You're graduating, but you're not sure whether you like research -- what do you do?

[philosonista]

Hello, all.

I'm asking for some advice.

Let's say you were pre-MD/PhD. Now let's say you've spent two years on research as an undergrad. But both years have been plagued with things that have made the experience terrible, but not terrible in a way that you think is representative of research in general (Malfunctioning, but crucial equipment made by a slow to respond company, a mentally ill lab partner). You can't tell whether you like research because you don't feel you've had a fair crack at it. Now you're graduating, and you're competitive for MD, but don't just want to abandon the MD/PhD path without knowing whether you like research.

Voila, now you're me.

What can I do in one or two years post-undergrad to figure out whether I like research? A limitation: I have a lot of loans and whatever I do has to have a salary.

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[StIGMA]

1) "liking" research isn't a good reason to do MD/PhD, you can search the forum for the good reasons
2) your research experience sounds fairly normal
3) I'm sure you gained some decent insights about a research career- at least by observing/talking to grad students- during your research experience. If you are still on the fence then maybe this isn't for you
4) you can consider part-time work for pay while volunteering in a lab for research experience. It is unlikely that you would be paid for a full-time research position (other than technician or another such position that you don't really want)

 

[philosonista]

1) "liking" research isn't a good reason to do MD/PhD, you can search the forum for the good reasons
2) your research experience sounds fairly normal
3) I'm sure you gained some decent insights about a research career- at least by observing/talking to grad students- during your research experience. If you are still on the fence then maybe this isn't for you
4) you can consider part-time work for pay while volunteering in a lab for research experience. It is unlikely that you would be paid for a full-time research position (other than technician or another such position that you don't really want)

1) I have good reasons to pursue MD/PhD. I want to both practice and advance medicine. But I'm not going to go into something I dislike doing.
2) That is utterly depressing. That is not the impression I get in talking to other undergrads, reading forums and biographies of scientists, etc. It's not that there were bad parts of my research experience, but that it was nothing but bad. 2 years. Zero progress due to malfunctioning equipment, a PI slow to do anything, a company that will only talk to the purchaser (the PI), not the undergrad and a company that takes months to reply to inquiries. Very stressful partnership with a mentally ill student that ended badly. The rest of my time was spent doing grunt work to meet my ten hours per week. If this is truly the reality of research, you're damn right it's not for me. But I somehow doubt it.
3) No grad students at my school.
4) Thanks for the option.

 

[StIGMA]

Apologies, I assumed that the student your were working with was a graduate student (graduate school has a way of manifesting mental illness). I recommend that you find a medium-large size laboratory (with 3-5+ graduate students and 3-5+ post-docs) that you could work in. You need to do your best to understand what they go through, ideally by talking to the more senior graduate students.

By the way, and I'm sure you know, 10 hours/week not nearly enough time to understand what doing full-time research is like, because you don't have any significant responsibility with those time constraints. Frankly it's not surprising nothing got accomplished working 10 hours/week. Would another student would have found a way around these obstacles? That's what PhD training is about- overcoming obstacle after obstacle. Rinse and repeat x 4-6 years.

To save yourself from 2 or so years of indecisiveness, consider spending ~2 months full-time (40-80 hours/week) in a lab like I described. Much of the utility in this will be working with students who are doing what you are thinking about doing. You can't just like it- because you are signing up for years of work, which some people liken to a prison sentence.

Also, there are many ways to advance medicine other than PhD-driven bench research. You can have a very productive career doing research with an MD. If you are undecided now, you can also consider going to medical school and doing research during your summers/consider taking a year off. If you want to be on the PhD-side of things, you can take time to either do a PhD or do a research fellowship alongside residency training. There are many discussions in this forum regarding the benefits to "back-loading" the research training after the MD (during/after residency).

 

[philosonista]

Also, there are many ways to advance medicine other than PhD-driven bench research. You can have a very productive career doing research with an MD. If you are undecided now, you can also consider going to medical school and doing research during your summers/consider taking a year off. If you want to be on the PhD-side of things, you can take time to either do a PhD or do a research fellowship alongside residency training. There are many discussions in this forum regarding the benefits to "back-loading" the research training after the MD (during/after residency).

"Back-loading" -- is this a term I would search for? I'm interested to read these threads. But I'm not sure what terms to search for.

Thanks for all your help!

 

[StIGMA]

"Back-loading" -- is this a term I would search for? I'm interested to read these threads. But I'm not sure what terms to search for.

Thanks for all your help!

No, that wouldn't be the term.

Here are two examples (with PhD following MD):
http://med.stanford.edu/arts/overview.html
http://star.med.ucla.edu/

Other research option briefly discussed here (research fellowship, eg: research experience without the formal curriculum, following MD):
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/md-phd-vs-md-with-fellowship.1055401/

You can find more info on the forums although it may be kind of buried- basically, you can get research experience at any point, and many people argue it is better to get research training closer to when you would start your research career (which is to say, after medical school).

 

[Neuronix]

But both years have been plagued with things that have made the experience terrible, but not terrible in a way that you think is representative of research in general (Malfunctioning, but crucial equipment made by a slow to respond company, a mentally ill lab partner). You can't tell whether you like research because you don't feel you've had a fair crack at it. Now you're graduating, and you're competitive for MD, but don't just want to abandon the MD/PhD path without knowing whether you like research.

What can I do in one or two years post-undergrad to figure out whether I like research? A limitation: I have a lot of loans and whatever I do has to have a salary.

It sounds to me like you've had a fair crack at it. This all happened to me (repeatedly!) and so much more in my pre-doctoral, doctoral, and post-doctoral research. Medical research is like banging your head into a wall until you like it.

You have two choices in my opinion.

1. Go to medical school.

2. Go find a research assistant job for a year or two and bang your head into the wall some more!

Don't expect it to get better. I'm still waiting for it to get better and I'm at least 10 years older than you.

 

[philosonista]

It sounds to me like you've had a fair crack at it. This all happened to me (repeatedly!) and so much more in my pre-doctoral, doctoral, and post-doctoral research. Medical research is like banging your head into a wall until you like it.

You have two choices in my opinion.

1. Go to medical school.

2. Go find a research assistant job for a year or two and bang your head into the wall some more!

Don't expect it to get better. I'm still waiting for it to get better and I'm at least 10 years older than you.

You're always so slick.

I hope you post more on your blog soon. ^_^

 

[Neuronix]

I have plenty to say, but I don't feel like I'm in a good position to say them. I'm not very anonymous and I have a really hard time being optimistic/positive in the current environment. These are very bad things when you're actively trying to find a job--especially a real physician-scientist job that doesn't seem to actually exist. Salesmanship, especially selling yourself, is a much bigger part of this career than I had anticipated, and seems to count for far more than one's abilities or the quality of one's CV.

I heard through the grapevine that some of my blog posts got a good laugh in my PhD lab, so I did prune the posts down a bit and removed some of the drama. I haven't added anything since then. Someday when I feel secure or bail to private practice I do plan to add more thoughts.

 

[carpediem22]

Talk to your premed advisor to see if there are any local research opportunities. Mine always sends emails out with ads for paid year-long research assistant positions, both at our university and elsewhere. I know many people who have found such positions, so its worth a shot.

 

[Elixir6]

Your undergraduate research experience is very common.

I don't recommend that you go to a lab with 3-5+ grad students plus 3-5+ post-docs. I have come to realize these large labs are generally the worst labs for grad students because the PI is too busy to give you any guidance. Now, you won't be a grad student, but you could easily flounder all the same.

I would put off med school for a year or two to explore. You'll come out the other end a more mature person even if you end up doing straight MD. I would go for a successful lab that is medium sized (8 people altogether) where you will work directly for a senior post-doc who is a) successful, b) will be publishing sooner than later, and c) is nice enough to teach you if you are willing to work hard and smart (not bug them every 2 sec to ask them why your PCR isn't working).

Use your time in the lab to think about your future and prepare on how to be good in med school. Let the PI know you are actually interested in research and not just another med student trying to check the research box off on their CV. Try and get paid more than minimum wage.