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For the 20th time, I am merely responding to your post regarding your statement that grad school is a joke, in which I disagree - have you not realized this by now??
For the 20th time, I am merely responding to your post regarding your statement that grad school is a joke, in which I disagree - have you not realized this by now??
I wish I would have known about these places last year...I didn't apply to any of them. Although I'd be OOS for all of them anyways.
Are you a med student now or reapplying? If reapplying, perhaps you can gain some use from it yet.
Well, I found my graduate school science courses to be MUCH MORE conceptually difficult than my MD courses. My doctorate is in one of the hard physical sciences, and no med school course compared to those course I took in my graduate program. I also took a grad level course in biochemistry, and the med school biochem was not as difficult.
By the way what happened to that list of schools that do value grad work, was that latest addition of schools confirmed?
Most await further verification.By the way what happened to that list of schools that do value grad work, was that latest addition of schools confirmed?
Most await further verification.
List so far:
UNewMexico
UColorado three independent confirmations
UVirginia
EVMS
Georgetown (not sure how much it weighs in however, I was just told it does)
UMinnesota UCentral Florida
Arizona (initially screened only with uGPA, but then postbac and grad GPA considered).
UCalifornia-Irvine-adds an additional point to your "score"
UConn-includes gGPA in their GPA calculation
Albany-"includes all coursework"
Are you a med student now or reapplying? If reapplying, perhaps you can gain some use from it yet.
I have nothing further to contribute to this discussion either, except to object to the involuntary sex change to which I have apparently been subjected.fahimaz7 said:QQ above had a valid point when he said that everyone gets at least a 3.0 GPA in graduate classroom work, and that most of the students don't have to work very hard to do it.
Although I can't speak from experience, since I have never been to med school, I can say that one of my grad biochem professors (we had like 4 in 1 class) also taught the biochem class in med school to med students, and he had commented that our biochem class was harder than the version med students are taught. Which I guess goes with what you are saying.
Apples and oranges tbh. In undergrad you have 4 months to leisurely stroll through biochemistry and memorize about 10 different pathways. You don't have to apply the information, learn any real diseases, or understand any of it, as long as you can regurgitate glycolysis, gluconeogenesis, glycogenolysis, TCA, ETC, Ketogenesis, nucleic acid synthesis, etc.
In medical school, we learn all of this again, except this time we have to relate it to medicine, disease state, in-born metabolic disorders, storage diseases, etc.
If you ever wonder which one is more difficult, pick up First Aid for USMLE Step 1 and take a look in the biochemistry section. We had several biochemistry majors make B's and C's in our biochemistry module here at my medical school, which attests to it's difficulty and speed.
I would like to think that we are already friends, nothing wrong with a little healthy debate amongst future colleagues right?
No one is talking about undergrad biochem here.
Adding OOS matriculant rate ( %) as we all define "friendly" differently (hope you don't mind).
U of North Dakota - (30% not OOS friendly except for MN and WICHE), creates one total GPA with everything included
UNewMexico - (5.2%)
UColorado (25%) three independent confirmations
UVirginia - (40.6%)
EVMS - (39%)
Georgetown (98%) (not sure how much it weighs in however, I was just told it does) - Private
UMinnesota (21%)
UCentral Florida (24.4%)
Arizona (1.8% now but plans to take up to 25%))-initially screened only with uGPA, but then postbac and grad GPA considered.
UCalifornia-Irvine-(1%) adds an additional point to your "score" -
UConn-(17.6%) includes gGPA in their GPA calculation
Albany-(61%) "includes all coursework"
Arizona (1.8% now but plans to take up to 25%)
I read that in someone's SDN post awhile back. I don't know the planned timeframe for implementation.This list is getting more and more helpful- thanks for adding more info! Could you expand on the bolded? This is great news, but I haven't heard anything about it.
Ah..I read undergrad instead of grad biochem. Either way, I doubt that graduate school covers 3-4 inches of biochemistry notes in 3 weeks, which is what we do here in medical school. You'll see next year. The material isn't really "all that hard", but the speed at which we have to digest it and memorize it is very difficult. There's a reason that out of 200 kids in my class about 25 have a 4.0 after two years, and it's not because we're doing astrophysics or learning Chinese.
However, people have different styles and different perceptions of what is hard, personally, I was an electrical engineering major about 15 years ago and the hardest class I have ever taken was a class on electrodynamics. For me, I would find it easier to squeeze all of biochemistry into 3 weeks as opposed to sitting in that electrodynamics class for 4 months.
It's a different type of learning for sure. We have a lot of Ga Tech grads in my medical school class, and most of them had a rough first semester of medical school. They all agreed that they had to think differently, study differently, and they realized that they "couldn't just walk in and work the problem out." I guess in their engineering class, it was a lot more thinking and a lot less memorization, something that might take a while to get used to.
Either or, good luck with your cycle. Are you accepted yet?
Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet. What about a physician assistant with a master's degree (MPAS)? Obviously the classes required to earn this degree and the work experience that comes along with it are highly applicable to the "medical/patient care experience" requirements all med. schools are looking for in their applicants.
Would their GPA might be of more value than the GPA of other graduate degrees? It seems intuitive to me that performance in those courses would serve as a more accurate predictor of success in medical school than how someone did in gen. chem/bio/etc. Maybe not...
Just a thought.
Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet. What about a physician assistant with a master's degree (MPAS)? Obviously the classes required to earn this degree and the work experience that comes along with it are highly applicable to the "medical/patient care experience" requirements all med. schools are looking for in their applicants.
Would their GPA might be of more value than the GPA of other graduate degrees? It seems intuitive to me that performance in those courses would serve as a more accurate predictor of success in medical school than how someone did in gen. chem/bio/etc. Maybe not...
Just a thought.
...it is to my knowledge probably the closest one can come to being one as far as clinical knowledge, skills, and responsibility are concerned. I'm in my 2nd year...
I think it all depends on the grad program, and that's why med schools typically don't weigh the grad grades that heavily. To do that, they need to distinguish between a 1-2 year MA in philosophy student and a doctoral student in a hard science. It's just not the same thing and every program is different.
In my doctoral program, here are the rules:
-Everyone gets a B. EVERYONE. Unless....
You want an A. Ok, then you need to 98% or higher on each exam. Not kidding.
If you get below a 50%, you get a C and hence fail the course. Our courses are difficult so you have to get a couple of C's before they put you on probation.
That's just how it is. On our first day in the program, the professor (now my research advisor) came in and said, "Just try not to get a C. If you try to shoot for an A, you will fail. I have not given an A in this class for over 5 years. My advice is to dedicate your efforts to your research; that is why you are here, not for coursework." We lost 50% of our class the first year because the coursework was so difficult. I pulled off ONE A in my course work and was happy to do so! I got A's in my research rotations, which is what my program wants to see. That said, I will have my advisor explain this in his LOR.
I think it's a lot harder for Adcoms to distinguish how each grad program works. The material covered in pre-reqs for med school tends to be fairly uniform, so it's easier for adcoms to judge between candidates.
Pons Asinorum -
1. Selection bias? Provide to me a better example... otherwise I was simply stating a fact. Relax.
2. Thank you very much for the financial analysis. Loans? Debt? You mean I actually have to pay for school? That hadn't occurred to me whatsoever. That changes everything...
I was just wondering if my degree might be of interest to an admissions committee because as I understand it, there are not too many midlevels applying to medical school. It would be nice if it did but I remain doubtful. Just wanted to see if anyone else had any input.
UNewMexico
UColorado three independent confirmations
UVirginia
EVMS
Georgetown (not sure how much it weighs in however, I was just told it does)
UMinnesota UCentral Florida
Arizona (initially screened only with uGPA, but then postbac and grad GPA considered).
UCalifornia-Irvine-adds an additional point to your "score"
UConn-includes gGPA in their GPA calculation
Albany-"includes all coursework"
VCU - Post-bacc, Masters or Ph.D., GPA>3.5 expected
http://www.medschool.vcu.edu/admissions/md/faq.html
Statement below taken from VCU website
I did not do well during my undergraduate college years. How can I prepare for medical school?
Generally, a student whose undergraduate education resulted in a non-competitive GPA will need to do a graduate program in the sciences. There are a number of ways to do this, either through a post-baccalaureate program, Masters or Ph.D. Our admissions committee expects applicants to perform well academically in these programs (GPA>3.5) for favorable admission decisions.
Hopefully, the myth-busting will continue.Hold the line brave soldiers. Do not let up. KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE!
Hopefully, the myth-busting will continue.
UNewMexico
UColorado three independent confirmations
UVirginia
EVMS
Georgetown (not sure how much it weighs in however, I was just told it does)
UMinnesota UCentral Florida
Arizona (initially screened only with uGPA, but then postbac and grad GPA considered).
UCalifornia-Irvine-adds an additional point to your "score"
UConn-includes gGPA in their GPA calculation
Albany-"includes all coursework"
VCU - Post-bacc, Masters or Ph.D., GPA>3.5 expected
As others have pointed out, a graduate degree will not change or affect your uGPA. There is a separate section on the AMCAS for it but as others stated, it really will only show that you have some life experiences and were able to do slightly harder more intellectual work at the graduate level.
Depending on what your uGPA and sGPA are, if they are only a little less competitive, I know friends who did a M.S. and M.P.H program who are now in M.D. programs. Basically, they told me that the adcoms took an interest in their graduate programs, b/c it was highly related to medicine as unique experiences which made them stand out from the vast majority of applicants who do not have that experience.
Also, the people I know in med school told me that more and more med schools are accepting older non-trad applicants (late 20s and early to mid 30s) that have graduate degrees and/or other work experience more than they were 10-20 years ago b/c a lot of medical schools are looking for applicants that stand out with more life experience then students right out of college with no experience and super high stats. I mean, I'm not talking top 15 or top 20 schools here but at least mid-level M.D. programs with some good reputations.
Thanks for the heads up!
Do you know of any other schools that do this by chance?
so, do they matter?
Can a person with a 3.0 in grad school get in to a MD program? Would the adcoms just look at it as a unique experience that can help him/her in medical school?