and their outcomes?

Thanks.

 

[Buckeye1992]

My school is now recommending all students to take usmle

 

[meliora27]

My school is now recommending all students to take usmle

I wouldn't be surprised in a few years if there aren't a few COM's that actually try to require the USMLE.

I have heard from people who applied to competitive surgical subspecialty AOA residency programs that they were actually asked if they took the USMLE and to send those scores.

The USMLE is a far superior test. Whether you go to medical school in Indiana or Ireland and you want to practice in the United States, the USMLE is the required test.

I'm sure I'll catch flack for saying this, but I feel that ALL physicians who want to practice in the US, should have to take the same (i.e.: USMLE) licensing exam. If DO schools want to have an OMM competency exam, that's fine, but the USMLE should be the gold standard.

Frankly, it's embarrassing, that there is a licensing exam that ask questions about something so fringe and lacking in any pathophysiologic or histologic basis (read: Chapman's points).

 

[cliquesh]

I wouldn't be surprised in a few years if there aren't a few COM's that actually try to require the USMLE.

I have heard from people who applied to competitive surgical subspecialty AOA residency programs that they were actually asked if they took the USMLE and to send those scores.

The USMLE is a far superior test. Whether you go to medical school in Indiana or Ireland and you want to practice in the United States, the USMLE is the required test.

I'm sure I'll catch flack for saying this, but I feel that ALL physicians who want to practice in the US, should have to take the same (i.e.: USMLE) licensing exam. If DO schools want to have an OMM competency exam, that's fine, but the USMLE should be the gold standard.

Frankly, it's embarrassing, that there is a licensing exam that ask questions about something so fringe and lacking in any pathophysiologic or histologic basis (read: Chapman's points).

Just to be fair, a lot of stuff on the usmle is bull**** or partially false, too. Medicine is kind of bull**** in general.

Anyway, take the usmle. You will likely regret it if you don't. Scoring a 230+ will open a lot of doors for you.

 

[meliora27]

Just to be fair, a lot of stuff on the usmle is bull**** or partially false, too. Medicine is kind of bull**** in general.

I took USMLE 1 and 2, and nothing can compare to Chapman's Point. There just isn't the same parity there.

 

[cliquesh]

I took USMLE 1 and 2, and nothing can compare to Chapman's Point. There just isn't the same parity there.

That's fair.

 

[as90]

I don't think you should take the USMLE if you are not going to at least get a 210.

However, it is kind of weird that AOA programs are also beginning to look at USMLE scores too. I guess that means even if you plan on doing DO match, USMLE can be used as screening criteria. interesting

 

[j4pac]

if...

-You are at least an mediocre DO student. If you are scrapping by in med school...you will likely scrap by on the COMLEX and are at risk of failing the USMLE. I strongly believe that those who primarily focus on COMLEX do better than those who do USMLE/COMLEX. Chances are that if you are a poor DO student, you will be destined for DO primary care residencies.

and...

-You are applying to a program other than PM&R. If you are 100% sold on PM&R, I would recommend against taking the USMLE. Very, very few PM&R residencies do not see the COMLEX as a USMLE replacement. Save your money and focus on rocking the COMLEX

 

[meliora27]

If you're interested in pursuing a internal medicine subspecialty, your best bet to position yourself for fellowship is to have done your IM residency at a strong (ACGME) university program. For these, USMLE Step 1 is key.

In the spirit of full disclosure there ARE ACGME university IM programs that accept only COMLEX, but these are not the strongest programs out there.

Taking Step 1, and shooting for at least 230 will open doors to some strong IM programs that will look at DO's.

 

[Doctor Bob]

If DO schools want to have an OMM competency exam, that's fine, but the USMLE should be the gold standard.

Something like this is a looooong way off, if ever.

But it's a compromise I'd support. NBOME is reinventing the wheel with the COMLEX and coming up with a product that's somewhat oblong.