"You Won't Believe The Debt Some Students Hold"

[valkairon]

So this video talks about the "insane" amount of debt some people have. Apparently some people have loans as high as $150,000... And they make a HUGE deal about it.

Isn't that like the minimum for dental school?!

I'm worried cause my loan is going to be upwards of $400,000. I don't think I even realize how bad that will be. I've already given up on the though of paying it back in less than fifteen years, but will I still be able to live comfortably with that hanging over me? I don't know how it works. :'/

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[wired202808]

So this video talks about the "insane" amount of debt some people have. Apparently some people have loans as high as $150,000... And they make a HUGE deal about it.

Isn't that like the minimum for dental school?!

I'm worried cause my loan is going to be upwards of $400,000. I don't think I even realize how bad that will be. I've already given up on the though of paying it back in less than fifteen years, but will I still be able to live comfortably with that hanging over me? I don't know how it works. :'/

So stretch it over 30 and you'll be fine.

 

[doctor123456789]

Yeah dude ofcourse! I've met many friends and alot of them came from like a
Family of 2, with an income less than 15,000 a year. And that in southern California where housing/rent $ is crazy. Will you buy a house and new car right when you're done with school? No. Will you have enough to eat and a roof over your head? Yes.
I like you am also paying for it all on my own, you're not alone and thousands have done it before you, and I'm most definitely sure you'll be able to do it too.
Keep your head up buddy!! You'll be good.

 

[timwatley]

It's pretty scary stuff. Everyone thinks it's a for sure thing but it's not, there's definitely a risk. We live in a great little bubble where dentists make a killing. If that bubble ever popped....yikes! A lot of people would be stuck with a lot of debt. It's less risk than most professions...but with the way tuition keeps climbing some students are thinking twice before attending the expensive private schools. I'm going into dentistry with confidence, but my loan will always be in the back of my mind. I'll definitely be paying it off ASAP, not messing around with IBR or the 30 year crap.

 

[SupDanLOL]

I was hoping to win the lottery in order to remedy this problem.

*Checks ticket*

I CAN'T BELIEVE I LOST.

 

[Bereno]

I'm not sure how the people in this video are calculating the "required" income levels... They say that to pay off $150K in 10 years you need to make $207K?? Also, to pay off that same $150K in 40 years you need to make $109k? I don't know about you guys, but even at 8% interest and a 10 year payment plan ($1819.91 per month), I can pay off that $150K in 10 years making "only" $80K EASY!! How in the heck did they get $207K? lol

 

[433439]

So this video talks about the "insane" amount of debt some people have. Apparently some people have loans as high as $150,000... And they make a HUGE deal about it.

Isn't that like the minimum for dental school?!

I'm worried cause my loan is going to be upwards of $400,000. I don't think I even realize how bad that will be. I've already given up on the though of paying it back in less than fifteen years, but will I still be able to live comfortably with that hanging over me? I don't know how it works. :'/

So. . . The top 1% of student loan borrowers owe about ~$150,000??? Looks like we're all gonna be in the top .01%

 

[doctor123456789]

I'm not sure how the people in this video are calculating the "required" income levels... They say that to pay off $150K in 10 years you need to make $207K?? Also, to pay off that same $150K in 40 years you need to make $109k? I don't know about you guys, but even at 8% interest and a 10 year payment plan ($1819.91 per month), I can pay off that $150K in 10 years making "only" $80K EASY!! How in the heck did they get $207K? lol

You forgot to factor in the Versace leather pants they wanted to buy

 

[433439]

I was hoping to win the lottery in order to remedy this problem.

*Checks ticket*

I CAN'T BELIEVE I LOST.

I still have to check mine. . A Half a' Billion Dollar California Lottery... Sweet Jesus.

 

[433439]

I'm not sure how the people in this video are calculating the "required" income levels... They say that to pay off $150K in 10 years you need to make $207K?? Also, to pay off that same $150K in 40 years you need to make $109k? I don't know about you guys, but even at 8% interest and a 10 year payment plan ($1819.91 per month), I can pay off that $150K in 10 years making "only" $80K EASY!! How in the heck did they get $207K? lol

Just finished watching the video too.. Some of the info they gave is whack, the anchors both look like they're 21 years old.

 

[yellowishbluish]

150k for us is very different than 150k for a music student or something

 

[doctor123456789]

150k for us is very different than 150k for a music student or something

What's that supposed to mean

 

[Cello]

As someone with a music degree, I can't even begin to imagine how a music grad could possibly end up with $150k in debt! I read today that the student loan bubble may be the next one to burst... Now, is that a good, or a bad thing? I'm guessing it will turn out to be good for the banks and bad for the rest of us coming and going.

 

[UltimateHombre]

What's that supposed to mean

It means that we have potential to make a lot of money to pay our high loans off. Where as a music major.... well not so much.

No BA/BS is worth more than 30-50K, IMO. If you are going to be 100K+ in debt, it better be for a worthwhile graduate degree. Key word... worthwhile....

 

[Cello]

I know that student loans have skyrocketed in the last decade or so, but I still don't see how anyone would think that becoming a dentist isn't worth it.

Even now, making just $40,000 annually, I will have saved $30,000 or more within just 2 years (nearly 50%)... That amount would be more if I hadn't had to spend close to $5,000 on immigration fees with my wife as well as two international trips.

The way I see it, $100,000 annually, living as if you earn only $50,000, frees up a lot of cash. It's my understanding that a decade into it most dentists can expect to earn significantly more than $100K, so what's the big deal? Yes, $350,000 is a large loan, but a six figure salary is more than enough to compensate for it. Paying down a $400,000 loan with $40,000 annually would take 10 years (without factoring in interest), which leaves most of us 20 or 30 more years to practice without the debt burden of a student loan. By the time you've paid off the loan, you're making more money, so just imagine how well off you'll be in the end.

 

[reklahcs]

You guys need to come to Canada. I'll be shocked if I have more than $100,000 in student loans when I'm done. Also, here in Alberta recent grads have told me to expect $125k a year your first year out. Many people pay back their loans within 2-3 years. I can't imagine having $400,000 in loans.

 

[timwatley]

You guys need to come to Canada. I'll be shocked if I have more than $100,000 in student loans when I'm done. Also, here in Alberta recent grads have told me to expect $125k a year your first year out. Many people pay back their loans within 2-3 years. I can't imagine having $400,000 in loans.

That's a pretty good deal! Great steelhead fishing up there as well. Hopefully we get everything figured out here though.

 

[Cello]

Can Canadian grads work in the US? Not that I'm all that attached to the US or anything, just wondering...

 

[SexyMariGal]

I'm not sure how the people in this video are calculating the "required" income levels... They say that to pay off $150K in 10 years you need to make $207K?? Also, to pay off that same $150K in 40 years you need to make $109k? I don't know about you guys, but even at 8% interest and a 10 year payment plan ($1819.91 per month), I can pay off that $150K in 10 years making "only" $80K EASY!! How in the heck did they get $207K? lol

Except, if you're going to UConn, I'm guessing you're going to end up anywhere between 300-400k in student loans after you graduate not 150k. If you're going to try to pay that back in 10 years, your payments are going to be close to $4-5k a month (I used the calculator here - http://www.amortizationcalculator.info).

Not sure how you think that's going to be easy to pay back. It might me manageable, but easy? I doubt giving up that much in your paychecks towards paying back loans is going to be easy, especially if you are considering starting or buying a practice, among other things.

Of course, you could always stretch your payments out to 30 years, but then you'd be paying close to a million dollars by the time you pay back all the principal and interest. Paying back this astronomical amount of debt is anything but easy, I'd venture to say.

The part about the 207k might be how much you are paying back total when the interest is counted. Plugging the numbers in that calculator gives a total paid of 217k, so maybe that is what they were talking about in the video? Not sure about the other numbers they gave, it doesn't make much sense there.

 

[Dgeorg6]

I dont understand how they calculate where you only pay 10% of your income to live without hardships..

They are saying you have to make 300k a year to only pay 30k in loans a year to live comfortable..

Who honestly needs 270k to live comfortable? If I was making 300k a year I would dedicate AT LEAST 200k of it to my loans and knock them out the way in a year or 2.. I mean who honestly can't live off of 100k for a couple years right out of dental school?

 

[timwatley]

I dont understand how they calculate where you only pay 10% of your income to live without hardships..

They are saying you have to make 300k a year to only pay 30k in loans a year to live comfortable..

Who honestly needs 270k to live comfortable? If I was making 300k a year I would dedicate AT LEAST 200k of it to my loans and knock them out the way in a year or 2.. I mean who honestly can't live off of 100k for a couple years right out of dental school?

300k salary right after D School? Not sure if I misunderstood your post. Pretty high. Most will make 120k after school, 70ish after taxes, then whatever of that you want to go towards loans. I operate fine off 30k a year though which is good since I'll be trying to pay my loan off ASAP!

 

[Bereno]

Except, if you're going to UConn, I'm guessing you're going to end up anywhere between 300-400k in student loans after you graduate not 150k. If you're going to try to pay that back in 10 years, your payments are going to be close to $4-5k a month (I used the calculator here - http://www.amortizationcalculator.info).

Not sure how you think that's going to be easy to pay back. It might me manageable, but easy? I doubt giving up that much in your paychecks towards paying back loans is going to be easy, especially if you are considering starting or buying a practice, among other things.

Of course, you could always stretch your payments out to 30 years, but then you'd be paying close to a million dollars by the time you pay back all the principal and interest. Paying back this astronomical amount of debt is anything but easy, I'd venture to say.

The part about the 207k might be how much you are paying back total when the interest is counted. Plugging the numbers in that calculator gives a total paid of 217k, so maybe that is what they were talking about in the video? Not sure about the other numbers they gave, it doesn't make much sense there.

I am quite familiar with how the loan payment system works. Trust me.

That said, on 80K and year (assuming this will increase by say 5-7K a year) and maybe 25% tax (very doable on an 80K/year income). gives you 60K after tax, or 5k a month. Rounding pmts to 2K a month, that gives me 3K a month after tax to live off of. That would be easy for me lol. To do this for the rest of my life would suck, but for the first few years as an associate would be NP.

This aside, I was trying to illustrate that the video was claiming that you "need" WAY more than you actually do. To pay off 150K in 10 years, you would need about 80K or more a year to do it "easily" IMO.

 

[SexyMariGal]

I am quite familiar with how the loan payment system works. Trust me.

That said, on 80K and year (assuming this will increase by say 5-7K a year) and maybe 25% tax (very doable on an 80K/year income). gives you 60K after tax, or 5k a month. Rounding pmts to 2K a month, that gives me 3K a month after tax to live off of. That would be easy for me lol. To do this for the rest of my life would suck, but for the first few years as an associate would be NP.

This aside, I was trying to illustrate that the video was claiming that you "need" WAY more than you actually do. To pay off 150K in 10 years, you would need about 80K or more a year to do it "easily" IMO.

Yea, the video reviewers are pulling numbers out their asses or simply don't know how to read the data they are reviewing when talking about paying back 150k in 10 years.

But I'm still not seeing how you are getting payments of 2k a month unless you are planning on stretching out your repayment longer. How much debt do you think you will have when you graduate? Are all your loans going to be at 7.9% now that the government has cut out subsidized loans?

Maybe the calculator I'm using is wrong in its calculations somwhere, but even plugging in 200k for student loans in that calculator for a 10 year repayment puts the monthly payments at 2.4k. 3k a month sounds swell, but when you add in other costs, car, house, family, savings, it stretches pretty thin.

Obviously there are other factors to consider, such as if and when you get your own practice, your earning potential may increase significantly to where you can pay back your student loans and practice debt without batting too much of an eyelash. Are you considering this into your projections as well?

I'm not saying it's all doom and gloom getting into dentistry, but the large debt burden is nothing to scoff at. Please share what it is you're thinking, it sounds like you know something we don't that would help put us all more at ease with the calculated risks of getting into dentistry.

 

[little Buddy]

One thing is certain and that pro bono work will decline and the amount of patients with state assistance will grow as they will struggle even more to find access to care or a dentist who will offer them an affordable solution. At the end of the day it will be the patients who will eat the enormous student loan debt... The business will just pass the increase in expensive to the consumer...

 

[Bereno]

Yea, the video reviewers are pulling numbers out their asses or simply don't know how to read the data they are reviewing when talking about paying back 150k in 10 years.
That they are lol


But I'm still not seeing how you are getting payments of 2k a month unless you are planning on stretching out your repayment longer. How much debt do you think you will have when you graduate? Are all your loans going to be at 7.9% now that the government has cut out subsidized loans?
plug in the following into the site you linked to:
Loan Amount: 150000
Annual Interest Rate: 8%
Length (years): 10

Your monthly payment will come out to 1819.91. I am assuming all will be at 8% so that I can estimate conservatively.


Maybe the calculator I'm using is wrong in its calculations somwhere, but even plugging in 200k for student loans in that calculator for a 10 year repayment puts the monthly payments at 2.4k. 3k a month sounds swell, but when you add in other costs, car, house, family, savings, it stretches pretty thin.
Remember that the average family in America makes around 50K a year (pre-tax). Making 36K a year post tax, is not bad! Once again, This would be for your first year, not your overall salary.

Obviously there are other factors to consider, such as if and when you get your own practice, your earning potential may increase significantly to where you can pay back your student loans and practice debt without batting too much of an eyelash. Are you considering this into your projections as well?
Yup. However, I am planning on being about 354K in debt (give or take 10K), making about 120K a year starting (give or take 10K). I am also planning on deferring PMTs for the first 6 months, and will start out with a 30 year pmt plan, and decrease the duration as I begin to make more money. The most important thing here is that I plan to live frugally. I am quite poor how it is now, so this won't be much of a burden on me haha.

I'm not saying it's all doom and gloom getting into dentistry, but the large debt burden is nothing to scoff at. Please share what it is you're thinking, it sounds like you know something we don't that would help put us all more at ease with the calculated risks of getting into dentistry.

I could not agree more that the debt burden for a dental student is nothing to scoff at. However, I think the meaning of my first post is being pulled out of context. IF someone was 150K in debt, you can easily pay it off making less than what those in the video were saying. Nothing more haha

See comments above in blue

 

[baseballplayer9]

Bereno, 350K seems high. Does that include interest during the 4 yrs but assume we will be instate after the first year?

 

[Bereno]

Bereno, 350K seems high. Does that include interest during the 4 yrs but assume we will be instate after the first year?

I looked at UConn's tuition history, and it seem they increased tuition by about 8% a year (I think that was it lol), so I factored that in compounding. I also used 8% interest, and I added the interest accrued over the 4 year period as well. I did this so that I could get a conservative (overshot) amount, so that I can budget on the safe side. You are right that it seems a little high haha. Also, this is assuming OOS for the first year, and IS for the last three.

 

[Cello]

I think a lot of you are underestimating your actual take home salary... If you're making $120,000 annually as I've seen quoted throughout this forum lately, then you can likely expect more than $80,000 in take home pay. If you're married, expect even more! Living on $40,000 take home, while paying $40,000 on your debt, would be equivalent to making $55,000 annually, which isn't really that bad when you have the promise of making six figures easily after your first decade in practice.

 

[Scoping0103]

I can't believe some of you are talking about living off of 2k per month after loans and taxes. In 4 years, your rent and bills will be higher. Also, I don't know if you can say with great authority where exactly you'll be living. You may be living in an area with a higher cost of living.

With 2k you definitely can't afford to have a family. You probably can't even afford a dog after rent, bills, food, car payment, GAS.

I don't know if it's wise to be scraping by miserably when you'll have such new stress in your life. It might be nice to visit family on the other side of the country or go on a vacation on your week off, which you definitely could not afford to do with a 2k monthly budget.

I'm not speaking as someone who has been through this, just relaying the message from other dentists and professionals who faced a similar predicament.

 

[white fang]

I can't believe some of you are talking about living off of 2k per month after loans and taxes. In 4 years, your rent and bills will be higher. Also, I don't know if you can say with great authority where exactly you'll be living. You may be living in an area with a higher cost of living.

With 2k you definitely can't afford to have a family. You probably can't even afford a dog after rent, bills, food, car payment, GAS.

I don't know if it's wise to be scraping by miserably when you'll have such new stress in your life. It might be nice to visit family on the other side of the country or go on a vacation on your week off, which you definitely could not afford to do with a 2k monthly budget.

I'm not speaking as someone who has been through this, just relaying the message from other dentists and professionals who faced a similar predicament.

Who is talking about living on 2k per month? The lowest I see is Bereno talking about living of 3k per month, which is very doable for a single person. Maybe I am overlooking the post talking about 2k per month?

I am also not convinced monthly bills and rent will be higher 4 years for now. As someone that rents out a home as a landlord, I can tell you this is the best market I have ever seen as far as finding quality renters. In my state there is a less than 2% vacancy. Lots of good people lost houses and many more are leery of buying a house til the market gets stability. As the housing market improves, more people will buy houses and the demand for rent will go down meaning prices will likely follow suit.

Other expenses like cell phone plans, internet, cable etc have all seen price reductions as unlimited usage, pay as you go, netflix, etc have come on the scene. I expect this trend to continue as well and we may be able to actually reduce monthly living expenses in my opinion.

I know I personally live off $5500 less per month than I did 2 years ago at this time!

 

[SoulPower]

I think the point people are trying to make is that they'll live below their means to pay off their debt quicker. 2 or 3k a month is just a figure since no one knows how much or what they need to live off of in 4 or 5 years.

But 2500 or 3000k is easily enough to live off of if you're single or married and your wife/husband works. Getting rid of your loan will be most people's single biggest priority financially when they are done with school, I know it's mine.

 

[Cello]

Is my previous post invisible? Even paying HALF of your income towards your student loans, you'll still bring home between $3,000 and $4,000 per month depending on filing status.

Edit: This was directed at the question Scoping asked about $2k per month.

 

[reklahcs]

Can Canadian grads work in the US? Not that I'm all that attached to the US or anything, just wondering...

Ya, as long as you write your US boards and licensing exams. I'm a dual citizenship so I'm considering coming down to the states to work when I'm done.

Only thing is there's only 10 schools in Canada compared to 62 in the states and most of them only take 30 students so there are very few spots. We don't have a single non-Canadian in our class.

 

[Cello]

I see, thanks for the info!