For those seeking financial independence

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Andrew_Doan

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Why worry about if ophthalmology will generate enough money for you? Want to get out of the rat race? You can keep ophthalmology your day job, and "mind your business" on your free time.

I highly recommend this book in addition to the Millionaire Next Door.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...002-8786584-0040036?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Rich Dad, Poor Dad: What the Rich Teach Their Kids About Money--That the Poor and Middle Class Do Not!

by Robert T. Kiyosaki, Sharon L. Lechter

0446677450.01._AA400_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg


This book tells you more than how to understand money. It gives you a basic philosophy to how to live your life if you want more than to be stuck in a rat race. As physicians, we are truly never financially independent. Insurance companies, Medicare, and malpractice rates control us. As physicians, we are in a rat race. External forces dictate when we retire, how much we make, and how we make it.

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dr. doan,

that is a good book. I read it years ago, and it just confirmed all that I was raised with concerning the nature of money. I haven't read "the millionaire next door", but it seems to be along the same lines as this one!
 
I liked The Automatic Millionaire by David Bach.

It has good information about automating your finances so that you are forced to save and spend wisely ("paying yourself first.") It's mostly common sense - and geared toward financial novices - but most of us could use a refresher or a kick in the pants. Also has some creative ideas, like paying 1/2 a monthly morgage payment biweekly (so you end up making an extra payment over the course of the year without realizing it and shave years off your morgage). No get-rich-quick schemes or bikini-clad girls promoting West Florida real estate - just hard work, wise investing, and minimizing wasteful spending.
 
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Some people get it. Many people don't.

The point of the book is really to keep an open mind, free yourself from greed, and stop being dependent on a paycheck. Financial freedom is not guaranteed to those who go to school, get good grades, go to college, and then get a job.

Keep your day job, but "mind your business" on your own time.
 
I hated Rich Dad, Poor Dad. It made some OK points but I felt the messge was heavy-handed and not useful beyond generalities. Yes, it's true that I should save money and use that saved money to make more money - what an insight. How do the "poor" people get the money in the first place to make it work for them? It's not as easy as advertised.
 
Andrew_Doan said:
Why worry about if ophthalmology will generate enough money for you? Want to get out of the rat race? You can keep ophthalmology your day job, and "mind your business" on your free time.

I highly recommend this book in addition to the Millionaire Next Door.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...002-8786584-0040036?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Rich Dad, Poor Dad: What the Rich Teach Their Kids About Money--That the Poor and Middle Class Do Not!

by Robert T. Kiyosaki, Sharon L. Lechter

0446677450.01._AA400_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg


This book tells you more than how to understand money. It gives you a basic philosophy to how to live your life if you want more than to be stuck in a rat race. As physicians, we are truly never financially independent. Insurance companies, Medicare, and malpractice rates control us. As physicians, we are in a rat race. External forces dictate when we retire, how much we make, and how we make it.

I would be very surprised if ophthalmology did not make someone enough money. Some make more, some make less. But even the lowest paying ophthalmologist out there still makes a salary much above the national average.

I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad but I did not find it to be helpful because I didn't think it was very applicable to most doctors.

The secret to getting wealthy is to own your own business. It is highly unlikely that you will get rich working for someone else. However, the trick is to own a business that makes money when you are not there. This is hard for most doctors offices.

I have a solo optometry practice and it makes me a very comfortable living. But if I go on vacation, the place makes no money. ( I do not have a dispensary in my office.)

I recommend a trusted financial advisor and accountant. They can be hard to find, but they are out there.

Jenny
 
JennyW said:
The secret to getting wealthy is to own your own business. It is highly unlikely that you will get rich working for someone else. However, the trick is to own a business that makes money when you are not there. This is hard for most doctors offices.

This is more fun than scope expansion debates Jenny.

This book is applicable to doctors. Doctors are in the rat race. The point of the book is to get out of the rat race; however, insight in how to do this is not easy.

For instance, my land lord in Baltimore is a vet who owns 30 rental homes. He was collecting $30,000 in rental cash flow monthly.

How do you make money work for you?

1) stocks
2) bonds
3) IOUs
4) intellectual material, i.e. books, music, art, ect...
5) businesses that don't need your complete attention.

He says, keep your day job and mind your business at night.

At one point in the book, he states that people who work for free and keep their minds open, will see opportunities that others will never see.

The problem with this book is that 95% of the population are not risk takers and will be stuck in the rat race. Only 5% will be bold enough to break free.

Doctors have high income that can easily be converted into other ventures that make money.
 
Andrew_Doan said:
This is more fun than scope expansion debates Jenny.

This book is applicable to doctors. Doctors are in the rat race. The point of the book is to get out of the rat race; however, insight in how to do this is not easy.

For instance, my land lord in Baltimore is a vet who owns 30 rental homes. He was collecting $30,000 in rental cash flow monthly.

How do you make money work for you?

1) stocks
2) bonds
3) IOUs
4) intellectual material, i.e. books, music, art, ect...
5) businesses that don't need your complete attention.

He says, keep your day job and mind your business at night.

At one point in the book, he states that people who work for free and keep their minds open, will see opportunities that others will never see.

The problem with this book is that 95% of the population are not risk takers and will be stuck in the rat race. Only 5% will be bold enough to break free.

Doctors have high income that can easily be converted into other ventures that make money.

I understand what you are saying about the rat race. Rich Dad Poor Dad seemed to say over and over again that you should own your own business. That's generally good advice but in doctors offices, the doctor usually IS the business. Most doctors offices do not make money if the doctor is not there, so the doctors effectively get chained to their practices to keep cash flow going. Most doctors are not able to hire other people to do the work for them like you can in other service oriented businesses like plumber or carpenter. So again, I would maintain the secret to making that philosophy work is to own a business that makes money when you're not there. Usually your practice is not going to be that business.

Since I don't have artistic talent, I prefer the traditional stocks, bonds, mutual funds etc. etc. I know that real estate and rental properties are the big sexy thing right now, but I'm old enough to remember when real estate values were in the toilet. I have a distant relative who does do rentals, and the headaches associated with tenants are huge. Sometimes dealing with "high end" tenants can be worse than dealing with low end ones because they are do demanding. I don't want to deal with that.

Jenny
 
Andrew_Doan said:
This is more fun than scope expansion debates Jenny.

This book is applicable to doctors. Doctors are in the rat race. The point of the book is to get out of the rat race; however, insight in how to do this is not easy.

For instance, my land lord in Baltimore is a vet who owns 30 rental homes. He was collecting $30,000 in rental cash flow monthly.

How do you make money work for you?

1) stocks
2) bonds
3) IOUs
4) intellectual material, i.e. books, music, art, ect...
5) businesses that don't need your complete attention.

He says, keep your day job and mind your business at night.

At one point in the book, he states that people who work for free and keep their minds open, will see opportunities that others will never see.

The problem with this book is that 95% of the population are not risk takers and will be stuck in the rat race. Only 5% will be bold enough to break free.

Doctors have high income that can easily be converted into other ventures that make money.

I understand what you are saying about the rat race. Rich Dad Poor Dad seemed to say over and over again that you should own your own business. That's generally good advice but in doctors offices, the doctor usually IS the business. Most doctors offices do not make money if the doctor is not there, so the doctors effectively get chained to their practices to keep cash flow going. Most doctors are not able to hire other people to do the work for them like you can in other service oriented businesses like plumber or carpenter. So again, I would maintain the secret to making that philosophy work is to own a business that makes money when you're not there. Usually your practice is not going to be that business.

Since I don't have artistic talent, I prefer the traditional stocks, bonds, mutual funds etc. etc. I know that real estate and rental properties are the big sexy thing right now, but I'm old enough to remember when real estate values were in the toilet. I have a distant relative who does do rentals, and the headaches associated with tenants are huge. Sometimes dealing with "high end" tenants can be worse than dealing with low end ones because they are do demanding. I don't want to deal with that.

Jenny
 
JennyW said:
I understand what you are saying about the rat race. Rich Dad Poor Dad seemed to say over and over again that you should own your own business.

Jenny, the type of "business" in Rich Dad Poor Dad is referring to is not a sole proprietorship, which is what a doctor's office is if your in practice by yourself or work for someone else. On the other hand, if you're the head ophthalmologist with a corporation and 5 doctors work for you, then that is different and exactly what Kiyosaki is referring to. However, the sole practicing doctor or shop owner are still in the rat race. I know a cornea fellow who is signing on with a doctor who will charge her 70% overhead and no chance of buying in. This doctor has numerous physicians and optometrists working under him. Do you think he still gets paid when he leaves for meetings? You bet. He's a multi-millionaire with millions of dollars worth in land too.

Businesses Kiyosaki are referring to are formation of corporations. Unless you have a corporation for your ophthalmic practice with doctors as your employees, then you'll be stuck in the rat race.

Thus, if doctors can't form a corporation and get others to work for them, then they need to make a new corporation or invest in corporations that will work for them on the side. This is the key; however, this is difficult. While it's easy in concept, it is difficult in reality to form a successful corporation. 9 out of 10 corporations will fail. Thus, few have the stomache to form corporation after corporation.

On the other hand, investing is another way to make your money work for you 24-7. The point of the book is that there is more than one way to make money. People just need to be creative in their thinking. Break out of the mold that you need good grades, good school, and good job.

Personally, I've been in the rat race all my life.

I've been working all my life to get out of what Kiyosaki calls the "rat race": get married, buy a house, have kids, pay debts, work to pay off debt, pay for college, work to build a retirement, etc...
This book teaches us what schools have failed to teach me. We are taught that to be financially well off, we must: go to school, get good grades, go to college, and then get a "stable job". We all know there is no such thing as a stable job. Look at all the employees at MCI WorldCom. Even in my field, Medicare is cutting my salary 5% per year! I was just on Capital Hill, and the politicians don't have a solution. Medicare is in trouble even with a $155 BILLION dollar budget. That means when the rest of the world gets pay raises, physicians will earn 25% less in 5 years! When starting salaries are already $90K in Florida for new ophthalmologists, are we willing to start with $68K? Instead of seeing 40 patients a day, I have to see 50 or 60 a day. Science PhDs are in trouble too. There are few jobs for them. NIH cuts funding for research. I've seen the best scientists lose their laboratories because their grant did not get renewed. I've seen senior scientists stress every five years during their grant renewal process. Who controls the paycheck for these educated physicians and educators? - The government.

Jenny, physicians are in trouble. Draw a simple liabilities and asset diagram with cash flow in as income and out as expenditures.

When inflation is going up 4% and reimbursements are going down 5% each year, then how do doctors keep up? See more patients. However, seeing more patients will increase your chance of screw ups because less time is spent with patients, malpractice insurance go up, overhead go up, and the once well-off doctor cannot cover his/her bills. Isn't this a horrible rat race?

It's not a pretty scenario. Congress knows there is no easy fix. I've spoken to the legal aid for the chairman of the health care and finance committee. All they're doing are little bandaide fixes.

Even with the Navy, I'm not even sure Congress will continue to provide my retirement after I serve 20 years. We all know that Social Security can't support us.

I truly believe that we all should keep our day jobs, but also keep our minds open for other opportunities to increase our assets and decrease our liabilities. If I am financially independent through other means, i.e., investing, real estate, or corporations, then I will practice ophthalmology the way I want to. I want to avoid the rat race where I am encouraged to do 40-60 cataracts a week because there are 5% decreases in Medicare funding. The joke amongst ophthalmologists is how low will you go for cataract surgery? 10 years ago, many said a $1000 per case. Now, some get less than $600 per case. How low will we go?

This is not just ophthalmology. Medicare cuts affects ALL of us.
 
Dr. Doan,

I look forward to talking to you all about this when we meet next weekend @ ARVO. You're dead on right!

USFOptho



Andrew_Doan said:
Jenny, the type of "business" in Rich Dad Poor Dad is referring to is not a sole proprietorship, which is what a doctor's office is if your in practice by yourself or work for someone else. On the other hand, if you're the head ophthalmologist with a corporation and 5 doctors work for you, then that is different and exactly what Kiyosaki is referring to. However, the sole practicing doctor or shop owner are still in the rat race. I know a cornea fellow who is signing on with a doctor who will charge her 70% overhead and no chance of buying in. This doctor has numerous physicians and optometrists working under him. Do you think he still gets paid when he leaves for meetings? You bet. He's a multi-millionaire with millions of dollars worth in land too.

Businesses Kiyosaki are referring to are formation of corporations. Unless you have a corporation for your ophthalmic practice with doctors as your employees, then you'll be stuck in the rat race.

Thus, if doctors can't form a corporation and get others to work for them, then they need to make a new corporation or invest in corporations that will work for them on the side. This is the key; however, this is difficult. While it's easy in concept, it is difficult in reality to form a successful corporation. 9 out of 10 corporations will fail. Thus, few have the stomache to form corporation after corporation.

On the other hand, investing is another way to make your money work for you 24-7. The point of the book is that there is more than one way to make money. People just need to be creative in their thinking. Break out of the mold that you need good grades, good school, and good job.

Personally, I've been in the rat race all my life.

I've been working all my life to get out of what Kiyosaki calls the "rat race": get married, buy a house, have kids, pay debts, work to pay off debt, pay for college, work to build a retirement, etc...
This book teaches us what schools have failed to teach me. We are taught that to be financially well off, we must: go to school, get good grades, go to college, and then get a "stable job". We all know there is no such thing as a stable job. Look at all the employees at MCI WorldCom. Even in my field, Medicare is cutting my salary 5% per year! I was just on Capital Hill, and the politicians don't have a solution. Medicare is in trouble even with a $155 BILLION dollar budget. That means when the rest of the world gets pay raises, physicians will earn 25% less in 5 years! When starting salaries are already $90K in Florida for new ophthalmologists, are we willing to start with $68K? Instead of seeing 40 patients a day, I have to see 50 or 60 a day. Science PhDs are in trouble too. There are few jobs for them. NIH cuts funding for research. I've seen the best scientists lose their laboratories because their grant did not get renewed. I've seen senior scientists stress every five years during their grant renewal process. Who controls the paycheck for these educated physicians and educators? - The government.

Jenny, physicians are in trouble. Draw a simple liabilities and asset diagram with cash flow in as income and out as expenditures.

When inflation is going up 4% and reimbursements are going down 5% each year, then how do doctors keep up? See more patients. However, seeing more patients will increase your chance of screw ups because less time is spent with patients, malpractice insurance go up, overhead go up, and the once well-off doctor cannot cover his/her bills. Isn't this a horrible rat race?

It's not a pretty scenario. Congress knows there is no easy fix. I've spoken to the legal aid for the chairman of the health care and finance committee. All they're doing are little bandaide fixes.

Even with the Navy, I'm not even sure Congress will continue to provide my retirement after I serve 20 years. We all know that Social Security can't support us.

I truly believe that we all should keep our day jobs, but also keep our minds open for other opportunities to increase our assets and decrease our liabilities. If I am financially independent through other means, i.e., investing, real estate, or corporations, then I will practice ophthalmology the way I want to. I want to avoid the rat race where I am encouraged to do 40-60 cataracts a week because there are 5% decreases in Medicare funding. The joke amongst ophthalmologists is how low will you go for cataract surgery? 10 years ago, many said a $1000 per case. Now, some get less than $600 per case. How low will we go?

This is not just ophthalmology. Medicare cuts affects ALL of us.
 
Andrew_Doan said:
Jenny, the type of "business" in Rich Dad Poor Dad is referring to is not a sole proprietorship, which is what a doctor's office is if your in practice by yourself or work for someone else. On the other hand, if you're the head ophthalmologist with a corporation and 5 doctors work for you, then that is different and exactly what Kiyosaki is referring to. However, the sole practicing doctor or shop owner are still in the rat race. I know a cornea fellow who is signing on with a doctor who will charge her 70% overhead and no chance of buying in. This doctor has numerous physicians and optometrists working under him. Do you think he still gets paid when he leaves for meetings? You bet. He's a multi-millionaire with millions of dollars worth in land too.

Businesses Kiyosaki are referring to are formation of corporations. Unless you have a corporation for your ophthalmic practice with doctors as your employees, then you'll be stuck in the rat race.

Thus, if doctors can't form a corporation and get others to work for them, then they need to make a new corporation or invest in corporations that will work for them on the side. This is the key; however, this is difficult. While it's easy in concept, it is difficult in reality to form a successful corporation. 9 out of 10 corporations will fail. Thus, few have the stomache to form corporation after corporation.

On the other hand, investing is another way to make your money work for you 24-7. The point of the book is that there is more than one way to make money. People just need to be creative in their thinking. Break out of the mold that you need good grades, good school, and good job.

Personally, I've been in the rat race all my life.

I've been working all my life to get out of what Kiyosaki calls the "rat race": get married, buy a house, have kids, pay debts, work to pay off debt, pay for college, work to build a retirement, etc...
This book teaches us what schools have failed to teach me. We are taught that to be financially well off, we must: go to school, get good grades, go to college, and then get a "stable job". We all know there is no such thing as a stable job. Look at all the employees at MCI WorldCom. Even in my field, Medicare is cutting my salary 5% per year! I was just on Capital Hill, and the politicians don't have a solution. Medicare is in trouble even with a $155 BILLION dollar budget. That means when the rest of the world gets pay raises, physicians will earn 25% less in 5 years! When starting salaries are already $90K in Florida for new ophthalmologists, are we willing to start with $68K? Instead of seeing 40 patients a day, I have to see 50 or 60 a day. Science PhDs are in trouble too. There are few jobs for them. NIH cuts funding for research. I've seen the best scientists lose their laboratories because their grant did not get renewed. I've seen senior scientists stress every five years during their grant renewal process. Who controls the paycheck for these educated physicians and educators? - The government.

Jenny, physicians are in trouble. Draw a simple liabilities and asset diagram with cash flow in as income and out as expenditures.

When inflation is going up 4% and reimbursements are going down 5% each year, then how do doctors keep up? See more patients. However, seeing more patients will increase your chance of screw ups because less time is spent with patients, malpractice insurance go up, overhead go up, and the once well-off doctor cannot cover his/her bills. Isn't this a horrible rat race?

It's not a pretty scenario. Congress knows there is no easy fix. I've spoken to the legal aid for the chairman of the health care and finance committee. All they're doing are little bandaide fixes.

Even with the Navy, I'm not even sure Congress will continue to provide my retirement after I serve 20 years. We all know that Social Security can't support us.

I truly believe that we all should keep our day jobs, but also keep our minds open for other opportunities to increase our assets and decrease our liabilities. If I am financially independent through other means, i.e., investing, real estate, or corporations, then I will practice ophthalmology the way I want to. I want to avoid the rat race where I am encouraged to do 40-60 cataracts a week because there are 5% decreases in Medicare funding. The joke amongst ophthalmologists is how low will you go for cataract surgery? 10 years ago, many said a $1000 per case. Now, some get less than $600 per case. How low will we go?

This is not just ophthalmology. Medicare cuts affects ALL of us.

I agree with what you are saying about forming corporations, but more often than not, the practice of medicine does not lend itself well to a corporate environment. What it boils down to is the same thing that I said in a previous post:

The best way to get wealthy is to own a business that makes money when you're not there. While there are cases of doctors doing this, usually a medical practice is not the place for this strategy.

Regarding your friend with the 70% overhead: I don't know what it's like in ophthalmology, but in optometry, if you can net 30% you are doing very well. She basically has an offer to net 30% without having any of the headaches of running a practice. Am I missing something about that offer because to me, it sounds pretty good?

Regarding declining medicare reimbursement, the only way to fix this is that doctors simply have to stop taking medicare. It takes guts to drop insurance plans, but in the long run it is totally worth it. In my office, I take exactly 2 insurance plans, and medicare is not one of them. Some people will make the argument that seeing a patient for little reimbursement is better than not seeing one and getting zero. I disagree with that philosophy.

Jenny
 
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JennyW said:
Regarding your friend with the 70% overhead: I don't know what it's like in ophthalmology, but in optometry, if you can net 30% you are doing very well. She basically has an offer to net 30% without having any of the headaches of running a practice. Am I missing something about that offer because to me, it sounds pretty good?

Overhead is usually 50-60%. 70% overhead without possibility of buy in is horrible. You're always a highly paid employee.

JennyW said:
Regarding declining medicare reimbursement, the only way to fix this is that doctors simply have to stop taking medicare. It takes guts to drop insurance plans, but in the long run it is totally worth it. In my office, I take exactly 2 insurance plans, and medicare is not one of them. Some people will make the argument that seeing a patient for little reimbursement is better than not seeing one and getting zero. I disagree with that philosophy.

By accepting cash only does not get doctors out of the rat race. You are still working for a paycheck. If you don't work, then there is no money.

If you make other assets work for you as well as reducing your liabilities, then you'll find financial independence.

Here is what Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad Page 139-140) says:

A business consultant who specializes in the medical trade was telling me how many doctors, dentists and chiropractors struggle financially. All this time, I thought that when they graduated, the dollars would pour in. It was this business consultant who gave me the phrase. "They are one skill away from great wealth." What this phrase means is that most people need only to learn and master one more skill and their income would jump exponentially. I have mentioned before that financial intelligence is a synergy of accounting, investing, marketing, and law. Combine these four technical skills and making money with money is easier. When it comes to money, the only skill most people know is to work hard.
 
JennyW said:
I agree with what you are saying about forming corporations, but more often than not, the practice of medicine does not lend itself well to a corporate environment. What it boils down to is the same thing that I said in a previous post.

Jenny, I am reading Kiyosaki's corporation book, and private practices should incorporate for the tax and liability protection.

You should read it if you're interested in maximizing your business potential:

{A110168F-D593-4009-8737-72F545717E5C}Img100.jpg


The laws in this country were designed by people with corporate interests. The tax laws of the corporations allows you as the CEO of your corporation to legally deduct BEFORE TAXES:

1) company cars
2) meals related to business (50%)
3) travel for business meetings
4) child care
5) retirement and benefits for you
6) bonus to employees... even if it's only one employee

You get all of the above with huge tax benefits to the corporation that cannot be achieved with a sole-proprietorship or general partnership.

When a doctor buys a $100,000 car, this car is purchased with $200,000 of earned income (with 50% of it going to federal and state taxes). When a corporation buys a $100,000 car for its employee, it is BEFORE TAX income.

A corporation is nothing more than a piece of paper that acts like an individual, yet, this individual is not you. It is Jenny, Inc.

In addition, the key to wealth is to control everything but own nothing. If your practice gets sued, they can go after your corporation, but it's greatly more difficult to go after your personal assets, e.g., home, personal savings, and personal retirement.
 
Andrew_Doan said:
Jenny, I am reading Kiyosaki's corporation book, and private practices should incorporate for the tax and liability protection.

You should read it if you're interested in maximizing your business potential:

{A110168F-D593-4009-8737-72F545717E5C}Img100.jpg


The laws in this country were designed by people with corporate interests. The tax laws of the corporations allows you as the CEO of your corporation to legally deduct BEFORE TAXES:

1) company cars
2) meals related to business (50%)
3) travel for business meetings
4) child care
5) retirement and benefits for you
6) bonus to employees... even if it's only one employee

You get all of the above with huge tax benefits to the corporation that cannot be achieved with a sole-proprietorship or general partnership.

When a doctor buys a $100,000 car, this car is purchased with $200,000 of earned income (with 50% of it going to federal and state taxes). When a corporation buys a $100,000 car for its employee, it is BEFORE TAX income.

A corporation is nothing more than a piece of paper that acts like an individual, yet, this individual is not you. It is Jenny, Inc.

In addition, the key to wealth is to control everything but own nothing. If your practice gets sued, they can go after your corporation, but it's greatly more difficult to go after your personal assets, e.g., home, personal savings, and personal retirement.

Way ahead of you, Andrew. I've been incorporated for over 9 years, so I'm well aware of all those "benefits" that you describe.

However, it's not always wise to be too excited about tax breaks. I have a friend who was so excited about the large tax deduction her new mortgage gives her. That's good, but really what she's doing is spending $1 to save $0.30.

Also, if your business buys a car, you are essentially buying a car with tax free money since it's a business expense. However, the rates to insure a car for a business are much higher than to insure it for an individual. This is something that you should discuss with your insurance agent and a good CPA because in the long run, you might end up spending MORE for that car if your business buys it.

Lastly, the issue of malpractice varies from state to state. In some states, your personal assets may be more protected, but some states treat malpractice in the same manner as if you assaulted someone. (I forget what the legal term of that is) So if you are an employee of a corporation (or an owner) and you punch someone in the nose while at work, your personal assets can still be the target of a lawsuit. Malpractice (in those states that treat it this way) is the same. In those states, your corporation will offer little or even no protection from malpractice.

Corporations will offer you personal protection from lawsuits such as slip and fall type things though.

Jenny
 
Jenny,

You're right on! :thumbup:

I love these discussions where we can share how to optimize our practice management. Perhaps we should use these forums to discuss ideas about how to do this.

The mind is like a muscle. The more you use it, the stronger it becomes!
 
Andrew_Doan said:
Jenny,

You're right on! :thumbup:

I love these discussions where we can share how to optimize our practice management. Perhaps we should use these forums to discuss ideas about how to do this.

The mind is like a muscle. The more you use it, the stronger it becomes!

As a former tax lawyer and CPA (both licenses still active) I will tell you that incorporating has many advantages, but if done incorrectly it can actually result in more tax liability (primarily b/c of the 2 levels of tax depending on the type of corp). Also, you can only write off purchases (cars, trips, etc.) according to the percentage of the expense used for business purposes. It would be difficult for a practicing Dr. to buy a company car strictly for driving to and from work and legally write off the expenses. If you had an outside business or were a consultant you could write off the car, but again only for the percentage used for your consulting or other business. People do things like this all the time and get away with them, but that does not mean they are necessarily legal---they are just lucky participants in the audit lottery. :laugh:

Rich Dad Poor Dad is a good book, and I recommend it to all my friends for its general ideas (break free from the rat race and let your $ work for you, etc.), but Kiyosaki is not an attorney or CPA. While his co-author is a CPA, you need to remember that both have probably made way more $ as authors of these books and owners of the Rich Dad franchise than they ever made as investors. They would not have sold as many books if they went into the intricacies of tax law.

Again, Rich Dad is a great read, but run the ideas that you take from this book by a qualified professional (this means tax lawyer and CPA in my opinion) before making any moves that could get you in trouble with the IRS.
 
I-eye said:
It would be difficult for a practicing Dr. to buy a company car strictly for driving to and from work and legally write off the expenses. If you had an outside business or were a consultant you could write off the car, but again only for the percentage used for your consulting or other business.

Again, Rich Dad is a great read, but run the ideas that you take from this book by a qualified professional (this means tax lawyer and CPA in my opinion) before making any moves that could get you in trouble with the IRS.

Great advice! :thumbup:

I agree. I don't plan on incorporating a private practice because I will be in academia.

However, a car can be deducted for many ophthalmologists I know who work out of several outpatient clinics. They travel all the time.

I have two lawyers and a former CFO on my team. Starting a business with sound foundations are key.

Also keep in mind, that many of these concepts are not rocket science. Another book that outlines the important steps of accounting and forming a business can be found here:

http://store.fictionwise.com/servlet/mw?t=book&bi=4328&si=50

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Andrew_Doan said:
Rich Dad, Poor Dad: What the Rich Teach Their Kids About Money--That the Poor and Middle Class Do Not!

by Robert T. Kiyosaki, Sharon L. Lechter

Just some trivia:

Anyone tell me where the school that Kiyosaki attended is located?
And to make things a little tougher: it's motto?
 
U.S. Merchant Marine Academy in Kings Point, NY

Motto: "Acta non verba," translates as "Deeds, not words." :D


pretty controversial author
check out this article describing the inconsistencies in his past :confused:

http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

tell me what you think Andy

Stones
 
glacayo said:
U.S. Merchant Marine Academy in Kings Point, NY

Motto: "Acta non verba," translates as "Deeds, not words." :D


pretty controversial author
check out this article describing the inconsistencies in his past :confused:

http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

tell me what you think Andy

Stones

Pretty good glacayo. That guy Reed has it out for him for some reason. They must not have gotten along in a past life or something.

As for the trivia. Just wanted to get a plug out there for the only real Academy ;) especially since there's so few of us in the medical field from there.
 
Who is Reed anyway? Where are his companies? People who read Kiyosaki miss the point. He may not be THE real estate guru, but he IS a jack of all trades and keeps his eyes open for opportunities.

The messages I get from his book that people should take home:

1) Learn about basic finances, such as how to read a profit and loss sheet.

2) Work to learn, not for a paycheck. With experience, your knowledge allows you to develop ideas, products, and services that will pay you 1000s of times more than the paycheck that you should have received.

3) Professionals like physicians, lawyers, and academics are notorious for being bad with money. However, these group of highly talented people are one skill away from enormous wealth. Think about what skills in business, marketing, computer science, and other disciplines that will increase YOUR value to the field of medicine.

4) You must think big. If you think you CAN'T, then your're right. If you think you can, then you're also right. Do you think the Super Bowl champs, Olympic Champions, and World Series Champs go into the season thinking they can't win? They are thinking like Champions before the first day of the season.

Regardless what Reed thinks, Kiyosaki knows how to form a team. Kiyosaki knows he can't write, so he forms a TEAM to write a book and share the wealth. That is smart. Do you think Bill Gates conquered the software industry by himself? Do you think PayPal.com evolved from Xcom to a $1.5 Billion merger with eBay in less than 2 years with only Peter Thiel as the CEO and only employee? All these companies had leaders who formed effective and powerful teams. One + One = Eight when you put two people who work well together.

A Navy Seal by himself is dead. A Navy Seal TEAM is a powerful force.

Reed is what Kiyosaki calls the "Chicken Littles" of the world. Don't be a chicken little. Be a visionary thinker, and be an invidual of action.
 
Andrew_Doan said:
Who is Reed anyway? Where are his companies? People who read Kiyosaki miss the point. He may not be THE real estate guru, but he IS a jack of all trades and keeps his eyes open for opportunities.

The messages I get from his book that people should take home:

1) Learn about basic finances, such as how to read a profit and loss sheet.

2) Work to learn, not for a paycheck. With experience, your knowledge allows you to develop ideas, products, and services that will pay you 1000s of times more than the paycheck that you should have received.

3) Professionals like physicians, lawyers, and academics are notorious for being bad with money. However, these group of highly talented people are one skill away from enormous wealth. Think about what skills in business, marketing, computer science, and other disciplines that will increase YOUR value to the field of medicine.

4) You must think big. If you think you CAN'T, then your're right. If you think you can, then you're also right. Do you think the Super Bowl champs, Olympic Champions, and World Series Champs go into the season thinking they can't win? They are thinking like Champions before the first day of the season.

Regardless what Reed thinks, Kiyosaki knows how to form a team. Kiyosaki knows he can't write, so he forms a TEAM to write a book and share the wealth. That is smart. Do you think Bill Gates conquered the software industry by himself? Do you think PayPal.com evolved from Xcom to a $1.5 Billion merger with eBay in less than 2 years with only Peter Thiel as the CEO and only employee? All these companies had leaders who formed effective and powerful teams. One + One = Eight when you put two people who work well together.

A Navy Seal by himself is dead. A Navy Seal TEAM is a powerful force.

Reed is what Kiyosaki calls the "Chicken Littles" of the world. Don't be a chicken little. Be a visionary thinker, and be an invidual of action.

Andrew,

Theoretically, I agree that's it's always better to have more money than less. But if everyone on this website really wanted to be fantastically rich, we wouldn't have gone to medical/optometry/etc. school.

I didn't go to OD school to get rich. I went to learn how to be an optometrist. I really really like it. And I realize that I could eventually employ ODs to make money for me. But for me, there are more important things than money.

The more doctors I hire to work for me, the more time I spend managing people and the less time I spend looking at eyeballs. I don't like managing people (or property, for that matter). The loss of quality of life is not an equal trade for me.

Do you really consider yourself a "rat" for doing what you do? If you have this opinion, then I understand why you want out. Please realize that 'rat race' implies blindly, stupidly, plodding along to make a buck at something you don't enjoy.

One other problem with the rat race analogy in medicine is that in a real rat race some rats actually win. Heck, even if you start as a cashier at McDonalds, you can imagine yourself working up to being a franchise owner. If you work for a long time at medicine, what you become is a better doctor. It's hard to measure that in dollars, but to the patients you treat, it's priceless. As you said yourself: Work to learn, not for a paycheck. Well, I'm learning to be a better doctor.

I'm always going to make enough money to be happy. Anyone who doesn't make enough money to be happy on a doctor's typical median income might want to re-examine their priorities.

Just playing devil's advocate,

Tom Stickel
Indiana U. School of Optometry 2001
 
Hi Tom,

I am in the rat race if I must work for a paycheck. The key is to keep the day job and mind a business/idea/intellectual property at night to produce passive income.

The rat race in medicine is when insurance companies and Medicare dictate how much we are paid. Surgeons must see more and more patients and complete more surgery to make ends meet.

I don't advocate quitting your day job. I encourage you to be the best doctor you can be for your patients! :thumbup:
 
Hi Tom,

I am in the rat race if I must work for a paycheck. The key is to keep the day job and mind a business/idea/intellectual property at night to produce passive income.

The rat race in medicine is when insurance companies and Medicare dictate how much we are paid. Surgeons must see more and more patients and complete more surgery to make ends meet.

I don't advocate quitting your day job. I encourage you to be the best doctor you can be for your patients! :thumbup:

Dr. Doan,

What percentage of your income (say, over the past 5 or 10 years) was generated by your day job (as opposed to your passive income)? If the trends over the past 5 or 10 years continue, what percentage of your income would you expect to be passive 5 or 10 years from now?

If I understand your comment correctly here, would it be fair to say that running a practice that was able to attract a large number of patients but not take insurance or medicare would be a preferred route if you were in private practice?

Finally, why even bother to go into medicine and not just do real estate or other types of investing to begin with if "The rat race in medicine is when insurance companies and Medicare dictate how much we are paid. Surgeons must see more and more patients and complete more surgery to make ends meet. "
 
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Finally, why even bother to go into medicine and not just do real estate or other types of investing to begin with if "The rat race in medicine is when insurance companies and Medicare dictate how much we are paid. Surgeons must see more and more patients and complete more surgery to make ends meet. "


Because medicine is an intensely beautiful and fulfilling art; and is one that anybody in their right mind would want to practice. If prudent investing will allow me the freedom to practice it the way I want to, then Andrew is on to something.
 
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