New Phoenix Allo Medical School???

They have to be aware of it, if not, they really are not performing their job functions.

What annoyed me is all the newspaper articles saying things like the Phoenix area is the only metropolitian area in the U.S. without a medical school.

Patch Adams, good movie, a friend of mine was in it!

The goal is to open the new school (really an extension of U of A) within less than 5 years. It will take some time to get faculty/cirriculum/rotations set up.

About the media: If you can't do, then teach. And if you can't do either, write about it for a major newspaper. Seriously, the media sucks.

And about Patch Adams: the guy is a jerk.

Um, they already HAVE rotations in Phoenix.....

Good Sam, County, St. Joes, PCH,........

I was less than excited when I first heard about the new med school proposal in downtown Phoenix. It seemed like another cheap shot at osteopathic medicine and another attempt by the UofA to swamp AZCOM. But, after chatting with an AZCOM faculty member, it sounds like mostly good things will come of it. Apparently, when any other allopathic medical school has opened in a larger city (with a DO school already present), more rotation slots open to DO students....because the government can't discriminate. Sounds weird, but I think I believe it. In the end I hope this thing will open more hospital rotation doors for AZCOM students. Anyway, I'll be way gone by then!

Boomer said:

Um, they already HAVE rotations in Phoenix.....

Good Sam, County, St. Joes, PCH,........

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For a 100+ more persons per class?

mkmgal said:

I was less than excited when I first heard about the new med school proposal in downtown Phoenix. It seemed like another cheap shot at osteopathic medicine and another attempt by the UofA to swamp AZCOM. But, after chatting with an AZCOM faculty member, it sounds like mostly good things will come of it. Apparently, when any other allopathic medical school has opened in a larger city (with a DO school already present), more rotation slots open to DO students....because the government can't discriminate. Sounds weird, but I think I believe it. In the end I hope this thing will open more hospital rotation doors for AZCOM students. Anyway, I'll be way gone by then!

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The Phoenix hospitals have been discriminating since the inception of AZCOM. Such is life.

I don't know exactly how many extra spots there are in Phoenix, but I do recall a speech from Dr. Cole regarding the fact that U of A students do not fill up all the available spots, and they just kept hoping that AZCOM could get a shot at the unfilled rotations.

Plus, with the funding that a public school/teaching hospital receives for a med student, I'm inclined to believe that they can find the extra positions....

i'm throwing this out there knowing i may be slaughtered for it but...
if a student goes to a state school, pays state taxes, yada yada yada...i don't have a problem with that state resident from the state school getting first dibs at training at the hospitals in the state (ie: county)...i don't see that as "discriminating", to me that's more common sense. Those hospitals get NOTHING from azcom by letting us rotate there!
this has been attacked ad nauseum on this site, but if you really want to rotate at these hospitals you can...you just have to meet the min. requirements (usually a certain # of previous rotations or year in school).
i know i'm only a second year so i know nothing about this...but i have spoken with those that have rotated at these hospitals and will follow their lead.
it's about time the state opened a new school in phoenix...i too hate hearing the "finally we have a medical school in phoenix" but this comment comes from ignorant people who still think MD stands for medical doctor (including our outsourcing state jobs gov. janet).

What does MD stand for?

Etymology: Latin medicinae doctor
an earned academic degree conferring the rank and title of doctor of medicine
a person who has a doctorate of medicine
anyone who has a doctorate in any medically related field technically could call themselves a "medical doctor"

Thanks for the lesson. I'll add that to my random knowledge file.

I am not sure if the county hospital or any other govt funded hospitals get any use out of any med students: MD or DO. It is true that you can rotate almost anywhere in Phoenix regardless of what school. However, some hospitals do give preferential treatment to certain schools (U of A being one of them). I think you will see a difference when the new med school starts rotating their students and each school is going to have to pimp themselves out to get their students in good rotations. Thankfully none of us will have to deal with that because we will be done.

AZCOM student D.O.'s: Get over there and teach once you graduate!!! Good for you, good for AZCOM, good for our profession.

I am not sure if the county hospital or any other govt funded hospitals get any use out of any med students: MD or DO

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as far as services go, you right...anyone who's had to train someone knows that it is the epiome of inefficiency...but those sites do get $$ from the state for allowing state school students to rotate there...azcom isn't capable of doing that due to lack of state funding...
i'm glad i could add to the random knowledge file

k-ville, i couldn't agree more!!!!!

jhug said:

i'm throwing this out there knowing i may be slaughtered for it but...
if a student goes to a state school, pays state taxes, yada yada yada...i don't have a problem with that state resident from the state school getting first dibs at training at the hospitals in the state (ie: county)...i don't see that as "discriminating", to me that's more common sense. Those hospitals get NOTHING from azcom by letting us rotate there!
this has been attacked ad nauseum on this site, but if you really want to rotate at these hospitals you can...you just have to meet the min. requirements (usually a certain # of previous rotations or year in school).
i know i'm only a second year so i know nothing about this...but i have spoken with those that have rotated at these hospitals and will follow their lead.
it's about time the state opened a new school in phoenix...i too hate hearing the "finally we have a medical school in phoenix" but this comment comes from ignorant people who still think MD stands for medical doctor (including our outsourcing state jobs gov. janet).

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You are right Jason. But for me, as with many other AZCOMers, the crappy thing is that we cannot do our CORE rotations at the major teaching facilities in the valley. And, the min requirements for Good Sam for example, are like 8 weeks of IM in a ?traditional? hospital-based program?i.e. we must go out of town to get the req.

Growth is good! Especially when it will benefit the economy of the area and the access to health care for phoenix residents. But trying to be the glass is half full type of guy lately; if they build their own academic center and hospital, why do U of A students still need to do rotations at the other hospitals in the valley? If you think of it purely as a financial decision, it doesn't seem like U of A will shell out money to train students at other hospitals when they can do it at there own institutions. As the dominoes fall and the other hospitals start to lose some income, maybe they will CALL US and ask for our money and students. The only question then becomes is will Dr. G pay, because in the past she has refused to do so in the past.

This whole topic is just making me crazy. The local media has their collective heads wedged so firmly up their asses it's ridiculous. I've sent off a handful of flaming angry letters, but nothing really came of it except I felt better (which is what's important, of course).

I don't know the details of this new "medical school", but it sounds like it's just going to be an extended U of A campus, like someone already said. They already practically have a satellite campus. Those 3rd and 4th years never have to go back to Tucson -- they can take all their silly post-rotation exams, etc. at the location here.

AZCOM is the reason why our rotations suck, not because U of A is hogging them. By not affiliating with a hospital, Dr. G doesn't have to shell out the cash required -- of course, we all knew that -- and they can still try to portray the school as cutting-edge, by emphasizing ambulatory care, as that really is the future of medicine you know. (Dripping sarcasm) So she gets to keep using $100 bills as toilet paper and they think the school comes off looking good.

Damn them all. These clinical years have been nothing but a royal pain in the ass between the ******ed little tests and time limits on rotations through a given specialty and all the endless IM and FP requirements (again, trying to force us all through the FP/IM cookie cutter mold). Nice try. I'm going into my hospital-based, non-clinical, MD-dominated specialty with my middle finger held high in the general direction of Glendale.

cookypuss3 said:

AZCOM is the reason why our rotations suck, not because U of A is hogging them. By not affiliating with a hospital, Dr. G doesn't have to shell out the cash required -- of course, we all knew that -- and they can still try to portray the school as cutting-edge, by emphasizing ambulatory care, as that really is the future of medicine you know. (Dripping sarcasm) So she gets to keep using $100 bills as toilet paper and they think the school comes off looking good.

Damn them all. These clinical years have been nothing but a royal pain in the ass between the ******ed little tests and time limits on rotations through a given specialty and all the endless IM and FP requirements (again, trying to force us all through the FP/IM cookie cutter mold). Nice try. I'm going into my hospital-based, non-clinical, MD-dominated specialty with my middle finger held high in the general direction of Glendale.

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Huh oh.....we've seen this route before.....here come the MS I's (or, technically, is it MS II's?) to defend blindly........I need some whisky......out

Boomer said:

Huh oh.....we've seen this route before.....here come the MS I's (or, technically, is it MS II's?) to defend blindly........I need some whisky......out

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Yes, how the school spirit seems to dwindle right after second year... oh how they will learn!

And sorry for bringing up an old topic -- but I am so above and beyond disgusted with AZCOM right now, I just can't help myself!

PS) Make mine a vodka...

Cooky, what did you do to prepare for a pathology route? Where did you take your electives (or were you also blocked by the "more worthy" UA students)?

Ice-1 said:

Cooky, what did you do to prepare for a pathology route? Where did you take your electives (or were you also blocked by the "more worthy" UA students)?

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Oh no no no. Even if there had been an attempted cockblocking of my rotations, it wouldn't happen. I'm tenacious when I want to be. *baring fangs*

I called St. Joe's directly, totally circumventing the disaster that is clinical ed, and set up a 4 week elective there, almost a full year in advance. And since we can only do 8 weeks in any specialty (DEEP DRAMATIC SIGH) I have 4 weeks at the ME's office coming up in a couple months. It hasn't been difficult to get these rotations, but I have some hookups and this was before St. Joe's changed their application process for rotations and made it a huge production.

Bottom line: make friends with pathologists! And be tenacious.

Bottom line: make friends (with pathologists!) And be tenacious.

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good advice!

jgrady said:

So bottom line: I would add to your advice (and correct me if I'm wrong here being a lowly pre-MSI ) that in addition to being tenacious, it REALLY helps to know what you want to go into before mid-MSII when you get MEMS access. By then everyone is more concerned with the boards than the next year's rotations.

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Granted. I decided in between the 1st and 2nd year, so I had plenty of time to prepare. It would be a lot more difficult had I just figured this out...

BTW, MEMS is worthless! I swear they haven't updated the database since 1999.

Just have to do all the legwork yourself, like you said....

if the school is not paying a hospital for students to rotate through it , where does the MS3/4 money go? that seems outrageous!

Su4n2 said:

if the school is not paying a hospital for students to rotate through it , where does the MS3/4 money go? that seems outrageous!

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into the administration's pocketbook. certainly you are not that naive.

no, i am not naive, but they should have at least an excuse as to what they are doing with the money. Do you guys know if this is true for many DO schools, that we don't pay hospitals for our rotations? why would a hospital take on med students then?

Su4n2 said:

no, i am not naive, but they should have at least an excuse as to what they are doing with the money. Do you guys know if this is true for many DO schools, that we don't pay hospitals for our rotations? why would a hospital take on med students then?

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I don't know what other DO schools have as far as hospital setups. Clearly, my research on the subject is piss-poor (because if I had known, would I really have gone to AZCOM?)... but AZCOM, IMHO, is shunting MS3/4 dollars back into the university system as a whole. They just opened a podiatry school, for crying out loud. And they gleefully raise tuition 6-7% EVERY FREAKING YEAR. And every year they send out that happy news on the fanciest, thickest, creamiest paper you could imagine. I always think, oh, so this is where the money is going!

My impression is that all the school gives a crap about is Step 1 pass rates. Because the first two years are really awesome. After that - we can all go to hell. Support is nil. The famous "open door policy" is a joke. The whole graduation fiasco really is the icing on the cake. And they tried to appease us with a fancy DO only banquet the night before...... oh yeah, did I forget to mention that tickets are $50? Whatever!

They're already sending PGY-3s propaganda re: alumni donations. They've GOT to be kidding....

isn't this the fourth year in a row that azcom has had a 100% pass rate for stepII? That's pretty darn good for a school that doesn't care...imo.

jhug said:

isn't this the fourth year in a row that azcom has had a 100% pass rate for stepII? That's pretty darn good for a school that doesn't care...imo.

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Damn sure did not have 100% pass January of this year.

could be my mistake then...i thought we got an email from dean cole stating that we had...i'll see if i still have it (but i really don't think i do bc it was so long ago)

jhug said:

could be my mistake then...i thought we got an email from dean cole stating that we had...i'll see if i still have it (but i really don't think i do bc it was so long ago)

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It was my class....we didn't.


Dear MS IV Students and Faculty,



The results are in for COMLEX Level 2 for the class of 2004. For the ?Total Group?, all COM students who took the exam, 91.8% passed. For AZCOM 95.1% passed. Once again congratulations on surpassing the average of all students who took the exam, you continue to represent MWU/AZCOM very well.



Later today I will e-mail those who did not pass so that the rest of you will not have to worry if you were one of them. If you have any questions please e-mail or call me.



Sincerely,



James W. Cole, D.O.

Dean, AZCOM

[email protected]

623-572-3300

thanks for clearing that up boomer...
(i would hate to detract from the 95.1%...that is great!)

Is the "graduation fiasco" just that the DO's graduate with other health professionals, or is there something more to it?

If the former, I'm not sure I get it--it was mentioned in our class a few times last year, and I never gathered what the big deal was. But then again, I skipped the white coat ceremony for a nap.

Graduation, at least this year, I wouldn't necessarily call a fiasco. Anti-climactic, yes. It was kind of plain and boring. Watching every MWU student graduate--I can go either way on this, but it certainly made for a long ceremony. I think class of 03's ceremony went for over 3 hours.....that may be the fiasco. As a result, some of the speeches (in particular, I know, student speeches) were removed from the program.

They used to do separate ceremonies for each college, and I think I would have preferred a smaller, more "intimate" ceremony. As it was, there was no keynote speaker, unless you consider Dr. G, wearing her full Public Enemy gear and talking for 10 minutes a keynote speech. If you don't know what I mean about the Public Enemy gear, just allow me to say that her presidential medallion looks like something Flava Flav would have worn back in the 80's.

Only one problem with your last sentence Luke--if you skip this one to take a nap, you don't fulfill all grad requirements.....although, I really wonder if they'd withhold your degree for skipping out.....hmmmm

Yes, actually having to attend graduation is a bit of a problem, which I sincerely hope gets changed within the next few years. That's some prime napping time.

cookypuss3 said:

Damn them all. These clinical years have been nothing but a royal pain in the ass between the ******ed little tests and time limits on rotations through a given specialty and all the endless IM and FP requirements (again, trying to force us all through the FP/IM cookie cutter mold). Nice try. I'm going into my hospital-based, non-clinical, MD-dominated specialty with my middle finger held high in the general direction of Glendale.

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Can I get a 'Hell yeah!' for Cookypuss?...

Whether it's Dean Cole's new sports car every year, or Dr. G's country club estates in Chicago and Arrowhead, it's obvious where our MSIII / MSIV $ goes! This school is a money making empire. They don't give a damn about how crowded Anatomy will be next year with MSI and Podiatry students climbing on top of each other. They don't give a damn that I have already had to make rotation arrangements because their clinical education sucks. Whatever...They won't get a dime from me after graduation. This is the part where I grab it and say 'Eat a FAT ONE Administration!'

They don't give a damn about how crowded Anatomy will be next year with MSI and Podiatry students climbing on top of each other.

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actually, it's my understanding that the pod's take a different anatomy course so they won't be climbing all over the DO's...and there are two anatomy labs to help separate the two classes...

jhug said:

actually, it's my understanding that the pod's take a different anatomy course so they won't be climbing all over the DO's...and there are two anatomy labs to help separate the two classes...

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Maybe, but resources will still be spread more thinly, no matter how they are presenting the situation. Not cool.

As for board pass rates: I think the school trying to sell itself as having a better pass rate than the others is absurd. Maybe I'm generalizing, but I'm willing to bet that the motivation levels and study habits of our medical students are pretty much the same as those across the country. Bottom line -- it all averages out in the end, like it always does, and I'm not convinced that AZCOM has some special fairy dust that makes us score better. I'm not discounting how awesome our first two years were, don't get me wrong. I just think that you can't judge the efficacy of a school based on its pass/fail rates. What if the majority of the class BARELY passed? The stats look pretty, but are they really representative of the truth?

As for the graduation mess: about 3/4 of my class is upset to some degree about the university-wide graduation, for varying reasons. The other 1/4 of the class is probably too drunk to know what's going on anyway. The bright idea of having one huge graduation will save money (for administration) and promote a big happy family feeling, where we hold hands and sing Kumbayah at the end, as the school comes off looking politically correct by graduating us all as one big allied health team. Bull****! I can't imagine ANY of the programs can be happy about this. By lumping us all together it totally discounts the significance of each of the programs. Plus it limits each student to only invite, what is it, 2 or 3 people? And then, they have the stupidity to schedule it for a Friday when a lot of people have to work and can't come? Give me a break.

I agree with most of your post cooky, except for the comment on limiting invites.

When MWU did separate class graduations, they were at the Glendale Civic Center, which was a smaller location. At that time, invitations were limited.

Now that they are using the Sundome, there is virtually unlimited seating available, and, at least this year, there was no limit as to the number of people you could invite.

As for Friday graduations....I believe that the driving force behind this was religious influences.....Saturday not good for SDA, Sunday not good for most others. Not sure how to make everyone happy on that note......oh yeah, can't make everyone happy, so I guess the answer is to piss off the working crowd, as there is no precedence for suing based on interfering with one's work schedule (religion, would be a whole different boat there)..........

They told us a while ago that we would be limited to two tickets to graduation even when done at the Sundome.... so who knows what the real deal is. They've been too afraid to address the whole thing directly and in concrete terms.

Let's not get started on them kissing the collective ass of the religious crowd by having it on Friday as opposed to Sat/Sun.

Interesting. Are you sure that wasn't two tickets to the graduation banquet the night before? They "gave" us two tickets to that (and I sure didn't go...better things to do at Fox and Hound), but allowed us to purchase additional tix at 50 bucks a pop.

The reason I ask is because the Sundome wasn't even near full (might have been half full) this year with unlimited invites. Wouldn't make any sense to limit it to two at the Sundome. Limit to 20....maybe....but still probably couldn't fill it.

Boomer said:

Interesting. Are you sure that wasn't two tickets to the graduation banquet the night before? They "gave" us two tickets to that (and I sure didn't go...better things to do at Fox and Hound), but allowed us to purchase additional tix at 50 bucks a pop.

The reason I ask is because the Sundome wasn't even near full (might have been half full) this year with unlimited invites. Wouldn't make any sense to limit it to two at the Sundome. Limit to 20....maybe....but still probably couldn't fill it.

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No, I knew about the 2-ticket limit to the silly banquet the night before with the $50 extras (choke!). Like I said, it's been a while since anyone even quasi-official came out and made any statements about the whole mess, but I seem to remember that there was a limit on actual graduation attendance too (something about the fact that there were so many people actually graduating). Plus -- I heard something about the Sundome being under construction this year which would obviously preclude our festivities from being held there.

Again -- who the hell knows. It's a clusterf*ck.

Lovely. Nice return on your quarter of a million dollar investment, eh?

I went to the last AZCOM separate graduation, a friend was graduating in 2002. That graduation was at the Glendale civic center and the keynote speaker was some guy that was the Provost at the Yapapi County Junior College (spelling of Yapapi may be incorrect). This dude didn't even have a doctorate in any field, much less medicine (but was probably some bud of Dr. G ) and the whole thing was pretty cheesy. I felt sorry for my friend, she had invited guests from out of town, etc. But I also heard that this year's graduation was nothing to write home about either. Boomer should give up the details on this. Someone made a video tape of it and I think that the current MS 3&4 classes are looking at it. Is it true that everone had to sprint across the stage and catch their diplomas in route?

Who cares. The weather was nice and I got to hang out at some great resort pools. You were a suckah if you went to the banquet. Plenty of great restaurants to drop 50 bucks a head on.

I have to say, I "wish" that they would change it so that we had our own graduation. Haing programs have their own graduations will not "ruin the team approach to healthcare"

but who am I kidding, it's not gonna change

I think Cookypuss is right but there is no point complaining about it. I used to complain about it but I have changed my stance on the issue. There are several things we as DO's can do in the Phoenix area to help future AZCOM students and DO's in general.

1. TEACH - become an attending or a chief resident. Academic medicine may not be lucrative but it affords many people the ideal opportunity to teach, do research and practice medicine for respectable pay. You can help recruit qualified DO's into programs that may have been discriminated against in the past.

2. DONATE - When I start earning that fat paycheck, I'm going to give back...but not without a say in the matter. Alumni have the most influence in regards to how a school is run. Since our school is so new, we lack the alumni that is capable of donating large sums of money. But when you are established, consider donating money and making small demands at the same time. Eventually, these small changes will lead to big changes. And keep in mind, Dr. G isn't going to live forever.

3. Be HUMBLE and CARRY YOURSELF WELLl - Some DO's are so damn defensive of their training that they rub MD's the wrong way. Be proud that you are a DO but don't take offense every time someone questions your degree. Many times, they are just ignorant and are trying to learn. You will be suprised that many of those same ignorant fools will now defend DO's as they worked alongside you and realize that you are a great physician.

4. WRITE - Every time the news or some organization fails to represent our school, we have to let them know about it. MD does not stand for medical doctor which is what they think. Let them know. If they receive a 20-30 letters per year; they will to get the idea. Educate them but don't share your opinion. Quote facts, statistics and the law. According to the law, MD and DO's are viewed as an equivalent degree so it is incorrect for them to state that Phoenix lacks a medical school.

-Bottomline is that our current crop of students will be fine. In fact, it's good that a Phoenix Medical school will be established because we will have more medical students to do our scut. Future students may be affected unless more of us get involved with teaching and using our influence locally.

azdiddy azdiddy azdiddy
everyone should cut-n-past what you just wrote and read it everyday...that was perfectly said...from the teaching to the donating $$ (at the encouragement of positive change) to speaking out and to how we treat our peers...that is perfect advice!!! thank you!!!