Prestigious Undergrad

zogoto said:

Harvard has an average GPA 3.55-3.6.

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Just out of curiosity, where did you get this number? And are you citing that as the average GPA of Harvard students accepted to medical school, or the average GPA for all Harvard students?

tiamat360 said:

Just out of curiosity, where did you get this number? And are you citing that as the average GPA of Harvard students accepted to medical school, or the average GPA for all Harvard students?

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I have 3.52 for all Harvard & Yale med school applicants. Princeton is a bit lower (grade deflation?), and Brown is a little higher (grade inflation?). All are in the middle of the pack.

Keep in mind that more than half of all applicants do not get in during a given cycle. I don't know which schools have the best track records (and which get there with weed out courses that crush the dreams of all but the very best) but I'd be in awe of any school that gets more than 60% of its undergrad pre-meds admitted to med school (excluding the very small schools that send out one applicant every few years and can rack up 100% by advising and selecting well).

LizzyM said:

I have 3.52 for all Harvard & Yale med school applicants. Princeton is a bit lower (grade deflation?), and Brown is a little higher (grade inflation?). All are in the middle of the pack.

Keep in mind that more than half of all applicants do not get in during a given cycle. I don't know which schools have the best track records (and which get there with weed out courses that crush the dreams of all but the very best) but I'd be in awe of any school that gets more than 60% of its undergrad pre-meds admitted to med school (excluding the very small schools that send out one applicant every few years and can rack up 100% by advising and selecting well).

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The last stats I saw for Stanford were from 2005; I believe the average GPA of applicants was about the same, and average GPA for accepted applicants was more like 3.6. The percentage of students who were accepted was about 74%. As far as I know, weaker students are not encouraged to not apply, but there is certainly "weeding out" in the sense that many students who encounter organic chemistry decide that being pre-med is no longer for them.

guis, I werked real hard in udergrad and I wunt to an State Skool instid of a IV? I Mai B DISVNTGE cuz I PIKED Public U? Can I has gewd MEIDCAL SKOOL? CAN EYEZ go TO A GEWD MEIDCAL SKOOL?

If I listened to some of you, the answer to the above would be a resounding NO!

Ironically, I will be.

LizzyM said:

Don't forget that they are chosen for interviews. The top schools provide opportunities for for shadowing, volunteering, research, and interesting leisure time activities for students who want them and the advising seems to be very good. That gives applicants from those schools an advantage over students from schools where every extra-curricular was a struggle and where the advising was piss-poor (I've seen some poorly prepared applicants from some top schools and I've come to suspect that the advising at some of them is not so hot... but I'm not going to name names).

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An excellent point...the main extracurriculars I've participated in are not even available at my state school (and please don't reply with "I go to Ann Arbor, Berkeley, Chapel Hill etc and our extracurriculars are amazing...you know that's not the point)

"But the success rate for Yale students vying for spots in medical schools significantly differs from the national average. For the class of 2006, 90 to 95 percent of Yalies who applied to medical school were admitted...."

http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/22590

Just a few minutes ago, I was under the impression that ivies would have a significantly higher med. school acceptance rate overall.

I looked this up on Cornell's website (I couldn't find any other ivies' med. school acceptance rates available to the public) and their overall acceptance rates are I was really surprised.

http://www.career.cornell.edu/downloads/AaChart2007ForWeb.pdf

68% of Cornell students who applied to medical school got in. My (private non-top 40 school) school had a 67% acceptance rate.

I haven't looked at any other schools.. except these two. But thoughts? Anyone surprised/expected such numbers?

LizzyM said:

If isn't the case that a 3.4 with mostly fluffly courses at an Ivy beats a 3.7 in hard sciences at a no-name school.

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interesting.
personally i don't agree with/like the outcome (i come from a small liberal arts college), but then again i'm not an adcom.

if the ivy has a 3.5 or above, i would have no problem.

I think the point has been made

You CAN get yourself into ANY medical school from any accredited four year university. But it depends on YOU, and getting the most out of the rescources you have available. The instition can supply those rescources (and some have more rescouces than others) but you are the one that has the ability to get yourself accepted.

a 4.0 gpa, 40 mcat, good extracurriculars, and research will get accepted regardless of the undergrad

and a 2.7 gpa, 20 mcat will not get accepted regardless of the undergrad

bozz said:

Just a few minutes ago, I was under the impression that ivies would have a significantly higher med. school acceptance rate overall.

I looked this up on Cornell's website (I couldn't find any other ivies' med. school acceptance rates available to the public) and their overall acceptance rates are I was really surprised.

http://www.career.cornell.edu/downloads/AaChart2007ForWeb.pdf

68% of Cornell students who applied to medical school got in. My (private non-top 40 school) school had a 67% acceptance rate.

I haven't looked at any other schools.. except these two. But thoughts? Anyone surprised/expected such numbers?

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Cornell is part state school, with favoritism for New Yorkers and cheapt tuition--my speculation is that the state part of the school like the agricultural schools etc bring down the averages as compared to the college of arts and sciences and other private parts of cornell.

gatorsbball said:

Wait a minute.... so the class average was in the high 70s, and this translated to only a C+?? Wow, that's so ridiculous...

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I'm confused... many classes have C+ averages

mmmcdowe said:

I agree, and I think that us public schoolers are a bit biased in the sense that the vast majority of us come from good public schools. Most of us come from schools that do have huge programs involving research and ecs that are more comparable to private schools. I'm willing to lay the ecs offered at my school toe to toe with private, but I wouldn't be willing to lay the ecs of, say, Northern Michigan University, against Harvard's. Schools like Arizona State, Ohio State, Florida State, as well as the ones you mentioned have far more resources than some public schools.

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To be honest, I don't usually hear Arizona or Florida State mentioned at the same level as UVA, Cal, or the like...but I think you get my point.

Daffy99 said:

"But the success rate for Yale students vying for spots in medical schools significantly differs from the national average. For the class of 2006, 90 to 95 percent of Yalies who applied to medical school were admitted...."

http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/22590

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This is sooo frustrating.

90-95% of Yale students applying to med school get accepted BOTH because they are excellent candidates AND because of the quality of the education they received.

this is such a "duh" point that i really do not understand why we discuss it (but we do).

ALSO, saying a 4.0/40 student from no name school will get into a lot of med schools and the 2.0/20 from Yale won't is also a useless point. Yale does not have 100% of its students get accepted!!!!! the 2.0/20 falls into the 5% who do NOT get accepted. again "duh."

The only interesting issue in this thread is if you have a 3.4 from Yale and a 3.6 from no name, both with comparable everything else:

THE YALIE GETS IT!!!!!! As the Yalie's states go down and the no name stats go up, you start to see different results.

C'mon, I know you all didn't go to Yale or Harvard, but this isn't rocket science.

luvumeanit said:

This is sooo frustrating.


The only interesting issue in this thread is if you have a 3.4 from Yale and a 3.6 from no name, both with comparable everything else:

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Wrong. I don't think it's important to fare the Yalie against the no name and to see whether one would get in over the other. I think it's more important to determine whether or not it's possible for BOTH to get in. If the Yalie can get in with a 3.4, then surely the no name will get in with a 3.6 and similar ECs/MCAT/etc.

The point is not that undergrad prestige has no effect; the point is that undergrad prestige has such a small effect that two candidates from different schools of different prestige, but having similar stats, will most likely both get in or both get rejected. The main situation in which the person who goes to the school with higher prestige gets in and the person who goes to the no name gets rejected is when both are on the fence and the decision really does come down to finding the nitpicky differences between both candidates. Otherwise, it depends more on the person than on the school from which he or she came.

**Granted, it's rare that you'll see an Ivy student with EXACTLY the same ECs as a no name student, mostly because the Ivy student probably had better opportunities than the no name student (because of the prestige of their school)**

junkct said:

Wrong. I don't think it's important to fare the Yalie against the no name and to see whether one would get in over the other. I think it's more important to determine whether or not it's possible for BOTH to get in. If the Yalie can get in with a 3.4, then surely the no name will get in with a 3.6 and similar ECs/MCAT/etc.

The point is not that undergrad prestige has no effect; the point is that undergrad prestige has such a small effect that two candidates from different schools of different prestige, but having similar stats, will most likely both get in or both get rejected. ...

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Which part of the "up to +0.3 GPA" did you not get? The effect of your school rank can be small in some cases, and very significant in others (unless you think that +0.3 to +0.5 in GPA is a "small effect"). And think about it, comparing Brown to UCs doesn't account for too much of a difference, but comparing Harvard to University of Miami (that won "the most superficial" award by the students) or another college that has won "awards" for being the worst, is clearly not the same.

Some of you guys either don't read or just don't get it. You have never been in med school and don't have the faintest idea about what's going on behind the closed doors of admissions. So then why throw around misleading information? Unless you too have talked to several adcoms, your opinion is just that, an opinion. Premeds who choose their undergrad based on what other premeds shout out in this forum are in it deep. I have seen several threads already where people have expressed a wish to not have listened to the advice in here and gone to a better school because they are now suffering in terms of getting admitted to even a single medcial school, despite close to average stats. And this chase doesn't stop when you choose a med school because you do still have to get into a good residency.

Two things I have learned reading these forums
1) Do not go to a hard undergrad thinking it'll help....
2) Do not pick a hard science major thinking it'll help....

Advice to high schoolers...just go to whichever school is convenient and pick a relatively easy major. It really seems its all about your GPA, MCAT, and EC's. Intangibles like that don't matter

Excelsius said:

I have seen several threads already where people have expressed a wish to not have listened to the advice in here and gone to a better school because they are now suffering in terms of getting admitted to even a single medcial school

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People love to place the blame on everyone/everything except for themselves. Someone from an ivy doesn't get into med school and it's because his school was so difficult it ruined his grades. Someone from a lesser state school doesn't get into med school and it's because he opted not to go to the more prestigious ivy. At the end of the day you have to do well no matter where you go, and being close to average doesn't guarantee you'll get into schools, nor does being well above average.

RSAgator said:

People love to place the blame on everyone/everything except for themselves. Someone from an ivy doesn't get into med school and it's because his school was so difficult it ruined his grades. Someone from a lesser state school doesn't get into med school and it's because he opted not to go to the more prestigious ivy. At the end of the day you have to do well no matter where you go, and being close to average doesn't guarantee you'll get into schools, nor does being well above average.

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well said.

Excelsius said:

Unless you too have talked to several adcoms, your opinion is just that, an opinion.

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I have. In fact, my best friend's dad is one (at an upper-tier med school).

Med schools realize that not everyone can go to a good undergrad (whether for financial issues, family issues, health issues, or whatever else). They are not going to penalize you for your choice of undergrad. If an Ivy student and a state student are the same in all regards, and they apply to the exact same schools, I'm sure that they'll be getting into all of the same schools. The point is that undergrad prestige, if it is a factor, plays a very small factor. An Ivy education is not a golden ticket, nor is a state education a black mark.

However, as I said before (and as LizzyM mentioned), it's a hell of a lot easier to put together strong ECs and get good advising at a top-tier undergrad, which is why they end up becoming better applicants in the end. IMHO, I find it really impressive when a state school student can measure up to those standards with the resources they have

junkct said:

IMHO, I find it really impressive when a state school student can measure up to those standards with the resources they have

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Good post.

The school's I've attended have no pre-medical committee and generally the students have NO IDEA what they're really getting themselves into and who they're competing against for a very limited number of seats. I'd have to say 80-90% of the students at my school probably have zero to very little EC's built up by the time they apply to medical school. They've got no advising, the school has no relationships developed with local hospitals, etc. which would facilitate the development of EC's, and generally the professors become a source of "knowledge" for students and they give out horrible information! E.g. I was once told by a professor: "just get a few 9's on your MCAT and you'll be golden. It's not that hard." <--

Hmm, I've been reading this thread for a while and decided to post my two cents, having been on both sides of the spectrum. I went to a decent undergrad (NYU) and had a 3.5+ majoring in psych. I did my post-bacc at CCNY (City College) and had a 3.93 (pre-reqs only). Do I think the courses were easier at City College? Yes, but I was also a better student than I was when I attended NYU, so in that sense, I think higher-ranked schools should (and do) impact your application positively, but not extremely so.

On the other hand, I had a great advisor at CCNY whereas I never saw my advisor at NYU. At last count, there were 15 out of 57 applicants accepted to med school already this cycle (~25%), pretty good for December. As far as ECs and opportunities go, I did one research internship at NYU and everything else I found on my own. I'm fairly certain I would have had equal access in that case since both schools are in New York.

To sum up (and I agree with most of what's been said so far), if you do well at whatever school you attend, you'll get in to med school. Don't stress so much over whether someone from a top-ranked or unranked school is stealing your spot, focus on your own application.

RSAgator said:

People love to place the blame on everyone/everything except for themselves. Someone from an ivy doesn't get into med school and it's because his school was so difficult it ruined his grades. Someone from a lesser state school doesn't get into med school and it's because he opted not to go to the more prestigious ivy. At the end of the day you have to do well no matter where you go, and being close to average doesn't guarantee you'll get into schools, nor does being well above average.

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That happens, but is irrelevant in this discussion. We are talking about the bias of individual adcoms. And sometimes bias is not the same as prejudice.

mmmcdowe said:

It isn't the prestige of the university that gives you that boost though, its the difficulty of the university. HYP are hard schools, and I think there should be a GPA shift to compensate.

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Of course, that's always the intention. The problem is that it is not easy to tell what school is more difficult or less difficult. I mentioned this before that the CC that I attended was more difficult than the UC according to many students (students who transferred used to come back and urge the students to NOT take higher level courses at the CC because it was much easier at the UC, and we're talking about places like UCLA). But that doesn't matter. Adcoms are not going to sit there and try to rank the difficulty of every single little college in the unknown holes of USA. When you need a fast and easy rule to judge, you just go by the rankings, which is the "prestige."

mmmcdowe said:

It isn't the prestige of the university that gives you that boost though, its the difficulty of the university. HYP are hard schools, and I think there should be a GPA shift to compensate.

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Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't Harvard get a slap on the wrist a few years back for some serious grade inflation?

I can't believe there is yet another thread on this topic that has gone on way too long. This issue will never be resolved, why are we still trying?

It seems like some people are staking out untenable positions by saying it doesn't matter at all or it's absolutely somewhere between +0.3 and +0.5

The bottom line seems to be that it matters somewhat, that amount probably varies school to school, and you should work hard wherever you are. Yes, it might be a slight boost if you go to a top school, but you are shooting yourself in the foot if you believe it will be +0.5 everywhere. (Ie I know a guy who went to HYP and had a 3.2 but his list was mostly top 20 schools. He got into one mid-tier school off of the waitlist, so the story has a happy ending, but his winter/spring would have been more pleasant if he had applied in a way that matched his credentials better).

So what's the argument?

WaterBird said:

It seems like some people are staking out untenable positions by saying it doesn't matter at all or it's absolutely somewhere between +0.3 and +0.5

The bottom line seems to be that it matters somewhat, that amount probably varies school to school, and you should work hard wherever you are. Yes, it might be a slight boost if you go to a top school, but you are shooting yourself in the foot if you believe it will be +0.5 everywhere. (Ie I know a guy who went to HYP and had a 3.2 but his list was mostly top 20 schools. He got into one mid-tier school off of the waitlist, so the story has a happy ending, but his winter/spring would have been more pleasant if he had applied in a way that matched his credentials better).

So what's the argument?

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Question: who gets in to ANY med school with a 3.2?

Answer: Harvard and Yale grads.

Mods: You may close the thread now. We're done.

Livingapparatus said:

a 4.0 gpa, 40 mcat, good extracurriculars, and research will get accepted regardless of the undergrad

and a 2.7 gpa, 20 mcat will not get accepted regardless of the undergrad

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However, I think the point of this thread is to try to compare the finer distinction: It's not very instructive to compare a 40/4.0 to a 2.0/20. I think the question is something more like does the "ivy-factor" give you the benefit of 1-2 points on the mcat or 0.1 to 0.2 points of GPA.

Disclaimer: I attend a top 20 university.

-Roy

Excelsius said:

That happens, but is irrelevant in this discussion. We are talking about the bias of individual adcoms. And sometimes bias is not the same as prejudice.

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Maybe I misunderstood your post then. I thought you said that the people saying that school doesn't matter are stating baseless opinions as fact, and then as support for this you mentioned how many posts you've seen of people saying they would have gotten in had they went to a better school. Isn't that also just an opinion?

RSAgator said:

Maybe I misunderstood your post then. I thought you said that the people saying that school doesn't matter are stating baseless opinions as fact, and then as support for this you mentioned how many posts you've seen of people saying they would have gotten in had they went to a better school. Isn't that also just an opinion?

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Analogy: if several reputable blacksmiths tell you that under certain conditions a hammer can chip, that's basis for evidence. Then, if you find chipped metal at the area where you work with hammers, you can extrapolate that the chipped metal has probably broken off from the hammer. It may or may not be so, but given that you have proof from blacksmiths that the phenomenon is real, the probability that at least some of the metal chips are parts of the hammer is high. The chips do not have to be used as supporting evidence since the evidence comes directly from blacksmiths. However, they can serve as a possible outcome based on the previously supplied evidence, which is not affected by your ability or inability to observe the chips themselved

the more interesting question is

What exactly is a "no-name" school?

Any school not in the top 50? top 100? community college?

luvumeanit said:

Question: who gets in to ANY med school with a 3.2?

Answer: Harvard and Yale grads.

Mods: You may close the thread now. We're done.

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I feel horrible for those Stanford and Princeton premeds then, because those are the best two undergraduate institutions... and they're just being left out for those Yale and Harvard undergrads. What a shame.

You can be pretty damn certain that if you got a 3.4 and a 27 at either Yale or Harvard, you will get into a "bottom tier" medical school. Just like if you had a 3.7 and a 33 you would be pretty much a shoo-in for medical school, and likely will have multiple acceptances to mid and upper tier schools.

Hopefully no one is relying on their undergrad institution's name to be their safety net for poor grades (i.e. cum<3.5).

Vadd0 said:

You can be pretty damn certain that if you got a 3.4 and a 27 at either Yale or Harvard, you will get into a "bottom tier" medical school.

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Honestly? An applicant with a low GPA and a 27? What, did the AAMC make the MCAT harder for him because he's an ivy league grad?

For all you ivy people: you can pay for school but you cant buy class


I'm very unimpressed by the way you guys handled yourselves in this thread


There is obviously a difference between Top schools and lower ranked schools, and Adcoms take it into account.

You dont need to come here and say that people with 3.2-3.4 that get in are only from Harvard and Yale. I'm sure other people from different schools also get in.

This thread went downhill starting from the third page, it really should be closed

LizzyM said:

I have 3.52 for all Harvard & Yale med school applicants. Princeton is a bit lower (grade deflation?), and Brown is a little higher (grade inflation?). All are in the middle of the pack.

Keep in mind that more than half of all applicants do not get in during a given cycle. I don't know which schools have the best track records (and which get there with weed out courses that crush the dreams of all but the very best) but I'd be in awe of any school that gets more than 60% of its undergrad pre-meds admitted to med school (excluding the very small schools that send out one applicant every few years and can rack up 100% by advising and selecting well).

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UCLA which is a pretty good public undergrad only has approximately 50% admissions rate... but this might be because we have no REAL premed counseling...

RoyBasch said:

However, I think the point of this thread is to try to compare the finer distinction: It's not very instructive to compare a 40/4.0 to a 2.0/20. I think the question is something more like does the "ivy-factor" give you the benefit of 1-2 points on the mcat or 0.1 to 0.2 points of GPA.

Disclaimer: I attend a top 20 university.

-Roy

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Its up to the student to get into med school, the undergrad doesnt take the MCAT for you. You did. Give yourself some credit. Thats all I have been saying.

I get it, I understand, but I no longer care about it


Disclaimer: I attend a top 120 university

The MCAT is the great equalizer.

Ivy 30 <<< Low-tier 40

Disclaimer: I go to a top 1000 university.

Proud to say that I come from a "crappy" state school in Arkansas and I just got an interview at Hopkins... anything's possible

PinkPlumpy said:

I think in our engineering chem section, the average grade last semester was a C+ even though the averages were in the high 70s and low 80s. It's pretty crazy.

I know I am learning a lot more than I would have at my state school, but I can't help feeling kinda sad looking at my comparatively dismal GPA. I would have probably had pretty close to a 4.0 at my state school.

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Every time I read this it makes me laugh

High 70s low 80s is approximately C+ work! The course average of C+ is pretty darn fair if you ask me. My biochem class, at a state school, that I just finished, and I thought was SUPER lenient, averaged a C- after the final (72%); C- = repeat for majors; so that means the average student had a repeat grade.

Seems like the MCAT should be the equalizer between any GPA differences?

Plus, better students on average go to better schools, so it's no surprise to see a lot of top-20 students interviewing at the best schools. That would be expected, I think.

Vadd0 said:

guis, I werked real hard in udergrad and I wunt to an State Skool instid of a IV? I Mai B DISVNTGE cuz I PIKED Public U? Can I has gewd MEIDCAL SKOOL? CAN EYEZ go TO A GEWD MEIDCAL SKOOL?

If I listened to some of you, the answer to the above would be a resounding NO!

Ironically, I will be.

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I agree with you Vadd0. In my past SDN life, albeit a short one, I was flamed for saying that something was wrong with SDN when you had people posting things out of what seemed to be a state of stereotypical, premed delirium. Even the personal "advice" I received from the more revered posters was discouraging... but I'm not going to name names. Overall, I found SDN very unwelcoming, so I left and decided to do my own thing. I ended up getting into Hopkins on top of many other fortunes this cycle.

I must say that, as I've gone through this process, I've been amazed by how wrong much I what I read on SDN was. Truth be told, 90% of the stuff on this forum is pure speculation, myth. That's all you can expect from premeds who really are in the dark about applying to med school. All this does is promote anxiety and propagate misinformation.

To the premeds just starting out: do yourselves a favor and stay away from this site until application time. Or at least stick to the more frivolous threads, (the premed photos are fun). Ignore the oh-no-I-got-an-A-minus, a-C-will-kill-you, which-major-should-i-choose, which-extracurricular, which-class, which-tie, which-food, which-side-of-the-bed-should-i-get-up-from threads. Furthermore, forget about the MSAR statistics, GPA*MCAT=Admission equations, school "prestige" and all the other crap. When application time arrives, come back to SDN only to get logistical information such as interview travel info etc.

Until then, work hard and pursue everything that is important to you.

PinkPlumpy said:

Most people seem to say that it doesn't matter going to a top undergrad. Med schools apparently don't care and that a 3.5 at an ivy is basically the same as a 3.5 at a state school.
I go to an ivy and I love it here. I love the intellectual atmosphere which was missing at my state school. I took math courses (up to Calc III) at my state school and basically got As without much studying. But here I can't dream of not studying. Even with a lot of studying, its hard to get an A since the curves are really harsh. I think in our engineering chem section, the average grade last semester was a C+ even though the averages were in the high 70s and low 80s. It's pretty crazy.
I know I am learning a lot more than I would have at my state school, but I can't help feeling kinda sad looking at my comparatively dismal GPA. I would have probably had pretty close to a 4.0 at my state school. So, my question is, do med schools actually factor in that I am in an ivy where the science classes have harsh curves and that I am an engineering major?
I want to get an MD/PhD because I love research and am interested in that side of medicine also...

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The average is supposed to be a C, which is supposed to be in the 70's. Perhaps you are more of an average person than your mother told you-- a shocking thought, I know. However, the truth is, most of us aren't that many standard deviations away from the mean.

CantFigure1Out said:

I agree with you Vadd0. In my past SDN life, albeit a short one, I was flamed for saying that something was wrong with SDN when you had people posting things out of what seemed to be a state of stereotypical, premed delirium. Even the personal "advice" I received from the more revered posters was discouraging... but I'm not going to name names. Overall, I found SDN very unwelcoming, so I left and decided to do my own thing. I ended up getting into Hopkins on top of many other fortunes this cycle.

I must say that, as I've gone through this process, I've been amazed by how wrong much I what I read on SDN was. Truth be told, 90% of the stuff on this forum is pure speculation, myth. That's all you can expect from premeds who really are in the dark about applying to med school. All this does is promote anxiety and propagate misinformation.

To the premeds just starting out: do yourselves a favor and stay away from this site until application time. Or at least stick to the more frivolous threads, (the premed photos are fun). Ignore the oh-no-I-got-an-A-minus, a-C-will-kill-you, which-major-should-i-choose, which-extracurricular, which-class, which-tie, which-food, which-side-of-the-bed-should-i-get-up-from threads. Furthermore, forget about the MSAR statistics, GPA*MCAT=Admission equations, school "prestige" and all the other crap. When application time arrives, come back to SDN only to get logistical information such as interview travel info etc.

Until then, work hard and pursue everything that is important to you.

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I understand your frustration. When I started out here and at another forum, I was frustrated too. However, I didn't let every little comment get to me and after about eight months of perusing the forums, I have learned a lot of great information and know more than a lot of people here who spend their time mostly socializing. SDN can be very helpful if you use it properly. If you always remember that most of the users on pre-allo forums are 18-22 year olds who are neurotic and not well-informed, you will learn to triple check any advice you get. If you are asking for a life-changing advice, you should always talk to several people and preferably post in some of ther other subforums. There are other great subforums here, such as the Mentor and the MCAT forums. There are advisers and adcoms floating around here too and you can learn by simply reading threads about other people's problems. Finally, it takes a lot of determination to become a doctor. If someone on SDN says you can't do something and you don't do it, then you don't have enough determination for the process. Some of the harshness that you receive on these forums is very helpful as well. It raises the bar so much that you realize that you have to do a lot of work. You can never really over-prepare and you end up becoming a better candidate than you would have otherwise been.

Same thing with MSAR. It is a great guiding tool, but it cannot predict where you will be admitted. I have seen people with very low GPAs be rejected from the lower ranking schools but be admitted at a top school.

Congratulations on Hopkins. If you're a non-trad, I'd encourage you to post your story in the non-trad acceptance thread. There is no better way to correct those who were wrong and provide good advice to inexperienced and experienced pre-meds.

CantFigure1Out said:

Until then, work hard and pursue everything that is important to you.

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I wonder about a lot of the things posted here. why would you trust some random strangers to pick your major/tie/ecs?

RoyBasch said:

I am going to say so far as to say it does not factor in at all. I attend a top 20 undergrad and have a lower than average (for a medical school applicant GPA) of 3.7 I was rejected from my instate school. I called for interview feedback (which they provide) and they informed me that a major concern of theirs was my GPA (PARTICULARLY specific grades in certain science classes). Honestly if your GPA is below a 3.7 do what it takes to raise it, even at ivy-type schools there are classes that are easier than others. Perhaps it sounds as if I am being overly pessimistic, but this is my experience.
-Roy

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There is a lot that can factor into a 3.7.

A UCLA medical school admissions representative told my prehealth club that "Not all 3.6s are equal."

What he meant was that UCLA actually curves UP a person's GPA. If, for example, I started off at a 3.4 one year, averaged a 3.6 the next year, and averaged a 3.8 the year after that, then my overall GPA would be a 3.6. However, that upward trend would show UCLA that I am actually capable of performing at a 3.8 level.

Also, I would be averaging a 3.8 in my later year, when I would be taking upper division classes. This tells a school a lot when you can demonstrate a solid performance in higher level work. Especially if you are a science major.

I agree with the UCLA rep, not all GPAs are equal in the end.