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appleanesthesia

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I am an anesthesiologist 1 year out of residency. I'm a DO, not MD - but I did do an MD anesthesiology residency.

First, let me say that being a DO has not made one iota of a difference in salary, respect, or patient care despite what many pre-meds think. I was worried when I chose to go DO, but I have yet to have a patient say "what's a DO?, etc." None of my colleagues, surgeons, nurses, patients give two sh*ts about the letters behind my name. So, if you are (fooslishly) thinking about medicine, definitely consider DO skool as well as MD skool.

Second, get out while you can! Medicine is fundamentally changing and until the gov't pays for your entire medical training like in Europe, etc., finishing medicine and residency 8 years from now will leave you with big debt and little income - something like an upside-down mortgage. You guys have no idea what you're getting into and just hope for the best because you are admirably very idealistic - I was too I admit. But I rationalized it out and stuck with it. This time however - it really is different.

After "Medicare for all" passes, I expect my salary will go down 40-70% i.e. about $80k. Our anesthesia group with 50+ docs have already crunched the numbers with our billing dept. Fortunately I don't have any skool loans, but I know of other recent grads like me with $3000 / mo loan payments! Ouch! Medicare rates simply aren't enough to cover rent, electricity, employees, etc without working even more than doctors already do.

And you have no idea how crappy it is to get paged at 4AM after you've just laid down your head at midnight after working 17 hours with a couple of breaks here/there. When this page occurs your heart races, you wake up disoriented, and you have to force open your burning eyes. Sometimes, you still have to keep on working starting again at 7AM the next day until 12-3PM! At this point, you start forgetting things - stethocope, pens, maybe even mislabeling drugs (hopefully you catch that one though). Can you imagine how busy we'll be when we have even more patients since after health reform passes, everyone will have insurance that pays next to nothing!

Many of my colleagues, especially the older ones, already have firm plans in place to stop practicing once this health care reform passes. You should too. You are actually really lucky people in that you haven't yet sacrificed your 20's-30's studying/on call/going into debt for an honorable profession that is financially non-sensical.

It's not too late to turn back now, and I'm not disgruntled - just saying it as I see it - and I'm right smack in the middle of it. I come from a long family line of physicians - and I'll be the first to tell my son to really reconsider medicine if he wants to do it.

Good luck.
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I need to say that medicine is still an honorable profession, still challenging, and can be fun.

Just don't go into medicine expecting a 6-figure salary anymore. If you can live with 3000$ debt payments per month after you finish residency, then by all means sign up for that first call and enjoy the ride.

Otherwise, like brett michaels said recently, "sometimes the reward for taking the high road is nothing."

I do enjoy helping my patients and alleviating their pain. What a cool thing to be able to do. Would I enjoy this if my salary were $80k? Sure! But throw in a bunch of call, 16 hr days, weekend call, and suddenly I wonder if my future reimbursement is 50% less than today' - maybe I will take just 50% less care of my patients. Don't believe me? Just go to the VA and see how Medicare for all works for them.
 
Thanks, I'll make sure to do more research on the subject. Would you be so kind as to point in the right direction? Why do you spell school wrong? I highly doubt that doctors will make only 80k a year.
 
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CoolWhipp said:
Thanks, I'll make sure to do more research on the subject. Would you be so kind as to point in the right direction? Why do you spell school wrong? I highly doubt that doctors will make only 80k a year.
Click to expand...

No I think he meant a reduction of 70% in salary was equal to 80K. Which would make the original salary only 114K right? It's 5 am and I might be bad at math but that still seems like too low of a salary.
 
Diagnosis: Troll.
 
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Probably a gunner trying to scare people from applying. "Skool", come on now.
 
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jtimmer1 said:
Probably a gunner trying to scare people from applying. "Skool", come on now.
Click to expand...

There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY I am going to believe this. I cannot imagine someone who would actually do all of this hoping to weed out competition. Then again, I don't hang out with any premed kids at my university, so maybe they do exist?
 
jtimmer1 said:
Probably a gunner trying to scare people from applying. "Skool", come on now.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the "skool" spelling and quoting of Brett Michaels makes me quite confident that this is no attending. Please. There is also no way that anyone has "crunched the numbers" on a plan that has not yet made it through congress -- that would be a huge waste of time and I suggest no billing/accounting department would ever bother with this.

Thus far most physicians earn six digit salaries, and there is no real likelihood that it will ever drop below that mark in a ROAD specialty under any of the plans being circulated. Salaries are likely to decline, but probably not that far. One panel I attended suggested a 10% decline would be likely. Salaries are already lower than many people on SDN pre-allo seem to think and losing ground against inflation, expenses are going up much faster (tracking inflation), and educational loans tend to be much higher each year (exceeding inflation), so the real takehome these days is significantly less than a few decades back -- It's pretty much accepted that you will not do as well in medicine as your parent, uncle, neighbor etc. did. You need to have your eyes open -- if you are simply looking for a big paycheck, medicine is a silly path.
 
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Law2Doc said:
Yeah, the "skool" spelling and quoting of Brett Michaels makes me quite confident that this is no attending. Please. There is also no way that anyone has "crunched the numbers" on a plan that has not yet made it through congress -- that would be a huge waste of time and I suggest no billing/accounting department would ever bother with this.

Thus far most physicians earn six digit salaries, and there is no real likelihood that it will ever drop below that mark in a ROAD specialty under any of the plans being circulated. Salaries are likely to decline, but probably not that far. One panel I attended suggested a 10% decline would be likely. Salaries are already lower than many people on SDN pre-allo seem to think and losing ground against inflation, expenses are going up much faster (tracking inflation), and educational loans tend to be much higher each year (exceeding inflation), so the real takehome these days is significantly less than a few decades back -- It's pretty much accepted that you will not do as well in medicine as your parent, uncle, neighbor etc. did. You need to have your eyes open -- if you are simply looking for a big paycheck, medicine is a silly path.
Click to expand...
I agree, and if this were to happen I think there would be a lot more buzz around this issue then there already is.
 
Is it just me, or is there an increasing amount of anti healthcare reform astroturfing on these forums lately?

If this person is actually an attending (and I doubt he is) he entered medicine for all of the wrong reasons.

And if what he says about older physicians retiring is true, this is an exciting time to be a young physician or medical student. Some of those plum positions will be open to a new and motivated generation of physicians.
 
hahaha, i can't take someone seriously if they spell school "skool"
 
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... it's also suspiciously interesting how the user only has a history of 3 posts (the three posted here). this means that he went through the hassle of creating a new account, sit down and write the long post.... all for what? altruism?

possibly. but it's still suspicious.

btw, 70% reduction to 80k gives 80k/0.3 = ~267k initial salary (also possible, i suppose, if the alleged OP is in private practice.

more than likely, this is a troll. so: :troll:
 
i love the detective work that goes on around here
 
It's a troll. This thread should be closed.
 
appleanesthesia said:
I am an anesthesiologist 1 year out of residency. I'm a DO, not MD - but I did do an MD anesthesiology residency.

First, let me say that being a DO has not made one iota of a difference in salary, respect, or patient care despite what many pre-meds think. I was worried when I chose to go DO, but I have yet to have a patient say "what's a DO?, etc." None of my colleagues, surgeons, nurses, patients give two sh*ts about the letters behind my name. So, if you are (fooslishly) thinking about medicine, definitely consider DO skool as well as MD skool.

Second, get out while you can! Medicine is fundamentally changing and until the gov't pays for your entire medical training like in Europe, etc., finishing medicine and residency 8 years from now will leave you with big debt and little income - something like an upside-down mortgage. You guys have no idea what you're getting into and just hope for the best because you are admirably very idealistic - I was too I admit. But I rationalized it out and stuck with it. This time however - it really is different.

After "Medicare for all" passes, I expect my salary will go down 40-70% i.e. about $80k. Our anesthesia group with 50+ docs have already crunched the numbers with our billing dept. Fortunately I don't have any skool loans, but I know of other recent grads like me with $3000 / mo loan payments! Ouch! Medicare rates simply aren't enough to cover rent, electricity, employees, etc without working even more than doctors already do.

And you have no idea how crappy it is to get paged at 4AM after you've just laid down your head at midnight after working 17 hours with a couple of breaks here/there. When this page occurs your heart races, you wake up disoriented, and you have to force open your burning eyes. Sometimes, you still have to keep on working starting again at 7AM the next day until 12-3PM! At this point, you start forgetting things - stethocope, pens, maybe even mislabeling drugs (hopefully you catch that one though). Can you imagine how busy we'll be when we have even more patients since after health reform passes, everyone will have insurance that pays next to nothing!

Many of my colleagues, especially the older ones, already have firm plans in place to stop practicing once this health care reform passes. You should too. You are actually really lucky people in that you haven't yet sacrificed your 20's-30's studying/on call/going into debt for an honorable profession that is financially non-sensical.

It's not too late to turn back now, and I'm not disgruntled - just saying it as I see it - and I'm right smack in the middle of it. I come from a long family line of physicians - and I'll be the first to tell my son to really reconsider medicine if he wants to do it.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your post. I really appreciate the heads up - not really sure what the heck I was thinking. I've withdrawn my acceptances. I'm so glad it wasn't too late.
 
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Physicians may not forever be the local millionaires but they will never be hurting for money either. This is simply unrealistic. Such a highly trained expert on a matter that is essential will always be in demand, plain and simple. If Dr.'s ever earned as much as highly paid high school teachers physicians would go on strike.

Docs will always earn significantly more because people simply cannot be without them. Will docs in their 30's earn 1.1 million? Probably not anymore, but I will GUARANTEE it will forever be a 6 figure profession.
 
If this thread in any way dissuades you from the medical career, please pay very close attention to it. Get out of the medical field, and don't let medical schools waste a slot on you.
 
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just withdrew my amcas. thanks a lot bro, you don't know how much you've saved me. time to start applying to MBA programs--you guys should follow suit while our economy is still booming!
 
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i think everyone should take money into consideration though. i watched my parents struggle with finances (they had me early in med school) and medicine isn't always lucrative.

i know we all want to go into medicine for the "right" reasons and all, but some of y'all are gonna bitch about your lives as physicians and its not really worth it to put that burden on your spouses, kids, patients, and their families. just saying though :)
 
First thing Monday morning, Im going to tell my Dean of Admission where he can REALLY stick my acceptance letter.

(In my student mail box on the 3rd floor of Volker Hall)
 
DocDrakeRamoray said:
I'm withdrawing my application ..................not!!! :laugh:
Click to expand...

borat-high-five.jpg
 
Yes, get out. It's really nice outside right now, and it'd be a shame to miss it. I just got out earlier today.
 
ROAD TO HAPPINESS BAYBAY: R.O.A.D. = Radiation Oncology, Anesthaesthia (pain medicine), and Dermatology.....now go and compete dawgs...survival of da fittest
 
I find it hardly improbable that this will happen. For hundreds of years in the US a doctor has been a prominent and lucrative position in American Society, do you people honestly think it will fall off the face of the world out of nowhere down to 80k for a specialist?

Its this Obama guy who preaches about saving the economy this, and helping people that, yet hes bringing in 4+million last year as a successful politician/lawyer, which in my opinion is squeezing the quarter till the eagle screams for an average lawyer salary.
 
Transformers said:
ROAD TO HAPPINESS BAYBAY: R.O.A.D. = Radiation Oncology, Anesthaesthia (pain medicine), and Dermatology.....now go and compete dawgs...survival of da fittest
Click to expand...

Um no. ROAD stands for Radiology, Ophthalmology, Anesthesia and Derm. Rad Onc is a relatively new offshoot (used to be part of rads) and so it never made it into that much older acronym.
 
Its 2009...RADS and OPTH have reached 2nd tier playboi status
 
appleanesthesia said:
I am an anesthesiologist 1 year out of residency. I'm a DO, not MD - but I did do an MD anesthesiology residency.

First, let me say that being a DO has not made one iota of a difference in salary, respect, or patient care despite what many pre-meds think. I was worried when I chose to go DO, but I have yet to have a patient say "what's a DO?, etc." None of my colleagues, surgeons, nurses, patients give two sh*ts about the letters behind my name. So, if you are (fooslishly) thinking about medicine, definitely consider DO skool as well as MD skool.

Second, get out while you can! Medicine is fundamentally changing and until the gov't pays for your entire medical training like in Europe, etc., finishing medicine and residency 8 years from now will leave you with big debt and little income - something like an upside-down mortgage. You guys have no idea what you're getting into and just hope for the best because you are admirably very idealistic - I was too I admit. But I rationalized it out and stuck with it. This time however - it really is different.

After "Medicare for all" passes, I expect my salary will go down 40-70% i.e. about $80k. Our anesthesia group with 50+ docs have already crunched the numbers with our billing dept. Fortunately I don't have any skool loans, but I know of other recent grads like me with $3000 / mo loan payments! Ouch! Medicare rates simply aren't enough to cover rent, electricity, employees, etc without working even more than doctors already do.

And you have no idea how crappy it is to get paged at 4AM after you've just laid down your head at midnight after working 17 hours with a couple of breaks here/there. When this page occurs your heart races, you wake up disoriented, and you have to force open your burning eyes. Sometimes, you still have to keep on working starting again at 7AM the next day until 12-3PM! At this point, you start forgetting things - stethocope, pens, maybe even mislabeling drugs (hopefully you catch that one though). Can you imagine how busy we'll be when we have even more patients since after health reform passes, everyone will have insurance that pays next to nothing!

Many of my colleagues, especially the older ones, already have firm plans in place to stop practicing once this health care reform passes. You should too. You are actually really lucky people in that you haven't yet sacrificed your 20's-30's studying/on call/going into debt for an honorable profession that is financially non-sensical.

It's not too late to turn back now, and I'm not disgruntled - just saying it as I see it - and I'm right smack in the middle of it. I come from a long family line of physicians - and I'll be the first to tell my son to really reconsider medicine if he wants to do it.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

appreciate the info but it's really hard to dissuade people from a career they have wanted their whole lives and have worked so hard for. Besides, i don't speak for everyone of course but money is not the most important thing.
 
Law2Doc said:
-- It's pretty much accepted that you will not do as well in medicine as your parent, uncle, neighbor etc. did. You need to have your eyes open -- if you are simply looking for a big paycheck, medicine is a silly path.
Click to expand...

Great words of advice. After conversing with many physicians over the last few years, I've formulated the same outlook.

I'll be around 280k in debt. A salary of 80k before taxes would have me uneasy. I'm under the impression that someday I'll be able to live comfortably......and that's all I need.
 
nah he redefined the old acronym. you gotta make up new letters and **** or atleast re-order them.

ie
DORA the explorer
(derm onco-radiology?? anes.)
somethinglikethat, but better
 
witness23 said:
nah he redefined the old acronym. you gotta make up new letters and **** or atleast re-order them.

ie
DORA the explorer
(derm onco-radiology?? anes.)
somethinglikethat, but better
Click to expand...
Haha now you have a bunch of SDNers sitting around trying to make DORA work. I admit, I tried for like 10 seconds.
 
The good news about socialism is that no one works very hard. I'm down for $80K per year if it means I'll have a French work schedule. i.e. 30 hours per week, paid vacations whenever I want, and 3 years off for paternity leave. Although it is a shame that my generation will get shafted with $300,000.00+ of debt without the salaries to pay it off. Oh well, hopefully our government will step in a take care of us.
 
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usermike8500 said:
The good news about socialism is that no one works very hard. I'm down for $80K per year if it means I'll have a French work schedule. i.e. 30 hours per week, paid vacations whenever I want, and 3 years off for paternity leave. Although it is a shame that my generation will get shafted with $300,000.00+ of debt without the salaries to pay it off. Oh well, hopefully our government will step in a take care of us.
Click to expand...

Haha, funny... Our government will step in all right...but it won't be to take care of us.
 
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usermike8500 said:
The good news about socialism is that no one works very hard. I'm down for $80K per year if it means I'll have a French work schedule. i.e. 30 hours per week, paid vacations whenever I want, and 3 years off for paternity leave. Although it is a shame that my generation will get shafted with $300,000.00+ of debt without the salaries to pay it off. Oh well, hopefully our government will step in a take care of us.
Click to expand...

I'd prefer 60 hour work weeks and 300k+ a year.
 
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usermike8500 said:
The good news about socialism is that no one works very hard. I'm down for $80K per year if it means I'll have a French work schedule. i.e. 30 hours per week, paid vacations whenever I want, and 3 years off for paternity leave. Although it is a shame that my generation will get shafted with $300,000.00+ of debt without the salaries to pay it off. Oh well, hopefully our government will step in a take care of us.
Click to expand...

:laugh:
 
NoMoreAMCAS said:
I'd prefer 60 hour work weeks and 300k+ a year.
Click to expand...

I would too. Look the fact is, you can't go into medicine for the money but at the same time you can't say you don't care about money. It is what makes the world go 'round and with the large amount of debt we will accrue along with the years of training, we should be compensated. I obviously want to help people and I love learning and science, but I also expect to be able to drive a 5 series, live in a nice house and not have to worry about money for daily living expenses.
 
doxycycline said:
I would too. Look the fact is, you can't go into medicine for the money but at the same time you can't say you don't care about money. It is what makes the world go 'round and with the large amount of debt we will accrue along with the years of training, we should be compensated. I obviously want to help people and I love learning and science, but I also expect to be able to drive a 5 series, live in a nice house and not have to worry about money for daily living expenses.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I want to do what I presumably enjoy for a living, and be paid well for it.

If it came down to do what i enjoy, or be paid well. I'd go with being paid well. Luckily with the current health system, I don't have to make a choice. Hopefully that doesn't change.
 
I am extremely dismayed by the callous responses on this thread. Maybe the OP is a troll, maybe not. I have 4 physicians in my immediate family (as well as others in my extended family), who have all told me the exact same things as the OP. They told me not to go to med school for similar reasons, that it involved too much sacrifice and insufficient benefit as compared to other lucrative fields that still provided a high quality of life. (However, I was still interested in pursuing medicine as a career despite their reasoning.) Although I'm obviously not discouraging anyone from being a physician, I think it's wise for students to really consider what they are entering into - instead of rudely blowing off someone's (most likely) well-intentioned advice.
 
honestly....URVASI URVASI...TAKE IT EASY POLICY....thats the way to go...and that just had no contribution to this thread
 
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