What states require a rotating intern year for licensure.

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dkwyler94

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I'm sure this has been discussed, but I couldn't easily find the answer. I am applying for residency now, and found out that one program in Michigan does not accept DOs, because we have to have our rotating intern year first. I know a friend a year ahead of me who got into Optho was having problems as after he matched he found out it was in one of those states and the AOA wouldn't approve his first year (he had to take extra rotation over summer and his vacation to get it approved).

I would say those states are basically out of the match options for me, just wanted to see which ones they are.

Wouldn't it be nice if the AOA would petition to get them to accept us all. Are DOs really so inferior that we have to do an extra year to be comparible to our MD colleagues?
David
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The Infamous Five are:

Oklahoma, Michigan, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Florida.

The difficulty comes from within the Osteopathic profession, not because of "Allopathic discrimination." The state Osteopathic Boards that grant licenses in these five states require the traditional DO rotating internship. In order to do most residencies, one needs to be a licensed physician, therein lies the rub.

As you allude to, there is a process whereby one can petition the AOA to accept ACGME PGY-1 training. In the majority of cases, the AOA accepts these requests. It is important to initiate this process before beginning your internship. A "transitional year" type of ACGME program is ideal, because the application stipulates that rotations be done in OB and peds among others. For certain specialties, such as your friend in ophtho, that presents an obvious problem if the residency program does not allow enough flexibility in the PGY-1 year to do those rotations.
 
InductionAgent said:
The Infamous Five are:

Oklahoma, Michigan, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Florida.

The difficulty comes from within the Osteopathic profession, not because of "Allopathic discrimination." The state Osteopathic Boards that grant licenses in these five states require the traditional DO rotating internship. In order to do most residencies, one needs to be a licensed physician, therein lies the rub.

As you allude to, there is a process whereby one can petition the AOA to accept ACGME PGY-1 training. In the majority of cases, the AOA accepts these requests. It is important to initiate this process before beginning your internship. A "transitional year" type of ACGME program is ideal, because the application stipulates that rotations be done in OB and peds among others. For certain specialties, such as your friend in ophtho, that presents an obvious problem if the residency program does not allow enough flexibility in the PGY-1 year to do those rotations.
Click to expand...

Do you know who we must contact to get it approved. Where do we get the paperwork for it. Thanks.

NF
 
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What if we have taken all 3 steps to the USMLE and are licensed by the NBME-- then are we still required to do the AOA internship to be licensed in 1 of the 5 states?

Another way to put it-
Is the stipulation due to being a DO or is it an issue of NBOME licensure?
 
Thanks for the info. I was looking at some programs in Michigan and PA, I guess they are both out. It seems like unless you do a Primary Care residency, you are going to have a hard time getting your intern year approved. There aren't many residency programs I am aware of that have OB and Peds in their Intern year.

Just venting here, but I didn't have to go DO and it is times like this that I really regret my choice. The education is fine, but the people at the top of our profession sure seem to be there to make life hell for the rest of us.

InductionAgent said:
The Infamous Five are:

Oklahoma, Michigan, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Florida.

The difficulty comes from within the Osteopathic profession, not because of "Allopathic discrimination." The state Osteopathic Boards that grant licenses in these five states require the traditional DO rotating internship. In order to do most residencies, one needs to be a licensed physician, therein lies the rub.

As you allude to, there is a process whereby one can petition the AOA to accept ACGME PGY-1 training. In the majority of cases, the AOA accepts these requests. It is important to initiate this process before beginning your internship. A "transitional year" type of ACGME program is ideal, because the application stipulates that rotations be done in OB and peds among others. For certain specialties, such as your friend in ophtho, that presents an obvious problem if the residency program does not allow enough flexibility in the PGY-1 year to do those rotations.
Click to expand...
 
I have often wondered when it came to Florida if they will ever lift it due to two reasons.

1) there is a shortage of doctors in this state and some severe malpratice costs associated with working here certainly isn't attracting them in droves.

2) For example...you can do EM in allopathic and get out in 3 years but if you do a DO internship plus a rotating internship its 4. Thats a nice 6 figure difference in a year that can be put to paying off loans. Seems like most canidates (like me) will take this into consideration when applying.

(this is all self ponderings....I know getting any committee to change is hard as hell)
 
B_ADAMS said:
What if we have taken all 3 steps to the USMLE and are licensed by the NBME-- then are we still required to do the AOA internship to be licensed in 1 of the 5 states?

Another way to put it-
Is the stipulation due to being a DO or is it an issue of NBOME licensure?
Click to expand...


Yes, you still have to do the internship, or get approval for your ACGME PGY 1 year.

You are not licensed by the NBME (or, by the NBOME for that matter). Licenses to practice medicine are issued by each individual state, and as such, licensing issues are subject to the rules of that state (no matter HOW f---ing stupid those rules may be).
 
dkwyler94 said:
Thanks for the info. I was looking at some programs in Michigan and PA, I guess they are both out. It seems like unless you do a Primary Care residency, you are going to have a hard time getting your intern year approved. There aren't many residency programs I am aware of that have OB and Peds in their Intern year.

Just venting here, but I didn't have to go DO and it is times like this that I really regret my choice. The education is fine, but the people at the top of our profession sure seem to be there to make life hell for the rest of us.
Click to expand...

Depends on what you do and where you go. I'm at an allopathic IM program in one of those five states, and my program (which is fairly DO friendly anyway) has helped to work around the requirements (i.e.-one of my ward medicine months is substituted for a month of surgery, peds--which is a 'recommended elective' for sr. resdients-- gets moved to intern year, and one elective month is sacrificed to do OB/Gyn).

I've heard of reciprocity agreements working (do your internship/residency in Washington, or any other place, obtain full licensure, then move to one of the states in question) however, I've heard that in some cases, licenses have been denied. You'd have to check with the state where you're interested in practicing.
 
Boomer said:
Depends on what you do and where you go. I'm at an allopathic IM program in one of those five states, and my program (which is fairly DO friendly anyway) has helped to work around the requirements (i.e.-one of my ward medicine months is substituted for a month of surgery, peds--which is a 'recommended elective' for sr. resdients-- gets moved to intern year, and one elective month is sacrificed to do OB/Gyn).

I've heard of reciprocity agreements working (do your internship/residency in Washington, or any other place, obtain full licensure, then move to one of the states in question) however, I've heard that in some cases, licenses have been denied. You'd have to check with the state where you're interested in practicing.
Click to expand...

Boomer,
yes, pennsylvania is one of those states that tends to deny licensure, for DO's that may be licensed in another state ( such as NJ or NY) on the basis of a ACGME residency, but no osteopathic traditional internship. You see most of the 5 states also require an Osteopathic Practical exam. Could you pass the exam after not doing OMT for 5 years? It's tough without having someone tutor you, especially when they give the exam at PCOM.
 
DermpathDO said:
Boomer,
yes, pennsylvania is one of those states that tends to deny licensure, for DO's that may be licensed in another state ( such as NJ or NY) on the basis of a ACGME residency, but no osteopathic traditional internship. You see most of the 5 states also require an Osteopathic Practical exam. Could you pass the exam after not doing OMT for 5 years? It's tough without having someone tutor you, especially when they give the exam at PCOM.
Click to expand...


From what I hear, this OMM exam used to be a complete joke, but now it's fairly difficult. You see, PA has far too many physicians (especially OB/Gyn's) Docs are flocking into the state because of the favorable malpractice climate, so POMA feels it necessary to make it difficult for physicians to get licensed there. Even those who have passed the COMLEX 2-PE (which has an OMT component) will be required to pass the PA exam.

PS - The exam can be taken in Erie as well
 
DOrk said:
You see, PA has far too many physicians (especially OB/Gyn's) Docs are flocking into the state because of the favorable malpractice climate
Click to expand...

Blatantly false! PA is one of the "crisis" states as far as malpractice is concerned and physicians are leaving there by the dozens.
 
Sensei_Sevo said:
Blatantly false! PA is one of the "crisis" states as far as malpractice is concerned and physicians are leaving there by the dozens.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know :) I guess sarcasm doesn't come across well in this medium.
 
DOrk said:
From what I hear, this OMM exam used to be a complete joke, but now it's fairly difficult. You see, PA has far too many physicians (especially OB/Gyn's) Docs are flocking into the state because of the favorable malpractice climate, so POMA feels it necessary to make it difficult for physicians to get licensed there. Even those who have passed the COMLEX 2-PE (which has an OMT component) will be required to pass the PA exam.

PS - The exam can be taken in Erie as well
Click to expand...


POMA feels it is necessary to raise more cash and thus requires another stupid exam that they can charge new docs for(same reason for comlex PE, don't be confused about the motivation). I :love: our leadership.
 
Gotcha' DOrk....I should have known. :)
 
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