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How do adcoms view people who worked part-time as an EMT? Would it be helpful and is it worth the time and training?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Being an EMT as an extracurricular?
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I wouldn't get the training just to say that you're certified as an EMT. But if you're going to actually do something with it, like get a job or volunteer with a fire department, then it could be worth your while because you'll get some good experience with patient care. Just keep in mind that depending on where you are it may be difficult to find a job with a 911-based agency, so you may be stuck working for a private company, in which case you may just be doing lots of non-emergency interfacility transports. I also wouldn't do this just because you think it will make your application look better. Do it if you think you'll enjoy it or if you want some hands-on experience. Adcoms tend to see through people who do it just to pad their resumes. Do a search on this though. There have been lots of posts on this in the past.
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EMT is very intensive i heard and the training is tough as well. There are rapid courses that are like two months but there are also courses that takes a whole year. And most EMT trainees are required to work/intern w/ real EMT or the emergency department before they can fully sign on as EMT
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More and more applicants are EMTs. After awhile, it isn't as impressive as it once was. (For adcoms the novelty has worn off.) It certainly isn't impressive if you do the classes but never find employment.
And if you are an EMT, please don't start your PS with something that sounds like a script from Rescue 911.
That is a major turn-off for adcoms.
And if you are an EMT, please don't start your PS with something that sounds like a script from Rescue 911.
That is a major turn-off for adcoms.
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Doh. I didn't make it melodramatic or anything (I don't think), but I did start off talking about my EMT experience. I hope it doesn't rub anyone the wrong way. I just figured it would be better than "I've wanted to be a doctor ever since I......."LizzyM said:And if you are an EMT, please don't start your PS with something that sounds like a script from Rescue 911.
Anyways, see if you can get sponsored for your EMT training rather than paying for it on your own. Saved me over $400 that way. Some private ambulance companies do a lot of 911 calls though - but a lot of them do a lot of transfers as well. Try to find out in advance.
What caused the big increase in pre-med EMTs? I'm the only one I know of (definitely the only one at my employer, which has 100+ employees) except on SDN. I actually got the idea from when I was considering joining the reserves and finding out that I could train as a medic.
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LizzyM said:More and more applicants are EMTs. After awhile, it isn't as impressive as it once was. (For adcoms the novelty has worn off.) It certainly isn't impressive if you do the classes but never find employment.
And if you are an EMT, please don't start your PS with something that sounds like a script from Rescue 911.
Uh oh - This is exactly what I did. I thought it captured perfectly who I am and why I want to go into medicine though, why would this be a turn-off?
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AxlxA said:
I think you are confusing EMT with Paramedic. EMT-Basic is not intensive. It is about 120 hours and the classwork is not difficult for someone used to college level classes. There is usually 10-20 hours of requires ED or EMS required as part of the course. Paramedic programs require approximately 1 year of coursework. Services require you to precept with an experienced medic before a hospital will grant you medical control.
Look into volunteer services in your area. Often they will pay your tuition in exchange for ride time.
Working/volunteering as an EMT is great fun. If you take the course make sure you have a plan to use the training.
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I was an EMT-IV-D for 5 years. That sort of clinical experience can give a sort of "stretcher-side manner" if you will. It is good experience to see what happens before the patient ever rolls through the E.R doors. The ability to see both sides of the coin may make you a more subjective doc.
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How exactly did you start it? I think LizzyM is referring to starting your PS like: "The radio barked out the call through the radio traffic. I lurched forward in my seat, straining my ears to make out every detail. The call came in as a 45 year-old man experiencing chest pain. Beads of sweat broke out on my forehead as I began mentally preparing myself..........."Flopotomist said:
At least I think that's what she means. I'm sure that it's not a guaranteed way to trash your application or anything, but I suppose it would get tiring to read 100 of those.
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g3pro said:
eh, volunteering as an EMT was better than any shadowing I ever did. I'm an EMT-I and volunteered weekly as a first responder for my undergrad and did ride outs with a 911 service.
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Believe me - I love the experience that I get as an EMT, but g3pro has a point. If someone is going to be a junior this fall, they will finish the course by Christmas, get certified by mid-January, and THEN they have to find a job. By the time their on-the-job training is done, it'll be March at least. They'll barely have anything to write about it on their AMCAS, which is partly the point of getting clinical experience - having enough EXPERIENCE to tell the adcom that you know something about medicine, and that makes you want it more. If they still want to get their EMT - more power to them.MadameLULU said:
I just know that it took me quite a while to land a job (and then lots of them were available at once
).
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TheProwler said:Believe me - I love the experience that I get as an EMT, but g3pro has a point. If someone is going to be a junior this fall, they will finish the course by Christmas, get certified by mid-January, and THEN they have to find a job. By the time their on-the-job training is done, it'll be March at least. They'll barely have anything to write about it on their AMCAS, which is partly the point of getting clinical experience - having enough EXPERIENCE to tell the adcom that you know something about medicine, and that makes you want it more. If they still want to get their EMT - more power to them.
I just know that it took me quite a while to land a job (and then lots of them were available at once
I see where you're coming from. Yeah, I guess if you get certified a couple months before applying there really is no point.
I got certified five years ago and volunteered actively until a year and a half ago, so I was an EMT for quite some time before applying to med school. My limited shadowing experiences pale in comparison to the cases I saw as an EMT
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TheProwler said:
Right. Or even worse, just a back & forth conversation
"What's happened to my mother?"
"We are trying to determine that, sir."
"When she didn't answer the phone, I came over here and found her on the floor. What's happening? What are you doing?"
I was deeply touched that this man put so much trust in me and I felt so helpless, unable to help his mother who was unresponsive and near death.
You can be sure that it gets old fast. Have mercy on the adcoms.
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I bet there have been some really cheesy "sirens screaming throught the night" essays.
I talked about riding as a volunteer with my Dad as a teenager. I have been in volunteer EMS for 20 yrs and it would have been ridiculous not to talk about it. No patient stories though...there are so many, how could I choose? I did mention that one of my talents was painting a 4 ft octopus on my daughter's bedroom wall.
I talked about riding as a volunteer with my Dad as a teenager. I have been in volunteer EMS for 20 yrs and it would have been ridiculous not to talk about it. No patient stories though...there are so many, how could I choose? I did mention that one of my talents was painting a 4 ft octopus on my daughter's bedroom wall.
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Yeah, probably based on the five patient contacts they had during the actual class.beanbean said:
I tried to use an interesting intro, but I don't think it was even long enough to be trite or overused.- Joined
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I got certified as an EMT through the National Registry shortly before my interview at UWash. I don't know how much it had to do with me being accepted, but the interviewers were interested and asked me a fair number of questions about it. I think it might give you a few advantages:
-You will have your pick of good answers at an interview when you are asked some form of the "Tell me about a patient that you have had contact with" question
-The class gave me a pretty good superficial view of what's going on in the human body and a lot of the common things that can go wrong. My pre-med classes were great, but I felt like most of what they had taught me were concepts as opposed to things I could directly apply to treating patients (ie. how the heart works and how nerves carry signals VS doing an EKG on someone in the ER and identifying ventricular fibrillation)
-The class is certainly no harder than the pre-med classes you have taken, pretty much regardless of who teaches it, so you won't end up spending more time on it than one of your pre-med classes where the grade really matters.
-Your hospital clinicals put you in the ER and you can really get your hands dirty if you show a willingness to help out and learn. I was in a pretty busy ER and as soon as I showed that I could be some help (as opposed to just some kid the nurses and doctors had to baby-sit) they put me right to work.
-Even as an EMT-Basic you can get a job as an ER Tech, which I think is probably some of the best clinical experience you can get as a pre-med student without other qualifications. I think it's a way to get the most responsibility with the least amount of training.
-Whether you end up working/volunteering on an ambulance or in the ER you learn how to talk to patients, take histories, reassure/calm down/deal with people who are often frightened or even combative.
-Most importantly, being an EMT gets you used to being in a position where you have a lot of responsibility but don't necessarily have the knowledge/training/power to be able to help every patient you meet. I think this is a an experience that we will all have in our third and fourth year clinicals, as well as internships. You even learn how to cope with having patients die. That's pretty serious stuff for someone who might not even be out of college yet.
-It can be frustrating in a good a motivating way. You know there things beyond your scope of care that your patients need and that you could provide that care if you had more training. I'm pretty sure that will provide good motivation in med school when things get rough and I find myself asking, "Why am I doing this?"
I took an EMT class during the fall of my glide year, after I had already submitted my AMCAS. I passed the National Registry Test right before my interview at UWash and started working with a private ambulance company doing transfers a week after I was accepted. This summer I'm working with a different private company doing 911 calls and I joined my local volunteer fire department. While having done all of this before I applied to medical school would have been a really good addition to the extra-curricular activities on my AMCAS application, it has gotten me excellent patient-care experience that I know will help me when I start med school this fall. I don't think I would have focused solely on it in my personal statement, but having it on my app would have shown another way that I had applied myself and sought out clinical experience. Granted, working in EMS might not be for everyone but I know it has been a great experience for me.
Oh, yeah, and I'd be lying if I said that dropping everything to jump in an ambulance and race down the road toward someone in need with lights and sirens blaring wasn't fun.
-You will have your pick of good answers at an interview when you are asked some form of the "Tell me about a patient that you have had contact with" question
-The class gave me a pretty good superficial view of what's going on in the human body and a lot of the common things that can go wrong. My pre-med classes were great, but I felt like most of what they had taught me were concepts as opposed to things I could directly apply to treating patients (ie. how the heart works and how nerves carry signals VS doing an EKG on someone in the ER and identifying ventricular fibrillation)
-The class is certainly no harder than the pre-med classes you have taken, pretty much regardless of who teaches it, so you won't end up spending more time on it than one of your pre-med classes where the grade really matters.
-Your hospital clinicals put you in the ER and you can really get your hands dirty if you show a willingness to help out and learn. I was in a pretty busy ER and as soon as I showed that I could be some help (as opposed to just some kid the nurses and doctors had to baby-sit) they put me right to work.
-Even as an EMT-Basic you can get a job as an ER Tech, which I think is probably some of the best clinical experience you can get as a pre-med student without other qualifications. I think it's a way to get the most responsibility with the least amount of training.
-Whether you end up working/volunteering on an ambulance or in the ER you learn how to talk to patients, take histories, reassure/calm down/deal with people who are often frightened or even combative.
-Most importantly, being an EMT gets you used to being in a position where you have a lot of responsibility but don't necessarily have the knowledge/training/power to be able to help every patient you meet. I think this is a an experience that we will all have in our third and fourth year clinicals, as well as internships. You even learn how to cope with having patients die. That's pretty serious stuff for someone who might not even be out of college yet.
-It can be frustrating in a good a motivating way. You know there things beyond your scope of care that your patients need and that you could provide that care if you had more training. I'm pretty sure that will provide good motivation in med school when things get rough and I find myself asking, "Why am I doing this?"
I took an EMT class during the fall of my glide year, after I had already submitted my AMCAS. I passed the National Registry Test right before my interview at UWash and started working with a private ambulance company doing transfers a week after I was accepted. This summer I'm working with a different private company doing 911 calls and I joined my local volunteer fire department. While having done all of this before I applied to medical school would have been a really good addition to the extra-curricular activities on my AMCAS application, it has gotten me excellent patient-care experience that I know will help me when I start med school this fall. I don't think I would have focused solely on it in my personal statement, but having it on my app would have shown another way that I had applied myself and sought out clinical experience. Granted, working in EMS might not be for everyone but I know it has been a great experience for me.
Oh, yeah, and I'd be lying if I said that dropping everything to jump in an ambulance and race down the road toward someone in need with lights and sirens blaring wasn't fun.
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g3pro said:
Terrible idea.
Volunteering is for suckers. You were some lame pastel colored vest and pass out warm blankets with lonely retirees and other premeds looking to pad their applications, and get paid 0.
Your average EMT course teaches you cool stuff, is relatively cheap at a community college, and can be done in a summer.
But. working on a BLS Ambulance is also for suckers. You will be driving non emergent patients from one hospital to the other, or from the hospital to the convalescent home. Its better than volunteering only in that you wear a cool uniform and at least make 7 bucks an hour.
Working as an ER Tech is the golden ticket. You get much better patient exposure than even paramedics (although you dont get to start IVs or give meds like them), you learn a lot more about medicine than anyone on an ambulance, you get paid more than ambulance drivers and paramedics, and you become friends with Docs who will write you great letters of rec. Also scrubs are a lot more comfortable, if not as a cool looking, as an Ambulance jumpsuit.
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Dr..Dr...Dr.. said:
I don't think its a terrible idea... While there is a ton of experience you can get as ab ER tech, there are plenty of experiences you can get voluteering that you could not get in an ED. Just as an example, I volunteer for my school EMS squad, and we are always first on scene regardless of how severe the call is. So during those first few minutes you have 100% responsibility for the medical care of this patient, as opposed to just traking orders from more experienced professionals. Its a different experience that I find very valuable.
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Does anyone else work as an EMT for their school?
I was thinking about doing this since it would be very convenient for me in terms of location. However, how much do you actually get to do? I would think most of your time would be spent just waiting for something to happen. My school also has EMTs staffing the fitness center. That would be very convenient for me, but I can't imagine you'd get much experience doing that or that it would be very impressive to adcoms.
Anyone want to share their thoughts about working for your school as an EMT?
I was thinking about doing this since it would be very convenient for me in terms of location. However, how much do you actually get to do? I would think most of your time would be spent just waiting for something to happen. My school also has EMTs staffing the fitness center. That would be very convenient for me, but I can't imagine you'd get much experience doing that or that it would be very impressive to adcoms.
Anyone want to share their thoughts about working for your school as an EMT?
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Dr..Dr...Dr.. said:
As long as you understand the thought processes that go into medical decisions, you'll be fine. Personally, I think patient-contact is secondary to that. I mean, having lots of patient contact would prepare you better for nursing, no?
It sounds sooo corny and so cliched, I really feel sorry for the author who would put something like that in their PS. When I read this, I get this awkward feeling of pity and amazement that someone could think that was an impressive introduction to the personal statement (I know it's not real, but I just know that people out there try it all the time).
HAVE MERCY ON THE ADCOMS!
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Dr...Dr...Dr..., I think you underestimate what EMTs, specifically volunteer EMTs, can do. I suppose it depends on where you are, but I have yet to find any volunteer agency that just hands out blankets or wears pastel colored vests. Perhaps you are thinking of the Red Cross? Many small communities depend on volunteer EMTs to arrive at the scene and stabilize the patient before transferring them to definitive care. I may be biased because I've been volunteering for several years, but at all my interviews, my experience volunteering with my squad at home has been brought up and we spent a great amount of time talking about it.
I am not knocking being an ED tech either because I am sure that will make a great experience as well. However, where I am from, the ED techs don't really do anything that's different than what an EMT would do--taking histories, vitals, etc. The one difference I see is that being an EMT you get a different perspective on patient care. You will get to see how the prehospital world works before you transfer the patient to a doctor. Maybe this will be completely useless information for some people, but for others, like those interested in emergency medicine, perhaps, I feel it would help make one more open-minded and perhaps a better doctor.
Pineapplegirl, volunteering with your school's squad could be a good experience. Keep in mind though that the type of calls you see will be skewed towards a campus population, i.e. you may be getting lots of calls for drunks and minor soft tissue injuries from sports or something, as opposed to getting "cool" calls for motor vehicle collisions or other things of that sort.
I am not knocking being an ED tech either because I am sure that will make a great experience as well. However, where I am from, the ED techs don't really do anything that's different than what an EMT would do--taking histories, vitals, etc. The one difference I see is that being an EMT you get a different perspective on patient care. You will get to see how the prehospital world works before you transfer the patient to a doctor. Maybe this will be completely useless information for some people, but for others, like those interested in emergency medicine, perhaps, I feel it would help make one more open-minded and perhaps a better doctor.
Pineapplegirl, volunteering with your school's squad could be a good experience. Keep in mind though that the type of calls you see will be skewed towards a campus population, i.e. you may be getting lots of calls for drunks and minor soft tissue injuries from sports or something, as opposed to getting "cool" calls for motor vehicle collisions or other things of that sort.
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I second the comment about serving a college population. I definitely saw a disproportionate ammount of drunk and sports injury calls. Occasionally there would be respiratotory distress or seisures, but not many. I would have liked to volunteer for the local township squad, but I just did not have the time. I'm happy with my campus squad since it has a balance between convenience and experience.
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I worked for my campus EMS squad, and it was pretty fun. I would imagine that it could also suck pretty badly if your squad is mostly obnoxious premeds, but we managed to weed most of those kids out. You meet people, have a good time, and get to do something nice for your fellow students. Just don't expect them to love you for it - every drunk freshman you take to the ER will curse you and your mother.
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naimist said:
Actually, i was responding to g3pro's advice to volunteer INSTEAD of becoming an EMT. It doesnt take long at all to do the course, its fairly cheap ( I earn the cost of the course working 3-4 shifts) and the material is very practical and interesting. When youre done you have the option of volunteering with EMS, working as an EMT, or being an ER Tech. Im not sure if you can volunteer with EMS without being an EMT, but if your gonna do that, you might as well go all the way and get certified so you have more options / ability to make money.
Also g3pro
"As long as you understand the thought processes that go into medical decisions, you'll be fine. Personally, I think patient-contact is secondary to that. I mean, having lots of patient contact would prepare you better for nursing, no?"
Thats ridiculous. Doctors cant make good medical decision without learning the art of connecting with patients. Two people with the exact same disease may present in completely different ways because of cultural differences, fears, age, etc... Good doctors learn how to tailor their skills to their individual patients in order to filter out the important facts and make the right decisions. Also, theres a lot more to medicine than making medical decisions: ie ability to instill trust in a patient, the ability to obtain a comprehensive history, and the ability to ensure a patient understands what is wrong with them and what they need to do to get better. These are all incredibly important skills which can only be mastered through hours of patient contact. Medical schools seem to agree. Most schools have added courses, sometimes spanning the entire first year, in which students spend time interviewing patients and their families in order to learn the psycho/social components of illness.
I cant believe I just wasted the last 10 minutes trying to explain all of this, you either get it or you dont, i would have let it go if it werent for g3pros obnoxious claim of always being right.
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beanbean said:I bet there have been some really cheesy "sirens screaming throught the night" essays.
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I did try for an ER tech job, because I wanted the in-hospital experience, but you're way over-generalizing about the BLS rigs. Two of my employer's competitors do mostly transports with the BLS rigs, but my employer runs a lot more 911 calls than transports, which are definitely a lot more fun.Dr..Dr...Dr.. said:
dnickers said:
I love that. I work in the inner city, and we get to run red lights like they're going out of style.- Joined
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I run with a rural EMS agency, and even as an EMT-B, due to the lack of staffing, you see a lot. (ie I am on almost every call we get) We have a lot of ALS calls, and as the "B" you are pretty much right in the thick of things more than you would imagine. If you have time, I would seek running with rural or smaller agencies, as I feel that this will give you the best experience with EMS (PM me fore an explanation on that last sentance)
In terms of your application, it is one of those things that can enhance, but won't make or break you, especially for allopathic schools. With good grades and MCATs along with research, than EMS would certainly look pretty good and show some dedication to medicine (not to mention a great place for recommondations). With mediocre test scores/grades, EMS isn't going to be very impressive or influential. DO schools will tend to put more weight on the patient care experiences rather than the research experiences, so that is something to consider. Overall however, do EMS/Tech work if you really feel like you will personally enjoy it. I would never recommend doing something mostly for padding an application, as any admissions officer worth their salt will see right thought it. My 2 cents:-D
In terms of your application, it is one of those things that can enhance, but won't make or break you, especially for allopathic schools. With good grades and MCATs along with research, than EMS would certainly look pretty good and show some dedication to medicine (not to mention a great place for recommondations). With mediocre test scores/grades, EMS isn't going to be very impressive or influential. DO schools will tend to put more weight on the patient care experiences rather than the research experiences, so that is something to consider. Overall however, do EMS/Tech work if you really feel like you will personally enjoy it. I would never recommend doing something mostly for padding an application, as any admissions officer worth their salt will see right thought it. My 2 cents:-D
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Dr..Dr...Dr.. said:
ADCOMs don't want to see you doing formal medical education in communicating with patients. That's not the point of "clinical experience," but rather the point is to understand what medicine is all about, the thought processes that physicians go through, the work that is put into it. You're talking about things that you would do in medical school or residency "Doctors cant make good medical decision without learning the art of connecting with patients." Why the hell would you even be concerned about this at this point in your life? You don't even know if you want to go into medicine for sure. And that's why you want to volunteer or shadow in a clinical setting: to figure out whether it's for you.
In other words, you're wrong, and I'm right.
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To the OP:
Basically, you should get your EMT if you truly think you will be able to use it. Not only will it help you a bit in medical school, but the experiences that you can get are exceedingly beneficial. For example, I was able to shine in my "How to Interview" class in first year b/c I didn't have any fear when talking to patients. Most people didn't know where to begin, while I found it very easy to ask "So, why are you in the hospital". That question is easily a no-brainer for someone with experience, but surprisingly it is difficult for a person to come up with on their own.
But, I should warn you not to just get your EMT to put it as a means to impress adcomms. They will be impressed by your experiences that you have after you get the certification, not just having the title.
If you go ahead and get your EMT, I suggest finding a way to get lots of experience without comprimising your grades. Clearly, the first thing adcomms will look at are you grades and MCAT. After that, they will look at other things you've done. I highly suggest you find a way to volunteer on an ambulance squad that handles 911 emergencies, whether it is a local community squad or your college squad. Obviously, college squads usually only handle the college campus, and therefore the population is usually quite healthy. So, don't expect to get lots of practice using the defib in that environment. Also, it will count as volunteerism, which in my mind is slightly better (makes you a better person??) than getting paid to do it (unless you need it for the money, in which case then getting paid is definetely NOT looked down upon).
If you find that you dont' have the time in college to become an EMT, then do what you can to get patient contact. It is more important to have patient contact, in some meaningful way, than you can ever imagine. The last thing a med school wants to do is accept someone who has no idea what it is like dealing with patients, only to find themselves not enjoying medicine and dropping out. That wastes money that the school has spent on the person, and it prevents someone else from having that spot.
Good luck!
Basically, you should get your EMT if you truly think you will be able to use it. Not only will it help you a bit in medical school, but the experiences that you can get are exceedingly beneficial. For example, I was able to shine in my "How to Interview" class in first year b/c I didn't have any fear when talking to patients. Most people didn't know where to begin, while I found it very easy to ask "So, why are you in the hospital". That question is easily a no-brainer for someone with experience, but surprisingly it is difficult for a person to come up with on their own.
But, I should warn you not to just get your EMT to put it as a means to impress adcomms. They will be impressed by your experiences that you have after you get the certification, not just having the title.
If you go ahead and get your EMT, I suggest finding a way to get lots of experience without comprimising your grades. Clearly, the first thing adcomms will look at are you grades and MCAT. After that, they will look at other things you've done. I highly suggest you find a way to volunteer on an ambulance squad that handles 911 emergencies, whether it is a local community squad or your college squad. Obviously, college squads usually only handle the college campus, and therefore the population is usually quite healthy. So, don't expect to get lots of practice using the defib in that environment. Also, it will count as volunteerism, which in my mind is slightly better (makes you a better person??) than getting paid to do it (unless you need it for the money, in which case then getting paid is definetely NOT looked down upon).
If you find that you dont' have the time in college to become an EMT, then do what you can to get patient contact. It is more important to have patient contact, in some meaningful way, than you can ever imagine. The last thing a med school wants to do is accept someone who has no idea what it is like dealing with patients, only to find themselves not enjoying medicine and dropping out. That wastes money that the school has spent on the person, and it prevents someone else from having that spot.
Good luck!
