Gluteus Medius Re internal rotation. Do you JUST use the anterior fibres?

[Dr Sparks]

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Ok if you are standing up straight legged in a normal standing position and you want to internally rotate your leg, and rotate your pelvis as a result, are you only using the anterior fibres of the gluteus medius to do this? Or is the whole gluteus medius used?

I know other muscles assist this movement but I'm just talking about the gulteus medius for now.

If you answer mine I will answer yours (if I can)

 

[nangus]

Typically it would only be the anterior fibers of the GMed HELPING to IR the femur. If you look at the line of pull of the muscle you can visualize the actions; which is primarily hip ABD

 

[Dr Sparks]

Typically it would only be the anterior fibers of the GMed HELPING to IR the femur. If you look at the line of pull of the muscle you can visualize the actions; which is primarily hip ABD

Awesome thanks mate!

Try this at home try rotating your hip with the posterior fibres of the gluteus medius, so just below the lower back muscles use the upper bum, to stretch your hip around. Can you do it? I bet you can! So why is it the posterior fibres are internally rotating your hip and leg?

I think the text books have it wrong what do you think? (I hope you can directly control your upper bum, some people cant)

 

[goyo1010]

Awesome thanks mate!

Try this at home try rotating your hip with the posterior fibres of the gluteus medius, so just below the lower back muscles use the upper bum, to stretch your hip around. Can you do it? I bet you can! So why is it the posterior fibres are internally rotating your hip and leg?

I think the text books have it wrong what do you think? (I hope you can directly control your upper bum, some people cant)

I'm not sure how you're able to isolate the anterior and posterior fibers of the GMed, unless your motor control is just incredible. The pGMed helps to extend, abduct, and laterally rotate the hip (with the gluteus maximus). The aGMed helps to flex, abduct, and medially rotate the hip (with the gluteus minimus).

The moment arm and line of pull of the the PGM fibers is posterior and medial to the axis of rotation, causing the hip to be extended, abducted, and laterally rotated during GMed recruitment when the angle of the hip is appropriate for its recruitment.

Unless you're at extreme ranges of motion in hip flexion, or you have a malpositioned/malaligned (either functional or congenital) femoral head/acetabulum 2* structural abnormalities and the like, the PGMs should not medially rotate your hip. Nurmerous EMG studies have been done of this, too--on movements that maximally recruit the GMed and/or respective fibers.

 

[AlanWattsBlues]

Awesome thanks mate!

Try this at home try rotating your hip with the posterior fibres of the gluteus medius, so just below the lower back muscles use the upper bum, to stretch your hip around. Can you do it? I bet you can! So why is it the posterior fibres are internally rotating your hip and leg?

I think the text books have it wrong what do you think? (I hope you can directly control your upper bum, some people cant)

Perhaps you're experiencing increased tone in your pGMed with internal rotation because a bunch of other musculature is increasing in tone to compensate? Might be worth palpating around a bunch of different musculature to get a fuller picture of your experiment....

My .02

 

[kptnau]

Since you're standing isn't it recruited for the abd support anyways? try it lying down.
Coming from someone who has just started school. So I am just taking a shot in the dark.

 

[goyo1010]

lol...

 

[WarriorPT]

The textbooks tend to follow research findings in EMG studies when breaking down muscle fiber action. Of course every study is always correct all of the time, right?


Warrior PT
_______________________
Licensed Physical Therapist

 

[goyo1010]

The textbooks tend to follow research findings in EMG studies when breaking down muscle fiber action. Of course every study is always correct all of the time, right?


Warrior PT
_______________________
Licensed Physical Therapist

Not every study, but a bunch of studies that happen to agree and span a decade or two can be pretty convincing. I'm sure there are outliers out there in terms of different individuals' intrinsic anatomical differences.

 

[Dr Sparks]

I'm not sure how you're able to isolate the anterior and posterior fibers of the GMed, unless your motor control is just incredible. The pGMed helps to extend, abduct, and laterally rotate the hip (with the gluteus maximus). The aGMed helps to flex, abduct, and medially rotate the hip (with the gluteus minimus).

The moment arm and line of pull of the the PGM fibers is posterior and medial to the axis of rotation, causing the hip to be extended, abducted, and laterally rotated during GMed recruitment when the angle of the hip is appropriate for its recruitment.

Unless you're at extreme ranges of motion in hip flexion, or you have a malpositioned/malaligned (either functional or congenital) femoral head/acetabulum 2* structural abnormalities and the like, the PGMs should not medially rotate your hip. Nurmerous EMG studies have been done of this, too--on movements that maximally recruit the GMed and/or respective fibers.

This is a brilliant answer! Thanks mate! It is text book!

My motor control is unusual because I have trained my hips in Karate as a kid, the damn instructor even points to where he feels it which the upper rear of the bum, below the lower back and above the glute max, what other muscle can it be?

Its a very common thing in Karate if you are using your hips correctly thats where you will feel it!

The text books say the rear fibers of the glute medius assist external rotation so why do I feel them so strongly when I rotate the pelvis and the leg would internally rotate if I let it (which you aren't supposed to)

Its very different to the feeling the anterior fibers of the gluteus medius because they swing the femur around, and thats a very starkly different and noticeable feeling, and it also internally rotates the femur in a stronger way.

So I can isolate different parts of the muscle which is unusual, but the gluteus medius is an unusual muscle since the anterior fibers have such a unique movement to make.

Heres a drill they teach us in Karate, you can all try it, this is how you gain control of the hips to throw a Karate punch, jump in the air about 2 inches off the ground and try to rotate your body to the left and the right with your upper bum,(NOT YOUR OBLIQUES!) I bet you can! I bet you will be able to feel it where I can!

 

[Dr Sparks]

Not every study, but a bunch of studies that happen to agree and span a decade or two can be pretty convincing. I'm sure there are outliers out there in terms of different individuals' intrinsic anatomical differences.

Do the rear fibers of the gluteus medius have a different attachment point to the anterior fibers? I noticed in some diagrams on google images that it does and on others it does not.

 

[Dr Sparks]

Since you're standing isn't it recruited for the abd support anyways? try it lying down.
Coming from someone who has just started school. So I am just taking a shot in the dark.

I can do it laying down, seated, mid air, etc

 

[Dr Sparks]

Typically it would only be the anterior fibers of the GMed HELPING to IR the femur. If you look at the line of pull of the muscle you can visualize the actions; which is primarily hip ABD

I see, thanks mate! Would you say the posterior fibers of the glute medius can internally rotate the pelvis or spin it? Even though they assist external rotation of the femur in the opposite direction? (Both standing)

So what I mean is the posterior fibers of the gluteus medius on my right buttock spin my hip to the left or inwards, and it can also help externally rotate my right leg the opposite way ie outwards to my right?

Also what you are saying is that any internal rotation of the femur would have to be from the anterior fibers (even if they arnt active) because that's how they they are connected. So that's why I only get weak rotation of the femur when I rotate my hips with the posterior fibers of the glute medius. That makes sense!

Where as if I try to internally rotate my leg/femur, I feel it strongly in the anterior fibers of the gluteus medius. But not much in posterior fibers.

Is rotation of the pelvis part of internal rotation or does internal rotation refer only to the femur and not the pelvis?