Thoughts on Lawyer to Doctor

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Ekco

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Hey everyone, just wanted to give a bit of background then get some input from you other non-traditionals, although I may not be completely non-traditional. While in undergrad, I had every intent of going to medical school. I majored in Biology on the Pre-Med track with a Chemistry minor, took the MCAT (I think it was a 31...9P, 10B, 12V) and applied to three schools. ECU, UNC and Wake. Rejected at UNC and ECU, waitlisted and eventually accepted at Wake. But for some reason I decided to take the LSAT, did great and went to law school.

Now I've been out for a couple of years, working as a Patent Attorney and well...I hate it. lol I constantly think about medicine and but for meeting my wife while in law school, it was definitely not one of my better decisions. Now here I am at 26, thinking of taking the MCAT this summer and hoping to matriculate in 2008 at the young age of 28....and already with 6-digits of law school debt. Am I crazy??? Maybe...but all I know is over Christmas one of my wife's friends who just got in this past year was talking about her gross anatomy class and I was eating it up like candy as she talked about it all....I've been thinking about it for awhile, but I obviously have some financial concerns...the thought of no paycheck for 4 years while student loans mount is not comforting...yet I can't get the thought out of my brain.

I've basically told myself that if I am going to do it, I have to do it soon as it won't get easier as I get older, debt or no debt. At the very least take the MCAT again and have that ready to go if the wife agrees not to leave me. :cool:

So I am going to start studying...I figured if I can study for and pass the patent bar and the real bar I can do better on the MCAT than last time. I don't know if anyone has any thoughts on how much MCATs matter for non-trads, or semi-non-trad as I that may be more of what I am...but I plan to kill that test. As for other things that matter, does anyone have any info on lawyers who have become doctors? I just wonder how my whole package will look...have the background, even accepted but didn't go and went to law school instead and now want back in...does that scream dedication or that I don't know what to do with my life?

Anyway, it is good to be on board here and looking forward to chatting with everyone. I'll be checking out the MCAT forums soon...gotta work on my sciences. I think I can kill verbal now...but its been a looooong time since bio...and chem.

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Couple of other things I forgot to add re: background etc. GPA in college was 3.61, 3.76 in sciences I think...in law school we didn't have GPA per se, but was top 20%. As to extracurriculars, while in college I was an athlete so that was my main extra during that time...in law school...well I studied law, heh. That and going to the gym were pretty much it. Since then, I've been learning the ropes and doing what needs to be done for clients etc...most of my extra curriculars are legal related, ie being a member of various organizations etc. Does anyone have any thoughts on how admissions people will view that aspect, meaning, the fact I don't have experience shadowing doctors or volunteering in a hospital or something like that? If it will be a big negative I can work on it...though I'd have to almost quit my job to get meaningful time in hehe.
 
hi there,

i was in your boat a couple years ago, though i didn't have nearly as glorious stats as you. i graduated law school at 24, and then started thinking of switching shortly thereafter. i'm now 28 and even though nothing's for certain i definitely don't regret the decision. you'd have a MUCH easier time of getting in than i did, i think, given that you've practiced for a while. if this is where your heart lies, then go for it!! we'll all be here to support you.

FYI--the one question i've consistently gotten from interviewers is "how do we know you won't drop/become unsatisfied with medicine like you did law?" that is a question that you HAVE to come up with a good answer for. it will be a lot easier for you given that you've practiced for a while.
the one thing you can do to address this head on is get lots of clinical experience. that way they know you've explored the profession thoroughly, that you know what you're getting yourself into, and that you like the profession even with all its pitfalls.

another good piece of advice law2doc gave me when i was first starting this process is to clarify your reasons for going into medicine. they can't be because you just hated law. in fact, nowhere in your application should you mention that you dislike/are bored by patent law. instead the reason has to be very med-specific. if you feel like there are advantages, though, to having the dual degree in terms of what you want to accomplish in your career, then spin it that way. i myself opted to go purely the med route--e.g. my reasons for wanting to go to med school had nothing to do with law. i didn't want to do policy work or health advocacy--i simply wanted to practice medicine, and that's all. but i've seen other people spin it as a combined advantage as well.

i addressed some of this stuff in my amcas statement. some interviewers have told me it made a huge difference in terms of deciding whether to grant me an interview, because their initial objections were addressed.

in any event, best of luck to you. you seem really motivated and excited by the prospect of entering medicine, and that's a really great starting point.

p.s. call me a n00b, but can you just call wake and see if they'll reinstate admission? granted they'll probably say no, but it's worth a shot. i'm of the school of thought that says you might at least try--if you get shot down then you're back at status quo, but if on the odd chance they say yes, you're golden!!
 
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Thanks for the reply shpamme.

I've thought about policy work, and the joint degree would probably land me there at some point, but really the main reason I am wanting to go is the same as you, to practice medicine. As corny as it sounds, I want to help people. :p When I applied to medical school the first time around, I think I lost sight of that and was mainly thinking about the $$$, which from reading some posts on here sounds like its not what it used to be, but anything requires work and sacrifice to get ahead. But as I have gone through law school and now practiced for a year and a half, I've realized how good it feels to help people, its just the subject matter I am helping them on does not stimulate me. Honestly, I don't make a killer lawyer salary, it's quite modest. But even if I made tons I wouldn't be able to get up for it. Perhaps hate was a strong word, but the main reason I chose patent law was because it was so close to science. I believe going to law school has definitely made me a better person, enchanced my critical thinking skills and writing skills, but I do not have a passion for it. The sole reason I even chose biology in undergrad was to head to medical school.

At the very least, I think the break from that track and the 3 years of law school was also good because it has changed my perspective on what I would want to do with a medical degree. Then, I wanted to be a surgeon: prestige, top dollar, I didn't care about the hours etc. Now, I would mostly be going in with an open mind to find what I really wanted to do...but I do admit, I feel like it will be a primary care type position, likely pediatrics.

Anyway, back to getting IN to medical school, you mentioned clinical experience, do you have any suggestions for what sort of things I could be doing? I'd have to figure out how to work it in, depending on what you mean by lots, hehe. But when you say clinical experience, do you mean literally working/volunteering at hospitals w/ doctors etc, as I remember faintly from years back when I applied that it was more about community service/involvement than necessarily working with docs. For example, my wife and I volunteer with an animal rescue group. Just curious. I am going to have to relearn the whole process...

One thing I have been pondering is where to apply...though that will probably depend on my MCAT scores. First go around I only did the three...but this time I will probably do more...though that gets quite expensive.

And again, thanks for your post and advice.

Oh and I'll try Wake, though I wonder if they even keep that kind of record? And in any event I doubt it would fly, hehe.
 
A bit of an addendum to my question about "clinical experience." Seeing as I have this back of my mind feeling about pediatrics, I got to thinking and realized there's a Children's Hospital not even 10 minutes from me...checked the website and they have a volunteer program where you can interact with the kids in a variety of different ways, though most are not "clinical", at least not medical. It's more about just being with them etc...is that clinical? In a sense it would seem that yes it is, as a lot of being a doctor, at least the kind of doctor I would want to go to, is relating to people etc. Anyway, thoughts appreciated.
 
hey there,

>but when you say clinical experience, do you mean literally >working/volunteering at hospitals w/ doctors etc, as I remember faintly from >years back when I applied that it was more about community >service/involvement than necessarily working with docs

honestly, my answer would be that it's a good combination. i think for career switchers it's a double hurdle--they want to see that you really understand what you're getting into, AND that you have a commitment to service. the volunteering tells them that you have a commitment to service. the shadowing doctors and working in ER's might show them that you know what you're getting yourself into. there are a lot of opportunities these days it seems to combine the two--for instance, i volunteer at a free clinic where we can shadow the doctors even outside the clinic. this is just a guess, but i'd say for a career switcher 7-10 hours a week of clinical exposure in aggregate would help--if you do this starting now for the whole app year, i can't help but think you'd be in good shape given your gpa and your great stats. one note--while animal rescue is undoubtedly amazingly cool and worthwhile, i think med schools will want to see medical-related work, at least in addition to any animal rescue work.

this is just my instinct but you seem really motivated and i have no doubts you'd "kill" the mcat, given your track record. and if you got into wake forest once i'm guessing you're already a pretty competitive candidate. but if you want to hedge your bets, i'd apply to a broad range of schools. i could be wrong, but some of the schools i've heard from these forums that really value "different" life experiences are--
tulane
drexel
ucsd (if you're in-state)
chicago medical school (rosalind franklin)
msu chm
toledo
nymc
creighton
mcw
if you're from nc, i'd also try applying to duke and to evms.

i hope that helps. i really admire anyone who has the strength to go through this process, especially after doing other things in life. best of luck to you and take care.
 
ooh the children's hospital sounds so so so cool!! i'd go for it. but only if it affords you actual patient interaction. if so then it really sounds like a great opportunity.
 
hey there,

>but when you say clinical experience, do you mean literally >working/volunteering at hospitals w/ doctors etc, as I remember faintly from >years back when I applied that it was more about community >service/involvement than necessarily working with docs

honestly, my answer would be that it's a good combination. i think for career switchers it's a double hurdle--they want to see that you really understand what you're getting into, AND that you have a commitment to service. the volunteering tells them that you have a commitment to service. the shadowing doctors and working in ER's might show them that you know what you're getting yourself into. there are a lot of opportunities these days it seems to combine the two--for instance, i volunteer at a free clinic where we can shadow the doctors even outside the clinic. this is just a guess, but i'd say for a career switcher 7-10 hours a week of clinical exposure in aggregate would help--if you do this starting now for the whole app year, i can't help but think you'd be in good shape given your gpa and your great stats.

this is just my instinct but you seem really motivated and i have no doubts you'd "kill" the mcat, given your track record. and if you got into wake forest once i'm guessing you're already a pretty competitive candidate. but if you want to hedge your bets, i'd apply to a broad range of schools. i could be wrong, but some of the schools i've heard from these forums that really value "different" life experiences are--
tulane
drexel
ucsd (if you're in-state)
chicago medical school (rosalind franklin)
msu chm
toledo
nymc
creighton
mcw

i hope that helps. i really admire anyone who has the strength to go through this process, especially after doing other things in life. best of luck to you and take care.
 
Thanks again for the thoughts shpamme.

Yes the volunteer program at the children's hospital includes lots of patient contact. Basically that's all you do, spend time with the patients and their famalies. There are a variety of different ways to get involved so I will probably try several different ones to have the most exposure. And maybe I will luck out and one of the docs would let me shadow them now and then.

Thanks for the listing of schools. And yes I am from NC, hence the first go around being Wake, UNC and ECU. I plan to apply to all four NC schools this time, and as the children's hospital is at Duke, that could be very helpful. The only thing about Duke's program is that they devote a full year to research and I don't know if that is something I want to do... I'll have to see. Once I take the MCAT, I'll have a better idea of how I stack up so I will go through lists of schools and see where I am either a longshot, good chance or a shoe-in (or as close as you can get in the lottery of medical school acceptance) at least based on academic numbers. Alot will probably depend on where the school is located as well. It will be a big enough pill to swallow for my wife as is, without dragging her to Philly or Chicago or some other place she has no desire to live in. It will be an adventure, that's for sure.
 
It WILL be an adventure, and a interesting one at that. You seem not only really intelligent, but you're also incredibly humble (unlike some other MD-bound lawyers I've seen) AND you're giving some serious thought to this whole process (AND to your wife..that's SO considerate) even though your stats are excellent. If I was going to gamble, I'd totally bet on you--you're gonna do just fine. =) Whatever I can do to help, just let me know..

Take care!
 
It WILL be an adventure, and a interesting one at that. You seem not only really intelligent, but you're also incredibly humble (unlike some other MD-bound lawyers I've seen) AND you're giving some serious thought to this whole process (AND to your wife..that's SO considerate) even though your stats are excellent. If I was going to gamble, I'd totally bet on you--you're gonna do just fine. =) Whatever I can do to help, just let me know..

Take care!

Oh..NC...I miss Goodberry's. =(
 
Welcome to the club. On SDN, both Law2Doc and I are JD--> MDs. I also practiced IP law (although more on the trademark and copyright side).

For the clinical experience, I would recommend becoming an EMT if you can swing it with your work schedule- fantastic clinical exposure. Volunteering in the ED is another possibility as it is open 24/7. You can also use your vacation time to do a medical mission (even if you are just helping stock the pharmacy, it is an amazing experience).

As has been mentioned, you will need to address the change from law to medicine in your personal statement. So work long and hard on it. Some interviewers will ask you "if you are not happy in law, what makes you think you will be happy in medicine". Most places were very welcoming- I did run into a couple of interviewers that had an issue with the law background (seeing us as the enemy).

BTW- USF also looks kindly on students with varied experience.

Good luck!!
 
Hey Vtucci, awesome advice about the EMT. It could also help refresh your memory re: the physio on the MCAT--a good way to kill two birds with one stone.

Vtucci--USF has a med school?!?! Or did you mean UCSF? I didn't know that.. I tried looking it up in MSAR and didn't see that. Can you clarify? I would have loved to apply.. =(

edit: oh, I just realized you were probably talking about Florida. Hehe.. guess that adds fuel to the stereotype that Californians are self-absorbed.
 
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Hey Vtucci, thanks for the post. I was excited to look up EMT course information today after I read your post this morning. I think being an EMT would be an amazing experience...however, I do not know of the feasibility due to the fact that I would need to take the course and become certified, and the only ones offered around here are already in full swing. (wish I had posted here a few weeks ago, heh). And even if I were still able to enroll, the scheduling of the course makes it tough, as there are no all-day Saturday type classes that I can find. They are all during the week, with potential Saturday labs. Even though the courses are in the evenings, they are two evenings a week and that is more than my job would be able to bear most likely...I could potentially work out that amount of time on a flexible basis, but the inflexibility would be killer, as you can probably remember vtucci...the client needs what they need when they need it. (or want it)

The flexibility of the children's hospital would be great, plus, my wife would most likely be interested in doing with me, which would be an added bonus. But this brings me to a question of whether planning to apply this year is too soon...i.e., will the volunteer work there be enough or is it going to require some serious restructuring of my time to get some EMT type experience and thus likely apply the following year...unless of course it would be acceptable to put on my application that I am enrolled in an EMT course (e.g., I could work out taking the course this summer).

As for the ED experience, would that be advantageous to volunteering at the CH @ Duke? It seems to me that if they want clinical experience, and assuming one can define clinical experience as essentially being patient interaction and witnessing the doctor-patient relationship, either would be sufficient. I understand that they are probably completely different experiences, but they would both contain that same basic doctor/patient experience.

Also, just a general question for anyone to answer if able, assuming I plan to apply this year, it sounds like most people recommend applying ASAP after the June 1 opening date. Which brings me to my question. Would it be better to take the MCAT on April 16, so as to get my score mid-May and have it for applying at the get-go or prepare for an extra four weeks and take on it May 11 and then receive my scores by June 10 and apply immediately. Obviously, I am really the only one who can answer which is better as only I know how prepared I am once time is closing in on April 16, but in general, is there any real disadvantage to applying two weeks into June instead of the very first day? Just like to have an idea of whether I am looking at a hard goal of April 16 or a preferable one with a month later not being a significant loss...Taking the Kaplan diagnostic today so we'll see how far I have to come...

Shpamme: As usual I appreciate your comments...And I will have to tell my wife that you think I am being so considerate for weighing her thoughts in on WHERE to attend medical school as she is likely thinking I am inconsiderate for hoping to attend at all ;) She gave me the go ahead but...well people are generally more accepting of an idea when it is not a reality. Once it becomes a reality, or at least a more likely contingency, all the misgivings rise to the surface.
 
Just posting a quick bump in hopes that someone will answer my questions :)
 
Switching from law to med is perfectly possible, and not really necessary to "go low" in terms of places you apply for. Very good friend of mine went from top law school to a couple of years of clerkship to top med school to dermatology. So it's certainly doable.

However, be aware, that in my (non-personal) experience it's fairly difficult to combine law and medicine, if that's what you want. In clinical medicine you really don't get to use your law experience (unless you're sued, of course), and if you do get to do some kind of administrative thing, you're likely to have very little clinical exposure, and it seems that's not what you want.
So your current debt from law school is likely to be a sunk cost. And don't underestimate your total debt after residency. Aforementioned friend is still struggling with student loans, so remember to think long and hard about that part of the equation.

In terms of the application itself, I agree with poster above that you need a REALLY REALLY good and convincing argument for switching careers. And dissatisfaction with your current occupation isn't on that list. Also, you WILL need a fairly large dose of volunteering/shadowing etc., and of course a very competitive MCAT.

Also, will you be willing to go DO, if that'll get you to where you want? I don't want to go into the whole DO vs. MD argument, but it might help you to frame the strength and reasoning behind your plans. You owe it to yourself to make your choice for the right reasons. How bad do you want it, and which sacrifices will you be willing to make? Remember, that you're looking at anywhere from 7 to 11 years from today, before you can call yourself a physician. (and you can probably add at least a year to that, as it seems that you don't have any real volunteering experience as of today, which makes it unlikely that you'll be able to be a competitive applicant in the current cycle).
 
Hi,

I guess I'm in a similar boat: I was pre-med in college, spent time working as a tech in surgery with the intention of applying to med school, then totally shifted gears and went to business school to study finance. I traded bonds for a few years and found I just didn't have a passion for it. I missed medicine and knew it suited my nature more than business did. I've applied to just one school for 2007 (my husband's not really in a position to leave his job) and interviewed last week.

If I were you, I'd go ahead and apply this year. By the time secondaries roll around you should have some interesting experiences to write about. If it doesn't work out and you have to apply again, schools will know that you're determined, if anything.

I'm currently a volunteer at my local Children's Hospital and I absolutely love it. I float around the inpatient units and basically hang out with kids who are pretty sick and just want to play or be held. Years ago I volunteered at an ED and thought it was pretty boring. I replaced linens and comforted grannies. Unless you have access to a trauma center (which could be fun) you'd probably gain more fulfilling experience at the children's hospital.

About your application time - you can submit to AMCAS without MCAT scores yet. And I don't know what other people's experiences with AMCAS have been, but they didn't even send my application out to the med school until early July though I submitted and was verified early. So if you think a little more study time would help, I'd go for it. Kaplan was genius for me, btw, their online content helps a lot.

Best of luck to you.
 
If I were you, I'd go ahead and apply this year. By the time secondaries roll around you should have some interesting experiences to write about. If it doesn't work out and you have to apply again, schools will know that you're determined, if anything.

This is actually not the best advice. You really want to get all your ducks lined in a row and then pull the trigger. Go for one shot, one kill. Reapplicants are not usually rewarded in this process (for determination), in general they have a harder and more expensive road, and have to show substantial improvement in their application from the prior cycle.
 
This is actually not the best advice. You really want to get all your ducks lined in a row and then pull the trigger. Go for one shot, one kill. Reapplicants are not usually rewarded in this process (for determination), in general they have a harder and more expensive road, and have to show substantial improvement in their application from the prior cycle.

Need to sticky this advice. Med school will expect IMPROVEMENTS for reapplicants. It's not a matter of just filling out more application the second time around.
 
Wow, well the bump sure did the trick on getting some more thoughts from everyone. :) First off, I'd like to thank everyone who provided comments and suggestions. Even though a few of them come off at first blush as a bit negative, I understand that you are just trying to be realistic in letting me know obstacles I will need to overcome and I appreciate that.

However, one thing that seems to strike me as odd is the emphasis put on having an extremely good reason for going from law to medicine, almost as if a law degree is a hindrance and not an asset. For me, this just does not compute. You learn skills in law school that you will not learn anywhere else, and while not all are applicable to medicine, many are. Now don't misunderstand, I completely get the whole dedication to medicine and "if you quit law why won't you quit medicine too" type question, but I still see the degree as an advantage and not a disadvantage.

Perhaps my perception of the degree and the move from law to medicine is this way because to me, the real question is not why medicine but why law. For that to make sense, please indulge me to elaborate on my background a bit more and how it came about that I went to law school anyway. I understand that most of you may not read all this but if you do, I appreciate any further comments and advice you have. If you want to skip the entertaining story of my background, but still want to answer the pertinent questions, please skip to the bottom for my questions. Again, sorry so long, but you know the old saying, if I had more time it would be shorter.

When I look back and think about why I went to law school, the reasons I come up with are utterly pathetic as they all boil down to three weaknesses that I most definitely had at that time but which I have endeavored to correct: ignorance, immaturity and impatience. Ever since I was in middle school I wanted to go to medical school and become a doctor. I grew up in a small rural town, in fact, one of those towns were if you received the NHSC scholarship you would be sent there! I know because the father of one of my childhood friends was a doctor and was there for that very reason. My mother is a teacher and my father a mechanic. I went to a high school where most people graduated and then became a laborer of some sort. Yes, some went on to college, but many became mechanics, farmers, work for various utility companies etc. Thus, the people I relied on at school and at home for support and advice on attaining my goal of going to medical school didn't understand that it took more than good grades. I aced the SAT and made all A's and thought that I was well on my way.

So I went to college and tried to follow a similar pattern. I quickly learned I would at least have to study a bit to get A's. So a couple semesters of not doing so hot and then it was all A's again. I went to a smaller private school, and even though we had a pre-med emphasis program and advisors, I was never really told of the importance of having clinical experience. There was a student in my class who worked as an EMT throughout school, but it never clicked with me that this might be something I should be doing. I thought good grades and a competitive MCAT would be all that I needed to get in. So time passes and I take the MCAT, do OK, a 31, which was at least competitive at the schools where I was applying. Applied to UNC, Wake and ECU. Interviewed at all three, rejected at UNC and ECU and eventually wait-listed and accepted at Wake. But that is getting ahead of the story. UNC said you don't have enough experience. For ECU, well, that was a blunder on my part for not knowing about the school before going in to my interview. For example, in my main interview I was told that my grades and MCAT were above their average and he didn't see any reason why I would not get in. (I did have some very slight volunteer exp, but it was nothing to write home about, but I did have something) He then asked me what kind of doctor I wanted to be. I told him a surgeon, specifically cardiothoracic. Well, that was the nail in the coffin as he immediately said, oh well we only really accept primary care candidates so you probably not going to get in. Well, I didn’t. At Wake I was waitlisted, and thus I was left unsure at graduation of whether I would be in school in August or be looking for a job.

In comes immaturity and impatience. Mistake #1: I decided, well, I could probably do something else and be just as happy. I’ll make a lot of money being a lawyer, I can do patent law and it will be related to science. I’ll be fine. So I took the LSAT, killed it and then thought about where to attend. I was being contacted by some top 20 and a couple top 10 schools due to the LSAT, however, they all thought I was applying for the following year. Mistake #2: Impatience got the better of me. I thought, I don’t want to wait a year, what I am going to do? So I went to my alma mater and they let me in to the class even though it started in just a few weeks (took the June LSAT). Meanwhile, I know in the back of my mind that this is not what I should be doing, but the three I’s had control and I didn’t want life to be left up in the air waiting for Wake so I enrolled in law school. Incidentally, the only person who questioned this was my sister as she is currently in law school and it is her dream, and thus I suppose she could tell that this was not where my passion should be leading me. I should have listened to her, but everyone else thought it was great. My mom was thrilled as she never wanted me to be a doctor anyway (blood and all that, she’s very….well, squeamish but more than that)

Well, during orientation, wham Wake says you’re in…Mistake #3: I decided well I’ve already enrolled here, made my deposit, living with my college buddies, why not stay. So I stayed…and knew everyday it was the WRONG decision. I thought about quitting every semester and applying to medical school, but in the end that would have looked worse than anything else most likely.

So I graduate, take and pass the bar and start working. And, no, I’ll never, ever give hating my job as a reason for going to medical school. I just said that in my first post and it’s not really even accurate. There are days my jobs is great. As I am not in litigation, I do have more flexibility than other attorneys. I from time to time see great ideas. Even today I had a new client who I am really excited about. But in the end, I know I will never be a great lawyer. To be great at something, you must have a passion for it. You must be able to take the good with the bad but have something deep inside driving you to keep going, because even though you have terrible days and red tape seems to be all around you, you still love it and have a pssion for what you are doing. I don’t have a passion for law; I never have and never will. Parts are interesting, but even for most of law school I was bored. The only class I perked up for was Law and Medicine. I aced the class and received the “Law and Medicine Scholar Award” which is a fancy way of saying I booked the course. Whoopee.

Although going to law school was a mistake, and I always have the pang of regret for not going to Wake as soon as I heard I was in, if I could do it all over, I’d probably do it again anyway. Why you ask? Because there were lessons I needed to learn, and unfortunately for me, I have always been the type of person who has to learn the hard way. Well three years gone and lots of $$ in student loans, I’ve learned my lessons. I don’t want to make the same mistake twice. And although I have to live with making it, that doesn’t mean I have to live as an attorney for the rest of my life and that for to me, my dream of being a doctor is a matter of WHEN, not if.

I’ve been aching to head back towards that dream, but the impatience in me still fights to take me over. I even applied to and was accepted to a JHU MS in Biotechnology program but in the end realized I was only doing it because I could start NOW, not because it was what I wanted.

There’s a quote I once heard, and though I cannot remember it word for word, the gist is that in the end people always do what they intended to do the whole time, no matter what they said or did in between. Well, I always intended to go to medical school and become a doctor and somehow I will.

So, all of that mess out of the way, what I really need help on is deciding is it worth it to try and apply this year or not. The way I see it, the three main things everyone is pointing out are (1) Good MCAT (2) Good PS and (3) Clinical experience. Well let’s assume I study my butt off and that (1) is not a problem and that with a bit of effort and some tips from people here on SDN, (2) is a really good PS. So that leaves (3). If I begin volunteering within the next week or so, that would mean that roughly around the time schools receive my application I would have been doing it for about 5 months. By the time I would hopefully have interviews, this could be anywhere 7 on up to 11 or 12 months depending on when the interview took place. In addition to this, my wife has a very good friend of hers up in Northern VA who is a pediatrician and I am 100% sure she would let me shadow whenever I wanted. Her husband is also a doctor, a surgeon, and he’d likely let me hang around a bit as well. So, ultimate question, with good MCAT, the grades I have, a strong PS and somewhere in the 5-11 month range of volunteering and interspersed shadowing, will I be a strong candidate? Or is it better to wait a year or more. If I the consensus is I should wait, I will. I’ve already waited this long, I can wait longer. Impatience won’t get me this time ;)
 
This is actually not the best advice. You really want to get all your ducks lined in a row and then pull the trigger. Go for one shot, one kill. Reapplicants are not usually rewarded in this process (for determination), in general they have a harder and more expensive road, and have to show substantial improvement in their application from the prior cycle.

:thumbup: Once again, Law2Doc appears wise.

This seems to be one of those things that people prefer to learn the hard way. :(
 
However, one thing that seems to strike me as odd is the emphasis put on having an extremely good reason for going from law to medicine, almost as if a law degree is a hindrance and not an asset. For me, this just does not compute. You learn skills in law school that you will not learn anywhere else, and while not all are applicable to medicine, many are. Now don't misunderstand, I completely get the whole dedication to medicine and "if you quit law why won't you quit medicine too" type question, but I still see the degree as an advantage and not a disadvantage.

Your post is so long I'm only going to address this one paragraph. While people get paid by the word in law, brevity is the name of the game in medicine.:D
Coming from law to medicine is doable, obviously, but you have to have a really good reason. Concerns are (1) career changers are expected to have a better thought out reason since they are uprooting their whole life; moreso if you have a good career such as law already. Traditional applicants have no life to uproot so they can fudge on this more, (2) when factoring in the time value of money you are unlikely, financially, to ever get back to where you would be if you just stayed in law (multiple interviewers actually gave me this word of financial advice in interviews), (3) there is a concern that lawyers who apply to med school just learn medicine to sue doctors, so you have to allay this fear, (4) there is a concern that someone unhappy in one profession will find the same issues in medicine.

So there will be increased scrutiny, and you really have to sell it. You likely have transferable skills, know your way around increasing levels of regulation, have experience working long hours. Both fields are service industries with a lot in common. But as was said above, you absolutely, positively cannot be going into medicine because you hate the law. You have to love the law, but have a different reason why medicine is more of a draw at this juncture. It has to be a story that rings true to adcoms, not a "I dislike the law but still want to be a professional" tale. Hope that clarifies.
 
While people get paid by the word in law, brevity is the name of the game in medicine.

I'm so confused..then what was with that "clear and concise" mantra that got fed to us during 1L LW&R?

Sigh.. that explains a LOT about my law school experience.. j/k =)

Ecko, I'll write more tomorrow...right now I'm too bummed out over my waitlists to write.
 
Sorry to hear that shpamme..:( But hey, that's how I got in the first time around so it's not the end of the world. How many schools have you yet to hear from?
 
Heya Ecko,
Thanks for the encouragement and sorry it took me forever to write. I have a few schools to hear from still.. and one more interview to go on. We'll see what happens..
Do you mind me asking what steps you took to get off your waitlist?

As for applying this year or next... I always think Law2Doc gives good advice even if it's hard to swallow at times, but I disagree with him on this one thing. If I were in your shoes, I'd take the MCAT by April and then make a decision. If your score is good, I'd go ahead and apply--PROVIDED though that you can a) afford to apply and b) handle the rejections that are an unavoidable part of this process. The way I see it, best case scenario you get in this cycle--worst case, you get rejected and are back at status quo.

A few schools may penalize you for being a reapplicant, but I think (from my own reapplication experience) that the vast majority are pretty understanding, especially when they see a marked change in circumstances between the last application and the current application. In your case, your change in circumstances will be a) hopefully a strong current MCAT, which shows them that your science aptitude is still high and b) practical work experience as a lawyer. A significant number of my classmates from my special masters program were third time and fourth-time reapplicants, and their experience was with each subsequent application and showing of improvement, they got more and more interviews.

If you do decide to apply, I'd make sure you have your AMCAS/transcripts in by early June--that way AMCAS will automatically process you when scores come out in late June. I'd also make sure you get the clinical experience like yesterday. The reason is that med schools are REALLY going to question your motivations for doing a second professional degree. Having the clinical experience will really help defuse any concerns they may have. Since you'll be working on a limited timeframe between now and July, try to make it as extensive and as diverse as possible--even doing both shadowing and the Children's Hospital if possible. Another thing that's really made a difference for me this cycle is exercising all the connections I have--and even making some by cold calling faculty whose work I'm interested in. IMHO I think being proactive is the real key to getting in as a nontrad.

That said, if you do get rejected definitely apply again next year. It's never too late to go for this. Hope that helps. =)

A last piece of insight--when I read your story above, I'm still not getting the sense that you want to go into medicine because you like it. I get the sense you want to go into medicine because you're not satisfied with law. I'm SURE that's not actually the case, and that you have a passion for medicine apart from your dissatisfaction with law. But it really needs to come out in your statement. Make sure you write and rewrite and redraft until your passion for medicine shines through. Clinical experiences will give you something to write about. I'd be happy to take a look via PM once you have it written, to see if it's still hitting the wall from the motivation standpoint. I don't mean to rain on your parade...just want to make sure you present yourself in the best possible light.

Take care!
 
The way I see it, best case scenario you get in this cycle--worst case, you get rejected and are back at status quo.

My point was that as a reapplicant you are not back to status quo. You will have created a steeper hill to get over. Time is your friend. Spend it to get everything lined up first before moving forward. The fact that you reference "third and fourth-time reapplicants" should suggest that it perhaps makes sense to fix things for a year or two rather than throw yourself against the same wall over and over again. In the end it is often quicker to burn an application cycle getting your house in order.
 
Thanks again for the replies shpamme and law2doc. I really appreciate the advice. Since the last time I posted I've done some more reading and thinking and I now have a better appreciation for what you are both saying regarding being able to articulate a damn good reason for going from law to medicine. So that is something I am going over and over in my mind right now....as to the other aspects, still going on with my MCAT studies and I also wanted to ask advice on shadowing, as after again thinking about it, despite some of the negative things I have seen on this board about shadowing (i.e., that it is "lame"), I think it would be a great way to see the profession. Obviously, I'll never know what its like to be a doc without being one, but I think it would be a great thing to jump on right now, both for myself and for the application process. My question is, what would be the best approach for finding a doc to shadow? As I live between Duke and UNC, I have two teaching hospitals full within arms reach....any thoughts on the best away to approach potential docs to shadow?
 
Hey Ecko,

I basically have no shame, and cold call physicians who have a good reputation in specialties I'm interested in. The worst they can say is no. As long as you ask politely, even if they can't accomodate you they more than likely won't be irritated by your call either. I also let them know that I'm interested in coming back to this community to practice after medical school, so part of my interest in shadowing them is to get exposure to the local patient population. When calling, try to ask the secretaries what day the doctor has downtime to talk, stress that you don't mean to be a bother, and try to call back on that day. It seemed for me at least that doctors were more receptive on days when they had office off, or no surgeries scheduled. If a doctor is running back and forth between patient rooms, he'll be less likely to give the thought serious consideration. I'm probably preaching to the choir though--you yourself have a busy schedule as a lawyer and probably know this firsthand.

If you feel strange cold calling, in my experience emailing also worked well--especially with academic doctors. I structured my emails to address four things--1. Why that doctor specifically? 2. Why that specialty 3. Why in that particular geographical area? 4. Why shadow at all (because I'm interested in a career in medicine and I want to make sure I've explored it fully before embarking on the path.)

I also called the local medical school's outreach and alumni offices and got names of doctors who might be willing to have students shadow them.

I got myself on the mailing list of my alma mater's premed association since they periodically sent out notices of doctors who were willing to have students shadow. I also asked the leadership of these undergrad science organizations who they knew.

And, I contacted my own personal family physicians, and asked them during my doctors' appointments if they'd be willing to have me shadow them.

I also talked to some osteopathic physicians as well--they were more than happy to spread the DO gospel, and since they perform many of the same procedures as allopathic physicians, I got a lot of exposure.

Between those avenues, I was able to shadow doctors in a wide variety of practice settings--academic doctors, community doctors with private practices, doctors at free clinics, and and at doctors county hospitals. In each of these cases I had to get clearance from the hospital to watch procedures, and the doctors had to obtain consent from each patient I was shadowing.

Finally, I hit up some of my college friends, who were currently completing residencies. They were of course excited to show off. =) But with them it was a little trickier for some reason to get clearance to shadow. I don't know why; perhaps because they are only residents?

I have relatives in the triangle area. I'll see if my uncle knows any physicians who have a reputation for having students shadow. If I don't post anything, it means I couldn't find anything out. But hopefully they'll know someone.

Hope that gives you some ideas. Keep your chin up--it'll happen, fo shiz. =)
 
Thanks again shpamme :) One thing I believe I will need to make known from the get go is that I am not the typical student shadowing but am an attorney, which may put off some docs....But the thought about checking with the local med school's outreach/alumni offices is a great idea. As far as e-mailing the docs, I couldn't find e-mails of docs on the Duke site, will need to check the UNC one as well. If not, oh well, have to call as you said. Thanks for the tips!
 
Three cheers to us law to med people! You can find the email address of the Duke doctors by going to http://directory.duke.edu/ and searching their names.




Thanks again shpamme :) One thing I believe I will need to make known from the get go is that I am not the typical student shadowing but am an attorney, which may put off some docs....But the thought about checking with the local med school's outreach/alumni offices is a great idea. As far as e-mailing the docs, I couldn't find e-mails of docs on the Duke site, will need to check the UNC one as well. If not, oh well, have to call as you said. Thanks for the tips!
 
Hi,
Looking at your post made me feel a lot better; I am second year law student at Florida and also am focused in IP. I went to Hopkins (and loved it). After a lot of public health work, I decided I wanted to go in that direction with my career and so I applied to law school. I did not even think I wanted (or could) go to med school, but I am starting to realize that really is what I want. Like you, I am fascinated by friends med school classes. I graduate in 2008 and was wondering if you had found anything.
Good luck!
 
Hey everyone, just wanted to give a bit of background then get some input from you other non-traditionals, although I may not be completely non-traditional. While in undergrad, I had every intent of going to medical school. I majored in Biology on the Pre-Med track with a Chemistry minor, took the MCAT (I think it was a 31...9P, 10B, 12V) and applied to three schools. ECU, UNC and Wake. Rejected at UNC and ECU, waitlisted and eventually accepted at Wake. But for some reason I decided to take the LSAT, did great and went to law school.

Now I've been out for a couple of years, working as a Patent Attorney and well...I hate it.

Can you tell me some more about why you hate patent law so much? What is your day-to-day job like? What law school did you go to? Do you think things would have been better if you went to a different school? Do you not think that patent law has a good future as a career?

I ask because I have been admitted to law school (top10) and to a post-bacc program and do not know which one to pick or if I should just keep my tech job and decline both. Can you explain more about your story?
 
Hey, I know I kinda joined this post late. But I was a non-trad coming over from computer science.

I don't think you will have much difficulty convincing physicians you want to be a doctor as long as you spout off some altruistic motive like "I want to heal the sick ... the law profession wasn't satisfying my burning desire to relieve suffering".

People on SDN get really wrapped up in explaining why they were leaving their old job when in fact in my admission process it was about a 1 minute conversation.

Just look at it from the perspective of the adcom, a lawyer shows up with an app, the first obvious question is, why do you want to leave law?

I think the biggest challenge you will face is staying with medicine, med school REALLY sucks, it is so damn tough, you have no life. I think you should ask yourself if you really want to work hard. If you already have a good degree it may be difficult to stay motivated. Sometimes all that keeps me here is the $50k in loans I've taken.

But I think other posters have it right, your loquacious diction will be a hinderance and you should solve it ASAP. Doctors are VERY VERY busy, you have maybe 15 seconds to explain something complicated. This includes your interview. Brief, direct, to the point.

"It seems that perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
I don't think you will have much difficulty convincing physicians you want to be a doctor as long as you spout off some altruistic motive like "I want to heal the sick ... the law profession wasn't satisfying my burning desire to relieve suffering".

This is actually the absolute wrong thing to say IMHO. Wanting to "help people", or otherwise be altruistic, while often bandied about by the pre-allo crowd, is simply too shallow a motive for a nontrad applicant. Plus you can help people in law too -- there are plenty of legal aid/poverty law options out there. You only go into medicine if the actual practice of medicine is what you want to do. Go with why you are interested, find it fascinating, always thought about it. Stay away from the fluff like "relieving suffering".
 
This is actually the absolute wrong thing to say IMHO. Wanting to "help people", or otherwise be altruistic, while often bandied about by the pre-allo crowd, is simply too shallow a motive for a nontrad applicant. Plus you can help people in law too -- there are plenty of legal aid/poverty law options out there. You only go into medicine if the actual practice of medicine is what you want to do. Go with why you are interested, find it fascinating, always thought about it. Stay away from the fluff like "relieving suffering".

You're talking yourself in circles.

'Go with why you are interested, find it fascinating, always thought about it.'

How is 'to help people' not a valid reason for why you are interested?

'You only go into medicine if the actual practice of medicine is what you want to do.' - Again, that just leads back to the original question of why. A robot can perform surgery. I think you need to involve the human element somewhat, otherwise you're just saying you want to be the equivalent of an auto mechanic who works on people.

In my opinion, the whole question is dumb. People only choose careers for 3 reasons: satisfaction in working the job, ability to do the job, and reward (financial and intangible) of the job. A normal person is usually equally divided in all three categories. I would guess medical schools are interested in normal people. So, your answer should demonstrate, relative in that order: desire, compotency, and work ethic. 'To help people' satisifies the desire portion somewhat, but you may want to expand on that a bit.
 
You're talking yourself in circles.

'Go with why you are interested, find it fascinating, always thought about it.'

How is 'to help people' not a valid reason for why you are interested?

'You only go into medicine if the actual practice of medicine is what you want to do.' - Again, that just leads back to the original question of why. A robot can perform surgery. I think you need to involve the human element somewhat, otherwise you're just saying you want to be the equivalent of an auto mechanic who works on people.

In my opinion, the whole question is dumb. People only choose careers for 3 reasons: satisfaction in working the job, ability to do the job, and reward (financial and intangible) of the job. A normal person is usually equally divided in all three categories. I would guess medical schools are interested in normal people. So, your answer should demonstrate, relative in that order: desire, compotency, and work ethic. 'To help people' satisifies the desire portion somewhat, but you may want to expand on that a bit.

The reason that wanting "to help people" is not enough is because it is disingenuous and people see right through it. It may be true that you want to help people, but if that were your only reason for going to med school, you could take the quarter-million dollars and eight years and make a better investment. You could start your own charitible organization or sponsor doctors in third-world countries or buy enough oral rehydration solution to save hundreds of lives. Do you have any idea how many people in third-world countries die from diarrhea each year?

So if you just want to help people, that's great. I hope that everyone who goes to med school wants to help people. But if that's your only reason, then you really haven't given the matter enough thought, and that will hurt your application.
 
The reason that wanting "to help people" is not enough is because it is disingenuous and people see right through it. It may be true that you want to help people, but if that were your only reason for going to med school, you could take the quarter-million dollars and eight years and make a better investment. You could start your own charitible organization or sponsor doctors in third-world countries or buy enough oral rehydration solution to save hundreds of lives. Do you have any idea how many people in third-world countries die from diarrhea each year?

So if you just want to help people, that's great. I hope that everyone who goes to med school wants to help people. But if that's your only reason, then you really haven't given the matter enough thought, and that will hurt your application.

I agree that helping people isn't a good enough reason. Still, what you say is not quite accurate. First, most people cannot access 250k in loans except through educational programs. They can't invest it in something else, and without becoming a doctor, they would have trouble paying it off. Also, starting effective nonprofits is very difficult. I think for a good number of people, going to med school offers the most potential to help people, assuming they pick a career trajectory with that in mind.

However, helping people is not good enough for a couple reasons. First, there are a lot of other things you could do to help people. Second, it is hard to stay motivated off the idea that you're helping people. Your best best for being a satisfied doc is to enjoy the day to day work, to like whatever you're doing. You don't have to like every moment, but you should find it to be a pretty decent way to spend a day. Whether that has to focus on the human element or not, I don't know. Why can't someone want to be a surgeon because they think they'll enjoy doing surgery? A happy auto mechanic is one who likes fixing cars. A happy surgeon is someone who enjoys operating, and there are surgeons who love it.
 
You're talking yourself in circles.

'Go with why you are interested, find it fascinating, always thought about it.'

How is 'to help people' not a valid reason for why you are interested?

'You only go into medicine if the actual practice of medicine is what you want to do.' - Again, that just leads back to the original question of why. A robot can perform surgery. I think you need to involve the human element somewhat, otherwise you're just saying you want to be the equivalent of an auto mechanic who works on people.

In my opinion, the whole question is dumb. People only choose careers for 3 reasons: satisfaction in working the job, ability to do the job, and reward (financial and intangible) of the job. A normal person is usually equally divided in all three categories. I would guess medical schools are interested in normal people. So, your answer should demonstrate, relative in that order: desire, compotency, and work ethic. 'To help people' satisifies the desire portion somewhat, but you may want to expand on that a bit.


Not circles at all -- you just seem not to understand it. I'll try to make it more linear for you. Helping people is not a good enough of a goal. You can help people in law. You can help people in other jobs besides medicine. So too relieving suffering (there are lawyers working for human rights, amnesty international etc). Too shallow -- stay away from these responses. It is fine for the 20 year old college grad who hasn't been out in the world to still have that "I'm going to make the world a better place" idealistic notion, but someone further out of school is expected to have outgrown this, and to have more mature reasons for uprooting their life and making a career change. People who have a choice primarilly choose careers that interest them. Either they are doing something cool, or they are enjoying the aspect of working with people, or with their hands, or simply find the work intellectually stimulating. Perhaps that fits within your "satisfaction" category or perhaps that is within the "intangible" reward category, but in my opinion, that is really the answer you need to lean towards.

FWIW "being able to do the job" is never a good reason to go into a job, as most nontrads can probably tell you. Most of us on this board were quite capable at our prior job, but it ultimately is not the job we are choosing to remain at. And quite a few of us are leaving careers with comparable tangible rewards, so that obviously isn't much of a reason for the change.
 
However, helping people is not good enough for a couple reasons. First, there are a lot of other things you could do to help people. Second, it is hard to stay motivated off the idea that you're helping people. Your best best for being a satisfied doc is to enjoy the day to day work, to like whatever you're doing. You don't have to like every moment, but you should find it to be a pretty decent way to spend a day. Whether that has to focus on the human element or not, I don't know. Why can't someone want to be a surgeon because they think they'll enjoy doing surgery? A happy auto mechanic is one who likes fixing cars. A happy surgeon is someone who enjoys operating, and there are surgeons who love it.

Exactly.
 
I think everyone has to write and be genuine about their reasons for attending medical school. I guess my point is that often lawyers are a little "ethically challenged" as a generalization and don't do anything stupid in your application.

I'm not saying this is a fair representation of lawyers, but it is the reality, medical school admission is not about fairness, its about getting admitted.

My recommendation is to make sure your explanation is not selfish in any way, money, respect, power, and hinger more on your desire to help people.

Doctors as a whole are incredibly skeptical about lawyers because the law profession has been extremely detrimental to patients and healthcare as a whole. Most doctors hate lawyers so it would be wise to have a good altruistic message to get across.

I actually wouldnt be suprised if you get rejected form some places just because you are a lawyer depending on who you get in an interview.

Doctors heal sick people, aka relieve suffering. That is the entire job. Every doctor helps someone, only a fraction of lawyers do.

Be smart about explaining why you are there and present your reasons more like a future doctors do more then lawyers do.

That is my advice. Good luck in the process.
 
I think everyone has to write and be genuine about their reasons for attending medical school. I guess my point is that often lawyers are a little "ethically challenged" as a generalization and don't do anything stupid in your application.

I'm not saying this is a fair representation of lawyers, but it is the reality, medical school admission is not about fairness, its about getting admitted.

My recommendation is to make sure your explanation is not selfish in any way, money, respect, power, and hinger more on your desire to help people.

Doctors as a whole are incredibly skeptical about lawyers because the law profession has been extremely detrimental to patients and healthcare as a whole. Most doctors hate lawyers so it would be wise to have a good altruistic message to get across.

I actually wouldnt be suprised if you get rejected form some places just because you are a lawyer depending on who you get in an interview.

Doctors heal sick people, aka relieve suffering. That is the entire job. Every doctor helps someone, only a fraction of lawyers do.

Be smart about explaining why you are there and present your reasons more like a future doctors do more then lawyers do.

That is my advice. Good luck in the process.


I'm not sure why you are posting on a thread about lawyers since you already said your background is computer science. Your view is pretty off with respect to this topic. In fact lawyers as a whole tend not to be ethically challenged because it is the profession with the most significant education in ethics and a profession in which many states require lawyers to have passed a professional responsibility exam. Not to mention that professional responsibillity is taken pretty seriously by state bars and so lawyers as a group are pretty attuned to ethical issues. There are a few bad apples out there, but it is a tiny fraction of lawyers who are ethically bankrupt.

And almost all lawyers do, to some degree help people -- it is a service industry, and your job is to assist people with problems. Some of the people you help are more worthy than others, but your job is largely to listen and render good advice to help your client accomplish his goals. Not that far afield from medicine.

While there are some doctors who are not the biggest fans of lawyers, that is not really the rule. Most physicians will have utilized lawyers for a variety of services unrelated to medmal, and every physician will likely be defended by a lawyer at some point. You have to make clear that you are not going to med school to learn how to sue doctors, but after that you tend not to face too many hurdles in this process. You want to emphasize your prior career and the transferable skills, not fear it. It will help you get into med school if you play it right, not keep you out.
 
I think that a law degree could provide very useful background for a physician. Lawyers are well-trained in verbal reasoning and communication. Uunfortunately this is often screwed up by the actual language they are forced to use in their practice... Most of my medical colleagues have trouble writing and communicating clearly (because they haven't been trained to do so, AND their language is also screwed up by the demands of medical writing).

For that reason, I would view a law degree about as favorably as I would a degree in English, Rhetoric, or Philosophy. If you can demonstrate competence in the science prerequistites with one of these non-science degrees, that should help, not hinder, your application to med school. I majored in English and got a second BA in Biology, and I feel that it was my training in literature that has helped me most in being a physician. I think a lawyer might feel the same way about his or her legal training.

Nick
 
While in undergrad, I had every intent of going to medical school. I majored in Biology on the Pre-Med track with a Chemistry minor, took the MCAT (I think it was a 31...9P, 10B, 12V) and applied to three schools. ECU, UNC and Wake. Rejected at UNC and ECU, waitlisted and eventually accepted at Wake. But for some reason I decided to take the LSAT, did great and went to law school.

caveat: i didn't take the time to read every post on this thread, just skimmed.

i might be alone in saying this, but i consider what you wrote above to be very troubling. if you're going to relay to admissions committees a good, honest story about yourself and your motivations for entering medicine, you're going to have to cover your bases and be prepared to provide an explanation as to why you didn't go to medical school after receiving an ACCEPTANCE. you don't need the reminder, but Wake's a great medical school. and there are plenty of threads on SDN poo-pooing those who reapply after receiving an acceptance their first time around.

i didn't take the time to read your other posts, so maybe you addressed your "but for some reason i decided to take the LSAT"...if you haven't, you need a great reason. chalk it up to immaturity, intellectual curiosity/challenge, etc., but don't imply that you don't remember why.

the question may never come up when you get to the interview stage, but again, i think you need to CYA in case it does. personally, if i were interviewing you, i'd go for that jugular and really probe your motivation(s) for a medical career.

(i'm a JD --> MD myself, btw - law license in NYS, but non-practicing.)
 
This message has been deleted.
 
i might be alone in saying this, but i consider what you wrote above to be very troubling. if you're going to relay to admissions committees a good, honest story about yourself and your motivations for entering medicine, you're going to have to cover your bases and be prepared to provide an explanation as to why you didn't go to medical school after receiving an ACCEPTANCE. you don't need the reminder, but Wake's a great medical school. and there are plenty of threads on SDN poo-pooing those who reapply after receiving an acceptance their first time around.

He was accepted off a waitlist(I'm assuming after May 15th), and even while being honest, he was already established at another academic program. There's no telling how late he was accepted and to what it would have cost to abandon his current program of study to pursue his acceptance to medical school. I would assume that most of the stigma goes to those who apply, get accepted to a school that isn't "good enough for them" and decides to apply again with more lofty goals in mind(with upturned nose, of course).
 
Thanks again shpamme :) One thing I believe I will need to make known from the get go is that I am not the typical student shadowing but am an attorney, which may put off some docs....But the thought about checking with the local med school's outreach/alumni offices is a great idea. As far as e-mailing the docs, I couldn't find e-mails of docs on the Duke site, will need to check the UNC one as well. If not, oh well, have to call as you said. Thanks for the tips!

I would tell them you are coming over from the dark side-- if nothing else, it should engender a laugh. I recommended ED physicians because they have the most flexible schedules to work with your job. That is what I did.
 
I'm not sure why you are posting on a thread about lawyers since you already said your background is computer science. Your view is pretty off with respect to this topic. In fact lawyers as a whole tend not to be ethically challenged because it is the profession with the most significant education in ethics and a profession in which many states require lawyers to have passed a professional responsibility exam. Not to mention that professional responsibillity is taken pretty seriously by state bars and so lawyers as a group are pretty attuned to ethical issues. There are a few bad apples out there, but it is a tiny fraction of lawyers who are ethically bankrupt.

And almost all lawyers do, to some degree help people -- it is a service industry, and your job is to assist people with problems. Some of the people you help are more worthy than others, but your job is largely to listen and render good advice to help your client accomplish his goals. Not that far afield from medicine.

While there are some doctors who are not the biggest fans of lawyers, that is not really the rule. Most physicians will have utilized lawyers for a variety of services unrelated to medmal, and every physician will likely be defended by a lawyer at some point. You have to make clear that you are not going to med school to learn how to sue doctors, but after that you tend not to face too many hurdles in this process. You want to emphasize your prior career and the transferable skills, not fear it. It will help you get into med school if you play it right, not keep you out.

Law2Doc--I don't know about law having the most ethical training and that there are only a few bad apples out there. I saw quite a few things that raised my eyebrow in practice. I think there are far more unethical attorneys then those that are caught in the act.

I emphasized the positive aspects of the profession but was prepared to discuss the more negative ones if they arose.
 
Law2Doc--I don't know about law having the most ethical training and that there are only a few bad apples out there. I saw quite a few things that raised my eyebrow in practice. I think there are far more unethical attorneys then those that are caught in the act.

I emphasized the positive aspects of the profession but was prepared to discuss the more negative ones if they arose.

Maybe I was fortunate, but in my career I worked with some of the most ethical people I've ever come across in my life in that field. I maintain that it is only a small fraction that are unethical -- but a small fraction of a huge number of lawyers out there admittedly is going to be enough to get noticed. At any rate, when med schools give talks on medical ethics, much of the time the lecturer is someone from the law school - this is not accidental. The prior poster clearly had an unfounded axe to grind with lawyers, and additionally, was a non-lawyer for some reason trying to give advice to lawyers on the impact of being a lawyer in the process, which was the impetus of my last post.
 
was a non-lawyer for some reason trying to give advice to lawyers on the impact of being a lawyer in the process, which was the impetus of my last post.

I'd look at it as a successful applicant giving advice on the process who is around doctors all day long.

I have no axe to grind with lawyers and I'll I was doing was giving my advice on getting into med school.

A couple of facts, in med school I'm around physicians all the time that constantly bash lawyers and make decisions and hide things from patients so they won't get sued.

Just to give you an example of the lawyer who taught our medmal day said "it is better to kill a patient then cripple them" ... because of course that would cost you less legally.

One guy even pre-screens his patients and won't establish a doctor-patient relationship if the person is a lawyer. Good luck sitting down with him as your adcom.

Don't underestimate the animosity towards the law profession.
 
You should go for it. If you don't you'll spend your whole life wondering, what if I had. No one should do what they hate, when there is an alternative even if it is at significant cost.
 
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