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I was wondering if anyone could tell me about this. It seems like some DO students can apply to MD residency programs. Is that accurate and if it is, is the reverse also true?
vtucci said:I was wondering if anyone could tell me about this. It seems like some DO students can apply to MD residency programs. Is that accurate and if it is, is the reverse also true?
vtucci said:I was wondering if anyone could tell me about this. It seems like some DO students can apply to MD residency programs. Is that accurate and if it is, is the reverse also true?
Does anyone know which D.O. em programs to stay away from?EM Junkie said:That is correct - DO students can apply to MD residencies but MD students cannot apply to DO residencies. I think that is outrageous and unfair, but nobody asked me.
If it is any consolation, the DO residencies in Emergency Medicine are of varying quality, and while some are supposedly very good, others are very very bad. Allopathic, or MD Emegency Medicine residencies, are all pretty good training sites.
EM Junkie said:That is correct - DO students can apply to MD residencies but MD students cannot apply to DO residencies. I think that is outrageous and unfair, but nobody asked me.
If it is any consolation, the DO residencies in Emergency Medicine are of varying quality, and while some are supposedly very good, others are very very bad. Allopathic, or MD Emegency Medicine residencies, are all pretty good training sites.
allendo said:Does anyone know which D.O. em programs to stay away from?
EM Junkie said:That is correct - DO students can apply to MD residencies but MD students cannot apply to DO residencies. I think that is outrageous and unfair, but nobody asked me.
If it is any consolation, the DO residencies in Emergency Medicine are of varying quality, and while some are supposedly very good, others are very very bad. Allopathic, or MD Emegency Medicine residencies, are all pretty good training sites.
corpsmanUP said:Interesting that you know so much about DO EM programs. I do not know even what you are presuming to know about DO programs...only rumors and secondhand knowledge here.
I also doubt that any respectable MD would care to apply to a DO EM program. I think they should be allowed to, but it would make no difference. It would perhaps make a difference in the super competitive specialties where even going to a DO program would be worth it to some MD's, like derm.
The AOA's argument though that MD's are not qualified to be in a DO program because they are not trained as a DO no longer holds water. Rarely have I ever heard of a DO program in any specialty that requires or encourages their residents to use their "osteopathic" knowledge or skills. It is now to the point of embarrasment in fact how little difference there is between DO's and MD's. Its just a matter of time before individual DO schools see the lure of bigger research potential and dollar signs and become accredited through the LCME. Even TCOM where I go to school is bringing on MD faculty as fast as DO faculty. 100 years from now, my DO degree will be a collector's item!!
DeLaughterDO said:I agree with you EMJunkie - I think it is ridiculous that MDs cannot apply to AOA residencies, yet DO students complain when they are "discriminated" against when applying to ACGME residencies because they are DOs.
And the comment made by Y2KPSD that "they are not qualified" is a crock of ****.
I think all residency positions should be opened up for application by everyone. The AOA is afraid their residencies would be shut down by a joint match because they cannot compete with the ACGME positions - that is probably true. However, if the AOA residencies were held to the same standards as the ACGME programs (RRC evals, volume, etc), maybe they would get better and there would be less fear by the AOA that all their graduates are leaving to become trained by ACGME programs.
Open it all up - that's my vote. Maybe I'm a traitor, since I'll be a DO in 3 weeks... that's just what I think.
jd
vtucci said:I was wondering if anyone could tell me about this. It seems like some DO students can apply to MD residency programs. Is that accurate and if it is, is the reverse also true?
corpsmanUP said:Interesting that you know so much about DO EM programs. I do not know even what you are presuming to know about DO programs...only rumors and secondhand knowledge here.
OSUdoc08 said:Why would you want to do an extra year, anyway?
All DO residencies are 4 years.
EctopicFetus said:Keep in mind that out of the 135 or so MD programs about 35 of them are 4 yr programs.. People choose to go to these programs...
EM Junkie said:I never pretended to know so much about DO programs.
If I were in charge of the world, I would tell the AOA residencies they must start accepting applications from MD students within 2 years or we were slamming the door shut on ACGME residencies to DO applicants - that would change a few things pretty quickly!
That is all (end rant).
-EM Junkie, MD in 3 weeks
corpsmanUP said:I hate to say it but you sound a little condescending from your "MD throne". Your post stated that some DO programs were very, very bad. I mean how do you really know that? I just think to comment on that when you are in no position to know, nor care, shows some bit of arrogance. I cannot even tell you that some DO programs are very, very bad, but if I said it at least I have 4 years in a DO institution to back it up. But I am not saying that.
corpsmanUP said:Your statement following your what-if about ruling the world showed more arrogance than I want to believe you really have. I want to believe you really do not feel that DO's are in ACGME programs out of some favor to us....like we are not worthy unless there is some sort of exception made for us. I think we both know that if a few DO's had changed their rank order around, many an MD student might be in a different program. Yes, it is true, some programs value candidates based on their overall package and rank accordingly. You are never going to get the ACGME to shut out DO's now that they have had good DO's in their programs. To do so would put lesser qualified MD students into specialty residencies that otherwise would not have got in in all liklihood.
corpsmanUP said:So what you are saying if I understand you is that if the AOA does not open residencies to physicians who have a skillset not up to their par , that you would shut out a great group of DO residents in ACGME residencies?? Don't forget my friend, we take an entire 2 years of classes that you know nothing about, and still we often take your board exam. Its arrogant of you to believe that ACGME PD's would want to somehow punish themselves by cutting out of their rank list a great group of residents in favor of some lesser MD's. And before you retaliate, think about it, it's true. If ACGME programs overnight cut out ranking DO students it would cause them to have to rank 2-3% more MD's, and the only place to get them would be at the statistical level below where those DO's were in the rankings.
corpsmanUP said:The bottom line dude is that when you jump up too quickly to speak about black issues coming from the white world, you are not going to be looked upon favorably by any of the black parties, because you just haven't lived in that world.
vtucci said:Wow- did not mean to start all this trouble. I was just curious.
I understand that there is a bias in some programs against doctors with a DO degree. As it is not a bias I share, I was simply wondering why the MD students could not do the DO residencies? For those of you headed to DO residencies in EM, what aspects of your special training (i.e., the classes that MDs do not have) do you think are particularly well suited to EM?
I was also thinking about location/family concerns for many of my classmates.
corpsmanUP said:There are few if any DO programs located in a city where there are no ACGME programs already. The only place that comes to mind is Oklahoma. Phili, Cleveland, Chicago, SoCal, Columbus, and several others are of no benefit for an MD grad. The ACGME programs in these places already outnumber the DO programs 2 to 1 easily. Even if the AOA opened up its slots to MD's, the AOA is determined to NOT have a joint match. So this makes it virtually pointless because no MD is going to forgo the ACGME match and wait for the AOA match. We are talking about a scenario that would benefit perhaps 1 or 2 MD's per year, if that.
Cool thanks for the information.
OMM is not just "massage". It is a philosophy that starts with patient centered listening skills, and includes the use of hands for both diagnosis and therapy. More than anything it makes DO physicians some of the best anatomists around, and this is a big help in many ways. You really can't understand it unless you have learned it. Sure, there are some aspects of it that are just odd, and unproven, but there are many medications we routinely prescribed in the past that now are off the market because they were found to be deadly. Vioxx, Rezulin, Seldane, Propulsid, etc..etc..
DOs were not the only ones prescribing medicines that have since been pulled off the market. We are all guilty on that one.
All I am saying is that there is no reason for a 4th year allopathic student to come on here and proclaim to be some expert in DO EM education. I called it like it was. The OP asked a reasonable question and I hope she/he has heard a decent explanation of the issue between the tracer rounds!
corpsmanUP said:You continue to put your own foot in your mouth with comments like "lesser qualified DO's". Your bias is obvious.
corpsmanUP said:Come on man, at least admit you took cheap shots at my profession.....I mean seriously...."massaging pneumonia".....
corpsmanUP said:I am off to watch the Sopranos....I hope you can meet me half way with this....
EM Junkie said:Since this thread has been reopened, I accept your olive branch Corpsman.
In retrospect I should have answered the OP with this:
"That is correct - DO students can apply to MD residencies but MD students cannot apply to DO residencies. I think that is outrageous and unfair, but nobody asked me."
...and left it for those with more first hand knowledge of the topic to discuss further. I never meant to insinuate that DO's are any less capable physicians, I feel my posts were taken out of context on that topic. Let's consider this closed and move on to more pressing issues....
:hug:
Wow I hate to unnecesarrily bring up racial issues for the second time on this silly thread but I just have to say that I would like to nominate this post as the "straight up whiter then the whitest white man" post of the monthcorpsmanUP said:Right back acha Holmes!!
And lesson for Tkim..oversteppor...of territorial bounds....wishin....for some...true power......nuttin butta playa....moderata.... (!@@$@!!#@^##@!)<------EM gang signs being flashed.
Stay on ya own block!!!
colforbinMD said:Wow I hate to unnecesarrily bring up racial issues for the second time on this silly thread but I just have to say that I would like to nominate this post as the "straight up whiter then the whitest white man" post of the month
Panda Bear said:I am going to a combined MD/DO program starting in June. I am asking this question humbly and without rancor and using my respect for DOs of whom I know many as a basis but why do DOs have to do a transitional year for a MD PGY1-3 program while MDs do not?
Also, to those of you who want to bust down on the DOs, if you look, many EM programs have DOs in them both as residents and faculty. Maybe EM knows something that other specialties don't.
WilcoWorld said:Q: If a bunch of DO's fought a bunch of MD's, who would win?
A: Ditka
old saturday night live skit...DeLaughterDO said:WTF?
Taus said:old saturday night live skit...
Shouldn't you have taken Monday off from posting then?corpsmanUP said:Sorry man, I won't qualify, as I have too much mexican DNA.
colforbinMD said:Shouldn't you have taken Monday off from posting then?
colforbinMD said:Shouldn't you have taken Monday off from posting then?
corpsmanUP said:I protested by drinking imported beer instead of domestic Milwaukee's Best for a day. It cost me a little more but I got to really stick it to those freaking cheese heads!!
Modela Especial, NFLBKN said:negra modelo, mmm
DeLaughter... the SNL skit is one of the funniest they have done. I generally dont think that much of what is on SNL is funny the older stuff is classic.. My favorite..WilcoWorld said:Q: If a bunch of DO's fought a bunch of MD's, who would win?
A: Ditka
BKN said:negra modelo, mmm
OSUdoc08 said:Negra Modelo is the best Mexican beer.
Guinness and Newcastle are the best overall beers.
Shiner Bock and Sam Adams are the best American beers.
Discuss.
Anyone with love for Honey Brown, how about grolsch. I am currently enjoying these fine beverages.. I like to mix it up. Also Hatuey (sp?) is a cuban beer which is pretty darn good.OSUdoc08 said:Negra Modelo is the best Mexican beer.
Guinness and Newcastle are the best overall beers.
Shiner Bock and Sam Adams are the best American beers.
Discuss.
corpsmanUP said:I like Honey Brown, but in the past 5 years I have become bored with it. I have never cared for Shiner, especially once I found out they used carmel coloring to make it look like it was some kind of pale ale. It's not terrible, but its nothing I would die for.
Honker's Ale (Goose Island Brewery) from Chicago is great. I haven't heard anyone mention Fat Tire either, which I love. I like Amstel for a light beer, and like Jeff said, water beer is excellent when it's 100 degrees outside. My favorite for that is Milwaukee's Best Light in the blue can, which is actually just bottom of the barrel Miller Lite. Its cheaper and the same to me for the intended purpose.
Beck's isn't bad, and I really used to love Celis Rasberry but I can't ever find it anymore. And of course the old Sierra Nevada is a fine pale ale.
I bartended as an M1 and the place only served Goose Island on tap (others by the bottle) the honkers ale is good but some of the others are even better.corpsmanUP said:I like Honey Brown, but in the past 5 years I have become bored with it. I have never cared for Shiner, especially once I found out they used carmel coloring to make it look like it was some kind of pale ale. It's not terrible, but its nothing I would die for.
Honker's Ale (Goose Island Brewery) from Chicago is great. I haven't heard anyone mention Fat Tire either, which I love. I like Amstel for a light beer, and like Jeff said, water beer is excellent when it's 100 degrees outside. My favorite for that is Milwaukee's Best Light in the blue can, which is actually just bottom of the barrel Miller Lite. Its cheaper and the same to me for the intended purpose.
Beck's isn't bad, and I really used to love Celis Rasberry but I can't ever find it anymore. And of course the old Sierra Nevada is a fine pale ale.