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I'm guessing he did since he has an MD and is called "doctor."KevinEm said:Actually - ask Apollyon if he went to a "real" medical school. His answer should be pretty funny.
I'm guessing he did since he has an MD and is called "doctor."KevinEm said:Actually - ask Apollyon if he went to a "real" medical school. His answer should be pretty funny.
daddymd said:My screen name should tell you where I spend my time.
Beats me, as his "screen name" (obviously somebody raised on AOL) tells me nothing. MD == degree or Maryland... or something else? Maybe he was referring to the "Daddy" part? I don't know.tonem said:Maryland?
bulgethetwine said:I think there is a better question: What are the hidden gems out there as regards programs?
bulgethetwine said:To say nothing of a resident who may have a vested interest in propagating the reputation of their program, but I like to think that there are very few here who are disingenuous in this regard.
docB said:Awsome! An actual specific question. I'd say the gems in the rough are Temple (as I said before) because I think they'll be hands down top tier within ten years. The program in Temple, TX (not related to Temple in Philly) is a gem in the rough. It sees a heavy trauma census for the number of residents it has. It's smack in the middle of TX with a huge catchment area with its helo service. If you like rural living but want to see enough tauma check it out. The program in Kalamazoo, MI is an underrated program. Good US, Dr. Overton is nationally known, solid community program with a good lifestyle in a nice place.
True some might try to pad their own houses but as an EP in private practice I can assure that no one gives two sh--s about where I trained, or even if I did and didn't just forge the papers. I move the meat. That's all that counts in privates. Now in academics they care.
With all due respect, if you look at Roja's statements they were not even- handed and also contained a certain number of personal attacks- I consider those over the top (see his/her descriptive words such as gunner, ridiculous and implying that my question was merely being tolerated in a polite way by the regulars in this forum). If you read what I wrote nothing implies that I think Roja is naive merely because he/she diagress with me. However I do consider the personal attacks poor form. In fact, I agree with most of what he/she says regarding ROL and ultimately choosing a residency. I am just trying to get more information.
As several have politely tried to point out, this is a gunner type question which has absolutlely *nothing* to do with the quality of EMP's that are created. As has been repeated, ad nauseum, residency is what you make of it. Crappy EMP's come from 'great programs' and vice versa. There are no overtly competitive fellowships and companies just want people who are trained.
So, the list is kind of ridiculous, in my opinion. The thought of 'top' programs didn't even enter into my application process. I picked an area I wanted to live in and ranked programs according to issues important to me.
Come on folks, can't we all just get along. Seems that so many threads become new peeps vs. old school posters.
Who cares if Champ1999 thinks Roja's opinion is naive? Why does everyone feel the need to pounce on him for taking a different viewpoint? Maybe, despite her experience and status as a PGYII, her opinion on this issue is a little bit naive.
roja said:but here goes...
Champ
No one cares, per se. However, the reason (at least I hope) that people have decided to defend me is not because I have a bunch of posts, but because they respect my opinions.
tonem said:Nope it's pretty much cuz you have a lot of posts....
Eme-RG-ency said:Now where do you go from here? And what if you are not at the top of your class or top applicant but have lots of love and dedication for EM? Is there a bottom tear we can apply to and get in? I know I know, the RCC and tight regulations. Yes, even after a couple months worth of research, I am still very niave. Another great question is ...what are the things that you hate or love about your program???
Much respect to all.
QuinnNSU said:I think Metrohealth in Cleveland is a "hidden jewel" as well. I ended up ranking it 4th only because I didn't want to drag the wifey up to Cleveland, but I think the program offers a lot and the ability to train at Cleveland Clinic, with its huge cardiac emphasis, would be a great experience. Plus Metrohealth just got a new ED from what I hear, and I thought their Grand Rounds had a great "informal, everyone-is-equal" attitude but also their discussions during the lectures were great.
Q
mikecwru said:I don't want any of these gunner pricks at my program, they'll just be hellish 'terns to flog.
mike
mikecwru said:We usually don't go very low on our rank list, not that I'm miffed that we're not on the little voting poll but ?John's Hopkins? and ?Harvard? are for emergency medicine.
mike
Eme-RG-ency said:The other problem with this survey is that it allows people like me to vote....an MSIII that doesnt know jack. I almost voted for fun, but didnt want to mess up your survey champ1999.
I vote for USF... cause quinn has lots of informative posts and he's a DO.
I vote for Duke ... cause appolyon speaks latin and thats cool.
I vote for Cinci ... cause I originally from OH ... so we can throw Metro in too.
I vote for UT Southwest ... cause Andy has a cool website.
I vote for Denver ... cause its ski season.
I definate vote for any program with hot redheads.
A good question to ask on this thread is how do you choose a program and narrow your choices? What are the things your should look for in a program? I realize Desperado went over this thoroughly on the EM FAQ page, but it would be nice to hear others opinions. I know Quinn applied to everything East of the Mississippi. Most agree location is number one. Now where do you go from here? And what if you are not at the top of your class or top applicant but have lots of love and dedication for EM? Is there a bottom tear we can apply to and get in? I know I know, the RCC and tight regulations. Yes, even after a couple months worth of research, I am still very niave. Another great question is ...what are the things that you hate or love about your program???
Much respect to all.
Sessamoid said:I agree that it's more fun to haze the cocky students. It's so easy to find embarrassing gaps in knowledge that early in their training.
The point where the residents start trying to assert their independence is when they're the most dangerous. For those of us who did three year programs that was around the middle of the second year. It's when they start trying NOT to ask for the attending for help that you have to watch them the closest.
NinerNiner999 said:It's tough to compete with the "World Famous Cleveland Clinic" afterall...
Just had to pop in to second the fact that Drexel (Hahnemann) is clearly one of the best programs out there - no bias of coursedlung said:well, now that things have finally calmed down...
I think possibly the simplest criteria to judge "the best" program would be the "which program will get me (almost) any (non-academic) job in the country?" factor, which seems to boil down to reputation and alumni base.
If that's very important to you, the majority of programs that are four-year, county/urban, and really, really old will do it.
Some examples (going west-to-east, with an obvious regional bias) would be Highland, USC/LAC, Denver, Hennepin, Charity, Cook County, Indiana, UC, Henry Ford, Detroit Receiving, Pitt, BMC, Hahnemann...
But, as has been pointed out, even if such programs are "the best" by this subjective measurement, many have prohibitive drawbacks for some people...
Scrubbs said:Just had to pop in to second the fact that Drexel (Hahnemann) is clearly one of the best programs out there - no bias of course
We're no Maricopa, but... 25 years of graduates, something like 8 former residents who are PD's, and 3 active fellowships makes for a fantastic networking base for both academic and community positions! Oh... and we have pretty awesome training too
oh apollyon, I couldn't help but comment on your obvious anger issues.......just kidding. I wanted to fire you up again. Honestly though, I think that there are 2 questions being asked and answered here......both legit. #1 what are the best programs? Obviously an individual and subjective question. For example, Apollyon's program (Duke I believe) blew it for many potential applicants when they had to scramble an ENTIRE class! For a medical center that has a reputation for being somewhat snooty, this looked like the PD refused to rank any but the very top applicants. Also, I knew the folks that didn't match into EM at my school........let's face it, they weren't being sought out for there vast fund of knowledge. #2 What programs have the best REPUTATIONS in the field of EM? This is a very different question, and one that indeed does have an answer. Denver, Pitt, Carolinas, Indiana, Cinncinati......These are the top 5 EM programs ONLY AS FAR AS REPUTATION goes. This says absolutly nothing about "fit" or quality of education for a particular applicant. I can't figure out why everyone gets so bent out of shape over this question. I also can't figure out how all of these "real EM" residents have time to post so much.....seriously......move on.Apollyon said:Well, I'm not "about 10 people" - in fact, you described me almost to a "t" ("constantly" is a vague word, and two people out of 25 thousand isn't "everyone else"), but, the Latin, hey, that's the way I talk (which people that know me that are on SDN can attest to).
May not post much? You must be prone to hyperbole (both up and down). As dictionary.com says about the synonym "unknown quantity":
"a factor in a given situation whose bearing and importance is not apparent"
From what I've seen, most people have something good to say on SDN; your bearing is not apparent (and I would guess it would be positive). Not having time is understandable, but not having the inclination is more distressing, because that makes it sound like you have something to say, but choose not to. That is unfortunate.
As far as screen names, who the hell knows? Yours could be representative of anything from Ozzie Nelson to being the mack daddy.
It's good he has your approval (so he's not alone in his question).
The irony is that, by what you state, you (and Champ1999) both already have an idea what you believe are the "best" programs. However, from my anecdotal experience, the resounding theme that continually, year after year, comes down about EM is that the best program is the best program for you (kind of like the MVP - the most valuable player to a team - not in a league). To ask if Harbor-UCLA, Olive View-UCLA, Denver, Cinci, Hennepin, or any other program is best implies someone trying to fit themselves into the program, instead of finding a program that fits the person. Is Highland best? If you want great training, but, also, the knife and gun club of Oakland, notwithstanding being in California (which is heaven or hell, depending on the person). Likewise for Jacobi, or Detroit Receiving for that matter - work your ASS off with a grueling, crushing pace, urban and inner city. Want tertiary, lot of zebras, and +/- suburban, with associated heavy pressure from medicine and/or surgery? Try UT-Southwestern, Stanford, Mayo, Duke, Hopkins? Want the home of modern day trauma? University of Maryland.
Opinions are like dinguses - everyone's got one, and most of them stink. Make your own decision.
Really? You figured this out how exactly?gpops said:Denver, Pitt, Carolinas, Indiana, Cinncinati......These are the top 5 EM programs ONLY AS FAR AS REPUTATION goes.
I agree with sessamoid.....top five according to whom?Sessamoid said:Really? You figured this out how exactly?
gpops said:I also can't figure out how all of these "real EM" residents have time to post so much.....seriously......move on.
Apollyon said:So you're digging this up (it's already days old)...to say "move on". Irony.
So much time to post? Efficiency in the ED - I'm waiting for the next patient. If you aspire to be an excellent EM doc, you'll learn to multitask. I'm still getting better.
hello23 said:Not everything is about you.
QuinnNSU said:who raised lazarus on this one? interesting my a$$.
Q
kungfufishing said:in-n-out
post pad
fatty
So which thread gets the coveted Lazarus award? This one, the Kinetic EM bashing tirade on the Surg board or something else?QuinnNSU said:who raised lazarus on this one? interesting my a$$.
Q
EctopicFetus said:IMO which program is the best stuff is what makes EM different from EVERY other residency. We arent as concerned about being at the best as we are at being the best.
pinbor1 said:I think you hit the nail on the head. Plus we are concerned about the best burgers and fries... mmm IN n OUT
EctopicFetus said:I think whoever compared this to the BCS is missing a few things and honestly ranking EM programs is much harder than debatig the BCS.
Eme-RG-ency said:Nope, not missing anything... been following SDN EM forum for years now. I am merely trying to have a sense of humor about a topic that has "explored thoroughly" on this message board.
And I still believe Haiku General has a better program than In and Out. Sure you got burgers at In and Out, but that Haiku got rhythm yo. And thats the shiznit, ya heard, sho nuff, fo real, woooooooop.
bulgethetwine said:At the expense of coming off as a REAL AS*H**e, if you are class of 2006 as your moniker expresses, shouldn't you wait until you are maybe, at least, IN a residency before you extol?
Of course, I'm IN a residency, and I'm not sure that my opinion would be any more/less valuable than yours... Geez, I'm really not trying to inflame or trample on anyone's feelings, but....????
Eme-RG-ency said:Ectopic is a fellow 4th year student... so its just brotherly love. I didnt mean any disrespect to him or anyone else on here. But since you mentioned it, sorry to get your panties in a bunch.
Getting into residency is a priority for me, so I think I will just quit posting on here all together. Peace and good luck to everyone this year.