Interview-Trail Impressions

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I guess I should be taking better notes to try to avoid blurring all schools together. My memory tells me the cap is actually 8/ call night, and an intern can have max of 12 pts to care for. Not sure if that is the nationwide trend, but carrying 12 pts seems busy to me. (they always reach the cap or carrying capacity).

no no no. i went to med school at michigan. last year the interns capped at 5 new +1 unit transfer. plus, they cap at midnight. most of the time the interns would have capped by that point, but if you only got 3 or 4 by mn, then you were done. no 5:30am admissions (on the floor, you still admit all night in the unit). there is a 2nd year resident service that takes admissions after mn. they keep the patients- there are no patient handoffs.

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hehehe...that's what they all say until you match.

have you forgotten that we've all been through med school, and i spent four months working closely with the internal medicine residents and the program at my school (which is a one of the top IM programs in the country) and saw for myself exactly what i said going on at my school, in addition to the seven programs i mentioned above? you think during those four months of rotating with the IM dept. the residents were "hiding" the extra 4-6 patients they were taking care of cause they didn't want me to find out what it was "really" like until after i matched?

come on, time for a reality check. you say 12 patients is the standard cap at "all" programs...i think that's the standard cap at YOUR program, and perhaps you're so bitter about it that the only thing that makes it tolerable for you is the delusion that "all" the programs and their residents are like this.

hehehe....you got screwed.
 
I have to agree with Rajvosa here. As far as I am aware, the 12 patient per intern is a ACGME max. 5 admissions for interns in 24 hours. 8 admissions for interns in 48 hours. Consults are nebulous and up to each individual program. Now, each program can have their own caps, as long as they don't break the national caps.

In my 1.5 years of residency, I have never myself hit - or seen a fellow intern hit - 12 patients. I think 9 was my max and that was immediately post-call. That sucked and I can't imagine handling 12 patients post-call.

If I may offer some advice, though. The caps and numbers etc. for interns are only part of the equation. If you want to look like a rock star at your interviews, ask about senior call. At our program, seniors never stay overnight. Once you are a PGY-2, you will never go without sleep.

Everyone can survive one rough year but three malignant years can break anyone - and don't get me started on trying to squeeze in research and fellowship applications.
 
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Listen buddy. I am a PGY3 and I could care less if you guys carry 12 or 10. I am not the one writting progress notes or doing blood cultures. All I am saying that the cap is 12. You will realize that later during your training. Mark my post.
 
Maybe just naive confusion. At a program in Boston with the letters B and W in it, an intern can take 7 on a call night on our GMS services. In addition we do cap at a total of 12 pts per intern at any one time. This means if you go into call with 8 pts you can only take 4 more. However if you have 5 pts then you can get the call cap of 7 pts and you hit the intern cap of 12 pts total. Just you wait, it can only make you stronger. And possibly darker. And more jaded. BTW I have had 12 pts several times in my first 6 months of internship. It is tough but not impossible.

Good luck. Cap at 6 pts. That was funny.
 
have you forgotten that we've all been through med school, and i spent four months working closely with the internal medicine residents and the program at my school (which is a one of the top IM programs in the country) and saw for myself exactly what i said going on at my school, in addition to the seven programs i mentioned above? you think during those four months of rotating with the IM dept. the residents were "hiding" the extra 4-6 patients they were taking care of cause they didn't want me to find out what it was "really" like until after i matched?

come on, time for a reality check. you say 12 patients is the standard cap at "all" programs...i think that's the standard cap at YOUR program, and perhaps you're so bitter about it that the only thing that makes it tolerable for you is the delusion that "all" the programs and their residents are like this.

hehehe....you got screwed.


There must be some "***** IM program" for you somewhere in the country with 6 patient cap. Try Dakota. They do not have a lot of people in the state:laugh:
 
Listen buddy. I am a PGY3 and I could care less if you guys carry 12 or 10. I am not the one writting progress notes or doing blood cultures. All I am saying that the cap is 12. You will realize that later during your training. Mark my post.

NYU is not scut work at all. In my PGY 2 and PGY 3 I drew blood 2 times.

So which is it? Are you busy writing progress notes and drawing blood cultures, or is your NYU program no scut at all and you've only done it twice? Are you just really busy drawing those two blood cultures?

There must be some "***** IM program" for you somewhere in the country with 6 patient cap. Try Dakota. They do not have a lot of people in the state:laugh:
Pssst. There is no state called "Dakota." I realize you live in the center of the world, but perhaps you should get a clue before posting about things you seem to not know much about.
 
I thought South Dakota was a state. No???
 
Try Dakota. They do not have a lot of people in the state:laugh:

Pssst. There is no state called "Dakota." I realize you live in the center of the world, but perhaps you should get a clue before posting about things you seem to not know much about.

Just click the link dude and I'm sure you can figure out your mistake.
 
There must be some "***** IM program" for you somewhere in the country with 6 patient cap. Try Dakota. They do not have a lot of people in the state:laugh:

yeah, i guess i'm referring to a bunch of "*****" IM programs. ucla, stanford, ucsd, yale...oh well, guess i'll just have to choose which "*****" program to attend and spend the next three years feeling inferior to people like you. you can go on calling me a "*****", and i'll wish i had gone to nyu where i could have trained with a "dick" like you.
 
You are the one whining about the cap. Take it like a man. 8 or 12 the same thing. You should base you decision on program's quality and not on stupid cap. :scared: :scared:
 
Just click the link dude and I'm sure you can figure out your mistake.


Yo dude, tell me who is the current governer of Minnesota? Is it Hulk Hogan?:)
 
Yo dude, tell me who is the current governer of Minnesota? Is it Hulk Hogan?:)

If anybody else had made that comment I would have snickered and let it slide. But when you post it I honestly think you don't realize that Jesse "The Body" is no longer governor. Perhaps you're spending too much in the hospital supervising your interns and their 12 patients to realize that. I usually don't give a crap what people do or do not know about various things, except when they keep claiming to. Tell ya what - next time you respond to one of my posts, try checking Wikipedia or even Google first.
 
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this thread has taken a turn for the worse :thumbdown:

everybody please chill out
 
I was asking you about the current governor and it was a joke. Do you have any sense of humor? I do know that Ventura is not Governer anymore but who knows maybe Hulk is the new one. As far as being overworked, not me for sure. I am very chill as I am PGY3 and already matched in fellowship of my choice. I just tell my interns what to do.
 
I think there are some misunderstanding with regards to terminology here.

"Cap" can mean total census or number of patients admitted in a long/overnight call. I believe most people are saying that in general, interns can cap at 12 total patients and at 6 admits per call (some combination thereof of some new and some from night float). The lowest numbers for total patients that I've seen are 10 on some complicated services with considerations to lower to 8.

For example, mcindoe, at UCLA, UCSD, and Yale, intern caps are indeed at 12 per intern and 6 admits on general medicine services.

I highly doubt there are any programs that cap interns at 6 total patients. Do the math. It'd be very hard to hit required admit targets with such low censi.
 
thanks truth617...i appreciate you recognizing the misunderstanding and clarifying it.

rajvosa--i'm sure NYU is proud to have you representing them on these forums and showing what a mature guy you are. if i were your PD or colleague i'd be embarrassed to see what an NYU senior resident is posting on these internet forums. you're really contributing a lot to the program's image :rolleyes:
 
Listen Minnesota boy. I tried to tell you that the cap is 12 but you tried to make fool of me. Now that everybody is saying the same thing you realize that I was right you were fool yourself. I do like to joke.


Good luck with your match. Hope you survive your intern year.
 
I think there are some misunderstanding with regards to terminology here ...

Listen Minnesota boy. I tried to tell you that the cap is 12 but you tried to make fool of me. Now that everybody is saying the same thing you realize that I was right you were fool yourself. I do like to joke.


Good luck with your match. Hope you survive your intern year.

Ummm ... I'm Minnesota Boy. My signature up a few posts is a good tip off. Remember, beady eyes, long nose, perky ears and smart ass posts = Adcadet ("Minnesota Boy"). Mild-mannered guy who tries to clear up a confusing thread without an avatar = truth617.

Does anyone else hear that? It's the sound of applicants de-selecting NYU for years to come. Its a shame; I hear it's a good program. Hopefully we can get some sane people to post reviews of NYU's program. Just try to keep in mind, though, that Rajvosa should graduate this year and will be long-gone before any of the current or future applicants start their intern year at NYU, and hopefully the future G3s take a more enlightened approach to working with interns:
I just tell my interns what to do.
 
Seriously dude you are too tight. relax.:laugh:''My reference to "ordering interns what to do" is only to make a point that I am not stressed. Nonetheless, I do help my interns do intern work in order to move them ASAP to the nearest manhattan bar. If you love relaxed atmosphere, fun residents and cool attendings consider NYU. If I would reapply to IM I would come to NYU again. If anybody has any questions about NYU program, feel free to ask.


PS. Our sub-Is carry 6 patients.
 
Sooooo...has anyone had any good interviews lately?
 
Wow. Rajvosa, you are really making NYU look bad.

Anyway... back to the point of this thread.

Brown
Overall impression. I think this is a pretty strong program in a nice location with a strong international rotations.

PD. There seemed to be a few PDs, but Dr. Tammarro was the main PD and he is very kind and funny. They seemed very responsive to the needs of the residents.

Chairman. The chairman is a nice gentleman whose life was reportedly changed by his international experiences. As a result, he is committed to making the international opportunities strong at Brown.

Residents. The residents seemed very nice and down-to-earth. The do not appear too overworked or tired.

Patient population. Apparently the patient population is more diverse than what you would think for RI. I guess there is a big russian population and portugese population in the area, as well as other groups.

Teaching Conferences. I sat in on morning report. I thought there was really good participation and attendance. For half the time, a doctor gave a lecture that was only so-so.

Hospitals. Brown residents rotate through Rhode Island Hospital, Miriam, and the VA. The RIH is a community hospital that looks a little old and run-down. The miriam is a much smaller and much nicer private hospital about 15 minutes away from RIH by car. The VA is like all VAs. I think they only spend two months total in all three years at the VA.

Location. I found providence to be a really cute city. Residents could live in the city or live in the suburbs (very close by). There is minimal traffic in the area and most of the residents have a car. I guess the public transportation is not that good in providence, but, like i said, most people drive.

International Opportunities. This is one of the greatest strengths of the program. They have a well developed international opportunities to Kenya, Dominican republic, India, and somewhere else. About 20% of residents go abroad. They get their full salary when they are abroad and only have to pay for their plane ticket.
 
...At a program in Boston with the letters B and W in it, an intern can take 7 on a call night on our GMS services. In addition we do cap at a total of 12 pts per intern at any one time...Good luck. Cap at 6 pts. That was funny...

It's actually an official ACGME requirement, not just a trend, that interns cannot admit more than 5 patients on a call night, nor carry more than 12 patients at a time. See the following document, page #21, section 2.a (this is the official ACGME "internal medicine program requirements" document):

http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/downloads/RRC_progReq/140pr703_u704.pdf

It states that interns can only admit SEVEN patients if two of them are in-house transfers from other medical services (such as ICUs). This same section of the document also states the "cap of 12" rule that others have mentioned; this is indeed an official ACGME rule, not just a trend that most programs follow (as some have alleged in previous posts). Per the ACGME, interns can carry a maximum total of 12 patients at any given time.

If programs are not following these rules then they are in clear violation of ACGME requirements, and could legitimately be reported and disciplined accordingly. These rules exist to protect patients and to help prevent burnout, so don't let your program walk all over you; if they're clearly violating the rules then you should report them.
 
Disclaimer - I've only been to the program during interview day, and I'm not familiar with Boston. If I've made any factual errors, please somebody point them out to me. I'm also happy to hear differences of opinion. And the reviews I post should not be viewed as a marker of what programs I'll rank highly or not so highly. I've tried to be objective and address some of the concerns I've heard floating around SDN, and like many of the second-hand opinions on the internet, some are well-founded and need to be considered, some are minor, and some are just plain wrong. So without further ado, I present the Adcadet Review of Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center . . .

Overall - Wonderfully friendly, supportive residents in a very academic environment with a great focus on excellence in education. The two big questions for many is that of private patients and if the new EIP/geographic admitting and growing trend towards hospitalist medicine solves the problem, and the fact that within Boston and Harvard BID can be overshadowed by B&W and MGH.

The Program Director - Previous posters here at SDN noted that the PD, Dr. Reynolds, seemed "less than dynamic" and "a little sharp on the edges." During interview day she was visible and chatted freely with applicants and spent some time talking about her personal/home life. She did not seem perfectly at ease talking with residents and I got the impression that she was forcing herself to be more social than she usually is. But hey, I almost certainly looked stiff even though I'm a pretty laid back easy going guy. Every resident said that she ranged from "good" to "amazing," although few had actually spent significant time with her. One that had spent some time with her told about a scheduling problem was infringing upon some other protected time, and the PD was angry but did not blame the resident and made it clear to the attending and fellows on that rotation that they needed to adjust the expectations to accomodate the protected time - and the problem was solved. Dr. Reynolds is also a national leader in education and her expertise in feedback evaluation seems clear. Like all good residencies, BID is constantly changing and it's clear that she's both proactively making changes for the better and reactively making changes based on resident feedback. Both the PD and Chair spoke, and both made it clear that we should ask the tough questions, take a long hard look, come back for a second look (they said they don't keep track of who does a "second look" nor factor it in come rank time), and feel free to contact them later with any question, and all the applicants had plenty of time with residents away from faculty; I really thought they there was nothing they were trying to hide. The program director is involved in the Educational Initiative Project (EIP). As I understand it, 80 residency programs were deamed eligible to participate based on their history of providing solid training, and 17 applications were accepted. The program waives the traditional ACGME requirements to allow programs to experiment with innovative ideas. There are a number of components, none of which were discussed in any detail. One that was mentioned by residents a lot was geographic admitting, in which all of your patients are on the same floor. This ties in nicely with the firm system they use, and they have firm meetings on a regular basis with all the allied health people, social workers, and even consultants from other services,and unit-based governance boards. Another component being developed is the "dashboard" which is a display of quality measures (DVT proph, fall risk, ASA/BB/smoking for MI patients, etc) for your firms patients that pulls the data directly from the EMR. Another component is a required rotation in QI and patient safety along with a portfolio.

The Chair - I thought Dr. Zeidel was very impressive. First, he's got a pretty amazing CV as one would expect a Chair of a Harvard program to have. But he apparently is not one to sit high in the ivory tower writing books. It's clear he's personally involved, doing everything from teaching third and fourth year medical students on their medicine rotations at the BI, to teaching residents, to attending most conferences including the M&M when I was there. He also seemed like a very warm and friendly guy. He specifically mentioned in his talk that he does whatever he can for residents trying to get fellowships, from helping with mentoring to making phone calls.

Residents - The residents stress that the main reason to pick BIDMC is because of the friendly, supportive residents. The handful that I interacted with certainly were friendly and eager to comment on how nice and helpful their fellow residents are. In fact, the intern responsible for coordinating dinner was in the ICU that month and post call and she was still very enthusiastic although tired. It is apparently common practice for residents to pitch in an help a fellow resident on the rare times when one gets slammed. Residents on the ambulatory block are always responsible for setting up Thursday night outings, which tend to be well attended. It is a big program, with 14 transitional interns and 48 categorical interns per class. Interns mentioned that they really don't know everybody in their program. From my counting, only 3 current residents are from Harvard, making me wondering why more HMS students don't choose BID. One explanation I heard is that HMS students basically get to pick where they want to go, and for those interested in basic science research or a really big name place, B&W or MGH would be a better local choice. It seems BID residents tend to be less snobby than MGH or B&W residents, and I certainly didn't pick up on any attitude. Residents seem to come from a variety of medical schools that range from solid (many from state schools) to outstanding (HMS, Hopkins, UCSF, Yale, Columbia, WashU), although there definitely seems to be a New England bias. There are also a handfull of foreign medical grads in each class. When I asked about how it was working with HMS students, one resident said its like anywhere else, one said it was "typical Harvard" (whatever that means, though it didn't sound great) and another seemed to indicate that it can be less than ideal at times, but of course, there's a range. There is a policy at BID that only interns can write non-emergent orders, and people stressed that interns really run the team and residents and faculty are there for guidance. Nobody talked about fellows being involved in the care of patients except to say that the pulm/critical care fellows in the MICU were awesome to work with. When I asked residents if there was any type of applicant who should not pick this residency, none could really identify anybody except maybe those interested in non-academic medicine or those who didn't want to live in Boston. When I asked about what they would change, the only consistent answer I got was the presence of private patients and nobody seemed to have a major pet peeve that they just were fed up with.

Faculty - The faculty really stresses teaching at BID. The different Harvard programs all have a different flavor, and at BID the thing that sets them apart is the emphasis on teaching. BID faculty are the most involved faculty group teaching at HMS and win more HMS teaching awards than any other Boston program. BID has some outstanding resources for teaching their faculty how to teach, and the residents seem to appreciate this emphasis. It is clear that teaching is a valid career path at BID and both faculty and residents are supported in learning how to teach. From what I've read, faculty are rigorously evaluated by residents and they have to "earn" the right to teach, although I didn't hear any specifics when I visited. Many faculty members are very involved in program administration and clearly seem to care deeply about the program and the residents. Beyond being great teachers, there are also some big names here which almost goes without saying since it's a Harvard program. With the private/non-private patient mix, I was concerned about teaching while on service. They have dedicated teaching rounds 4 times/week with faculty who want to teach as opposed to other programs who's attendings are just putting in their 1 month out of the year and really just want to get back to the lab. There is also a good number of nationally-known faculty on staff at BID, including the founder of UpToDate, the current editor-in-chief of the Sanford Guide, the Godfather of EP cardiology, a JAMA editor, characters from House of God (one of which was pointed out to me during a tour, but I won't say which!), and many more.

Patients - Previous posters here at SDN thought BID had an overabundance of geriatric and suburban patients, so I tried to see if current residents felt the same way. One resident did think the patient population might be a little skewed towards older, richer, and Russian-speaking patients but not by much. A number of other interns denied that they saw too many geriatric patients. It was clear to me that BU is the city leader in impoverished/inner-city care. I asked a number of other residents if any particular disease seemed over or under represented, and the only specific group I could find was heart transplant patients, since BID does not have a transplant program. There's also the issue of private patients. Residents said that maybe 5-10% of patients are truely private, whereas another ~20% or so are covered by the hospital-based hospitalist service ("APG"). There are no private patients in the CCU, ICU, or specialty services. Residents to admit that tracking down private attendings can be a hassle. Many of the local physician groups are using hospitalist services more, and the largest one is in-house and gets good reviews in terms of teaching and level of autonomy from both residents and students. From what I've heard, it seems BID falls somewhere between B&W (less) and MGH (more) in terms of resident autonomy.

Conferences - There are different morning reports are for interns and residents. This allows the residents to cover more basic topics like SOB, hypotension, etc, and residents to cover more advanced topics. I asked numerous people if they felt this was disadventageous and none thought it was, and a few liked it. And with the program being as large as it is, it makes the conference smaller. There is a Resident as Teacher program in which trainees in each year receive some formal education in teaching. There is food at each conference, which rotates between different genres of food which residents uniformly loved. On interview day we saw an M&M, which was pretty good. The room was packed as we had a large interview group, with lots of attendings and the residency leadership present and participating, as well as consultants from other services who were involved in the case. There was no noon conference that day; there was one of their great lunches and time to chat informally with residents which was nice. If I recall, they have noon conference ~4 days/week. I did attend teaching rounds, which was good - nice doctor went over a topic that a resident had requested.

Sites/Facilities - BIDMC was formed by the merger of two religious-based hospitals that were started to provide good medical care to those who couldn't get it elsewhere regardless of demographic factors. I felt that sort of spirit remains strong. The BID residents cover the West and East Campus of the BIDMC, although they're being pulled away from the East Campus, partially because they "uncovered" a medicine service on the West Campus and truned it over to a hospitalist service at a cost of $2 million/year because they thought it was stretching the residents too thin in other places. Only rarely do residents have to travel between facilities within the same day - usually it's only for conferences on consult rotations. They rotate at the Joslin Diabetes Center and the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute. They also cover the West Roxbury VA along with residents from BU and B&W. The VA is supposedly pretty typical of most VAs - typical VA patients, typical run-down facilities, and typical questionable ancillary services. Residents do have to start iv's there, and getting imaging can be difficult. Overall, I believe interns spent 4 months there so it's not a trivial amount of time. Many residents commented that they went back to the BI much more appreciative of their great ancillary services, which one resident described as "excellent" and one described as "a range"; one faculty member and the Chair specifically mentioned that BIDMC is a national leader in nursing and that the nursing colleages are great. My tour on the West Campus consisted mostly of the ED, the CCU, and an MICU which all looked reasonably nice although I was more focused on listening to the answers to my questions from my great tour guide. I only spent a few minutes on one of their general medicine wards, which is the last of the bunch to get remodeled, and honestly it looks older and less well kept up and many patient rooms are doubles. The non-patient areas also look old (which they are) and aren't perfectly kept up. The room where most conferences are held looks nice, and across the hall is the resident lounge which looked wonderful - some computers, a big screen TV, couches. People who have seen more Boston-area hospitals say BIDMC is one of the nicer places in town. The EMR at BIDMC is arguably the best in the world. A few years ago Forbes declared BIDMC to be the most "wired" hospital in America, which is ironic since now the push is toward wireless. All clinical data is in there with the exception of daily progress notes. It will print out your daily census for you along with new labs. It's web-based, and you can access it at home. It includes radiology images. Residents raved about it because they said it saves them time. The only part I didn't like was that daily notes go into the chart and never make it into the permanent computer record. You can either old-school hand write your daily notes, or type them up, print them out, and put them in the physical chart. BIDMC also uses a "trigger" system, which serves as a rapid response approach of sorts that I only partially understand. From what I could tell, nurses can call a "trigger" based on defined (i.e.-HR >110) or non-defined triggers (patient just looks bad), which sends a text message to the residents who then have 5 minutes to respond. This has dramatically reduced the number of codes called, and yet keeps the resident team in the loop on their patients. The residents I spoke to seemed to really like it.

Location - Located in the Longwood neighborhood of Boston, this has to be one of, if not the greatest concentrations of medical research and teaching in the world. Within a few blocks there's Harvard Medical School, Mass College of Pharmacy, Brigham and Women's Hospital, Children's Hospital of Boston, BIDMC, Joslin Diabetes Center, and Dana-Farber Cancer Institute. If you include the rest of Boston you have Mass General Hospital, Mass Eye and Ear Infirmary, Tufts-New England Medical Center, Boston University/Boston Medical Center, Harvard University, MIT, and probably a few more great places that I'm forgetting. From my brief time there and speaking with residents, Boston is a young, hip, highly-educated, energetic place. Mass transit seems pretty good, with a mix of subway and buses serving most places. Some residents and faculty mentioned that they are either "no car" or "one car" family because they can easily walk/bike/bus to work. Cost of living is relatively high, although its hard to tell if this is totally adjusted for with the resident compensation. Using cityrating.com, Boston's cost of living is 4.6% higher than the national average, and 8.0% higher than Minneapolis. However, BIDMC residents also get paid more (11.5% more than in Minneapolis), and after dividing intern pay by the local consumer price index from cityrating.com, BIDMC residents get paid 3.3% more than University of Minnesota interns. Of course, this is a crude analysis and does not account for other benefits or lack there of (educational stipend, health insurance, retirement plans), other costs (parking, taxes, perhaps housing), or what significant others might be able to get for a job. Residents weren't taking out loans to live on, but nobody could tell me if they thought they were paid better or worse than residents in other cities. BIDMC is also the "official hospital of the Boston Red Sox" and many people there are huge fans. Ironically, when some players were sick last year they received their care elsewhere. BID residents get cheaper tickets, and can pull medical shifts with the medical crew at Fenway. Many of the ID lanyards have the Sox logo on them and advertise the connection. You see their Red Sox ads all over the place. Not a big deal if you're not a Sox fan, but pretty neat if you're a baseball fan and I always like to see some personality in a program. Heck, I'd probably even become a Sox fan if I went there.

Schedule - The schedule is always changing in response to resident feedback, and what I was told during my visit looks different from what I see on the BIDMC website. Given the frequency of schedule changes I'm starting to pay less attention to the specifics, so forgive me if I get a detail wrong, and please correct me. The important points are that they use a night float system even for the interns on the general medicine services so they can go home and sleep in their own bed. Interns do take call in the CCU (one month) and MICU (two months), which is Q3. A resident I spoke to about call said that she actually really likes Q3 at the BI since she gets out post-call around noon and is allowed to leave as soon as she can on pre-call days, which is usually by 1 pm. Call is team call, although there are occasionally "orphan interns" - with senior residents going home interns will sometimes (q6 or q8) be admitting overnight with a different senior resident. Another resident stressed that the schedule at BID is probably one of the most relaxed schedules anywhere. Interns do, however, spend considerable time on ICU months, with one CCU month and one ICU month and nobody suggested that interns don't work hard enough. All ICUs are closed, and a resident specifically said that the pulm/cc fellows from the Harvard program are great. The ICUs have 24/7 in-house critical care attending backup who can be called for any in-house issues.

Tracks - There is a primary care track that you can start off on or move into during your first year. There also is the ABIM research pathway/"short track" option that they stress is usually only for PhDs or people with many first author publications. There is also an international health program for G3s and is limited to 6 weeks total of which 4 will be counted against vacation time. There is funding of up to $2000/resident available by application, and there is a cap of $12,000/year for all residents, which if my math serves me works out to 6 residents per year out of the 48 residents per class. One of the residents did her "international" program in Alaska with the Indian Health Service. To me the international health program sounds very limited.

Research - There are research electives for residents, although it's unclear to me if the EIP program allows them to increase research time beyond the traditional 3 months per ABIM requirements but one handout claims that you can get up to 6 months of protected research time. The typical way they have residents doing research is to put them through an intense 2-week course called Research for Residents, at the end of G1 or early G2 year in which they go use a very good book and all-day lectures to help plan out their project, and then present an NIH-style proposal to the Physician Scientist Committee to be approved for time off, with the better projects being granted more time. It sounds like a rigorous way of doing things, and I fear that those who are already research-savvy will be bogged down a bit. Most projects are done during G2 or G3 years, although there are a few interns who are doing research because they hooked up with faculty early and are able to scrounge some time where they can from less busy rotations to get a jump on things. In keeping with their emphasis on mentorship, there is also a program called Paths in Research which are months informal dinners with faculty members who talk about life in academia, balancing the demands on a family with clinic time and research time, etc. There is also the CITP program which is a 2-year program that provides industry-sponsored training in clinical investigation that is interwoven with fellowship training, and the Scholars in Clinical Science Program which is another 2-year program in clinical investigation. Both the CITP and SCSP award master's degrees, are Harvard-wide, and CITP is run out of BID. There is also a Summer Program in Clinical Effectiveness, which is an intese 7-week 15-credit course that can be turned into an MPH. Residents who have their work accepted for presentation at a meeting are given time off and their expenses are covered. A handout listed a "house officer bibliography," showing that many residents had multiple publications, many as first author during residency, although I'm not sure how many of those residents were just doing a straight IM residency vs. fast tracking or doing the CITP or SCSP programs.

Fellowships - During my visit they stressed that fellowships, like research, isn't just about learning genreal IM well, publishing research, and getting good letters, but is also very much about proper mentoring. Interns get some emails about mentoring options about half way through their intern year, although some interns seek out mentors much earlier. As mentioned above, the Chair in particular is very much into interacting with residents and advising them as he can. There is also all the program above under "research" that help with fellowship mentoring. Not being as familiar with the North East, it's hard for me to gauge their match list, but in the two areas I'm personally most interested in it looks like they send their grads to some great places. I think they said that 70% go on to fellowships. The popularity of cardiology seems to be on the rise, just like everywhere else.

Cardiology 2006: Cornell, NW, Columbia, Pitt, UMASS, NYU, GW, BIDMC x3
Cardiology 2005: NEMC, Pitt, Lahey, Brown, BIDMC
Cardiology 2004: UPenn, Georgetown, Downstate, UMASS, BIDMC x3

Pulm/Critical 2006:Cleveland Clinic, Emory, Harvard Combined x2
Pulm/Critical 2005: UWashington, Emory, Harvard Combined
Pulm/Critical 2004: Emory, Harvard Combined x4
 
It's actually an official ACGME requirement, not just a trend, that interns cannot admit more than 5 patients on a call night, nor carry more than 12 patients at a time. See the following document, page #21, section 2.a (this is the official ACGME "internal medicine program requirements" document):

http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/downloads/RRC_progReq/140pr703_u704.pdf

It states that interns can only admit SEVEN patients if two of them are in-house transfers from other medical services (such as ICUs). This same section of the document also states the "cap of 12" rule that others have mentioned; this is indeed an official ACGME rule, not just a trend that most programs follow (as some have alleged in previous posts). Per the ACGME, interns can carry a maximum total of 12 patients at any given time.

If programs are not following these rules then they are in clear violation of ACGME requirements, and could legitimately be reported and disciplined accordingly. These rules exist to protect patients and to help prevent burnout, so don't let your program walk all over you; if they're clearly violating the rules then you should report them.

there are components of the ACGME that are beginning to be enfoced more strictly this year, namely, 10 hours off between each shifts. This create problems for programs with nightfloat systems, which i personally believe is rather perverse. That being said, the call system at BWH is being revamped as we speak to address this, and will likely change significantly starting next year. With regards to the daily cap at 7, currently cards and half of general medicine service are the only ones that uses that cap. If the new system that I prefer do get selected, the cap for general medicine will be 6 per admit day for all teams.

I'll be happy to answer any questions that any applicant might have about our call system once that is finally decided. If anyone would like to share innovations at your program that has helped with ACGME compliance, I'd love to hear them as well.
 
Thanks Acadet for that excellent review of BID. I felt like I'd gone there after reading it since it was so detailed! I found it very helpful.
 
I heard from an applicant who recently interviewed at Case-UH that 3 interns already left the program this year. rumors were that it was partly due to violation of the 80hour work week, but i thought that was interesting if it's true.

sure residents are going to tell you their program is great but that's b/c those residents matched there! some of them dont want to admit that they matched to a program that sucks! and i'm not saying Case-UH is a bad program. I've heard from many people that it's a competitive and strong program with a great PD. i just think it's interesting that residents will never admit how many interns/residents leave or get kicked out or are on probation.
 
i just think it's interesting that residents will never admit how many interns/residents leave or get kicked out or are on probation.

well, would you? and there's a big difference between not admitting it voluntarily vs. lying about it if/when asked. if you encounter the latter, that's inappropriate, but otherwise put yourself in their shoes--would you want to use the limited time you have at the interview to hear about this, when it would only serve to dissuade you from wanting to choose their program? if you want to know, just ask, and you should get an honest answer--you'll definitely get an honest answer if you ask the PD. but be fair and ask why the residents left if it so happens that some did. was it voluntarily or were they asked to leave? if it was voluntary, was it because of a personal issue as far as they know or did it have something to do with the program? you might get a vague answer to that one, but sometimes people leave for reasons that have nothing to do with the program and everything to do with something else going on in their personal life, and thus should not be viewed as a reflection on the program quality. plus residents may not want to discuss it not because they're deliberately trying to hide it but because they want to share their own experience and maybe consider asking (if it's true that others left because of the program itself) why they've stayed around. don't blame a resident for not wanting to volunteer info about someone else in their program who chose to leave for whatever reason. some may see it as unprofessional gossip, and some may not want to comment on it if they don't know the whole story, which is the mature thing to do in my opinion. find the whole story, go by facts and not gossip, and then make your own conclusions. don't fault the resident for not wanting to share that info...i doubt you would when you're giving tours at your own program in a year or two.
 
Maybe just naive confusion. At a program in Boston with the letters B and W in it, an intern can take 7 on a call night on our GMS services. In addition we do cap at a total of 12 pts per intern at any one time. This means if you go into call with 8 pts you can only take 4 more. However if you have 5 pts then you can get the call cap of 7 pts and you hit the intern cap of 12 pts total. Just you wait, it can only make you stronger. And possibly darker. And more jaded. BTW I have had 12 pts several times in my first 6 months of internship. It is tough but not impossible.

Just to clarify, unless they've gotten rid of short call all together at BWH, the intern cap of 7 in a call night is only for saturday and sunday calls. Calls during the week cap at 5 admissions per intern. This is still following the ACGME rules, because the weekend on-call team often get 2-3 "holdover" admissions admitted by the night float the night before, which count towards their admissions cap for that call night. (these can be considered a transfer of service rather than fresh admissions).

Then again, it sounds like they're revamping their call system again, which is a step in the right direction. IMHO their call system never made much sense to me and didn't seem that efficient.
 
Disclaimer - I'm a medical student at the U of Minnesota, and rotated through Abbott Northwestern for my first medicine rotation. Students have their own attending rounds and teaching conferences, and as a student on the rotation I didn't regularly interact with the patients' attending physician. Because of this setup, I never felt like I really got to live in a resident's shoes while at Abbott even though I thought I got an excellent educational experience.

Overall - The IM program is relatively small and very well designed to provide a highly-regulated experience combining a constant supply of just the right number of patients within a humane work schedule all surrounded by some of the best teachers, nurses, facilities, ane electronic teachnology in the Twin Cities. Downsides for some might include the relative lack of graduates going into fellowships, the inability to get extra experience in primary care

The Program Director - The program director is a hospitalist and has been involved as an APD and then PD for 5 years, taking over for the former PD (Dr. Rosborough). Very nice, a great teacher, approachable, on a first name basis with most everyeone, and someone who clearly cares about his residents and really seems to enjoy his job.

The Chair - Since it's a "community" program (though for what it's worth the faculty hold University of Minnesota appointments) they don't have a Chair, but they do have a director of education, Dr. Terry Rosborough. Dr. Rosborough took over the program in the early 1980s when it was on probation, and really made it into a solid program. He is really a health IT early adopter, and runs the iPaq program at Abbott Northwestern (ANW). Each resident gets an iPaq that includes UpToDate, Epocrates, and Dr. Rosborough's own "folder set" - a collection of useful tools ranging from the current pager numbers for all staff to clinical prediction rules and diagnostic algorithms. The software gets updated regularly, and graduates can continue to update their folder set after they graduate. Dr. Rosborough was also the head of ANW's EMR program, which now uses a relatively mature implementation of Epic, called Excelion. It is highly customized for ANW and is designed to be very physician-friendly. All charting is done in Epic/Excelion, including admission H&Ps, discharge summaries, daily notes, order entry, I/Os, EKGs, imaging...everything. There are tons of templates making it very easy to do your daily notes, and you can create and save your personal templates that will automagically pull in patient data (daily labs, previous labs, I/Os, etc). You can access it from home as well. I've used the EMR at Mayo and briefly seen the one at Beth Israel Deaconess, and I think ANW's EMR is the nicest.

Residents - There are 10 residents per class, all categorical. The majority, 60% over 3 years, are from the University of Minnesota, with the others from other midwestern schools including DO schools and and foreign medical schools. They didn't fill once a few years ago. On interview day there was really only 30 minutes slotted to spend alone with residents (other than time with the Chief Residents), and this was during work rounds in which my resident was busy writing some patient notes. The resident I was with was an FMG, was very nice, and seemed happy. I know one current resident had the choice of going to some very prestigious places nationally and choice to go to ANW. Three graduating residents are brought on as Chief Residents per year, and are treated as faculty physicians and paid $130,000 for the year. They have significant clinical responsibilities in addition to administrative and teaching duties. Many faculty members were once Chief Residents. Residents also have ample moonlighting time, including within the hospital. G2s can earn up to $28,000 and G3s may earn up to $73,000 in addition to their regular stipends. ANW also does a fantastic job of paying for all the little things, including PDA, membership dues, UpToDate, a moving allowance, parking, meals, ABIM exam, review course, etc. When I asked what kind of applicant shouldn't come, the best answer I got was those who are just book worms and not enthusiastic.

Faculty - The core faculty are the Abbott Northwestern General Medicine Associates, and is currently about 30 internists. They are merging with the other hospitalist practice that covers Abbott and will end up being about 50 people in size. In talking with the PD, he explained how they are selecting from that group of 50 to get a core of 25-30 teaching hospitalists - only those who want to teach, are willing to put in the serious effort, have been in the practice for at least a year, and get good teaching evaluations. He expects that there will be competition for teaching positions with only those getting good reviews being allowed to teach. Faculty typically come from private practice and Abbott Northwestern. In my opinion, some of the best teachers and wisest internists are on faculty at Abbott. Residents report that they are given as much autonomy as they want, although it's attending and situation-dependent. Since you could have different attendings for each patient, "rounding" with the big team marching through the entire census really doesn't happen, something that some residents really like. I don't have any personal observations regarding the level of autonomy (see disclaimer) but I suspect it's reasonably high.

Patients - The patients of ANW tend to be about 1/3 from the local neighborhood (mostly poor, many recent immigrants, many minorities), 1/3 are from the general Twin Cities area, and 1/3 are from outstate Minnesota, North Dakota, and South Dakota. Residents seem to think that they get a good amount of diversity without being dominated by any one particular socioeconomic group. ANW does some heart (~8 per year) and some kidney tranplants. ANW has a huge cardiology practice in it, and they are a "level 1" MI center and a national leader in treating STEMIs, offering great door-to-baloon times for a huge chunk of the state with their well-run ED-to-helicopter-to-cath lab service. When I asked about what types of patients residents didn't see enough of, I was told that heme/onc, transplant, and the associated specialty ID was weaker especially compared to the University, along with psychiatry just like everywhere else due to the lack of psychiatrists, and derm. They've hired a med-derm person who will significantly improve their derm teaching. With the very large hospitalist service, the Chief Residents can make sure that all teams remain fairly balanced. Many of the local docs prefer to have their patients on the teaching service, so the teaching service has the luxury of being able to deflect some less than stellar teaching cases to the hospitalist service. If you're team has a member who's out sick, the chiefs can reduce the number of admissions you get that day. Faculty feel strongly that residents need to see a certain number of patients yet if they get too busy they don't learn as much because they don't have enough time per patient and time to read. The ability of the program to maintain a constant and reasonable workload is seen as a major plus of this program. ANW has the reputation for being the least busy of the 3 IM programs in the Twin Cities, probably because they were the first to reduce hours pre-ACGME rules, the first in town with night float, and with their hospitalist service are able to regulate the number of patients on each team pretty closely. Those who have actually compared hours spent between the places say that they are all pretty close and depending on variations in census, ANW may actually be busier than other places at times.

Conferences - There are a lot of different types of conference and rounds at ANW. The specifics are still hard for me to grasp in fine detail, but include teaching attending rounds every day M-F for up to an hour. There is then a case-based conference from 11:30 to 12:00. The case based conference has one of the Chief Residents presenting an interesting case with one of the core teaching faculty members leading the discussion and writing on the board, similar to what other residencies do for morning report, except the faculty seems to dominate the discussion more. The last 5-10 minutes of the case is a formal presentation by the Chief Resident on the topic covered. Residents grab lunch from the cafeteria, located just next to the conference room from 12-12:15. The Specialty conference at 12:15 is typically given by one of the private practice specialists who admit to ANW and are interested in teaching and covers 125 core specialty topics. There are weekly grand rounds on Wednesday morning, well attended by both residents, core teaching staff, and other medical staff, good cases with nice discussions by subspecialists as needed. And there are a variety of other seminars and conferences, including a "real world" series for G3s covering personal finance, billing and coding, etc. Residents typically attend at least 75% of all sessions according to the website, and in talking with residents they say they are typically able to attend even more than that. All conference slides are available online for review. The ABIM pass rate is in the top 10% in the country.

Sites/Facilities: The main site is Abbott Northwestern Hospital, a 600 bed private not-for-profit (like all MN hospitals) hospital in Minneapolis and the largest hospital in Minnesota. The only residency at ANW is the IM residency, although there are a few surgery residents, some GI and cardiology fellows from the University of Minnesota, and a few other IM subspecialty fellows from the University of Minnesota. About half the hospital is the new "heart hospital" which looks more like a hotel than a hospital, rivaling most of the nicest hospitals in the US. In the new heart hospital there are two computers for each room (all singles), one in the room and one on a desk outside the room, in addition to those at the nurses station. The heart hospital is also covered by a Vocera system, allowing nurses to easily talk to one another and to doctors, and receive phone calls from wherever. The old section of the hospital is very well maintained, with about half the rooms being doubles. Computers are about as plentiful as in the new heart hospital. As a student is was very rare that I had to wait for a computer, and that was only when I was with my team. There is also a new, very nice, relatively large on-site gym available to residents and faculty. The cafeteria is pretty good by hospital standards, and residents get ample meal allowances. Residents also have 24/7 access to the doctor's lounge, including 3-5 varieties of Star Bucks coffee available at anytime, fruit, donuts, bagels, and cereal, all in a cozy and comfortable lounge. Teams typically meet in the doctors lounge in the AM before splitting up to see their patients. The emergency department is large and modern, having an 8 bed area that's open 24/7 that expands to 30 beds during busy times. They also have a short stay area that patients can be sent to for up to 24 hours, reducing the number of questionable admissions from the ED. The ED is staffed by EM-trained docs and the IM residents and a few students from the University of Minnesota. Nursing and ancillary staff at ANW is superb. The outpatient experiences are at a general internal medicine office across the street from the hosptial - the rooms used to be used for PT so they are comfortably large, and pretty modern. Their main clinic ha a full time social worker and interpreters are available. The other clinic is a new facility located in Edina, a wealthy suburb, and the facility includes a large cardiology clinic, ortho, PT/OT, imaging, laboratory, in addition to the general internal medicine clinic. The pictures of that clinic look gorgeous but I haven't seen it myself. The residents are said to spend significantly more time in outpatient medicine than required by ABIM, but there is no way to increase outpatient time. Through a cooperative agreement with the University of Minnesota's IM residency, Abbott residents can do specialty rotations at the University of Minnesota if they wish. Abbott has 70 ICU beds, of which 21-30 are staffed by the medicine services. They are open ICUs with in-house pulm/cc docs ~20 hours/day but no fellows, so residents follow their patients before, during, and after their ICU stay. One Chief who's planning to go into critical care said he really likes following patients in and out of the unit, and he feels he's gotten more critical care time than those who just do a month or two in the unit since teams regularly have patients in the ICU. One G2 said that after 2-3 months following patients in and out of the ICU as an intern makes you feel comfortable with ICU medicine - something I have great trouble believing but its clear that he feels he's gotten a lot of ICU experience.

For the past few years the University of Minnesota and Abbott were in discussions about a merger. Residents would have a "home base" and get to do speciatly/elective rotations of their choice at the different hospitals covered by both programs (Abbott for ANW, and the U hospitals - Fairview-University, Regions/Ramsey County, and the VA). All parties involved thought the merger would be beneficial for all , and much work was put into figuring out the details. Very recently the Allina board voted no and there are currently no plans to merge. Both sides report being disappointed but not unhappy with their colleagues, and there was some good ground work laid to allow residents to rotate at the other institutions and some residents have already done this, typically doing subspecialty rotations in areas of strength at the University hospital. The University program apparently lacks some outpatient experiences and there are some residents who's continuity clinic is at the Abbott clinic, and all parties report this is going well. Both places forsee residents continuing to get the opportunity to do some rotations at the other institutions, especially now that their rotation calendars match up. Reportedly among the core faculty at the U and ANW there are no hard feelings, although it's hard to know if people less in the know will see the "failed" merger in some strange way and what spin it will take. As one faculty said, "that's the concern."

Location - ANW is located in the Phillips Neighborhood of Minneapolis, which is one of the worst, if not the worst, neighborhoods in the Twin Cities. As I said above, the people living in the Phillips neighborhood tend to be poor, recent immigrants, and/or mostly minorities. Recently Allina, the parent organization, moved their main headquarters into a largely abandoned building just a few blocks from the hospital, and there is a program encouraging Allina staff to purchase homes in the area, and it's said to be improving. The area is considered to be less than safe at night but around the hospital is perfectly safe in daylight in my opinion. Access to the ramps is by underground tunnels and I haven't hear anybody who's scared to walk to their car at night. There is a private Allina security force around.

Schedule - There are 6 general internal medicine residence service teams comprised of a G2, G1, a medical student, and a teaching attending who is different from the patients' attendings. Call is Q6, with nightfloat allowing the G1 to go home by 11 pm. Interns never stay overnight, and there is never cross cover except that provided by the nightfloat. The G2 stays overnight Q6. You get one day off per week, always either a Saturday or Sunday. Interns do one month of outpatient or elective, on month on a consults and procedure rotation (including taking patients to radiology for US or fluro, and doing the procedures with guidance from the radiologist), one month night float, one month ICU, and one month vacation. In G2 you do 1-2 elective months and a month in the ED. G3 year you get 10 months of subspecialty rotations or electives. The schedule is notable for two things: 1) the lack of overnight call except for 8 months of q6 in the G2 year and any overnight call you might have on electives or subspecialty rotations; and 2) the back-loaded schedule with almost all subspecialty time in the G3 year. Interns typically see all of their patients with their G2 on ward months until November, after which they see those patients by themselves. Residents have a half day per week of clinic, and is never scheduled while residents are on call or post call.

Tracks - There are no tracks at ANW. Electives can help focus you in whatever areas you want, however, including rotations at the University of Minnesota IM program's 3 hospitals. Residents can't add elective outpatient time to their schedule from what I was told. Recently very few grads have been going into primary care, although there is some ebb and flow, and the recent expansion of hospitalists in the Twin Cities has definitely sucked up many ANW grads.

Research - Research isn't a huge focus at ANW, but the administration understand the value of research and importance of research for competitive fellowships and are very supportive of those who want to do research. The Minneapolis Heart Institute is the cardiology group in-house, and they do a good deal of clinical research. Residents can do up to 5 months of research in their residency, with 2 blocks in G1 year and 3 in G2 year, and many residents are able to use their less demanding rotations to get research done. If one is motivated, you surely could get in a lot of research time.

Fellowships - There is a strong GI and cardiology fellow presence as ANW is a main site for those two University-based fellowships, and Allina sponsors one position in each per year, and there are a few other fellows from other sub-specialties. According to the webpage about 25% of residents intent to go on to subspecialty training, although I thought they said the number can be as high as 50%. Many residents do a chief year or work as a hospitalist for a year before fellowship. They have had some matches in GI in the past few years, but since I'm most interested in cardiology and pulmonary/critical care, and I've been doing this for other programs, I'll list just those matches for consistency. Please note that their class size is only 10.

Cardiology 2007: Univ. of Minnesota
Cardiology 2006: none
Cardiology 2005: none
Cardiology 2004: Univ. of Minnesota
Cardiology 2003: none
Cardiology 2002: Univ. of Minnesota
Cardiology 2000: Univ. of Main

Pulm/CC 2007: Univ. of Oregon
Pulm/CC 2006: none
Pulm/CC 2005: Univ. of Oregona
Pulm/CC 2004: none
Pulm/CC 2003: HCMC (straight CC)
 
(removed double post)
 
I heard from an applicant who recently interviewed at Case-UH that 3 interns already left the program this year. rumors were that it was partly due to violation of the 80hour work week, but i thought that was interesting if it's true.

sure residents are going to tell you their program is great but that's b/c those residents matched there! some of them dont want to admit that they matched to a program that sucks! and i'm not saying Case-UH is a bad program. I've heard from many people that it's a competitive and strong program with a great PD. i just think it's interesting that residents will never admit how many interns/residents leave or get kicked out or are on probation.
Can anybody confirm or deny these rumors. I interviewed at this program earlier in the season and didn't hear anything about it.
 
Just to clarify, unless they've gotten rid of short call all together at BWH, the intern cap of 7 in a call night is only for saturday and sunday calls. Calls during the week cap at 5 admissions per intern. This is still following the ACGME rules, because the weekend on-call team often get 2-3 "holdover" admissions admitted by the night float the night before, which count towards their admissions cap for that call night. (these can be considered a transfer of service rather than fresh admissions).

Then again, it sounds like they're revamping their call system again, which is a step in the right direction. IMHO their call system never made much sense to me and didn't seem that efficient.

No short call for interns at the Brigham, that stopped last year. If holdovers can count as transfers then maybe the system makes sense, though no guarantees. Meeting on revamping the call system soon, so there may be changes by early next year.
 
Hi. I havent really heard anything about these SOCAL programs. Anybody interview here yet and have some impressions/ insights? I would really appreciate it.
 
The SOCAL programs broke off the continent and sunk into the ocean with the rest of the state. Sorry.
 
Anyone interviewed at UVA recently or from UVA med school? Any thoughts?
I'm debating whether or not to take them up on the interview offer.
Google
 
Disclaimer - I've only been to the UW medical area once. The interview day was disappointing in that we weren't shown much of the clinical areas or given much of look at the day-to-day activities of the residency. Out of the three major sites, I barely saw two of them. The number of residents available to talk with also seemed limited so my comments below are based on only getting to talk to ~4 residents. And the faculty I was able to talk with were admittedly not knowledgeable about the residency administration and were limited to one clinical site. My focus in this review is on the traditional pathway, and unless I specify otherwise that's the track I'm referring to. A while ago I asked some questions about UW, and BigBadBix stepped up to the plate and really gave some great answers to my questions in this thread.

Overall - Major strengths are one of the strongest general IM departments in the US, a great academic focus, 3 solid clinical sites and WWAMI access providing great diversity, and a good mix of smart residents and great faculty. Weaknesses are those associated with a large program, including some trouble getting to know everybody and perhaps some administrative hassles as part of a large university, and a faculty, administration, and residents that seems less progressive/more traditional about duty hour philosophy.

The Program Director - The program director, Dr. Wallace, has been the PD for 30 years. He gave a ~30 minute talk along with an associate PD, Dr. Wipf, and answered questions. At previous sessions and the one I was at he never mentioned that he's stepping down, although it was asked and he said that he's retiring and they're looking for a new PD. He didn't say when a replacement would be announced, but a resident thought it would be after the next years class starts. He said the transition will be seamless and that he'll remain involved whether the new PD likes it or not.

The Chair - I never saw the chair nor do I know anything about him. His role in the residency was never mentioned other than briefly showing a picture of him in the outdoors.

Residents - There are 176 total residents, which includes 28 in the traditional/categorical track, 10 in the Seattle Primary Care track, 10 in the Boise Primary Care track, 12 prelims, and 9 chief residents (the numbers don't add up since they're dropping a site). Residents do say that it is hard to get to know everybody, but they certainly do seem to make an effort to have social outings weekly. Residents come from all over the US, very few FMGs, and the single biggest feeder school is the University of Washington. Talking to residents and students, I got the impression that Seattle seems to get the more serious students who want to be in the Pacific Northwest. The residents in my morning report seemed extremely capable and smart. A resident commented that it's a pretty relaxed place, and around December most R1s begin thinking about dropping the ties depending on who their attending is. The G1 I spent time with seemed tired but the two G2s I spent time with seemed really happy and very satisfied with the program.

Faculty - It's hard to generalize about the faculty of such a large program, but a common theme is that they all tend to be solid to excellent teachers who give a good amount of autonomy. The faculty I talked with mentioned that they typically only round with the team three times per week and otherwise see patients by themselves and talk with the residents as needed. The attending I saw running a morning report was very friendly and I wouldn't have been surprised to hear somebody call him by his first name, although nobody did.

Patients - The patients of this program by report seem to be a reflection of the diversity of the sites, of Seattle, and of the huge catchment area which includes the WWAMI region (Washington, Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, Idaho).

Conferences - Each site has resident morning report. It is not intended for interns and it seems interns make very few of these as they are busy getting work done. The morning report I saw was amazing, with 5 out of the 8 residents there actively participating in a detailed, evidence-based discussion complete with references to some very recent literature and the limitations of what is known. The morning report was led by a faculty member who after presenting a medical unknown picture let the Chief Resident run the report, only piping in when asked directly or when he had something important to add. They also have medical grand rounds held at the University that are teleconferenced to Harborview, the Puget Sound VA, and the Boise VA. Noon conference is held at each hospital and covers the core IM topics and the attendance is reportedly very good. Interns have a teaching conference weekly from June - August covering the common "what if" scenarios. There is also a July residents as teachers course.

Sites/Facilities - A major strength of the program is that it covers three hospitals - The University of Washington Medical Center, Harborview Medical Center (the county hospital), and the Puget Sound VA. A fourth site, Providence, is being dropped. The Chair made a big point of saying that it was being dropped not because of any fallout, but because the purpose it once served is no longer needed. There is also the Boise VA where residents in the Primary Care Boise program spend a year. Harborview is a nice, 351-bed county hospital that controls the Medic One ambulance system. The level 1 trauma center has no emergency medicine residency and very few EM-trained staff, allowing medicine residents to learn EM from internists (and surgeons), which some people think is a big plus. Residents felt that their ED training was superb. The Univ of Washington Medical Center is a 450-bed tertiary care medical center located on the University campus. The Puget Sound VA has 90 medicine beds and an attached nursing home unit and primary care facility. Not all VAs are created equal, and their VA honestly looked on the run down side of the spectrum. Parking is not covered at any of the sites (though free at the VA), and most residents have a decent commute, about 15-25 minutes, to at least 2 of the 3 sites in Seattle. Sometimes residents on ambulatory rotations have to travel between sites during the day. The VA uses CPRS, and the other two sites use two systems that are being condensed into one. Residents don't seem to like the systems and report being able to do patient care despite the computer systems.

Location - The city of Seattle was considered a major plus by everyone I talked to. The city provides a great balance between urban and the great outdoors, with beautiful combination of mountains and water and green and city. There is also plenty to do. It seems residents don't have a problem finding housing, and live all over the city. The UW campus is also gorgeous.

Schedule - The program claims that a major strength is its flexibility, although there is zero flexibility in the first year, which is entirely spent in direct care of patients. There is also concern about the ability of residents to get their electives of choice, although those I talked to got their first and second choices. In R1 you spend 3 months on general IM wards, 1 month in the ICU at Harborview and 1 month in the ICU at UW (plus ICU time in the open ICU of the VA), and then 1 month spent in cardiology, onc, neur, gerontology, EM, and 2 weeks on night float, and zero electives. Call is Q4 everywhere except Harborview ward medicine which is Q5. Continuity clinic is one day per week. In R2 year you spend 3 months on general inpatient IM, a CCU month an ICU month, and two months of ambulatory medicine. Two-thirds of R3 year is spent in subspecialty consult rotations. There is also a new 2 week procedure rotation. Both residents and faculty seemed annoyed by the ACGME work hour restrictions and seem to be on more more traditional/less progressive side of the spectrum, and the program was recently on probation primarily for work hour violations. The challenge appears to be more in the 30 hour rule than the 80 hour rule, as many residents and faculty seem to believe in the "get your own work done" philosophy although at least one current R1 SDNer says that people do pitch in to help get people out on time. Residents said that they are currently being monitored very closely and that they are irritated at getting emails warning residents when their interns are close to being in violation or are in violation. In the past people have said that the program seems very inflexible, and I got a little of that jive on interview day, although I suspect it's due to program size and is perhaps changing. Current residents point out the frequent surveys, meetings, etc to try to get resident feedback, and the PD highlighted one significant change made in response to being on probation that was subsequently given a major overhaul due to resident feedback. There are also a systematic electronic evaluation process for residents as teacher.

Tracks - UW has 3 tracks - Traditional (categorical), Primary Care - Seattle, and Primary Care - Boise. The tracks only differ slightly, they all include the same amount of call, and residents say that unless you ask you would never know what track somebody is in. Destination after residency doesn't seem to be affected much if at all, with many people going from the primary care tracks into subspecialty fellowships.

Research - The University of Washington Dept. of Medicine was ranked #1 among public research institutions and second overall for NIH research funding, although this doesn't translate into a big research focus for the residents. There is the ABIM research pathway, which residents can select to do up to December of their R2 year. Not everybody is accepted into the program and they don't guarantee a fellowship slot afterwards. Residents aren't given any research time in the R1 year nor do most have time to do research on the side. It seems most research time is in the R3 year. Residents meet twice per year with the PD or an Assistant PD, their clinic supervise serves as a mentor, but otherwise there is no formal mentoring program. The PD said that this approach was part of a method and seemed to dismiss efforts to assign residents to mentors as artificial.

Fellowships - The program is clearly focused on training excellent general internists first and foremost. The program obviously believes, and their faculty is living proof, that it is certainly possible to be an excellent academic general internist. They also clearly believe that a solid grounding in general IM makes for good subspecialty medicine. The University of Washinton's subspecialty strengths seem to be in pulmonary/critical care, and infectious disease. Cardiology, the subspecialty I'm most interested in, was cited as one of their least strong areas, although it is by no means weak. The number of residents matching into cardiology seems to fluxuate widely. I asked a cardiology-bound R2, and his/her thought was that many are choosing to do a chief year or working as a hospitalist for a year before cardiology fellowship, and that maybe many who are interested in cardiology are being sucked into pulm/cc and/or general internal medicine since those are such a strenghts at UW. The cardiology-bound residents certainly end up in some great places. One thing to be considered is that there are only two cardiology programs in the Pacific Northwest - UW and OHSU, making it perhaps more difficult for graduates to easily get into cardiology programs than if UW was located around more cardiology fellowships. Pulmonary and critical care fellowships are dominated by UW, which is probably a good thing since they are widely considered to be one of the top programs in the US.

Cardiology 2006: Texas Heart
Cardiology 2005: UCSF, UW
Cardiology 2004: Cleveland Clinic x2, UW, UMich
Cardiology 2003: UMich, Mt Sinai, Emory, UCSF, UVA
Cardiology 2002: Duke, Cedar-Sinai, UW, UTSA, Wilford-Hall
Cardiology 2000: Vanderbilt


Pulm/CC 2006: UW, Sinai, Boise
Pulm/CC 2005: UWx3
Pulm/CC 2004: UWx2
Pulm/CC 2003: UWx3
Pulm/CC 2002: none
Pulm/CC 2001: UWx2
 
In my view, Adcadet, that's a pretty acurate reflection of the interview day. I differ in that, I thought I had plenty of opportunity to interact with residents and interns alike. Probably interacted with 8 or so residents -- all except one seemed really happy, and had very few negative things to say. I felt like I could totally get along well with them.

The rest --3 hospital system, administration, city etc -- totally agree with Adcadet.

One other thing worth mentioning is the residents mentioned the attendings are super awesome, and the lack of involvement by the PD and Chair, is more than made up for. The 2 faculty I interviewed with (subspecialists who didn't know too much about the program), but served as attendings on the wards, and were amongst the best faculty members I've seen on the interview trail. very collegial and personable people.

Just my 2 cents on the program. But I'd love to hear what other applicants or residents from the program feel about it.
 
Anyone interviewed at UVA recently or from UVA med school? Any thoughts?
I'm debating whether or not to take them up on the interview offer.
Google

Uva is a phenomenal program with awesome people in a beautiful place that is second to none. It is WELL worth checking out. Be sure to go to Monticello and tour the undergrad campus while you are there.
 
Thanks Adcadet for the amazing reviews. You should quit your day job! I bet there's a market for it. Anyway…. unfortunately, my attention span is nearing zero this time of year, so my impressions will be quite a bit more abbreviated than Adcadet's. But if anyone has questions beyond what I've mentioned on the few programs I've seen so far, then please don't hesitate to ask…

Rush
This was my first interview, and I did not pick up on too many details, unfortunately, so I will defer to comments above. All I can say is that the PD seemed very involved and enthusiastic about the program. Also, I interviewed with the Chairman who was also very personable and knowledgeable about trends in medicine, etc. Unfortunately, I interviewed on a Saturday, but the residents I did come in contact with appeared very happy and seemed to know their fellow residents well.

NW
I was more impressed with this program than I thought I would be… I think they are definitely on their way up. Biggest draws for me are the emphasis on early mentorship/career planning, the PD, and protected resident research time for competitive fellowship placement. Also, adequate resident autonomy.
PD: I think Dr. Wayne is a HUGE plus for this program. She is the most enthusiastic PD that I have ever met. She makes it a point to review all of the applicants files and gives each applicant personal attention. I met many residents that attributed their success and career development to the guiding hand of the PD. She not only knew all of the residents by name but also knew about their interests, hobbies, etc. She makes it a point to meet with interns early on and throughout residency to help them reach their career goals via making phone calls, asking for letters, setting up research opportunities, etc.
Chairman: A new chairman is in the works and the possibilities are on the down low right now. I know this typically creates quite a buzz around the proverbial water cooler, but I don't believe it will much affect residents. This is a strong DOM, and they will choose a similar chair capable of bringing in money, faculty, etc. Plus, it's not like you are going to see any real changes for at least 3-4 years.
Residents: The residents seemed very friendly and helpful. All were very well-dressed, and I got the impression that shopping Michigan Ave was a favorite pastime. I'm personally not quite that "fancy," but this could have just been the impression I got from the few residents I happened to bump into. I followed a ward team, and the resident seemed to run the show which was nice. Fellows take home call in the MICU, so residents get to run the ICU service as well. Personally, I think that if you want to know about resident autonomy, you should look at how the MICU is run.
Patient Population: More diverse than I would have thought. It seems they get a nice mix of underserved and well-insured patients. All races appear represented, and private patients have recently been eliminated.
Teaching Conferences: I only got to see grand rounds, but they had an amazing speaker from half way across the country. And it was very well attended though I imagine most grand rounds would be.
Hospitals/Services: They have a 500-bed main academic medical center (which is AMAZING ..more like a 4 star hotel than a hospital) and a new? 90-bed VA (which I did not get to see) shared with UIC residents. Not sure about the VA, but ancillary services at the main hospital are great and there are NO paper charts whatsoever. In fact, residents liked the computer system so much that some bragged about writing patient notes, etc from home.
Location: I grew up in Chicago, so I think that the city pretty much speaks for itself. There is something for just about everyone unless you dislike big cities or need a big outdoors escape (no real skiing or great hiking/rafting scenes nearby). However, the lake is a real plus in the summers, and I love running/biking along the lake-side trail. As far as cost of living goes, I believe Chicago is on the lower side when compared to other big cities (i.e. San Fran, New York, Boston)… but it might be a bit more pricey where most of the residents said they lived in Streeterville within walking distance of the main hospital. Streeterville is a swanky Chicago neighborhood right within the Mag mile, etc. However, the public transportation Chicago is great for the Loop and near north/west sides, so you could definitely live elsewhere. Buying property might be an issue, though. Unfortunately, the undergrad campus, itself, is in a northern suburb of Chicago called Evanston and not within striking distance of the NW medical campus.
Schedule: So, I can't recall the break down of ward months vs. ambulatory, though I remember it being pretty standard stuff. They recently eliminated ON call (short and long call system only) on the wards to help meet work hour standards. The residents really felt this made their time in-house more educational as well, and no one had any reservations about the new system.
Fellowships: Overall, the program seemed really strong in Cards, GI, and Pulm/CC. Placement seemed in accordance with other biggies: obviously NW and surrounding Midwest spots, but I saw some Hopkins, MGH, UCLA, Duke, and Mayo.

U Chicago
PD: Dr. Woodruff definitely gives applicants/residents personal attention. His office is right in the housestaff lounge area along with the Chiefs offices so you see him all the time.
Chairman: Dr. Garcia is a busy man, but for good reason… He is drawing more and more distinguished faculty to U of C not to mention research dollars. The DOM is well-respected and in my opinion, the hospital really runs around the DOM and the IM residency program.
Residents: I can attest to the fact that the residents here are amazing! They are all super smart and extremely friendly. I think the sense of humor among the residents is probably what I enjoy the most. Everyone offers to help each other out, and you will easily know everyone as the program is small. Residents definitely hang out outside of work, and the softball team last year was pretty great.
Patient Population: 90% or so medicare/caid, and I know we see some very complex cases… along with the usual stuff, of course. However, I would say the population is predominantly African American. UChicago has never had private patients, so this is not an issue at all.
Teaching Conferences: The daily morning reports are great and well-attended by residents/interns. There is weekly noon intern report as well (always breakfast and lunch, by the way). There are also various lecture series depending on what ward month you are on… I know for a fact the MICU lecture series and teaching is AMAZING. There are also medical education teaching series in place and awards for resident teachers.
Hospitals/Services: 500-bed or so main academic medical center (older, standard adult hospital with new MICU). Ancillary services can sometimes leave something to be desired. I mean you are not drawing your own blood or doing your own transports or anything, but you have to double-check on lab draws and IR/rads procedures and orders often. The nursing staff is working on magnet status as we speak, so this may improve. Also, paper charting is still in effect. The only items on the computer system are labs, imaging, and dictated discharge summaries and clinic/op notes. The CPOE system is supposedly in the works for 2007/2008? but I'm not sure what this will entail.
Location: See above for general comments on Chicago. Specifically, U Chicago is located in the neighborhood of Hyde Park which contains the undergraduate campus. Hyde Park is on the southeast side of Chicago right along side the lake. I think it is a charming, quiet community with a few great restaurants, bakeries and bookstores. However, there is virtually no night life and for this, you would have to travel to a northern part of the city (about 10 min away by car). Also, public transportation is great in Chicago, but not to Hyde Park. So, while many residents live in the more happening neighborhoods of the city like Lakeview, Lincoln Park, Wrigleyville, Wicker Park, South Loop, etc… you would most likely need a car to drive into work.
Schedule: So, this differs depending on CAT vs. prelim, but for a categorical intern, I believe there is about 9 months or so of call? divided up between gen med, cards, heme-onc, MICU, and CCU. You do like 2-4 weeks of ER and there are some ambulatory electives with a weekly continuity clinic. All the ward services are Q4 (except heme-onc = Q5) with night float coverage of admissions at 1 AM. For gen med, there is night float coverage of x-cover after MN. There are also short and long call systems in place along with day float and night float. We have a hospitalist service and NP services as well.
Fellowships: Many people stay at U Chicago for fellowship, but some other 2005-2006 matches included Duke, U Mich, and NW for Cards, Mt. Sinai for renal, and U Wash, Hopkins for Heme-Onc.


Coming soon…. I've also been to Stanford, UCSF, Wash U and UW if anyone has questions (or advice for that matter) on those programs.
 
Any thoughts about the Johns Hopkins Bayview program?
 
Isn't Hyde Park a pretty dangerous neighborhood? They had a rash of armed robberies at gunpoint in broad daylight last year (I decided against interviewing at UC after reading their police blotter), so much for charming.
 
Mayo Clinic is a warm, friendly oasis (due to underground tunnels, but which also prevent you from seeing sunlight) in a southern Minnesota city named Rochester, which generally freezes interviewees on impact upon stepping out of the airport.
+'s: reputation, financially stable, excellent PD, no private patients, the kindest, most approachable faculty in the midst of a very congenial atmosphere, education focused, EBM emphasis, fellowship placement in competitive specialties, great conferences, multitude of research opportunities and they reaaaally help facilitate and make it easy for you to do research, hook you up with case reports, etc., some exposure to rare cases (although much less than I expected prior to interviewing - the fellows and outpatient attendings get much more exposure to those patients. The residents see mostly bread/butter, terrific ancillary staff, insurance benefits/salary, efficient studies (comeback really fast), great place to do a fellowship and lots of inbreeding - they like their own residents so if you want to do a fellowship there, a residency there sets you up better
-'s: Rochester is cold, small, and lacking diversity. Low patient diversity (mostly rural white folks from MN, WI, Iowa), rare contact with med students, fellowship placement at only semi-competitive placements (but this could be due to fellow applicant preference), mostly bread/butter (low tertiary care), less experience with procedures, low outpatient exposure
 
So nobody has anyhing on UCSD or UCLA, really??? I mean these programs have to interviewed at least one person by now :)

and as a side note. Thank you everybody for taking the time to write these long reviews. I think they are extremely helpful
 
Brown

Positives: Strong international health focus with established rotations in several international sites such as Kenya, India, Cambodia and Dom Rep. As a result it was said that about 1/4 of residents go abroad. Really happy residents (possibly the happiest I have met, though I have had only 3 interviews). In fact, one of the residents had prepared a presentation for us and it was outstanding, she seemed to genuinely love the program. Providence seems like a really nice place to live, most residents end up learning how to sail during their residency. There is a real emphasis on teaching. Collegial atmosphere. My interviewer was nice- he could have slammed me for a few things in my app. and he chose not to; I really appreciated that. Over 90% of residents get their 1st or 2nd choice of fellowships. Apparently a diverse pt pop of Russian, Eastern European, Hmong, Cambodian, Portugeuse though few African Americans. The PDs seem to really care about their residents, sort of like a warm fuzzies, touch feely kind of place. The ER is the busiest in New England b/c of a large catchment area. I was told that this is because the state of RI had mandated that Lifespan (the private company with which Brown is affiliated) be the only private hospital group in RI. This makes for very stable financials and a busy service. Fellowship placement seemed good.

Negatives: There does not seem to be as much of a research focus as at some top programs. When asked about opportunities for research the PD sort of said that that would come informally through contact with the staff. He said something along the lines of research starting with a Case Report. So great for the newbie but maybe less so for someone used to publishing (whoever that may be!). The med school is very young about 30 years old so it is less established then some other places. The school of Public Health is brand new and a strong link to the residency program is not yet in place. There are no formal opportunities to develop research/epi/public health skills.

Overall I liked this program very much. It reminds me of Brown the University- cosy, caring and capable of putting you where you need to be for fellowship etc. I will be ranking it highly.
 
Pros:
1. Yale obviously has a strong academic reputation and strong department of medicine.
2. Research money and facilities abound. The new chair of medicine seems to have made research his number one priority (there was a whole hour of the day just devoted to the various research tracks/opportunities available.)
3. The program director, Dr. Kapadia, has been in place for a long time. Seems to be personable.
4. Fellowship wise, they match as well as you expect for an upper level program. However, 50% of residents go on to fellow at Yale (this may be a PRO or a CON, depending on your views.)
5. New cancer center being built, but will not be finished for 3 years.
6. International health electives with funding.

Cons:
1. As someone who doesn't want to be a bench scientist but rather a clinician, I was put off by the long presentation on research opportunities. Not because I don't think it's a plus for the program, but because I didn't think that the program did a good day of balancing the research with clinical/humanistic/doctoring aspects of the program. It made me feel like as someone wanting to do clinical medicine, that this was not where I belonged. (To be fair, one of the assistant directors stated at lunch that most of its residents do pursue clinical-educator paths.)
2. New Haven. Talking to residents, they don't seem to mind living in New Haven, as it does have a lower cost of living compared to many other east coast cities. However, during the day, I constantly was told, "Well, New York is only an 1.5 hours away." New Haven has improved a lot, but it is still New Haven.
3. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the cardiology department still doesn't have a chair -- if this is true, I'm not sure what to imply from this.


Overall: Good academic reputation, strong focus on research, but felt that the program was relying heavily on Ivy League name as its major selling point.
 
i know i mentioned this on another thread but any input on uarkansas, lsu shreveport, MUSC?
 
Brown...Over 90% of residents get their 1st or 2nd choice of fellowships...

I don't mean to pick on you mtoto, but I've heard this sort of comment many times and wanted to point out the absurdity of this statistic for everyone's benefit. Program directors throw these stats around thinking we won't realize how useless they are. But essentially, this statistic is completely meaningless because it gives us no information about WHAT their choices actually are! In fact, the ERAS match program is no longer releasing information about medical students percentages of getting their 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice in the residency match for this very reason. Rumor has it that advisors at medical schools were encouraging students to aim their sights lower so that they could elevate their bragging rights about the number of students who get their "top choice." And top-10 programs were potentially looking bad because they matched lots of people into their 3rd or 4th choice in VERY competitive fields like ophtho or rads.

Similarly, we shouldn't care about what percentage of residents gets their top choice unless we have some perspective about what these choices actually ARE. For example, if most residents are matching at less reputable programs it may be that they didn't even get interviews at top ones. This allows PD's to brag that "90% get their 1st or 2nd choice," but doesn't give us any idea about how fellowship programs actually view their residents.

So ends my rant for the day :)
 
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