Allopathic & Osteopathic poll : Where are you applying?

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Where are you applying?

  • I am applying to both allopathic and osteopathic schools.

    Votes: 156 37.3%
  • I’m only applying to allopathic medical schools. I never considered osteopathic schools.

    Votes: 194 46.4%
  • I considered applying to osteopathic schools, but . . . [post your reasons.]

    Votes: 62 14.8%
  • Allopathic & osteopathic? What the heck are you talking about?

    Votes: 6 1.4%

  • Total voters
    418
Exactly... which is why your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. Because if you believe what you just wrote here, than the guy with a 208 from Harvard should be p*ssed on by a guy from Ross with a 250. And don't tell me people from Ross haven't scored that high... with the thousands of students they've graduated, I can almost guarantee multiple people have hit those types of numbers. Ditto, and probably more so, for DO.

Yeah but on average US allo scores higher so on average I'm going to respect them more, okay? Stop picking on outliers.

Oh and it's not an argument, its just you slowly coming to see the truth that I speak.

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I think you are biased because you are a D.O.

When it comes down to it US Allo MD's have the easiest time getting competitive specialties.

Yay for us.

Then you must really look down your nose at your "colleagues," that are training at the same residency programs that are comprised mostly of IMGs and DOs; they must be half-******ed or something, right?:rolleyes:
 
Yeah but on average US allo scores higher so on average I'm going to respect them more, okay? Stop picking on outliers.

Oh and it's not an argument, its just you slowly coming to see the truth that I speak.

Who cares about averages if you are discussing how you treat individuals? This statement is so flawed and illogical, I won't even being to touch it.
 
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Then you must really look down your nose at your "colleagues," that are training at the same residency programs that are comprised mostly of IMGs and DOs; they must be half-******ed or something, right?:rolleyes:

They clearly didn't fulfill their full potential.
 
Who cares about averages if you are discussing how you treat individuals? This statement is so flawed and illogical, I won't even being to touch it.

I guess you have acknowledged the futility of arguing against the truth.
 
I guess you have acknowledged the futility of arguing against the truth.

Quote obviously you have. You said a person with 260 deserves more respect. Obviously, you are referring to an individual, not an "average,." Last time I checked, an average US allo grad does not score a 260 on Step 1.

What's your thoughts on URMs? Howard has lower averages for MCAT and GPAs than most DO schools. Same for Meharry and Morehouse. Are these US MD's smarter or more qualified, deserving of your respect, more so than DOs?
 
And for the record, I haven't acknowledged the futility of arguing against the truth, only the futility of arguing against the ignorant.

I refuse to have a battle of the wits with the unarmed.
 
Quote obviously you have. You said a person with 260 deserves more respect. Obviously, you are referring to an individual, not an "average,." Last time I checked, an average US allo grad does not score a 260 on Step 1.

What's your thoughts on URMs? Howard has lower averages for MCAT and GPAs than most DO schools. Same for Meharry and Morehouse. Are these US MD's smarter or more qualified, deserving of your respect, more so than DOs?

By your logic if one chimp scores higher on a intelligence test than one person then chimps and people are equal.

The average individual in DO school scored lower on the MCAT and will score lower on the USMLE than the average individual in MD school. Do you deny this fact?

Don't get me started on URMs, thats for another thread.
 
By your logic if one chimp scores higher on a intelligence test than one person then chimps and people are equal.

The average individual in DO school scored lower on the MCAT and will score lower on the USMLE than the average individual in MD school. Do you deny this fact?

Don't get me started on URMs, thats for another thread.

Don't engage this one. He's just being a jerk. And talking nonsense. This guy doesn't represent the views of any reasonable person.

Not to mention that he's not telling the truth.



bth
 
By your logic if one chimp scores higher on a intelligence test than one person then chimps and people are equal.

You seem to have comprehension issues; that's not in favor of my argument at all. My argument would say if one chimp scores higher than one human, THAT chimp is more intelligent than THAT human. I am not lumping people, or chimps, into large groups like you are.

The average individual in DO school scored lower on the MCAT and will score lower on the USMLE than the average individual in MD school. Do you deny this fact?

Not at all. I simply fail to see how one could judge a colleague based on the average. If Step 1 scores, or standardized scoring is that important to you in general, you should respect your DO colleagues that have a higher Step 1 score than MD colleagues with lower ones. Who cares what the average is?

Don't get me started on URMs, thats for another thread.

Don't puss out; what do you say about it? How do you know if your US MD black colleagues were a 3.9/34 before med school or a 2.9/27? How do you know if you should give them your oh-so-valuable respect or not? Or maybe you don't respect any of them, because after all, on average, they score lower on their MCAT and have lower GPAs. So they really shouldn't be MDs, maybe at best IMGs or even lowly DOs. Right?
 
I think you are biased because you are a D.O.

When it comes down to it US Allo MD's have the easiest time getting competitive specialties.

Yay for us.

I already got my competitive residency spot.

And my competitive research project.

And I'm a fairly typical DO student, not an outlier.

Yay for me.
 
I already got my competitive residency spot.

And my competitive research project.

And I'm a fairly typical DO student, not an outlier.

Yay for me.

:thumbup:
 

33.33% of SDN's applying to osteopathic . . . and that's polling the "pre-allopathic" forum. Good response I'd say.

bth7
 
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I'm applying to both. The bottom line for me is that I want to be a doctor.

Period.
 
I'm applying to both. The bottom line for me is that I want to be a doctor.

Period.


It looks like 50% are either applying to both allopathic and osteopathic, or at least considering it. And 50% are going only allopathic. I'm surprised. I thought this forum would have been much higher for the only allopathic. Cool.


bth7
 
I'm applying to both. I have to be honest, that I would almost rather go into a M.D. school simply because I want to specialize. From what I've gathered on SDN, it seams it might be a bit more difficult to specialize as a D.O. However, my approach to medicine is definitely more of a D.O. approach in that I value preventative and holistic treatment. Regardless of which route I take, I will probablly practice the same. I don't really care what other people think of my degree, as long as I can become a good doctor.
 
I'm applying to both. I have to be honest, that I would almost rather go into a M.D. school simply because I want to specialize. From what I've gathered on SDN, it seams it might be a bit more difficult to specialize as a D.O. However, my approach to medicine is definitely more of a D.O. approach in that I value preventative and holistic treatment. Regardless of which route I take, I will probablly practice the same. I don't really care what other people think of my degree, as long as I can become a good doctor.

Yeah, this kind of info often gets spread around on SDN. Unfortunately for everyone who believes it, it's not true. DO's have increasing access to all MD specialty programs. And, DO's have there own specialty residencies in all the usual things . . . surgery, anesthesia, optho, derm, rads, etc.

DO's and MD's Specialist Training


bth7
 
I'm applying to both. I have to be honest, that I would almost rather go into a M.D. school simply because I want to specialize. From what I've gathered on SDN, it seams it might be a bit more difficult to specialize as a D.O. However, my approach to medicine is definitely more of a D.O. approach in that I value preventative and holistic treatment. Regardless of which route I take, I will probablly practice the same. I don't really care what other people think of my degree, as long as I can become a good doctor.

Make sure you specify that you mean a US MD.... because a DO has a much, much greater chance at competitive residencies (derm, rads, ophtho, ENT, etc.) than a Caribbean MD or FMG has.
 
Yeah, this kind of info often gets spread around on SDN. Unfortunately for everyone who believes it, it's not true. DO's have increasing access to all MD specialty programs. And, DO's have there own specialty residencies in all the usual things . . . surgery, anesthesia, optho, derm, rads, etc.

DO's and MD's Specialist Training


bth7

That's quite a statistic.... 25% of 2007 residency matches went to non-citizen FMGs. Quite a lot.
 
Make sure you specify that you mean a US MD.... because a DO has a much, much greater chance at competitive residencies (derm, rads, ophtho, ENT, etc.) than a Caribbean MD or FMG has.

Definitely US M.D. I don't think I would consider a Caribbean MD simply because I'm not sure on the quality of training. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be at the beach for all four years of med school, but I don't think these schools have the quality of education. From what I understand, they are all for-profit schools.
 
That's quite a statistic.... 25% of 2007 residency matches went to non-citizen FMGs. Quite a lot.


It's amazing! Right? I feel like this is some big secret of US medical education that no one talks about. We basically "outsource" 1/3 of US medical education to non-US schools.

When people talk all this trash about DO schools, I just laugh. They don't see the big picture of US MD, US DO, and IMGs. Its a crazy system we've got here, but anyone can rise within the system and find their place, depending on their talents.

The first two years of med school are mostly just prep for Step 1. (Which is the same for everyone). And then you arrive at a hospital 3rd year to find yourself working on a team with US MDs, DOs and IMG together, and there's no problem.

Funny. One's perspective on this is so different as a pre-med.

bth

bth
 
Definitely US M.D. I don't think I would consider a Caribbean MD simply because I'm not sure on the quality of training. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be at the beach for all four years of med school, but I don't think these schools have the quality of education. From what I understand, they are all for-profit schools.

You actually only spend 18 months in the Caribbean; 99% of Caribbean schools have affiliations with US hospitals, so you do your clinicals for hte last 2 years here.
 
... DO's aren't regarded as highly where I am from (Reason #1)
... There are 4-5 allo schools within a 6 hr driving distance, where there are 0 DO schools (this is probably partial explanation for reason #1)
 
MWillie, you seem to think that test scores equate to ability as a physician. I think it's natural for a person to hope that this is true, but life experiences tell me different. I know dozens of brilliant people who accomplish almost nothing. They have no motivation or passion. I suspect the same is true in every profession including medical fields. We all know many examples of great accomplishment without having scored well in tests. Can you say Bill Gates?

I don't know exactly what makes a great doctor and who's qualified to determine this, but most patients will prefer one with a good bed-side manner, over a brilliant snob. I also suspect that the attributes that count the most are passion, compassion, determination and dedication. Intelligence should be above average, but ability to perform on tests probably has little if any correlation to doctors that are satisfying their patients. Denigrating a group of physicians because of the group's average test scores, shows a serious lack of understanding, not to mention civility.
 
MWillie, you seem to think that test scores equate to ability as a physician. I think it's natural for a person to hope that this is true, but life experiences tell me different. I know dozens of brilliant people who accomplish almost nothing. They have no motivation or passion. I suspect the same is true in every profession including medical fields. We all know many examples of great accomplishment without having scored well in tests. Can you say Bill Gates?

Not to take away from the main argument here, but how do we know Bill Gates isn't a good test taker, or scholastically gifted? He did get into Harvard, after all. I doubt he had bad grades or bombed the SAT.

EDIT* Just did a little research, Bill Gates claimed to have gotten a 1590 on the SAT (back when it was out of 1600). Not too shabby.
 
I considered applying to osteopathic schools, but . . . [post your reasons.]
I've heard that residency programs are (unfairly) biased towards MDs. Plus, I think I can probably get into an MD program, so why not try!
 
Following the recent discussion in another thread, I thought this poll would be interesting.

Let's try our best to keep this discussion civil. I know it can be done. (Don't fan a flame, just let it burn out.)



Original Thread: What is allopathic medicine?

I've been very quiet on this whole issue of comparing allopathic and osteopathic docs. In reality, I've been in contact of very good DOs and MDs. However, after reading all that you have posted here, bth -- most of which is thorougly researched (which I applaud you for) -- it seems like you're on a one-man crusade to recruit pre-meds for osteopathic medicine (as almost a justification for you becoming a DO). I can't see any other reason why you put this much time and effort into persuading people; although I might be incorrect in your intention.

As sort of count-point for those who aren't exactly sure what osteopathic medicine is, I want to explain to you (and bth) why I only applied to just allopathic schools.

1) I do want to go into a speciality. Osteopathic medicine has traditionally been a primary care profession, although it appears that this is radically changing according to bth. And that's great, however, a majority of the curriculum circles around primary care and pushing its physicians in that direction.

2) Although students are the ultimate deciders on what kind of board scores they make, it has been consistently shown that allopathic students do much better on the USMLEs. Now this isn't a knock on osteopathic schools. This is just a comparison between two curriculums which focus on different things. Because of osteopathic schools' approach to medicine, there is less emphasis put individual parts of the human body and more on the human body as a whole. I am a reductionist more than a holist when it comes to medicine.

3) (AND MOST IMPORTANT) I have yet to find any research that supports manipulative medicine. I believe there might be some good that comes out of OMM/OMT, but I have yet to see concrete, repeatable evidence that coincides with the fact that manipulative medicine even works, let alone is better than allopathic medicine. Frankly, it's for this very same "lack of supportive research" that I don't believe in chiropractic medicine at all.

Now before I get it from all angles, let me state that I believe that beyond the manipulative portions of osteopathic medicine, the DOs who get passing USMLE scores and don't practice OMM/OMT (which many I understand do not) are just as good as MDs who pass the USMLE. However, why would you go learn something that has no scientific basis for it? And if you wouldn't, why not just apply to MD schools that don't teach science that hasn't been proven?
 
Oh and I have done research on osteopathic medicine as well:

This article was actually done by DOs:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/458608_1

And here's a quote from the abstract:

Conclusions: "…It remains unclear whether the benefits of osteopathic manipulative treatment can be attributed to the manipulative techniques themselves or whether they are related to other aspects of osteopathic manipulative treatment, such as range of motion activities or time spent interacting with patients, which may represent placebo effects."

I'm still looking for research that directly compares osteopathic and allopathic practices and results...


This next article coincides with my reason that most osteopathic schools push for primary care physicians [interestingly the main results do state the members of osteopathic community are more "intuned" with their patients (holistic) compared with the allopathic docs (reductionists)]:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1496864

Main Results: Primary care physicians composed a larger fraction of the faculty in osteopathic schools than in allopathic schools. Members of the osteopathic community were significantly more likely than their allopathic peers to describe themselves as socioemotionally oriented rather than technoscientifically oriented.

Conclusions: In comparison with allopathic schools, the cultural practices and educational structures in osteopathic medical schools better support the production of primary care physicians.
 
P.S. bth, I wish I could grow a beard like that...
 
... DO's aren't regarded as highly where I am from (Reason #1)
... There are 4-5 allo schools within a 6 hr driving distance, where there are 0 DO schools (this is probably partial explanation for reason #1)

I dont travel into the pre-allo forum too often, but I stumbled upon the most ironic statement ever. This poor poster must have been unaware that her/his current university is trying to start a DO school.

"The William Carey University College of Osteopathic Medicine (WCUCOM), located in Hattiesburg, MS, issued an announcement on 7/13/07 that it is seeking a qualified individual to serve as Dean and Chief Academic Officer of the WCUCOM. He or she will report directly to the President on vision, strategic planning, and oversight of education outcomes, faculty recruitment, contracting, development and retention, and will have the day to day responsibility for academic and operational matters. Interested individuals can contact the Selection Committee to the attention of WCUCOM President Tommy King at [email protected]."

http://blogs.do-online.org/dailyreport.php?itemid=2903
 
1) I do want to go into a speciality. Osteopathic medicine has traditionally been a primary care profession, although it appears that this is radically changing according to bth. And that's great, however, a majority of the curriculum circles around primary care and pushing its physicians in that direction.

I think this will open your eyes towards the DO = primary care thing.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings.../webextras/brief/sb_med_primarycare_brief.php

DMUCOM (DO school) produces less primary care residents than Harvard. It's not the only DO school that produces more specialists than MD schools, either, as you will notice.
 
1) I do want to go into a speciality. Osteopathic medicine has traditionally been a primary care profession, although it appears that this is radically changing according to bth. And that's great, however, a majority of the curriculum circles around primary care and pushing its physicians in that direction.

I think this will open your eyes towards the DO = primary care thing.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings.../webextras/brief/sb_med_primarycare_brief.php

DMUCOM (DO school) produces less primary care residents than Harvard. It's not the only DO school that produces more specialists than MD schools, either, as you will notice.

I don't even know how to respond to this. I'm not even sure what your point is when the rest of the data on your page supports that DOs are more primary care oriented. You've taken a school, which is highly irregular for DO schools, and extrapolated that to all DO schoools.

You produce one school that produces 1.2% more non-primary care doctors than Harvard (whoopee) and overlook that the top 5 schools for primary care are DO schools (9 of the top 14, as well). And on top of all of this "eye-opening", I never even stated that all DO schools are primary care "factories", they just traditionally produce more (which is a valid statement for both of our articles).
 
I don't even know how to respond to this. I'm not even sure what your point is when the rest of the data on your page supports that DOs are more primary care oriented. You've taken a school, which is highly irregular for DO schools, and extrapolated that to all DO schoools.

You produce one school that produces 1.2% more non-primary care doctors than Harvard (whoopee) and overlook that the top 5 schools for primary care are DO schools (9 of the top 14, as well). And on top of all of this "eye-opening", I never even stated that all DO schools are primary care "factories", they just traditionally produce more (which is a valid statement for both of our articles).

Out of the osteopathic schools in the list, 33% of them produce 50% or more specialists. There is a conspicuous absence of certain schools (KCUMB, CCOM, AZCOM) that, after looking at individual match lists from the past couple of years, seem to have comparable amounts of grads specializing (50%+) as NYCOM, PCOM, UMDNJ-SOM, etc. If those three produce 50%+ specialists (granted, an assumption at this point because the data is incomplete), that's only 56% of DO's going into primary care. Are you correct in saying, then, that more DO's go into primary care? Yes, you are. However, it's not a landslide for primary care over specialist, in which case it's more up to the student to determine if they have the numbers for specializing moreso than the school or degree.
 
I've been very quiet on this whole issue of comparing allopathic and osteopathic docs. In reality, I've been in contact of very good DOs and MDs. However, after reading all that you have posted here, bth -- most of which is thorougly researched (which I applaud you for) -- it seems like you're on a one-man crusade to recruit pre-meds for osteopathic medicine (as almost a justification for you becoming a DO). I can't see any other reason why you put this much time and effort into persuading people; although I might be incorrect in your intention.

My intention has to do with my experience. I remember very well how heinous was my experience applying to medical school. Specifically, I struggled a great deal to understand what this whole allopathic/osteopathic medicine thing was about. I'd never heard of the terms osteopathic and allopathic before applying.

In discussions on SDN, I saw a lot of conflicting information. People would say "DO's are second rate" Others response with "No they're not." People would say "DO's are all primary care docs." Others would say "No they're not." People would say "DO's get discriminated against by residency programs." Other would say "No, they don't." It was very confusing and disconcerting.

Now that I'm a third year medical student at a DO school, I haven't forgotten that experience, and I enjoy trying to do my little part to provide some reliable information to pre-meds out there. I try to be as non-biased as I can be. You want criticisms of osteopathic med - I'll be the first to provide you with some. You want criticism of the allopathic establishment - I can tell you what those are too.

I see so much misinformation here on SDN, people keep repeating the same misleading myths. So, I hope I can be one voice that counters that a little bit, but not with propaganda, with whatever real research there is. The following is are some good, well-articulated examples. I don't think beegeforty4 is trying to mislead anyone, I just think he might not have up-to-date info, probably because its very hard to find amidst all the questionable half-truths out there:


1) I do want to go into a speciality. Osteopathic medicine has traditionally been a primary care profession, although it appears that this is radically changing according to bth. And that's great, however, a majority of the curriculum circles around primary care and pushing its physicians in that direction.

Indeed, this has radically changed. And not according to me, according to the numbers of DOs that go into primary care fields. The second statement is really problematic. A curriculum that "circles around primary care" and "pushes physicians in that direction" ??? This is simply not the case. The curricula of DO schools are exactly the same as MD schools. We go through a systems-based approach - anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, pathology, and the specialties - medicine, surgery, ob/gyn, psych, etc. in more or less the exact same fashion as MD schools. Yeah, there are variations on this theme, as there are between MD-schools. But everyone is encouraged to pursue their area of greatest interest, there's no pushing anyone into any field - it just doesn't happen.


2) Although students are the ultimate deciders on what kind of board scores they make, it has been consistently shown that allopathic students do much better on the USMLEs. Now this isn't a knock on osteopathic schools. This is just a comparison between two curriculums which focus on different things. Because of osteopathic schools' approach to medicine, there is less emphasis put individual parts of the human body and more on the human body as a whole. I am a reductionist more than a holist when it comes to medicine.

This also is a bit problematic. As I've said before, the emphasis on "holistic medicine" is more of a slogan of osteopathic medicine than some major difference. (link) In fact, some people have actually done a survey on this and found that MD med school professors had no issue with the supposedly "holistic" osteopathic tenets, they just think of them as "good medicine" not necessarily "osteopathic" or "holistic" medicine.(link) The difference is subtle - one of emphasis and philosophy or style, less actual practice.(link)

Also, as far as board scores do, osteopathic students often take USMLE as an afterthought, since they are more focused on passing their required board exam, the COMLEX.(link p.80)

3) (AND MOST IMPORTANT) I have yet to find any research that supports manipulative medicine. I believe there might be some good that comes out of OMM/OMT, but I have yet to see concrete, repeatable evidence that coincides with the fact that manipulative medicine even works, let alone is better than allopathic medicine.

This one is easy, as someone has already done the work for me. Harvard med school faculty reviewed website on OMM. (link)
However, I think its worth pointing out that as an NYU school of medicine makes clear, it is difficult to do research on this stuff in the same way as say, a drug. (link)

Allow me to elaborate on this last point. Manual therapy is hard to test. A good example is something like physical therapy. Patients with injuries often get prescribed physical therapy. There's a lot of research showing that PT is helpful, but its very difficult to assess what the most helpful practices are. Every PT is going to perform a technique differently, and every injury is different. It's not like something you can easily quantify, say, like hypertension medication. With blood pressure, we can do a large scale study that yields hard results. For example, "Drug X lowered systolic blood pressure an average of 25 points, which is 4 points more than Drug Y, and with fewer side effects." The results are very clear and very satisfying, Drug X is better.

Manual therapy is just not quantifiable in the same way, because it depends so heavily on how it is preformed, who is preforming it, and how you quantify results.

However, why would you go learn something that has no scientific basis for it? And if you wouldn't, why not just apply to MD schools that don't teach science that hasn't been proven?

There's many things in and out of medicine like this. Has anyone done a study investigating "Does massage make patients feel better?" Has anyone asked - "Why would a patient spend money on something like massage that has no proven scientific benefit?" Because its obvious, people like massage. It's relaxing and stress-relieving and probably promotes good health. I can't prove this, but do I need to?

At any med school, some time is devoted to non-evidence based medicine. Physicians usually get some training in bedside manner and being culturally sensitive, etc. It would be difficult to find a study asking "Does a physician with excellent bedside manner have a higher cure rate than a physician that just prescribes the correct medication?" Maybe such a study exists, but . . . is it really necessary?

We all know what its like to be seen by a friendly, professional doc versus a cold, personality-less physician that doesn't even talk to you. It's just obvious that bedside manner is important, even though maybe it hasn't been "proven" in some super-objective double-blinded clinical trial. Yet, every med school (MD & DO) teaches these values and many other practices of medicine that have "no scientific basis", its just part of getting a good medical education.

Medicine is not science. Medicine is the application of science plus humanism.

Suggested reading: Comparison of Allopathic and Osteopathic medicine

bth
Touro University, College of Medicine. California.
 
My intention has to do with my experience. I remember very well how heinous was my experience applying to medical school. Specifically, I struggled a great deal to understand what this whole allopathic/osteopathic medicine thing was about. I'd never heard of the terms osteopathic and allopathic before applying.

In discussions on SDN, I saw a lot of conflicting information. People would say "DO's are second rate" Others response with "No they're not." People would say "DO's are all primary care docs." Others would say "No they're not." People would say "DO's get discriminated against by residency programs." Other would say "No, they don't." It was very confusing and disconcerting.
Now that I'm a third year medical student at a DO school, I haven't forgotten that experience, and I enjoy trying to do my little part to provide some reliable information to pre-meds out there. I try to be as non-biased as I can be. You want criticisms of osteopathic med - I'll be the first to provide you with some. You want criticism of the allopathic establishment - I can tell you what those are too.

I see so much misinformation here on SDN, people keep repeating the same misleading myths. So, I hope I can be one voice that counters that a little bit, but not with propaganda, with whatever real research there is. The following is are some good examples, and very well-articulated. I don't think beegeforty4 is trying to mislead anyone, I just think he might not have up-to-date info, probably because its very hard to find amidst all the questionable half-truths out there:




Indeed, this has radically changed. And not according to me, according to the numbers of DOs that go into primary care fields. The second statement is really problematic. A curriculum that "circles around primary care" and "push physicians in that direction" ??? This is just not the case. The curriculum of DO schools is exactly the same as MD school. We go through a systems-based approach - anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, pathology, in more or less the exact same fashion as MD schools. Yeah, there are variations on this theme, as there are between MD-schools. But that's more or less med school in US at this point. There's no pushing anyone into any field.




This also is a bit problematic. As I've said before, the emphasis on "holistic medicine" is more of a slogan of osteopathic medicine than some major difference. (link) In fact, some people have actually done a survey on this and found that MD med school professors had no issue with the supposedly "holistic" osteopathic tenets, they just think of them as "medicine" not necessarily "osteopathic" or "holistic" medicine.(link) The difference is subtle - one of emphasis and philosophy or style, not actual practice.(link)

Also, as far as board scores do, osteopathic students often take USMLE as an afterthought, since they are more focused on passing their required board exam, the COMLEX.(link p.80)



This one is easy, as someone has already done the work for me. Harvard med school faculty reviewed website on OMM. (link)
However, I think its worth pointing out that as an NYU school of medicine makes clear, it is difficult to do research on this stuff in the same way as say, a drug. (link)

Allow me to elaborate on this last point. Manual therapy is hard to test. A good example is something like physical therapy. Patients with injuries often get prescribed physical therapy. There's a lot of research showing that PT is helpful. But its very difficult to assess what the most helpful practices are. Every PT is going to perform a technique differently, and every injury is different. It's not like something you can easily quantify, like hypertension. We can do a large study and get hard results like "Drug X lowered systolic blood pressure an average of 25 points, which is 4 points more than Drug Y, and with fewer side effects." The results are very clear and very satisfying, Drug X is better.

Manual therapy is just not quantifiable in the same way, because it depends so heavily on how it is preformed, who is preforming it, and how you quantify results.



There's many things in and out of medicine like this. Has anyone done a study investigating "Does massage make patients feel better?" Why would anyone spend money on something that has no proven scientific benefit? Because its obvious, people like massage. It's relaxing and stress-relieving and probably promotes good health. I can't prove this, but I'd say its probably true.

At any med school, some time is devoted to non-evidence based medicine. Physicians usually get some training in bedside manner and being culturally sensitive, etc. Has anyone done a study on "Does a physician with excellent bedside manner have a higher cure rate than a physician that just prescribes the correct medication?" Maybe they have, but . . . is it really necessary? We all know what its like to be seen by a friendly, professional doc versus a cold, personality-less physician that doesn't even talk to you. It's just obvious that bedside manner is important, even though maybe it hasn't been "proven" in some super-objective scientific study. Any (MD & DO) med school teaches these values and many other practices of medicine that have "no scientific basis", its just getting a good education.

Suggested reading: Comparison of Allopathic and Osteopathic medicine

bth
Touro University, College of Medicine. California.

Great rebuttal! Did you ever consider being a lawyer?
 
Great rebuttal! Did you ever consider being a lawyer?

I take that back...maybe you could be the first doctor-lawyer hybrid: Laying out justice during the day and saving the innocent by night.
 
I take that back...maybe you could be the first doctor-lawyer hybrid: Laying out justice during the day and saving the innocent by night.

Too late; my grandfather decided to go to law school after practicing as a doctor for some years. And he's old, so bth wouldn't be the first.

My gramps used to keep a Smith & Wesson revolver in an ankle strap, as well. Pretty badass, looking back.
 
I take that back...maybe you could be the first doctor-lawyer hybrid: Laying out justice during the day and saving the innocent by night.

Lawyers are blood suckers. Thanks, but no thanks. :laugh:
 
My gramps used to keep a Smith & Wesson revolver in an ankle strap, as well. Pretty badass, looking back.

Am scared of guns . . . so. That's out. :laugh:
 
bth, thanks for those linkies. Very informative:thumbup:

Allopathic / osteopathic demographics




400px-EnteringPhysiciansByEducation2005.PNG

U.S. physician entering the workforce in 2005, by education type.

bth
 

Allopathic / osteopathic demographics




400px-EnteringPhysiciansByEducation2005.PNG

U.S. physician entering the workforce in 2005, by education type.

bth

Holy ****.

Roughly a 13:2:1 ratio for USMD:USDO:USIMG. That's crazy that there are only twice as many DO's entering the field each year than US born IMG's. This means:

1) There are lots of US students who couldn't get into a DO school or;
2) There are lots of US students so afraid of the DO "stigma," that they will risk being considered an IMG before a DO

It's probably a fairly even distribution of both of those. Still, 5%:11% is a way closer ratio than I would have imagined.
 
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