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I'm in the process of applying. My boss advised me to stay away from the weed out schools. What is a weed out school?
peacebro said:I'm in the process of applying. My boss advised me to stay away from the weed out schools. What is a weed out school?
A weed out school is one that accepts alot of students and then fails them out . SOUTHERN AND NOVA WERE SUCH SCHOOLS ABOUT 7 YEARS AGO DO NOT KNOW ABOUT NOW BUT EASY ENOUGH TO FIND OUTpeacebro said:I'm in the process of applying. My boss advised me to stay away from the weed out schools. What is a weed out school?
HOLLYWOOD said:A weed out school is one that accepts alot of students and then fails them out . SOUTHERN AND NOVA WERE SUCH SCHOOLS ABOUT 7 YEARS AGO DO NOT KNOW ABOUT NOW BUT EASY ENOUGH TO FIND OUT
peacebro said:I'm in the process of applying. My boss advised me to stay away from the weed out schools. What is a weed out school?
What were those reasons?ucbsowarrior said:I've seen people with b+ to a- averages, with passing grades in all courses get removed from programs - for reasons that i didn't think were valid.
peacebro said:Thank you for the heads up. My boss has told me which schools he thinks weed out. No need to list them. I wanted to verify with other people in optometry. Looking at the incoming class number and the graduating number of the same class should speak for itself. One school a few years ago accepted 168 entering students and graduated 130 in 4 years later. This should say something about this school. Appreciate eveyone's view on the subject.
xmattODx said:Or should it say something about those 38 students?
gsinccom said:list them or Pm me too. suprises me that SCO is/was considered a weed out school....hmm...
keep in mind that accepted and matriculated are two different things...you should be looking at the matriculated/graduation rate!
rpie said:A Male student that asked all his female patients to allow him to measure their breast nipples in order to get the correct diameter for their contact lens
rpie said:A Male student that asked all his female patients to allow him to measure their breast nipples in order to get the correct diameter for their contact lens, and a student that threatened the life of a staff doc.
rpie said:Yep Matt, unfortunately this did happened at SCCO in the early 80s when I was a 1st year. People that heard about including myself, it though it was a joke or rumor. It wasnt until I started teaching that I found out it was for real.
wow..so like what did they do with the data. Just curious..i mean maybe they should run some stats on the corralation between nipple size and contact diameter..but of coarse you shouldn't exclude men from the study. I'm just asking..that's. all. Could you imagine that on the cover of Review of Optometry...too funny (j/k)xmattODx said:You're kidding right?
rpie said:Yep Matt, unfortunately this did happened at SCCO in the early 80s when I was a 1st year. People that heard about including myself, it though it was a joke or rumor. It wasnt until I started teaching that I found out it was for real. I really dont know what happened because, as you all know how it is when youre a 1st year all you care about is making sure your going to pass the next quiz. Hearing a story about some horny 4th year that got his ass kicked out for checking out his patients boobs may be interesting and some ways funny but not as important keeping your mind on studying for an optics or visual science test. How did they get to the 4th year? Well, as a former educator, there is Doctor complex that forms in some people when they reach the 4th year and escalates as they get close to graduation. I have experience some of the most nicest and humble students become arrogant and pompous by their last rotation. Just make sure the "complex" does not get to all you students because that's the quickest way to get on the a black list of all the clinical instructors! Staff Docs do talk about their good and bad students...
OPII I like your picture ..lol
ucbsowarrior said:more often than not you'll see certain staff docs either bullying students and using a blantant abuse of power. i've seen many students suffer at the abuse of some staff docs. i've even seen cases of physical abuse on one student. i asked the student why they didn't bring the issue up with their school or the athorities as there were witnesses. the student told me that they didn't want to cause 'trouble' and just wanted to graduate.
ucbsowarrior said:As to a student threatening a staff docs life - i think the likelihood of that happening is similar to the probability of a staff doc threatening a student's life. i have heard of cases where a student's career was almost wrecked because some staff doc wanted to fail them for reasons that are not related to clinical or behaviour issues. this student did threaten a staff doc (i think the student should've sought counsel instead of making comments that could further jepardise their career). some staff docs make up stories to cover up their own tracks (very evil)
more often than not you'll see certain staff docs either bullying students and using a blantant abuse of power. i've seen many students suffer at the abuse of some staff docs. i've even seen one case of physical abuse on one student. i asked the student why they didn't bring the issue up with their school or the athorities as there were witnesses. the student told me that they didn't want to cause 'trouble' and just wanted to graduate.
ucbsowarrior said:Homes,
let's get one thing straight - the weed out schools are still out there. they just aren't as aggressive as in the past. applications for od schools were on the decline a few yrs ago, not sure about the current numbers. back to the question - weed out schools are there and some ppl get removed for valid reasons and some get removed for non-valid reasons (someone on the admin or faculty has it out for them). it's really sad but i've seen over a dozen cases of this happening.
i have a pretty good idea which are the weed out schools, but you'll have to do your own research on this one.
some places just make students repeat a year....not so bad, except for the fact that you'll feel like a piece of crap, may go through sub-clinical depression and lose about 75-100k in lost income....other than that it ain't so bad!
grades: don't think that if you have good grades you can't be eliminated! I've seen people with b+ to a- averages, with passing grades in all courses get removed from programs - for reasons that i didn't think were valid.
i want to share a little with all you potential ods. there was a student name polly who was an od student. she was held back two years (so he did approx. 6 years of od school) and then her school removed her from her program a few months prior to her graduation. if you did a cold case on her, you'd realise that she was removed for invalid reasons. this is not a fictional story, this is a true story. i knew 'polly' and all i can say is that she is brighter and smarter than 75% of the people on this board. 'polly' pulled it together and went on to become a dentist - but she wasted plenty of time dealing with a couple of a-hole faculty members.
for those brave enough, go and ask a veterned dean in their school if they knew of a case where a student was abused or treated unfairly by the faculty / administration? if they say 'no' ask them if they would swear to this in court? i rest my case.
life's like a lottery system
sometimes you win
but you usually lose
all the best!@
ps. peacebro...better lisiten to your boss!
rpie said:Originally Posted by rpie
Yep Matt, unfortunately this did happened at SCCO in the early 80s when I was a 1st year. People that heard about including myself, it though it was a joke or rumor. It wasnt until I started teaching that I found out it was for real. I really dont know what happened because, as you all know how it is when youre a 1st year all you care about is making sure your going to pass the next quiz. Hearing a story about some horny 4th year that got his ass kicked out for checking out his patients boobs may be interesting and some ways funny but not as important keeping your mind on studying for an optics or visual science test. How did they get to the 4th year? Well, as a former educator, there is Doctor complex that forms in some people when they reach the 4th year and escalates as they get close to graduation. I have experience some of the most nicest and humble students become arrogant and pompous by their last rotation. Just make sure the "complex" does not get to all you students because that's the quickest way to get on the a black list of all the clinical instructors! Staff Docs do talk about their good and bad students...
OPII I like your picture ..lol
ucbsowarrior said:maybe this student was confused when the prof was teaching the keratoconus section. he must of confused 'nipple' cone for keratoconus for breast nipples It's really an honest mistake. Anyone could've confused the two!
OR maybe he was looking for the 'Munson' sign. Buldges on downgaze
my final tought for the night is....what k readings did he get? 36C?
All honesty aside, these sound like crazy stories, but there are many cases where students didn't deserve to be removed from the program. They didn't committ any serious wrong doings. Someone just had it in for them.
As to a student threatening a staff docs life - i think the likelihood of that happening is similar to the probability of a staff doc threatening a student's life. i have heard of cases where a student's career was almost wrecked because some staff doc wanted to fail them for reasons that are not related to clinical or behaviour issues. this student did threaten a staff doc (i think the student should've sought counsel instead of making comments that could further jepardise their career). some staff docs make up stories to cover up their own tracks (very evil)
more often than not you'll see certain staff docs either bullying students and using a blantant abuse of power. i've seen many students suffer at the abuse of some staff docs. i've even seen one case of physical abuse on one student. i asked the student why they didn't bring the issue up with their school or the athorities as there were witnesses. the student told me that they didn't want to cause 'trouble' and just wanted to graduate.
i've even seen cases where there are two staff docs overlook a clinic - staff doc A tries to convince staff doc B to fail a student when there is no valid reason. in such situations i've witness staff doc B stand up for the student, and in other instances i've seen staff doc B go along with staff doc A. it's all quite sad and disgusting.
as one can see there is often a power disparity in student and staff doctor relationships. when there is abuse, i'm sure that only a very low percentage of such cases get reported. this would be quite similar to child abuse cases, very few of those cases get reported....it's all quite sad, but this is a dark side that some students may need to face.
The flip side is when a student that is poor in many aspects - academic - clinical - social - but has a parent, relative or knows someone in the administration that has some pull at the school....and they make it through the program due to their connections. is this story a fabrication of my imagination? nope, i've seen it happen on more than three occassions and i'm sure it happens all the time.
my post seems quite negative, but i just want to mention that the majority of staff docs and faculty that me and my friends have met have been great people, mentors and optometrists....unfortunately there's always a couple of bad apples out there (that goes for docs and students)
later!
3eb4me said:I don't know if I should feel sympathetic or angry at this student. If it's true and he/she didn't report, he is just as guilty for not standing up to it. How can we have an someone who would take abuse and be part of this profession? Those witnesses were also responsible. We can't put the future of optometry in these people's hands. So when LUX starts assimilating every thing in town, his response would be "I didn't want to cause trouble, just wanted to retire." We need more Rosa Parks.
rpie said:OPII, the clinical director, and the director of outreach clinics (or your schools equivalent) are there to discuss your concerns. If no help is found there the dean and president should be accessible. The mistreatment of students is always taken seriously.
rpie said:UCBSO, I can see your passion for the rights and fair treatment of students, and admire that. What I am doing is giving an insight from the administration side because there is always 2 sides, and both cannot disclose all the facts sounding dismissals because of legal implications. Bad staff docs are always a concern of schools, and admit that there will always be a stinker in the crowd but they usually will not last long because all students are asked to evaluate their attending staff docs. I agree that constant miss treatment can evoke a person to threaten the staff, but before that happens you should be talking to the clinical director, dean etc. What everyone need to realize is that dismissing a student is not easy even if there is just cause. There has to be a full investigation and agreement by the president, dean, clinic director and the investigation committee to dismiss a student. The one I know of I cannot go into details but can say that it had to do with a student and his relative. A disagreed with the staffs recommendation to refer his relative for neurological evaluation caused the referral to be delayed and resulted with an unfortunate outcome. Ironically the student blamed the staff for not being forceful enough.
OPII, the clinical director, and the director of outreach clinics (or your schools equivalent) are there to discuss your concerns. If no help is found there the dean and president should be accessible. The mistreatment of students is always taken seriously.