Columbia Waitlist

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Does anybody know how many kids P&S takes in from the waitlist?
And is there anything I can really do in the meantime to better my chances of being taken in from the waitlist?

Thanks.
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there isnt much...

a letter of intent to pass your time.

if you are still attending school...extra LORs, updated transcripts etc...

but good luck nonetheless.
 
Rumors were they did took in 30-50 people a year. I think Columbia's strategy is not to accept too many people right away, and dig into the waitlist later on
 
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ok, it's obviously too early for waitlist speculation, but i'm just curious about this. i reserved my spot a couple days ago on the alternate list. i got a letter from frantz today saying i am officially an 'alternate', and that there is no way to predict my chances at this time. at the bottom, there is a short hand-written note from frantz saying he will keep me in mind, but it'll be a while before they accept anyone from the alternate list.

did everyone else get the same letter/note?
 
I got the same letter but no handwritten note:confused:

I'm too lazy to search last years threads to determine the significance of a handwritten note and whether it is a predictor of admission (or if the lack of one forshadows a rejection).
 
Thanks for the link Bonnie. For the obssesive-compulsive SDNers (what SDNer isnt OCD?) on the Columbia waiting list the following is from a post by someone who came off the waiting list last June:

"To those who compute the presence of hand written notes at the bottom of letters: for the record I never got a hand written comment. I did get replies to all except for my last two letters. I think in the end I sent 4 or 5 and called twice. He did mention how much he appreciates that people show interest in the school, and that the second interview was "most helpful."
 
I will help you guys since I was helped last year and the tradition must go on...
Ten not so simple steps to get off the Columbia waitlist and become part of the class of 2008.

1. For the record: once you are in the columbia alternate's list STATS DO NOT MATTER.

If you choose not to believe me, it is your call, but it worked for me last year, and if you are obsessed enough about Columbia and have done your past searching homework, you know who I am and what my whole story is.

2. Letters of interest are what distinguishes you in the pile of applications sitting in the office right now. Phone calls attach a person to a name.

That being said, look at the big picture. You are 1 in 350 right now and what you DO will make ALL of the difference. In many ways it is better to be on the waitlist because, as you will see, what will get you in is who you are, what you do and not a piece of paper that says your grades and extra curriculars.

3. NEVER lose hope.

4. Figure out where you want to go. Wait a couple more weeks, get all of your letters, think hard about where you want to live for the next four years, who you want to be your classmates, specific reasons why a certain school feels the way it does to you. Break it apart, find specifics. Search all websites, read everything that you can.

5. If that school is Columbia, and you know WHY it is Columbia. Write a letter to Dr. Frantz. Let him know. Let him see you through your letter, let him see what drives you and how bad you want it. Ask for an opportunity to meet him, if you haven't met him before. If you did interview with Dr. Frantz the first time around, call him and let him know to consider you for a spot (Dr. Frantz will not interview someone twice, but people who were interviewed by him got pulled out of the waitlist earlier if they called).

6. May is the key month for movement. So, hang in there because spots will open up here and there but most people will get offered places off the waitlist after May 15. The number varies every year, but be assured that there will be movement, there always is, make sure that it is you who gets the spot.

7. Rules of common sense apply. You do not want to seem desperate, psychotic, annoying, immature etc... Remember, we are still picking doctors here, your personality is the most important thing. At this point, the only thing that matters.

8. Do not slack off. But then again, if you are slacking off, you are probably not so interested, and therefore shouldn't be going through all of this work in the first place.

9. This is very important: do not chicken out! I know this is scary, going up to people that have so much power (ie Dr. Frantz) is really scary, having the pressure of the first impression is really scary but the rule of thumb is: YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE. This was my main driving force last year. Keep that always in mind and when in doubt remember: YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE.

10. Good luck! And when you get that second interview, come talk to me!

-IntlMD07
Columbia P&S Class of 2007

BTW: it was totally worth it!
 
thanks intlmd07...btw, when did you start doing all this stuff?
 
I sent the first letter post waitlist right away after I got the news. I second-interviewed on April 9 (if you wait too long they may not have spots). (Please be subtle about how you ask for a second interview, I don't think it is official and we don't want them to stop having them.) I wrote again after the interview. I called twice and got called back on May 30 (yes, super long wait). Dr. Frantz will usually reply letters, so you can use that to your advantage and space out communications to about once every 2-3 weeks. Don't wait too long to send a letter of interest, however if you are waiting on other schools to decide whether or not to send a letter of intent (i.e. "I will withdraw all applications if accepted") then you may want to hold off for another couple of weeks.
 
I sent the first letter post waitlist right away after I got the news. I second-interviewed on April 9 (if you wait too long they may not have spots). (Please be subtle about how you ask for a second interview, I don't think it is official and we don't want them to stop having them.) I wrote again after the interview. I called twice and got called back on May 30 (yes, super long wait). Dr. Frantz will usually reply letters, so you can use that to your advantage and space out communications to about once every 2-3 weeks. Don't wait too long to send a letter of interest, however if you are waiting on other schools to decide whether or not to send a letter of intent (i.e. "I will withdraw all applications if accepted") then you may want to hold off for another couple of weeks.
Click to expand...

I think you learn about OCD in your upcoming psychiatric medicine course. Getting help is not a sign of weakness.

Hope that Helps.

P 'DSMIV is my King James' ShankOut
 
does anybody know how good and/or much better your chances are if you get a second interview with dr. frantz?
 
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Originally posted by iris8782
does anybody know how good and/or much better your chances are if you get a second interview with dr. frantz?
Click to expand...

I guess my question, which is related to that, is, if spots are available, are all people granted a second interview (besides those who had a first interview with Dr. Frantz)? Or Dr. Frantz will decline second interview with certain people?
 
Have many of you fellow waitlisters gotten to speak with Dr. Frantz over the phone lately? It sounds like he's been busy lately, so I'm just hesitant about calling him at a bad time.

Also - I finally got the waitlist confirmation after more than a month. Mine had the same thing scribbled on the bottom that linus' did. It sounds pretty meaningless to me, so it doesn't seem like anything to worry about if you didn't get anything on yours.
 
wow, this is interesting. is dr. frantz the dean? does he interview everyone? so, to come off the waitlist, some people are re-invited? that is pretty unique.
 
i've found sdn really helpful this past week that i've been looking at it, so i thought i'd join...

i got my wait list confirm from columbia last week and at the bottom it said to call to schedule an appt with dr frantz...so i have an appt to see him later in the week. just thought i'd pass the info along
 
got my wait list confirm from columbia last week and at the bottom it said to call to schedule an appt with dr frantz...so i have an appt to see him later in the week. just thought i'd pass the info along

...Good news nycgal. It sounds like Dean Frantz is granting second interviews. Was the confirmation letter in response to your LOI and did you write a long letter? I'm trying to figure out what may have prompted Frantz to grant a second interview...
 
I wrote a long letter to Dr. Frantz after being waitlisted, and I had my "second interview" with him in mid-March. Judging from past years, I'm sure he'll grant many more interviews over the next couple months...

Good luck to everyone else who's waiting on Columba!
 
Originally posted by miragesea

...Good news nycgal. It sounds like Dean Frantz is granting second interviews. Was the confirmation letter in response to your LOI and did you write a long letter? I'm trying to figure out what may have prompted Frantz to grant a second interview...
Click to expand...

In my case, i sent a separate letter to Dr. Frantz asking for a second interview and expressing my continuted interest in the school
 
I think it's possible that Dr. Frantz honestly doesn't have anymore slots available for appointments. I sent a letter of continued interest, got the handwritten comment on the bottom, but there was no mention of a second meeting (even though I had mentioned that I'd be open to setting up an appointment with him). However, my letter and waitlist acknowledgement didn't get to the P&S office until the day of the deadline, so he could've filled up his schedule before he even read some of our letters.

Anyway, looking at past threads, many people who didn't ever interview with Dr. Frantz ended up gettin in. Just gotta wait. Good luck to all.
 
I sent in my waitlist letter, and then a letter of intent asking to meet with him; i got an alternate list confirmation letter today with a note at the bottom, but no mention of meeting again. I'd really like a second interview with Dean Frantz, but when I called they said no response had been made to my letter of intent yet, even though it had been read. *sigh* :( :( :( :(
 
Just to wanna point out something: Linus and NYCGal both indicated that they live in New York. Dr. Frantz may be free for a week or two before he gets busy, so he thought it would be possible to meet with people that live around. For others that need travel arrangements, he probably didn't wanna make the promise and force people to make reservation for flight/hotel with one week notice.

I'm not sure where Nike lives, but if he lives far from NYC, then it'll disprove what I just said.
 
I agree...he was very willing to schedule an appointment with me in part because it's easy for me to stop by anytime. For those of you outside NYC, he probably has set aside some time later for more interviews?
 
Originally posted by linus
I agree...he was very willing to schedule an appointment with me in part because it's easy for me to stop by anytime. For those of you outside NYC, he probably has set aside some time later for more interviews.
Click to expand...

Have you had your interview yet? Please tell us how it goes....
 
Originally posted by miragesea

...Good news nycgal. It sounds like Dean Frantz is granting second interviews. Was the confirmation letter in response to your LOI and did you write a long letter? I'm trying to figure out what may have prompted Frantz to grant a second interview...
Click to expand...


I wrote like a 1 page letter expressing my continued interest and saying I would come back for a second interview...i haven't had the interview yet. and don't know if this adds more confusion, but i'm not living in ny right now. hopefully, he'll get to all those of you trying real soon.
 
Originally posted by nycgal
I wrote like a 1 page letter expressing my continued interest and saying I would come back for a second interview...i haven't had the interview yet. and don't know if this adds more confusion, but i'm not living in ny right now. hopefully, he'll get to all those of you trying real soon.
Click to expand...

Good luck with your interview, please let us know how it goes...
 
Originally posted by miragesea
Have you had your interview yet? Please tell us how it goes....
Click to expand...

My interview was great...Dr. Frantz asked me pretty standard questions about my hobbies, my particular interests in medicine, other acceptances I had received, and my time abroad. Really relaxed and enjoyable.

He told me that only 3-4 people had withdrawn so far (that was mid-march), so it would be a while before he could accept anyone from the waitlist. He said to keep in touch and that he would have me in mind when the time came to select alternates. Not exactly the positive reinforcement I had hoped for, but overall a good experience.
 
Originally posted by linus
He said to keep in touch and that he would have me in mind when the time came to select alternates. Not exactly the positive reinforcement I had hoped for, but overall a good experience.
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That seems to be Dr. Frantz's standard way of saying "I'm still not sure if I should accept you yet"...:(
 
Originally posted by CalBeE
That seems to be Dr. Frantz's standard way of saying "I'm still not sure if I should accept you yet"...:(
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Maybe, but I wasn't exactly expecting an immediate acceptance...so what else could he say? I like to stay positive :)

Still, I know what you mean calbee...he gives that response to almost everyone, and it probably doesn't mean much.
 
Fellow P&S waitlist-ees--I have a question. I am sure you all have similar scenarios, but I think this would be a good way to voice opinions, etc.
So far my best result is a UVa acceptance, and I am waiting to hear back from Hopkins (not optimistic), and am on the Columbia waitlist. Before initial decisions went out, I sent a letter of intent to Frantz, and got no reply. A couple of weeks after the alternate letter came, I sent another letter, and called him today. I talked to Frantz himself, and I felt like he gave me the run-around (keep writing, call more towards May, when he has some idea of # of slots available). So, here is my dilemma. I liked UVa, I have UVa connections up the ass--my dad and sister went there, and I have visited the campus like 100 times and have loved it since I was a kid--and it is a good school, but Columbia is more up my alley in terms of getting me the residency I want. But, I hate waiting, and being dicked around like this, and my pride is getting in the way of being on the waitlist. Anyway, I'd like to know where I am headed next year before May or June, but I loved Columbia, and think it is the perfect school for me. Any thoughts on whether I should withdraw o rkeep plugging ( I would prefer not to have the bullsh*t, "If you really want it, you will do anything to get it" replies--this is real life, not an after-school-special).
p.s. If Hopkins gives the good word, this is all moot, of course.
 
Yes, Linus, I realize it is ultimately a personal decision, but I was hoping to get responses other than that. For instance, input from other people on their comparable situations and thought processes, to help me put things in perspective.
 
does anybody know how many were taken off the waitlist last year? and how many were placed on the waitlist last yr or this year? thanks.
 
benjo,

if i were you i'd stick with the waitlist. you only live once and you don't want to go to uva thinking "if only i had stayed on the columbia waitlist maybe..."

but then again, i've read before that columbia waitlists somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 people. frantz seems to know exactly the type of person that he wants and if you're not it, he'll give you the runaround as opposed to just saying something flat out. i mean, people on sdn have already been getting second interviews whereas he's telling others that "i'm totally booked." columbia probably gets a higher percentage of loi's from the waitlist than many comparably ranked schools because they are a) in nyc, b) traditionally interview more people so columbia might be the highest ranked school that many people interview at, c) app is separate from amcas so you have less people who apply just for kicks, and d) they tell you that loi's work.
 
Raincrew,
I think you are right. I was planning on sticking it out with Columbia until the bitter end, until I realized Frantz shut me down for a second interview for the moment, while he has been scheduling with other applicants. And, the sheer enormity of the Columbia waitlist is a huge deterrent. That being said, this process has been excruciating for me, and I am sick of being kicked around by places, so it is looking likely that I will withdrawal, or just stay on the waitlist with token effort. I love the school and it is a surgeon factory, but let's face it, the area is ****, and I am not guaranteed to be happy there. I know I love the town and the school at the top of my acceptance list right now, and UVa ain't bad, right? ANyway, that was what I was looking for--I appreciate the input.
Anyone else having a similar internal debate?
 
Originally posted by Benjo
Anyone else having a similar internal debate?
Click to expand...

I essentially feel most of what you feel. Currently I'm gonna goto UCLA unless I get off any waitlist. I'm an international student so I'll be paying Out-of-state tuition for all 4 years. If UC does raise the tuition by 40%, UCLA will cost more than a private school for me. I've been around UCLA for 4 years, know some important people in the hospital, but I can't help but wanna goto explore a different city.

I too am scared that I tried so hard to get into Columbia, and if I do really get in, I'll be disappointed. However, I think I'll hold on to the waitlist instead of withdrawing now, even though the chance is slim. I too was denied a second interview over the phone b/c Dr. Frantz was "busy with other stuff" (He said it with hesistation too when I was on the phone with him)...
 
I feel what everyone's saying on this thread. I too have gotten somewhat of a runaround by Dr. Frantz. I'm seriously exasperated at the differential treatment members of the waitlist have been getting. I mean, if one's chances aren't good, at least let them know already so they can withdraw and pursue other waitlists... it seems cold-hearted to straight up lie to some on the waitlist saying "I'm too busy to meet," while simultaneously humoring interviews with other applicants. I'm in a similar situation stuck between the Columbia and Duke waitlists. I'm fortunate enough to hold acceptances already, so I'm thinking about gathering my pride and moving on from P&S instead of blindly groveling like a robot. Or perhaps I'll stick to putting in merely "token effort," as Benjo said. Bah. :thumbdown:
 
Benjo - congrats on UVA. Good to hear about that.:horns:

I can sort of empathize with all you guys. I'm getting sick of being jerked around by Columbia and being afraid of trying too hard or hearing something unencouraging from Frantz. At the same time, I have no acceptances as of yet, so I have to keep at it with this silly game. The size of the list is pretty daunting, but I feel like a lot of people are going to become complacent with their other options and get tired of the waitlist b.s. and drama. So, for now, I'm just planning on sticking with it with the hopes that a lot of others will eventually get tired of the game playing and drop off the list. I should be hearing from Cleveland Clinic within the next two or so weeks. So, if by some chance I hear good news, I'll definitely let you all know if my perspectives on Columbia's list remain the same.

Good luck, guys.
 
not sure if this helps or not but i work up at columbia torturingly close to admissions and it seems like dean frantz has been interviewing only one person per day for the past few weeks. which means he'll probably end up doing 2nd interviews with under 30 or 40 people in total of the 300 on the list. so i wouldn't stress too much about not getting a 2nd interview. he probably honestly won't know how people many or who will be accepted until after may so it looks like we all just have to wait and hope for awhile.
 
i've read before that columbia waitlists somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 people.
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If that is true (and I suspect it is from seeing how many of us were waitlisted), wouldn't it essentially mean that Columbia is being so conservative as to allow for the possibility that all first round acceptees withdraw their acceptances to go elsewhere and that half the waitlist elects not to remain in the running? Or something to that effect..

Pretty unlikely considering how many people on the waitlist seem to have indicated that Columbia is their first choice. I can't imagine the waitlist winnows all that much over time. Therefore it seems that half the people on the waitlist haven't got a prayer of getting accepted. But of course this is all speculation.
 
i'm under the impression that frantz only takes people off the waitlist who are absolutely committed to going. so if you think about it, how many people are actually sending loi's out of the 300? 150? 100? who knows? i do think that if you have numbers which are around or above columbia's mean and (this may sound bad but he really does seem to favor kids from ivies) go to a top undergrad, you have a fair shot if you are willing to jump through all the hoops.
 
raincrew--at the risk of starting a point-counterpoint type discussion here, I will say this.
I am that type of candidate that you were talking about--stats all well above Columbia's averages, top Ivy league undergrad, pubs--and thta is one of the reasons I am so fed up with the situation. I hate being jerked around-maybe it's the chip on my shoulder, and I know I am gonna have to get used to being the low man on the todem pole, but still. Some of the other posters have alluded to Frantz' direct lying, and that pisses me off. After 6 months of this application ****, it is about time somebody started being honest and straightforward.
That all being said, I am gonna keep my name on the waitlist, with a letter every 3 or so weeks. Call me a sell-out, call me a rankings-*****, but it could be worth it, and I might regret it otherwise.
 
post deleted
 
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has anyone on the waitlist dared to inquire whether they might be able to attend second look weekend?? i remember a couple of posts about that possibility a while back but, admittedly, i'm too lazy to search at the moment. let me know. thanks.
 
Originally posted by medstylee
has anyone on the waitlist dared to inquire whether they might be able to attend second look weekend?? i remember a couple of posts about that possibility a while back but, admittedly, i'm too lazy to search at the moment. let me know. thanks.
Click to expand...

I asked Dr. Frantz if I could attend 2nd look and got shot down. He basically said things would get totally out of control if he allowed waitlisters to attend.

It can't hurt to ask though...maybe he just didn't want me to come :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by linus
I asked Dr. Frantz if I could attend 2nd look and got shot down. He basically said things would get totally out of control if he allowed waitlisters to attend.

It can't hurt to ask though...maybe he just didn't want me to come :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

It's probably a similar situation as the deal with Second interview. I guess what puzzles me is that Columbia doens't divide up the waitlist into tiers or tell applicants their relative rank on the list, when it almost seems like they already did so secretly.
 
Originally posted by CalBeE
I guess what puzzles me is that Columbia doens't divide up the waitlist into tiers or tell applicants their relative rank on the list, when it almost seems like they already did so secretly.
Click to expand...

yeah - i agree. don't they give each interviewee a number of I,II, or III or something like that after the interview? i thought i heard something like that. anyway, i might try and call tomorrow (if i can think of something meaningful to say in the meanwhile). i'll let you guys know what kind of response i get...
 
So I wanted to second the great advice you were given from IntlMD (who I suffered with on the Columbia waitlist last year!)

It is really early to be pestering about waitlist predictions now. The fact that you are getting second interviews already is great! Keep in mind, no school knows what their waitlist mov't looks like until May 15th. After that there will be a bunch of movement. It is very unlikely that a school like Columbia will have a ton of withdrawls already!

Anyway, I also got in after a second interview with Frantz. He does make sure that you are almost a sure bet when he gives you an acceptance. He grilled me on all the other waitlists I was on etc. When I wrote asking for an interview, I made it clear that I would come any day he was free even though I live relatively far away. I interviewed I think late May and was offered the acceptance on the spot. Now knowing how many people get in after these second interviews, it seems a little strange because I would have never known to ask for one had I not read this website.

Good luck!!!
 
so merlin17--was it worth it? are you completely happy there?

i am also withering away on the columbia waitlist and am 99% sure i would give up an organ, not to mention any other acceptances if i got in there.
but i share the concern of benjo and others: is it worth it? will i be glad i went through all of the torture and humiliation of throwing myself at the mercy of frantz? i didn't go to an ivy league, but my stats are solid. i was not offered a second interview, but i haven't called to beg for one yet either. i did send an LOI and i heard through one of my recommenders that frantz was "fairly confident" that he could offer me a spot...but is that BS?

aaarrrrg. the cost of columbia & NYC makes me want to be totally sure it is the incredible place i thought it was when i interviewed before i turn down cheaper options, but dammit i did love it!

okay, rant over.
thanks
 
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