Got into both DO and MD and took the DO path?

priu said:

I have acceptance to my in state MD program (from what I've seen/heard, it is definitely a good program), but am still considering DO schools and do have some time to decide on my MD acceptance. My parent, an allopathic physician, is rather negative about the direction I'm going in... she says that the MD students who rotate in her department have had better knowledge than DO students. Perhaps it may be somewhat true, perhaps it's biased. I don't know. What I'd like to get out of creating this thread is perhaps DO students - those in MS1,2,3,4, residents, and perhaps fully trained docs - that went DO over an MD and are satisfied with their path. I would like to hear others' experiences, I have geniune interest in the DO approach and more specifically OMM. And please no rude comments, as we all have our biases. Besides, I'm hoping to show some responses in order to hopefully change a few minds!

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I can't speak directly to what you're looking for, but I will note that graduating with an MD keeps all of your doors open down the road. Graduating with a DO does not. Whether it is fair or not, DOs will have a hard uphill battle to secure spots in certain residencies. Even if you are certain you want to do primary care (I had some in my med school class who were certain of this and ended up doing hard-core subspecialties), I'd still go the MD route.

priu said:

I have acceptance to my in state MD program (from what I've seen/heard, it is definitely a good program), but am still considering DO schools and do have some time to decide on my MD acceptance. My parent, an allopathic physician, is rather negative about the direction I'm going in... she says that the MD students who rotate in her department have had better knowledge than DO students. Perhaps it may be somewhat true, perhaps it's biased. I don't know. What I'd like to get out of creating this thread is perhaps DO students - those in MS1,2,3,4, residents, and perhaps fully trained docs - that went DO over an MD and are satisfied with their path. I would like to hear others' experiences, I have geniune interest in the DO approach and more specifically OMM. And please no rude comments, as we all have our biases. Besides, I'm hoping to show some responses in order to hopefully change a few minds!

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I chose a DO school over MD acceptances because of 2 things - a PBL curriculum which I really wanted, and the location (in my hometown). My reasons therefore had nothing to do with the school being osteopathic - at the time I was so excited about the PBL and location that I didn't even think much about DO vs MD. I am satisfied with my decision in that I really enjoy the PBL program and am extremely happy being where I am - now that I am thinking about residencies, though, it would be nice to have the unlimited opportunities afforded to MD students. As far as the education itself - I think my knowledge base in the basic sciences is equivalent to those of students at my level in allopathic schools, and my knowledge base in clinical aspects of medicine is probably superior to most because the PBL curriculum emphasizes that. I don't think you can generalize though, it's probably quite school-specific and, more importantly, student-specific.
Basically, my advice (and the advice I have given to friends and family planning on applying for medical school) is this: if you think you want to do any surgery, ophthalmology, or radiation oncology, by all means go to an allopathic school. In addition, if you think you would like IM subspecialties (gi, cardio, gi, endo, heme/onc, rheumo, ID) I would suggest going to an MD school, although it's much less vital in those cases. If you don't plan on going into surg, ophtho, or rad onc, and there is something drawing you to a specific DO school (PBL, overwhelming attraction to its location, etc), then go for it. Otherwise, go MD and make things easier for yourself. In addition, think about $$$ - an DO education will cost you a couple hundred grand, whereas your state MD school will be much less. That is a big important factor.

Oh, and OMM - for me it's a pain in the ass.

priu said:

I have acceptance to my in state MD program (from what I've seen/heard, it is definitely a good program), but am still considering DO schools and do have some time to decide on my MD acceptance. My parent, an allopathic physician, is rather negative about the direction I'm going in... she says that the MD students who rotate in her department have had better knowledge than DO students. Perhaps it may be somewhat true, perhaps it's biased. I don't know. What I'd like to get out of creating this thread is perhaps DO students - those in MS1,2,3,4, residents, and perhaps fully trained docs - that went DO over an MD and are satisfied with their path. I would like to hear others' experiences, I have geniune interest in the DO approach and more specifically OMM. And please no rude comments, as we all have our biases. Besides, I'm hoping to show some responses in order to hopefully change a few minds!

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I am obviously bias because I am MD, but I have considered this question myself and have come up with these

Several things to consider:
1. Many DO programs don't offer the same kind of exposures in clinical years and especially residencies as MD programs do. (DO hospitals are generally small)
2. You will have to spend the rest of your life explaining to people what a DO is.
3. Their is a definate bias againt DO's in many medical institutions.
4. OMM is a very very small part of medicine overall.
5. You can always learn OMM on the side.
6. DO school are generally easier to get into and therefore do not attract as strong of colleagues as most MD programs (acedemically)(this obviously depends on the MD program but most would have to agree that the best DO schools are nowhere near as competative as the best MD programs)
7. You cannot practice in all specialities (I'm not exactly sure about this one but am pretty sure Path and Radiation Therapy are MD only- someone else please comment on this)

Major pro's of DO:
1. OMM
2. Osteopathic women are generally better looking
3. Testing is easier. I go to program with shared 1st year classes, MD and DO, and pass grade is lower for DO class. Don't know personally if COMPLEX is easier than USMLE.
4. General public seems to latch onto OMM and many will swear by it giving you an excellent marketing advantage over many MD's.

priu said:

Thank you all for your responses. I do have the option of an instate DO school if I get accepted (can't be cocky!). My interest is in PMR, but I think I might be attracted to technology (as in perhaps ophto or interventional radiology/cardiology). There are AOA interventional cardiology (from what I've heard, it's somewhat like playing a very advanced video gaming) residencies on the AOA opportunities page, but that's a different topic. I'd hate for this thread to become either:

1) only about me me me
2) degenerating into nothingness (fingers crossed Taus)

I do plan on travelling and finding out about PMR by shadowing docs and perhaps if I get the time and possibility I will try to shadow at one of these AOA residencies... and I will post my thoughts over time so that I'd hopefully avoid 1 if possible, and assuming this thread doesn't get locked from flaming (the previous posts have been 'good' posts).

Thank you.

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Keep in mind the by far, the majority of people don't end up doing exactly what they thought they wanted to do when they started. I thought I wanted to be FP when I started and now realize that it is not for me. Many, many people have similar stories. Don't forget that you are still young (at least likely) and that your interests and ideals are still transforming. You might think you have it all figured out but think back 5 years ago and forward to now. How much have you changed in the past 5 years! You will change throughout medical school too!

priu said:

DO students - those in MS1,2,3,4, residents, and perhaps fully trained docs - that went DO over an MD and are satisfied with their path. I would like to hear others' experiences, I have geniune interest in the DO approach and more specifically OMM. And please no rude comments, as we all have our biases. Besides, I'm hoping to show some responses in order to hopefully change a few minds!

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I was accepted to both of my states programs, 1 MD 1 DO, and I'm now a 3rd year in an osteopathic program. Do your research about the quality of both programs and go with the one that will offer the better education on the important material, I use and think OMM has it's place, but core medicine education is what is important as a physician.

I agree... go where you personally will get the best education, DO or MD. that's the first and most important question to ask yourself. it's your money and your education, spend it wisely... Next comes money, if the MD and DO schools are exactly the same in quality and the MD school is a lot cheaper, go with the MD school, i think a large portion of people would agree. the final thing you should consider, everything else being equal, is whether you think you'd like to do OMM someday (even that is changing with CMEs) and what speciality do you want to go into (I too will agree with the fact that some residencies and specialties are just plain harder to get into as a DO, that's neither right nor wrong, but it's the way it is. It's not really any different than an MD from a "low tier" allopathic school will probably limit you when compared to a high end allopathic school MD degree). good for you for thinking about this in a constructive way. this thread is looking good so far... lets see how long it keeps like this before it turns into another MD/DO bash fest...

It really depends on the school. I can speculate that my education at a southern California Osteopathic school is more likely to be better than an allopathic education in no-mans-land North Dakota, but I have no evidence for that. Location matters (not just for sunny weather, nice beaches) because that will determine where you are going to rotate during 3rd and 4th year.

In COMP, I get to rotate through some medical centers that see a lot of varied pathology and trauma. Take Arrowhead regional for example... When we rotate out there, we are rotating right along side MS3s and MS4s from UCLA, USC, and other big highly competitive schools. That has to mean something.

As far as what you have been told about allopathic med students appearing more knowledgable in rotations than osteopathic med students, I think that is a pretty bad stereotype. Statistically, MCAT scores were higher for enter MD students than DO students. Does this predict the overall intelligence of the medical student? Nope. Sit me down with a room full of MS2s at UCLA and have us shoot the sh_t about transfusion medicine, heart failure, or lupus, and I am sure that we will all know about the same.

I am starting to get annoyed at people downplaying OMM as being such a small, insignificant part of medicine as a whole. Being a DO is not all about OMM, its about being an Osteopathic physician. We as DOs receive about 3 hours a week of OMM classes FOR TWO YEARS, plus an OMM rotation. We graduate with a strong knowledge of hands on physical diagnosis of musculoskeletal dysfunctions. This makes the DO very efficient in the clinic setting when musculoskeletal problems present, which can only be an advantage.

The ONLY problem I have with my profession is not actually with my profession, rather its with the old ignorant physicians that are biased against D.O.s for some reason. I feel that in time this will continue to become less and less of an issue. I do not mind explaining to people what a DO is from time to time, but it can get annoying. It sure would help if our designator was "MD, DO" or "DO, MD" or "MD (DO)" or something like that to clear up much of the confusion.

Ok, rant over... Good luck with your choice! It really depends on your personal preferences in the end.

SquidDoc said:

I can speculate that my education at a southern California Osteopathic school is more likely to be better than an allopathic education in no-mans-land North Dakota, but I have no evidence for that.

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that's only speculation and hardly a substantial one, for example Dr. E. Goljan teaches in Oklahoma and somehow I fail to see how that would be less of an education than yours, and even I have a hard time seeing Oklahoma as being less of a no-mans-land than North Dakota. Other examples like that abound, a recent one I heard was DCA Inc. in Cushing Oklahoma, not to mention fortune 500 companies that reside in these piss ant towns too. not everyone likes the coasts or even likes metropolitan areas,

it's arrogant to have an intellectual elitism about places that don't reside on a coast........

med99 said:

Major pro's of DO:
1. OMM
2. Osteopathic women are generally better looking
3. Testing is easier. I go to program with shared 1st year classes, MD and DO, and pass grade is lower for DO class. Don't know personally if COMPLEX is easier than USMLE.
4. General public seems to latch onto OMM and many will swear by it giving you an excellent marketing advantage over many MD's.

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Has no one read this post? Am I the only one who seems to think that this situation where the DOs have a lower standard for passing a class is odd? I cerntainly hope my school isn't giving me an inferior education because it's DO and they have felt sorry for me and thus lowered the requirements to pass.

I dont know for sure about COMLEX and USMLE differences except for the students I know at my school that have take both seem to do either about the same on both tests or better on the USMLE.

Hernandez said:

that's only speculation and hardly a substantial one, for example Dr. E. Goljan teaches in Oklahoma and somehow I fail to see how that would be less of an education than yours, and even I have a hard time seeing Oklahoma as being less of a no-mans-land than North Dakota. Other examples like that abound, a recent one I heard was DCA Inc. in Cushing Oklahoma, not to mention fortune 500 companies that reside in these piss ant towns too. not everyone likes the coasts or even likes metropolitan areas,

it's arrogant to have an intellectual elitism about places that don't reside on a coast........

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I noted that I was only speculating, and that was based on ROTATIONS. You cannot tell me that a medical student rotating through less diverse, rural areas ONLY will get as good of an education as someone who gets to see a lot more in both large and smaller hospitals.

I never said anything about Oklahoma, and I love Dr. Goljan. I think we both know that I thought of a state with a low population density to make a point of rotations playing a big role in your preparation as a physician. If I knew it would offend you to the point of name calling, I would have refrained from the comment. Sorry about that. (virtual hug)

There is nothing wrong with small towns either...I grew up in a town of less than 1000 people with 1 doctor in it. Someday I may retire there

Hernandez said:

that's only speculation and hardly a substantial one, for example Dr. E. Goljan teaches in Oklahoma and somehow I fail to see how that would be less of an education than yours, and even I have a hard time seeing Oklahoma as being less of a no-mans-land than North Dakota. Other examples like that abound, a recent one I heard was DCA Inc. in Cushing Oklahoma, not to mention fortune 500 companies that reside in these piss ant towns too. not everyone likes the coasts or even likes metropolitan areas,

it's arrogant to have an intellectual elitism about places that don't reside on a coast........

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bleh, cushing. this is probably something i shouldn't bring up at my osucom interview, but there's no way in hell i'll practice in a place like cushing. i shadowed in cushing, and you do see a somewhat more limited pathology than you'd see elsewhere. admittedly, you see a lot of meth addicts and old white ladies, but i did not see a single non-white person in that whole town. i think there are definite advantages to doing your rotations in larger areas.

plus, you gotta love the jesus (and tell everyone that you love the jesus) if you want to be successful in that town.

as for the original question, i might choose a do school over an md school. if i get into ohsu, i'm probably going to go there, but other than that, i'm going do. my numbers are competitive, and if i applied widely and all that good stuff, i probably would get an allopathic acceptance even if ohsu didn't pan out.

FS-Pro said:

Why does this matter?

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Not sure. I was wondering about this myself.

I agree with earlier post, there are a few things that may matter more than just philosophy. For me the location and the PBL route were the most important factor. After I visited my school for the first time, and after an early acceptance soon after, I decided to stop my allopathic application because I was so happy with the location and school. I was however left with a decision to go to optomerty school vs DO schools and that was a very tough decision for me.

You may want to do a little comparison list of what is important to you and then rate the colleges accordingly. This is what I finally had to do and it helped me sort out my priorities. You can surely find a decision analysis online somewhere, there are alot of good ones.

And lastely, I do think the "not a single black person.." can matter. Diversity is an important part of where you live. I know in Erie I underestimated that aspect and we kinda of miss that. It hasn't caused any problems, but we have to travel 2 hours to get to an interesting restuarant.

Anyways good luck
When all else fails- procrastinate!
j-lecom

Before you drop an allopathic acceptance to go to a DO school (which I think is a bad idea) you really ought to spend some time in the DO forum looking at the posts that are critical of the AOA and its relationship with students. I wish I had know about the level of antagonism between the students and AOA when I applied. The osteopathic educational model is in a state of extreme flux right now. New schools are opening constantly, while our residency opportunities are stagnant. My own personal opinion, as a DO student, is that osteopathic medical education education is headed for a crisis in the next 5-10 years, mainly due to the short-sightedness of the governing body of the osteopathic profession. I don't think this bodes well for future students, ESPECIALLY ones who may be interested in a specialty such as ortho, EM, surgery, rads, etc. As more and more DO schools open, the competition for the few DO residency slots in those fields will increase dramatically.

When I applied, I was only interested in DO schools. I didn't apply to any allopathic schools. If I had to do it all over again, I probably would have applied to allopathic schools and taken an acceptance if I got one.

That said, I'm happy with my school for the most part. OMM is cool, (except the night before an exam on it) and I could'nt ask for a better student body that my class. I'm proud to be a future DO, but that does not prevent me from seeing things realistically. Its best to be exposed to the pros and cons before making such a momentous decision.

SquidDoc said:

I noted that I was only speculating, and that was based on ROTATIONS. You cannot tell me that a medical student rotating through less diverse, rural areas ONLY will get as good of an education as someone who gets to see a lot more in both large and smaller hospitals.

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which schools only have their students rotate through rural areas? and again, you're assuming that since the population density is lower, they get less sick, you're also glazing over that there are also less doctors and this allows for more pt interaction and first hand experience, i'm only 4 months into my 3rd year, but my best rotation so far has been in a town of approximately 20,000 people, I saw more pathology and rare diseases there than the clinics located in much larger cities. But this brings up a good point, rural rotations are only going to be as good as the doctor you're working under, and if he's not a good diagnostician, then you're not going to see much or learn much, and that's been my experience anyways: that the quality of the experience has a huge component of whom you're working under.

SquidDoc said:

I never said anything about Oklahoma, and I love Dr. Goljan. I think we both know that I thought of a state with a low population density to make a point of rotations playing a big role in your preparation as a physician. If I knew it would offend you to the point of name calling, I would have refrained from the comment. Sorry about that. (virtual hug)

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just a point of reading comprehension, I never called you a name, i said "it's arrogant to have an intellectual elitism about places that don't reside on a coast........" note, arrogant is an adjective, names tend to be nouns, had I wanted to call you a name, I would have worded it like “you’re an arrogant elitist for having such views”. I'm not offended, I'm just pointing out what should be an obvious flaw in your post, especially since you yourself admit it is only speculation, 1) as far as i know, no school dictates that all rotations must be rural, 2) even if they did, that does not mean any less pathology is seen, 3)even if all rotations are rural, you can not automatically assume that the education is going to be less, 4) I’m hungry for boo-berries for some odd reason….

Hernandez said:

which schools only have their students rotate through rural areas? and again, you're assuming that since the population density is lower, they get less sick, you're also glazing over that there are also less doctors and this allows for more pt interaction and first hand experience, i'm only 4 months into my 3rd year, but my best rotation so far has been in a town of approximately 20,000 people, I saw more pathology and rare diseases there than the clinics located in much larger cities. But this brings up a good point, rural rotations are only going to be as good as the doctor you're working under, and if he's not a good diagnostician, then you're not going to see much or learn much, and that's been my experience anyways: that the quality of the experience has a huge component of whom you're working under.



just a point of reading comprehension, I never called you a name, i said "it's arrogant to have an intellectual elitism about places that don't reside on a coast........" note, arrogant is an adjective, names tend to be nouns, had I wanted to call you a name, I would have worded it like “you’re an arrogant elitist for having such views”. I'm not offended, I'm just pointing out what should be an obvious flaw in your post, especially since you yourself admit it is only speculation, 1) as far as i know, no school dictates that all rotations must be rural, 2) even if they did, that does not mean any less pathology is seen, 3)even if all rotations are rural, you can not automatically assume that the education is going to be less, 4) I’m hungry for boo-berries for some odd reason….

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Excuse me Dr. assumption, but I never said that all rotations have to be rural either. Your condescending tone is really "ass-like" (note this is just an adjective, and I would not dare call you an ass) and just seems argumentative and spiteful rather than constructive. Yes I do have an opinion, based on experience and speculation. Having had many years of medical experience in several rural settings, I know first hand how limited the pt population can be as far as breadth of disease, presentation of illness, and availability of diagnostic tools (lab, rad, etc). If you found a 20,000 population town with a wide range of pathology and trauma, then good for you. Not too many rural areas will be all that diverse and have the breadth of disease and trauma that you can see in a major metro area. To argue otherwise is just silly to me, but to each their own.

The topic of this thread is whether to go MD or DO having acceptance to both. I gave my opinion on the topic at hand, and you gave your opinion about myself and my post. Thanks a lot.

Lets not ruin this thread with banter. If you want to open another thread entitled, "calling out Squid doc for not thinking all medicine rotations in low-density populations are complete" then thats fine with me. Just send me a link

FS-Pro said:

Why does this matter?

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Anyone that has to ask probably shouldn't be a doc IMHO.

Pastrami King said:

I can't speak directly to what you're looking for, but I will note that graduating with an MD keeps all of your doors open down the road. Graduating with a DO does not.

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One might argue that graduating from an osteopathic school actually leaves more doors open. An MD student cannot go to an osteopathic residency so they only have allopathic residencies available. A DO student however, can go to an allopathic residency (assuming they took the USMLEs in addition to COMLEX) or an osteopathic residency.

FS-Pro said:

Why does this matter?

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well, it sucks for living if you're not white. it also might limit the pathology you'd see in your patients. for example, certain diseases like say sarcoidosis are seem more in the african american community. you'd probably never see it in an all white communitiy. also, if all your patients are coming from the same cultural background, their lifestyle, diet, approaches to health are all going to be different. if most of your training was done in rural reas, it would be limiting, imo.

amk25a said:

One might argue that graduating from an osteopathic school actually leaves more doors open. An MD student cannot go to an osteopathic residency so they only have allopathic residencies available. A DO student however, can go to an allopathic residency (assuming they took the USMLEs in addition to COMLEX) or an osteopathic residency.

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That's like saying graduating from a foreign school leaves more doors open because you can apply for residencies in the foreign country in addition to ones in the US. But conveniently not mentioning that you'll be at a disadvantage when applying for US residencies because some residencies (especially the more competetive ones) won't even consider an applicant if they don't graduate from a U.S. allopathic school.

Graduating from a osteopathic school does not leave more door opens. In fact it closes doors. Not only here but internationally as well since the D.O. degree is invalid in lots of other countries.

priu said:

I have acceptance to my in state MD program (from what I've seen/heard, it is definitely a good program), but am still considering DO schools and do have some time to decide on my MD acceptance. My parent, an allopathic physician, is rather negative about the direction I'm going in... she says that the MD students who rotate in her department have had better knowledge than DO students. Perhaps it may be somewhat true, perhaps it's biased. I don't know. What I'd like to get out of creating this thread is perhaps DO students - those in MS1,2,3,4, residents, and perhaps fully trained docs - that went DO over an MD and are satisfied with their path. I would like to hear others' experiences, I have geniune interest in the DO approach and more specifically OMM. And please no rude comments, as we all have our biases. Besides, I'm hoping to show some responses in order to hopefully change a few minds!

Click to expand...

If I had to do it over again, I would have gone for my DO. I went to Michigan State University College of Human Medicine, but I took many of my first two year classes with MSU Osteo Med students. The osteo faculty seemed to really care about the students and did not have the massive egos the MD faculty did. The docs that came out of MSU's osteo med school were among the brightest I've ever encountered. I noticed a HUGE difference in doctor-patient interaction among the DOs. Based on my personal observations, it appeared that, on average, DOs, regardless of speciality, spent more time with their patients and actually listened to their patients. I'm an MD and a psychiatrist. I'm trained to listen and observe, but it seems many of my MD colleagues don't have much interest in listening to the patient.

I see a DO as my PCP. I also see a DO uro who treated me for nephrolithiasis. The care I received was excellent! If I had to do it over again, I would have gone the DO route. I think osteopaths receive excellent training in patient communication, which fosters great trust and tx compliance. Also, while many MDs feel they are superior to DOs, they are not. A DO and MD receive essentially the same training and are treated equally under the law. There is nothing an MD can do that a DO cannot do.

Just my two cents!
Zack

exlawgrrl said:

well, it sucks for living if you're not white. it also might limit the pathology you'd see in your patients. for example, certain diseases like say sarcoidosis are seem more in the african american community. you'd probably never see it in an all white communitiy. also, if all your patients are coming from the same cultural background, their lifestyle, diet, approaches to health are all going to be different. if most of your training was done in rural reas, it would be limiting, imo.

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Are you saying that rural areas have only white people?

.

OSUdoc08 said:

Are you saying that rural areas have only white people?

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She is saying that Cushing is predominantly white.

exlawgrrl said:

well, it sucks for living if you're not white. it also might limit the pathology you'd see in your patients. for example, certain diseases like say sarcoidosis are seem more in the african american community. you'd probably never see it in an all white communitiy. also, if all your patients are coming from the same cultural background, their lifestyle, diet, approaches to health are all going to be different. if most of your training was done in rural reas, it would be limiting, imo.

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It also kinda sucks even if you are white but used to living in a rather culturally diverse place, but that is another issue entirely.

amk25a said:

I think this is confounding open doors with the width of the doors. MDs are categorically not allowed in osteopathic residencies (as far as I'm aware). The only restriction DOs have when applying allo would be the bias of the program. So, more doors are open. That being said, I agree with you that DOs will likely be at a disadvantage at many allo residencies, especially those in areas where DOs are uncommon. So, the doors here may be wider for allos than for osteos. But, in those areas where DOs are plentiful, I don't think it'd be an issue what your degree is when applying allo.

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However you want to spin it, the fact remains DOs are at a disadvantage when it comes time for residency. Maybe not for getting a FP residency but definetly for the more competetive residencies.

Megalofyia said:

It also kinda sucks even if you are white but used to living in a rather culturally diverse place, but that is another issue entirely.

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I don't think race is relevant to the practice of medicine.

Yes, there are some disorders more frequent with certain races, but it shouldn't affect where you decide to practice.

OSUdoc08 said:

I don't think race is relevant to the practice of medicine.

Yes, there are some disorders more frequent with certain races, but it shouldn't affect where you decide to practice.

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Verbal section of MCAT wasn't your strongest point was it?

Anyways... My comment didn't have to do with practicing medicine but with general living. Which does affect where I decide to practice, if you want to go down that road.

Megalofyia said:

Verbal section of MCAT wasn't your strongest point was it?

Anyways... My comment didn't have to do with practicing medicine but with general living. Which does affect where I decide to practice, if you want to go down that road.

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From my time spent on this board I've come to realize the M.D.s are a immature buch of people with chips on their shoulders. Anyone who thinks they are better than another person should not be practicing medicine. The M.D. world is only measured by test scores bla bla bla guess what your patient will not ask you what you made on your MCAT nor your SAT. So to all the pompas M.D.s who think you are the gods of the medical world "Grow Up".

allendo said:

From my time spent on this board I've come to realize the M.D.s are a immature buch of people with chips on their shoulders. Anyone who thinks they are better than another person should not be practicing medicine. The M.D. world is only measured by test scores bla bla bla guess what your patient will not ask you what you made on your MCAT nor your SAT. So to all the pompas M.D.s who think you are the gods of the medical world "Grow Up".

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Please refrain from disparaging people based on your limited anecdotal experience.

ProZackMI said:

If I had to do it over again, I would have gone for my DO. I went to Michigan State University College of Human Medicine, but I took many of my first two year classes with MSU Osteo Med students. The osteo faculty seemed to really care about the students and did not have the massive egos the MD faculty did. The docs that came out of MSU's osteo med school were among the brightest I've ever encountered. I noticed a HUGE difference in doctor-patient interaction among the DOs. Based on my personal observations, it appeared that, on average, DOs, regardless of speciality, spent more time with their patients and actually listened to their patients. I'm an MD and a psychiatrist. I'm trained to listen and observe, but it seems many of my MD colleagues don't have much interest in listening to the patient.

I see a DO as my PCP. I also see a DO uro who treated me for nephrolithiasis. The care I received was excellent! If I had to do it over again, I would have gone the DO route. I think osteopaths receive excellent training in patient communication, which fosters great trust and tx compliance. Also, while many MDs feel they are superior to DOs, they are not. A DO and MD receive essentially the same training and are treated equally under the law. There is nothing an MD can do that a DO cannot do.

Just my two cents!
Zack

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It really makes me feel good about my decision when I hear things like this. Thanks for sharing!

Megalofyia said:

Verbal section of MCAT wasn't your strongest point was it?

Anyways... My comment didn't have to do with practicing medicine but with general living. Which does affect where I decide to practice, if you want to go down that road.

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I'm not sure if you are trying to insult me or not, but I did well on the verbal section.



On a side note, you don't have to live in the same town that you practice.

allendo said:

From my time spent on this board I've come to realize the M.D.s are a immature buch of people with chips on their shoulders. Anyone who thinks they are better than another person should not be practicing medicine. The M.D. world is only measured by test scores bla bla bla guess what your patient will not ask you what you made on your MCAT nor your SAT. So to all the pompas M.D.s who think you are the gods of the medical world "Grow Up".

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How many MD's are on the board compared to premedical students?

Don't base your opinion off of premedical students, because they have no clue.

SquidDoc said:

I noted that I was only speculating, and that was based on ROTATIONS. You cannot tell me that a medical student rotating through less diverse, rural areas ONLY will get as good of an education as someone who gets to see a lot more in both large and smaller hospitals.

I never said anything about Oklahoma, and I love Dr. Goljan. I think we both know that I thought of a state with a low population density to make a point of rotations playing a big role in your preparation as a physician. If I knew it would offend you to the point of name calling, I would have refrained from the comment. Sorry about that. (virtual hug)

There is nothing wrong with small towns either...I grew up in a town of less than 1000 people with 1 doctor in it. Someday I may retire there

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Just to play devils advocate here about rotations...
There are pros and cons to both "big" and "small" hospital rotations. I've discussed this a lot with my docs because I will have a choice of coming back home for my rotations to a smaller hospital (still has everything important) where I will be front and center for everything but will probably miss some exposure to certain pathologies. Or I could go to the bigger city hospitals where I'll get more variety but will be behind a number of other students and as a MS3 probably very low on the chain. Many of the docs suggested to me that I should split it up. Do my first year in my hometown and then take electives at the bigger hospitals. I don't know what I'll do yet, but I think a lot of it will depend on what decisions I've made at that point regarding my specialty and what my match ends up being. Ah fate...

By the way, I'm going DO and I've withdrawn two of my MD apps. Not because they are bad schools or DO's are better or MD's are better but because my personality fits DO and my beliefs better fit these specific DO school's priorities and I really like the curriculum and my hometown residencies are through these DO schools (ENT and EM). And two DO schools are closer to my home in case my hubby and I have to be apart for awhile during the transition.

So I think it really depends on the situation of the person. I don't think other's opinions should decide what you do unless you are the type that would be miserable because of what others think. You have to pick your priorities and go by that and only you can decide what they are.

Good luck to you either way!

Chief Resident said:

Please refrain from disparaging people based on your limited anecdotal experience.

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You know Chief I'm tired of you, I've backed off and tried to be nice and even make constructive comments on threads you've started but you continue to be a jerk. I have to pose this question then, if D.O.'s are so far below M.D.'s then why are D.O.'s beating out M.D.'s for residency spots. And don't try to say they arent b/c I remember a couple of months ago in the allo or internal med forum there was a thread about how to beat out the D.O.'s for Im spots. Also, why do M.D.'s teach at our schools, do they stand up there the whole time thinking about how ignorant we are? No. I know plenty of D.O.'s from my school that have went allo cards, rad-onc, rads, gi, pulm, surg, and Er. When it boils down to it, yes some programs will judge you b/c your D.O. but most will not. They want someone who will show up to work, and work hard and give there best effort, not someone who made a 40 on the MCAT.

OSUdoc08 said:

Are you saying that rural areas have only white people?

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Cushing seems to only have white people and some native americans. My husband lived in Harrison, AR, and that town only had white people and Mexican illegal aliens who worked in chicken factories. Towns in the delta would be primarily AA. So, no, I'm not saying that. However, small towns in Oklahoma seem to be pretty white with the except of maybe Langston. IMO, that would provide some limitations in your medical education because diversity of patients is a good thing.

Megalofyia said:

She is saying that Cushing is predominantly white.

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Yes, thank you. They do have an AA urologist, but he and his wife are supposedly about the only AA people in town.

Hernandez said:

...but my best rotation so far has been in a town of approximately 20,000 people, I saw more pathology and rare diseases there than the clinics located in much larger cities.

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I wanted to comment on this: When I shadowed docs in our local NICU (~40-50,000) the two docs I shadowed worked on and off between here and OKC, OK or LaX, WI. The one from OK city said that he couldn't explain why but he saw a greater variety of pathologies and many rare diseases at our hospital rather than the much bigger city. On the other hand while we do have minorities we don't have as many and we have different drug problems such as meth vs crack, etc. So I guess the decision really lies in where you want to practice.

The two DO schools I've been accepted into let you choose your rotation. There are a whole array of hospitals of all sizes and shapes to choose from and you almost always get one of your top two choices. So I don't think that rural vs urban rotation is necessarily a DO vs MD or even a location variable.

allendo said:

You know Chief I'm tired of you, I've backed off and tried to be nice and even make constructive comments on threads you've started but you continue to be a jerk.

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Made constructive comments? Have you actually read your previous posts where you did nothing but post immature insults instead of discuss the issue?

I have to pose this question then, if D.O.'s are so far below M.D.'s then why are D.O.'s beating out M.D.'s for residency spots. And don't try to say they arent b/c I remember a couple of months ago in the allo or internal med forum there was a thread about how to beat out the D.O.'s for Im spots.

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Again, a few anecdotal cases of DOs in IM residency. Try to find DOs routinely beating out U.S. MDs in allopathic residency spots, especially the more competetive residencies. The only time you might find they do are in residencies that most US allopathic grads don't want anyway, like at uncompetetive programs with a high proportion on FMGs.

Stop feeding the troll!!!!

Well this got some constructive replies before the fighting began... and I'll say this before it gets too out of hand...

I don't usually do this and I highly doubt it will be advantageous, but what the heck, I'll just throw myself out there.

I referred many people at school to this site of various pre's (pre-dental, pre-opth, pre-med, etc). They told me that they don't use it because you often get attacked when asking a question. I see now how correct they are. People come here looking for guidance, help, or even just a conversation with peers. If the OP isn't being attacked then the posters are. Also, it seems like the people who so often claim they are being "attacked" and are so defensive are the ones who consistently attack others.

It's a child's game and as future physicians we have a responsibility to rise above this. Welcome diversity and opinions, stop attacking others, and have normal conversations and debates. That doesn't mean we have to agree on anything. But come on, we're professionals or are soon to be professionals. Lets act like it. (omg I sound like a mother ).

If something isn't done about this all the SDN newbies are going to be driven away.

exlawgrrl said:

Cushing seems to only have white people and some native americans. My husband lived in Harrison, AR, and that town only had white people and Mexican illegal aliens who worked in chicken factories. Towns in the delta would be primarily AA. So, no, I'm not saying that. However, small towns in Oklahoma seem to be pretty white with the except of maybe Langston. IMO, that would provide some limitations in your medical education because diversity of patients is a good thing.

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At OSU-COM, you are required to do urban family practice rotations our clinic. I PROMISE you will get plenty of diversity.

Chief Resident said:

Made constructive comments? Have you actually read your previous posts where you did nothing but post immature insults instead of discuss the issue?




Again, a few anecdotal cases of DOs in IM residency. Try to find DOs routinely beating out U.S. MDs in allopathic residency spots, especially the more competetive residencies. The only time you might find they do are in residencies that most US allopathic grads don't want anyway, like at uncompetetive programs with a high proportion on FMGs.

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I think you need to go into psych so you can relate to your patients. And again they spots they beat people out for are not one people don't want. Check the IM forum and Em forum for interviews and they have competitive places listed to interview and by their scores they will match.