Advice for next year's SDNers

This is sage advice. One thing I'd like to add, as a side comment to #8 (not everyone who gets into clinical programs has 1400+ GRE scores and a 4.0 GPA) is that not everyone who has 1400+ GRE scores and a 4.0 GPA will get in to a clinical program. There are many people with amazing CVs, awesome GPAs and awesome scores that for some reason, did not get in anywhere. Maximize your odds; even if you have awesome numbers and decent experience I don't recommend applying to any fewer than 8 schools. Yes it's pricey and (maybe more importantly) mentally taxing and time-consuming, but it's worth it, because you never know how it will play out.

1. Visit the program locations and get as much information from them and possibly current students, before you apply even.
2. Apply early (if for no other reason just to get it out of the way so you are not stressing during Fall semester finals?).
3. Look for financial aid while you are applying- do not wait until you are interviewing/being accepted- most deadlines pass way before that time. Prepare financially for the worst case scenario in terms of finaid packages...
4. Have a plan in case you don't get accepted into your "backups"....actually, don't call any of the schools your "backups" because when those are the only ones that accept you, you will have a hard time explaining to everyone why your top choices changed so much!
5. Make sure the sacrifice of time, money, sanity, etc is worth it and that the degree you are pursuing will end you in the career field that you really want - do tons of research early on, before even deciding on which programs to apply, to find out from professionals in the field and others which kind of degree can get you in which jobs, and what the futures look like for all of these possibilities (ex: the relatively new trend of therapy being designated to master's level clinicians since it is cheaper for insurance companies....sooo what will this doctoral degree that takes at least twice as much time and money get you??)
6. Don't give up, as you go to each interview prepare as if it is the only school you would ever consider- do all the research on the program, be prepared to tell why you want to get that degree and in that specific program, why you are beyond qualified and competent, and what your best qualities are that will help them if they accept you, and make sure you think of a few intelligent questions to ask too.

Two more things to add:

1) When mailing materials, if you can afford it, use FedEx or UPS or something similar. Not having to stress over whether an envelope got there or how to get additional letters of rec because the originals didn't get there is SO worth it.

2) Don't decide what your 1st and last choice schools are until you visit a school for interviews. For everyone I know, interviews really changed their perspective on what school they wanted to attend. It's best to keep an open mind when interviewing and gather the same amounts of information about all your schools instead of immediately placing a school at the bottom of your list - you might be surprised how much you like the place.

And as irish said, always email your potential advisor before submitting an application! Good luck

1. Start saving now. This process is so damn expensive. Start setting money aside early. Also, work on increasing your credit limit. You’ll need it. Sigh.
2. Take the Psych GRE in April. It was so great not to have this hanging over my head in November. You will have so much else to do that month – make your life easier and take it now!
3. Network! Choose your programs and POIs early. Then, when professors or grad students ask where you are applying, list the ones they are most likely to know. If they are friends or colleagues with anyone from the program, feel them out and see if they might be willing to contact the person on your behalf. The director of the center I work at wrote an introductory letter of recommendation on behalf of the entire center and sent it to my POI (who he has known for years) at my first choice program. I got in. This never would have happened if I hadn’t been able to real off the names of my top choice programs/POIs back in September.
4. Ask for your letters of recommendation early, especially if you are applying to a lot of schools. Your recommenders will write better letters and are more likely to fill out all of the forms if they have more time. Also, shoot for at least 4 recommenders. That way, if you have problems with 1, you’ll still have the 3 letters required by most programs.
5. Use PDfill PDF editor. You can download it for $20 – just google it. My handwriting alone would have kept me out of graduate school – this allowed me to type every form. Best $20 I’ve ever spent!
6. Don’t Give Up on The GRE!!!! I’m still horrified by how close I came to just giving up on grad school because I didn’t think I could get my score up. Don’t get bogged down in complaining about the test or trying to get out of it. Buy the books, take a class, get a tutor, take time off from school/work – do whatever it takes to get, at the very least, a 500 on the verbal and a 600 on the math. Better yet, shoot for at least a 600 on both and a 1300 overall. Seriously, this is your life we’re talking about. Don’t let one stupid test stop you from achieving your dreams.

I’ll probably think of more later, but these were the first that jumped to mind!

Proofread, proofread, and proofread some more! THEN, get someone else to review your personal statement. And then? Well, find someone else to take a glance at it. Make sure you have no spelling errors, grammatical errors, punctuation errors. And DEFINITELY verify that you are spelling your POIs' names correctly . . . and finally, DO NOT send the wrong personal statement (along with wrong university name) to a program. You may scoff, but it happens to the best of us!

irish80122 said:

You wouldn't be speaking from experience now, would you? I do remember you mentioning that before

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ME?!? Noooo, not me. I'm entirely too smart to submit the wrong personal statement to a program!


. . .



And, oh, yeah. Ssssshhhhhhhh! I can't let it get out that I butchered my own application. I suspect I was unconsciously attempting to sabotage my applications to some programs.

Besides, I do believe that I recall a few others indicating they spelled professors' names incorrectly. Probably not quite as bad as the wrong program name, but still . . .

paramour said:

Besides, I do believe that I recall a few others indicating they spelled professors' names incorrectly.

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I have no idea what you're talking about...

I just wanted to thank you all for such helpful suggestions, especially Irish for starting this thread. I'm Psy.D bound and am planning to apply in November. I'm currently stressing out on the GRE's, but have yet to go through the entire application process. I'm so glad to have read this thread so early in the process! It's great to know there are such sincere and generous souls amongst us! Thanks so much again. I look forward to hearing from the rest who survived the process!

I just read through and I don't believe that anyone said anything about taking the GRE early. PLEASE, I BEG any of you who will be applying next fall to take the summer and study, and then take the GRE before you go back to school.

I just finished the most stressful two quarters in my undergraduate career, and I am partly at fault for not following the above advice. I had plans on taking the GRE last summer, but, well, laziness and procrastination won out. It's harder than you think and the scores are more important than anyone wants them to be. Plus, while you can take it again if you bomb the first time, both sets of scores are sent to all programs, and they are generally averaged together.

I can't stress this enough, along with the advice someone posted about taking the Psych GREs (if you need them, not all programs require them) in April if you can.

The application process, senior thesis, etc. is stressful enough without adding the godawful GRE process on top of it. Just get 'er done!

I didn't realize how often this easy-to-do step is overlooked although many admissions committees look for it: Join your state psychological associaion at best before you send your application in, at worst, before you interview. In addition, join the American Psychological Ass'n and Division 18 (The Division of Clinical Psychology). I know of 3 persons who made it to interviews who were later cut, partially because they were judged to be uninvolved in professional psych just because they were not membersof the APA and their state psych associations! It's relatively cheap to do, be sure to mention this on your vita or whatever....

At someone's suggestion, I'm cross-posting this from another thread. Its my take on the best things to do to get accepted

Hey, I think med schools would be a fantastic place to work. They generally have more funding than psych departments so there's more jobs, you're more likely to have access to some cool equipment if you're into the neuroimaging/psychophys/etc. kind of stuff, and many are very well connected.

That being said, I've always worked in psych departments It got me in, and someplace good, but I still believe I would have had more options had I been more selective about my post-BA employment.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with psychanon here and say definitely publish if at ALL possible. Everyone told me "oh it isn't an expectation", but competition is fierce in this field. It is entirely true that publications before grad school are an anomaly, but keep in mind that getting ACCEPTED to graduate school is also kind of an anomaly Anything you can do to help those odds is good. I never published, because I kept leaving labs right as the writing began. Its actually one of my bigger regrets from the past few years, since if I had the motivation I probably could have stayed involved as a volunteer and gotten at least one and as many as 3-4. I didn't even have an empirical poster, though I did give a non-empirical talk at a regional conference which probably helped.

I'll also second the idea that WHAT you do in the lab matters a lot. I've worked in many different labs, one with an EXTREMELY well known researcher, others that are respected, but younger and less established.
I've spoken to a lot of undergrads who seem to think that the fact that they are graduating with honors and spent a semester doing data entry or hooking someone up to heart monitors makes them good grad school candidates. I'm trying not to laugh when I'm their boss, and not to sound snooty, but my credentials are often MUCH better than theirs, and I barely scraped in this year

Get experience doing everything. Find something to make you marketable. For me its the fact that I'm a tech geek and can do damn near anything computer-related. Its a rare trait in psychology and one every one of my letter writers emphasized and it got brought up in all my interviews If you're good at stats, get experience with that and prove it to your letter writers. If you are a brilliant writer, make sure you prove it to your letter writers. Genetics and neuroscience are pretty hot fields right now, if you have experience in a genetics or neuro lab as well as a more traditional psych lab, so much the better.

These are all things I've pieced together myself through this whole process that I really wish someone had sat down and told me earlier, so I hope someone finds it helpful. Really it all boils down to "market yourself". This is not a field where being a good student, or even being a great student, will get you jack ****. Find some way to differentiate yourself from the 1000000 other people applying with a 4.0 and a few hundred hours of data entry/running subjects. From what I have seen, profs are looking for someone who in addition to being a "match" to their interests, will bring something unique to the lab. Find something you are better at than most other people in this field, find professors who need that skill, and your odds of getting in will be much better.

Things I've learned this year:

Create checklists for each school you plan on applying to, such that you have a list of which documents are needed for which school, deadlines for applications, when GRE scores and recommendation letters are sent, etc. It will help you keep track of what's been sent where, which can quickly become confusing when you're applying to several schools.

Create an envelope for every school you apply to that you can staple the checklist onto and place materials/info about the school inside. It may sound basic, but having an organized system for each school really makes a difference in keeping track of which school has what program/which professor, etc., etc. Moreover, when you start hearing from schools about interviews/rejections, it's easy to file away documents from them that you can easily retrieve at a later date (and there's a small sense of satisfaction in being organized, which helps in the chaos that is the process )

It's been said several times but...contact professors who you may want to work with and ask them if they're considering taking a graduate student in the next year. Ask them in early fall, when they're likely to know what they're doing but also not so early that they may decide to go on sabbatical and not so late that they're being inundated with work and other emails.

It's all about the fit: spend some time reflecting on what you want to get out of a doctoral program. Then spend time searching for schools which match what you want and have the professors whose research interests you. An easy way to get this done is to look at the authors of research papers you really like and look at the school they're associated with. Look at the philosophy of the program and decide if it's one you like or could live with. Think about what parts of the country you're willing to live in; it's easier to find compatible programs if you're willing to live anywhere, but it has to be something you're comfortable doing.

Don't worry if you want to go to graduate school immediately from undergraduate. Talk with your advisors and current graduate students about your experiences and the realistic chances of getting into grad school vs taking time off to work. It can definitely be done but recognize that this is going to be a long and challenging process (read: applying can take the place of a 5th and a 6th class), particularly if you're writing a thesis at the same time as you start doing interviews. That being said, it is manageable, particularly if you're really motivated.

Good luck!

edieb said:

I didn't realize how often this easy-to-do step is overlooked although many admissions committees look for it: Join your state psychological associaion at best before you send your application in, at worst, before you interview. In addition, join the American Psychological Ass'n and Division 18 (The Division of Clinical Psychology). I know of 3 persons who made it to interviews who were later cut, partially because they were judged to be uninvolved in professional psych just because they were not membersof the APA and their state psych associations! It's relatively cheap to do, be sure to mention this on your vita or whatever....

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I disagree with this. Certainly wouldn't hurt but I don't think this is relevant for the vast majority of schools. I have never heard mention of this and none of the 12 programs I applied to gave any indication this was an expectation.

Perhaps others that have been on admissions panels can give some insight. Would hate for people to spend the time and money if not needed (even if it's relatively cheap).

I'd say that while being an APA/whatever else member will not hurt you, I doubt that alone will prevent you from getting in most places.

That being said JOIN THEM! You get all kinds of discounts on textbooks, conferences, journals, etc. I used the $30 (or whatever it was) that you get towards a journal subscription when you join APA to get one for about 7 dollars. Lo and behold, one of my interviewees published in it shortly before I went to an interview. I read his article on the plane, and it was a great thing to discuss at the interview.

Obviously things like that won't happen every time, but still...if you join as a grad student you get GradPsych magazine and I think its an American Psychologist subscription? Can't remember what the other one is, but both of those often have some interesting stuff in them. If you're as big a nerd as I am (and I think this is one place where I bet most people are ) you love reading that kind of stuff anyways.

Bajrinna said:

Things I've learned this year:

Create checklists for each school you plan on applying to, such that you have a list of which documents are needed for which school, deadlines for applications, when GRE scores and recommendation letters are sent, etc. It will help you keep track of what's been sent where, which can quickly become confusing when you're applying to several schools.

Create an envelope for every school you apply to that you can staple the checklist onto and place materials/info about the school inside. It may sound basic, but having an organized system for each school really makes a difference in keeping track of which school has what program/which professor, etc., etc. Moreover, when you start hearing from schools about interviews/rejections, it's easy to file away documents from them that you can easily retrieve at a later date (and there's a small sense of satisfaction in being organized, which helps in the chaos that is the process )

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Organization is key! I would have lost my mind by now if I hadn't created file folders for documents and checklists about deadlines. The worst part is when some schools ask that you mail all of your transcripts, recommendations, and application materials in one envelope, whereas others ask each to be sent to them directly but some to the grad office and some to the psych office - this affects the addresses that you give to your recommenders and to your undergrad institution for mailing transcripts. Allow enough time to sort out where every piece of mail is going - that process was a nightmare in itself for me since each of my schools had completely different instructions.

Speaking of recommenders, try to make this process as easy for them as possible. Give them a packet of information: include your CV, explicit directions of where to mail every item and when they have to be mailed, pre-addressed and stamped envelopes, a summary of your ideal research interests, and perhaps the reason that you chose to ask them to write your recommendation (what perspective are you hoping that they will bring to your application?). Too much information can't hurt - worst case, they just won't use it!

One other thing to go along with the organization piece - as soon as you start emailing professors to see if there's a potential fit and if they are accepting students, create a folder in your email account for that particular school. I used Gmail and gmail labels for each school were SO helpful! When you're doing your application essay, it really helps to be able to quickly find emails from a particular school or professor (you can even quickly double check spellings of people's names this way). And throughout the whole process, you'll end up with a lot more emails from or about different schools than you would have thought, so it helps to be organized from the very beginning!!

Just a note regarding my personal experience with research interests/match with current faculty . . . It honestly may not be everything.

Now, I know some of you are sitting there with your jaws agape. What?! Did she really just say that?

Yes. Yes, I really and truly did. Why? Because I've been interviewed by individuals interested in me that I did not even list as POIs. My interests were nowhere close to their realm of expertise.

And, furthermore, I've now been accepted to work with an individual who is not directly related to my own research interests. This may slightly irk a few I know who felt they were "perfect matches" for one of these professors, whereas mine was only "semi-related", but 'tis true. I thought that I was screwed for sure when both my interviewers at my accepted program indicated they just didn't think I would be a good fit because my research interests did not align with theirs. So, how the heck did I make it? Because I was able to tell them what I would bring to their labs and how my research interests could be related to their work, albeit on the extreme edge of their research parameters.

I've had profs advise me that research fit is indeed important but you can get accepted at programs by POIs who may initially seem a poor match, as long as you can justify why your interests could be related . . . and if you are bringing something to them that other students with perhaps a better fit in research may not be able to . . . For example, I had a POI who indicated during the course of an interview that she accepted one student in a past application cycle simply because he had programming experience. His research interests were not a "perfect match" but she desired someone with the interest in and ability to program. He had it, whereas others did not, so he was the student for her.

Research interests are indeed important but they may not be everything. It likely varies upon the professor and/or program. As others have advised in earlier posts, try to contact potential professors in advance of applying to see what they are looking for in an applicant. Someone you think may be 'perfect' for you may not be the match in heaven that you initially thought, whereas someone you think might be a bit far-fetched may be the one to reel you into their program. My profs advised me of this during my application cycle as it occurred when some of them were applying many moons ago, but I didn't really believe it until it happened to me. So, it is possible, although perhaps somewhat more stressful to consider.

As with everything, there are entirely too many variables in this entire process. So, what works for one may not for another . . . Some may tell you that your GPA, GRE, research experience, lack of research interests, etc. may completely screw you over for acceptance to a particular program. And, it may. But then again, it may not. It all depends on entirely too many things that most of us cannot predict for you . . .

G'luck!

Maybe this should be a new thread...but perhaps a comprehensive list of things you can to do increase chances of getting in?

- GPA and GREs...the obvious
- Research experience in professor's labs outside of just entering data
- Independent researchm even if it's not completed yet, at least something in the works
- Joining organizations...APA, etc???
- Having had an internship
- Conference poster presentations
- publications
- emailings with prospective professors???
- having a research "match"
- ....anything else??

I'm going to reiterate the importance of organization... it is ESSENTIAL. I could not have gotten through this process without lists on top of lists of what school needed which thing and when it all was due.

I also agree that patience is key... do anything you can to decrease the freak-out factor you will inevitably experience. For me, the best thing to do was STAY BUSY. I graduated from undergrad in December, and the entire month of January was spent work-less and school-less for me... meaning I had a TON of time on my hands to stalk my email accounts, this website, etc. So just keep yourself busy and away from the computer as much as possible. I promise, the schools will not take back an interview invite just because you didn't respond within 30 seconds of it being sent!

Find a support system. You will need this for the rest of your life, and I'm sure you've needed it in the past, so really it's just a great thing to have in place. But especially with applying to grad schools... it helps to have another person/couple people who are checking the mailbox for your letters and who are there to scream with you when you find out you get interviews and get in. Honestly, you need people to turn to who understand (even if not firsthand) how difficult and emotional this all is.

One more thing I think is REALLY important is to talk with people who are going through/have gone through this process. It really helps to have someone to ask questions. Unfortunately for me, I came from a highly research oriented school, and thus I knew no one else who wanted to get a PsyD. This website helped some, and so did a facebook group I joined... it's just nice to hear what others are thinking/experiencing because this process is really stressful. Feel free to PM me (even if you're reading this post months after the date it was posted) to ask questions.

And remember, this process will eventually end (though it's hard to believe it at times). I've got only one more interview to go and I've already received 2 acceptances (which completely decreases the stress of interviewing). It's almost over. I can see the finish line! So hang in there!

irish80122 said:

Overall I agree, but I do think match is very very important. You don't have to be a perfect match, some depends on what you can bring to the table. I am one of those who does have some programming experience, and I know that probably helped me though I have no idea how much. Really I think that is part of the match, you being able to fill a need for whatever university you are applying to. When we talk about match it is more than merely research interests. For example, one program I interviewed with was a pretty decent research match but it was far too clinical for my tastes (and I was far too research oriented for theirs). For that reason it wasn't a good match. Your research interests are an important part of a match, but they aren't everything. I still think if you don't fit a program, you are not going to get an acceptance regardless of how selective it is.

Basically, the best advice I can give prospective students on match is don't apply based on geography if you can help it at all. I know SEVERAL very good students who did this and didn't receive an interview. Instead, look for programs that fit what you are looking for and that you can bring value. Once you find that, you will have that great match we refer to. Trust me though, say you were to get into a program in the right city but that is a poor match...you will be miserable. 5+ years is too long of a time to be miserable. Find a good match and it will pay off for you in the long-run, even if it is in Podunk city or wherever...it isn't like you will have time to experience the city anyways .

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I agree match is extremely important and more than just research interests--Many of us know that already. Unfortunately, I know a few too many people who still think that match=research interests alone. And, then get extremely upset because their "perfect match" did not/does not want them. Just keep in mind that simply because you think that you're a perfect match does not necessarily mean that you are one. More goes into it than that . . . whether you know it or think it or not.

And, good point regarding geography. Do not use this as your major criteria for school selection. I know of a gal who selected every single one of her programs except for one because they were in a certain geographic area that she really wanted to be. The programs are not a great match for her, in addition to not receiving any funding, and she's now questioning whether she should reapply next year because she's unsure if she could honestly "make it" while there. But, but, but, I reeeeaaaallly like the city . . . Hell, if you like a place so much, go there for vacation, doesn't mean you choose your grad school based upon it. I had one prof actually recommend that I look for programs NOT in larger cities because they tend to be a distraction for many individuals (in addition to the cost of living).

[Sorry if this is a bit incoherent--I'm currently suffering a major headache that does not want to go away! ]

irish80122 said:

No, it actually is quite coherent and I think you are exactly right. I am going to put the next part in bold because it hasn't been mentioned much but is ESSENTIAL.

BE OPEN!!! Having a first choice school, or a top three in my case, happens naturally but try to be equally open to all of the schools you interview at. Be open minded and see what they have to offer! You will find some of your "perfect match" schools are not matches at all, but rather you would hate being there. You may also find that a school that is ranked lower than another in the long run may be the better option for you. Or, you can be like me and have a favorite going into your interviews, really enjoy the interview at your favorite, and then have all your other interviews drive home the point that that should be your favorite. Anyway, long story short, be open.

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Oh, oh, oh! THIS reminds me . . . Please, please, PLEASE DO NOT SELECT what schools you want to go to simply because they're ranked in the top 10-20 by U. S. News & World Report. Hell, I oddly enough tried to stay away from the majority of those programs. If you only apply to top 10 programs, you may be sitting here at the end of your application cycle wondering why, oh, why, you did not receive any acceptances.

It also amazes me the number of people who think they can apply to ONE program and get accepted into it (yes, I know a few who did and now they're complaining because "that stupid school didn't accept me").

Get over yourself already! You may think that you're the greatest gift on earth--some of your profs, friends, & family may think the same. You truly may be an outstanding student but this does not guarantee you an acceptance. As Irish mentioned earlier in the thread, awesome GREs, GPAs, and research experience alone do not automatically bring admissions offers your way.

I've skimmed the above posts and wanted to add my two cents. If you are applying this coming fall, I would say you're already ahead of the game by networking on SDN this early. I'm at a small liberal arts school in which I am really the only one applying to clinical PhD. programs. I was in the dark for a bit, but these forums did help.

Anyways, some tips:

1. GRE stuff: Study early, even if it just a little bit each day. I did this for about two months. Although my verbal wasn't as high as I had hoped, taking it again is okay. My score went up over a 100 points. Don't get down on yourself--there is always room to improve. Also, note that GRE isn't everything. It mainly gets your foot in the door.

2. Personal statement: I don't know how many drafts I went throug, but it was ridiculous. I started writing it in June and didn't finish my final tweaks until November. Have your advisor or a professor you trust read over it. An extra set of eyes always helps.

3. Organization: Critical. It is best to get things out early if you can. Also, give your LoRs plenty of time. I gave mine seven weeks, in which I gave them my CV, all the school forms, a list of deadlines, and insturctions for letters for each school (you could add your personal statement if you wish--one asked for it). Despite this time, a few still didn't get it done until days before the deadline. On this note, I would suggest giving your LoRs a fake due date--a week or so prior to when it is actually due. That way, no last minute letters in the mail. But overall, keeping yourself organized and on track is the best way to keep your sanity.

4. The waiting game: REALLY SUCKS!! However, you should have a sheet that has all the schools you applied to, with your PoIs names, type of program, and so on. That way, if you get a random interview call, you can have this sheet on hand. Also, carry a spare copy of your CV and a bit of what you had in your personal statement about that school. My advisor suggested this to me, and I didn't use it because all my schools left a message on my cell phone (calling during classtime and what not), but it still is a good idea.

5. Have a backup plan. I was lucky to have three interviews. However, I have six rejections and am wait-listed at 2 schools--one clinical PhD. and one general psych. masters. I just met with my advisor on my backup plan, and we went over every credential I had to figure out, in a sense, what happened. I really didn't have a huge loophole, but I applied staright out of undergrad. Basically, it is a crap-shoot. This was not what my internal locus of control needed to hear, but it is true. It is hard not to take rejections personally, and the waiting, the interviews, and the waiting to hear back--this all takes a huge toll on you psychologically. It is not a fun experience, and it is best to be realistic. You may not get in--be prepared to deal with this reality and have a back-up plan in place before you begin. Even if you think about it only for a little bit of time, just have one there.

6. Match: This is the bottom line, beyond anything else. Although we would like to believe it is something more objective than this, it is how you get in. Accordingly, keep this in mind when selecting schools. You may have the mean GRE and GPA based on discolsure data, but what is the selection ratio? That statistic is more important in my mind, which I think I underestimated. Schools like Boston U. or Rutgers U. will basically hand-pick who they want--desite test scores or GPA. You have to senes that you can give them the overall package, and not match just on superficial terms. Select schools that you are above the GPA and GRE averages, although this is no guarantee. For example, U. of Mississippi--I was way above both averages and was still rejected post-interview. It just boils down to fit.

7. There is always next year: If you are one of the unlucky ones, it is not the end of the world. I know how much rejection sucks, but that is why the back-up plan is there. Especially for those who got interviews, throw your hat in the ring again next year. Getting an interview offer basically tells you that you are good enough to be admitted--but they want to see how well you fit overall. I know there are several people on SDN that applied two (or even three) times. I know that if I don't get in off the wait-list, I will just try again next year. I don't like the idea of repeating this hellish process, but this is what I want to do. So long as you know that, you just have to try again.

Okay, this was a really long post. I hope I didn't repeat too much, and that it aids some of you out there.

i must say that match, contacting my POI early, and my school really carried me to my acceptance. I know people say the prestige of your undergrad doesn't really matter, but that was one of the main things my POI said that countered my below avg GPA (3.53). I was also able to counter a poor verbal GRE because English isn't my first language.

I also had zero posters/ conferences/papers, came straight from undergrad, and definitely turned in everything the day it was due but I got to know my POI pretty well beyond his CV/papers/etc and he really helped me through my app process by editing my SoP and giving me advice on how to strengthen my application.

I got really really lucky (and the added bonus of my SO going to this school as well). but my advice is just to try to make some sort of connection with your POI. not only will that gauge how well you might get along with him/her, but you could potentially have someone who will be your champion.

This thread will be SO helpful to me next year. I am already printing off posts and putting them in my notebook to read back over.

One question; I know a lot of you mention contacting your POI early, talking about their research with them, and seeing if they are accepting students. I had a professor mention this in a grad school seminar, and I initially thought it was a bad idea. I guess I felt it was kinda...intrusive? I don't know.

For those of you who did do this, were you met with decently favorable results? Were there any professors who flat out didn't respond or didn't seem to want to discuss their research with you?

Its not intrusive at all, its all a part of the process.
One prof from Manitoba never responded to me, so he was off the list. Other than that I contacted 16 professors and the other 15 all at least responded, some being neutral (which just seemed to be because they were busy) with most being extremely positive.

One then called me and had some of his grad students call me and I basically did an interview before I even applied. I think it probably meant I would have gotten in had I desired to pursue it (I blew off the actual interview day because I already had an offer from a school I like more and plane tickets were $500).

Furthermore, at most schools (in fact, every single school I was considering), not every faculty member takes a student every year. If you don't email and ask, you may have wasted however many hours you spend writing your personal statements and filling out the applications, $100 of application fees and scores being sent and postage, etc. only to have your application tossed in the shredder within 10 minutes of it arriving because that prof isn't taking a student this year.

One thing you'll find in the academic world is that EVERYONE likes discussing their research with you, regardless of whether you want to discuss it with them Some profs are busier than others so don't be surprised if you get a short response, but none have been negative about it. My emails were about 2 paragraphs long, one professor sent back "Thanks for the email, the answer is yes" (the question was "Are you taking students"). That was the school I got into

So that was my needlessly verbose way of saying Yes, definitely contact professors. Only the most mean spirited and nasty would take offense to something like that, and you wouldn't want to work with someone like that anyways. It will work in your favor and if you explain a bit about what you have been doing and why you like their research, your app will definitely stand out from the bunch.

How many people think it is wrong to submit an application which says you are willing to work with one of a few professors? All in the same area or even different areas. Of course you could still contact all the professors to see what they say as to if they are accepting. However, many seem to be uncertain and often some do not respond. Also there may be a few professors with whom you think you could work well. Could this be construed by the school as an attempt to fit in wherever there is room or by who ever is interested in taking you or does this make one sound too general and unfocused. My guess is that most of you will say that this make one sound undirected and to pick out one person. On the otherhand, by naming a few professors, one might pick it up, whereas if you only named one professor you might miss out on an opportunity entirely if you only named only one professor who in the end did not take an interest.

well, all of my SoP has My interest overlays with AB, CD, and EF because blah blah blah. I am particularly interested in working with AB because blah blah blah.

GiantSteps said:

How many people think it is wrong to submit an application which says you are willing to work with one of a few professors? All in the same area or even different areas. Of course you could still contact all the professors to see what they say as to if they are accepting. However, many seem to be uncertain and often some do not respond. Also there may be a few professors with whom you think you could work well. Could this be construed by the school as an attempt to fit in wherever there is room or by who ever is interested in taking you or does this make one sound too general and unfocused. My guess is that most of you will say that this make one sound undirected and to pick out one person. On the otherhand, by naming a few professors, one might pick it up, whereas if you only named one professor you might miss out on an opportunity entirely if you only named only one professor who in the end did not take an interest.

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I don't see this as a problem at all. When I e-mailed my PoIs, I typically had two for each program. I contacted them separately and didn't mention that I was interested in another professor until my personal statement. That is a good spot to put a plug in about the school and explain how your interests match those interests of Prof. X and Prof. Y. I think with the exception of one school, I had two options listed at all my schools. It shows flexibility and gives you more chances to get in (at least in my book).

For some programs, you are applying for a specific lab, which sucks. For example, at the University of Tulsa, I didn't find out until the interview day that half of us that were there were trying to get into the two PTSD labs, which had one spot each (and half of the overall application pool wanted to go into those two labs). You just can't predict or do anything about these sorts of odds. I felt that I was a great match with Tulsa, but there were very few spots available. It happens. I guess the round-about message of this tangent is that making yourself available for more than one person is generally a good thing for you and for the school when making a decision.

I totally agree with Blindblonde about stating you'd want to work with at least a couple of professors. There are several reasons for this:

1. Most schools will request of you, at least somewhere in their application, to mention the names of several faculty members you'd like to work with. I didn't apply to a single school that asked for less than 2, and applied to several schools that asked for upwards of four or five! To ignore this request and only pick one person, I think, would be a mistake.

2. At some schools, the professors do have highly similar interests. It can also be the case that a clinical program has a "track" or "stream" or sub-department devoted to one area of clinical psychology like a "Child" specialization. This is the case at many schools...U of W, U of Denver, and Fordham, to name a few. At a school like Fordham, the program explicitly explains that they are more interested in admitting students that are right for the track than to either of their faculty members' labs. Another reason to highlight interests in more than one professor.

3. Sometimes you will be invited to interview at a school without being contacted by a POI, or without being notified by the school who you will be interviewing with. In this case, you would have been the wiser to cast a wider net of faculty members you are interested in, in the event that on interview day, you don't interview with your top choice (or interview with more than one professor).

4. Somtimes one just ain't enough. I think Paramour is a perfect example of this (I had a similar situation as well). You may go to an interview thinking Dr. So-and-so is so great, you'll be perfect for their lab..blah blah blah.THEN...you go to interview with them and you find out (depsite your many attempts at Googling them, reading their website bios and vitas, reading all of their most current publications you could get your hands on) that you don't like them! -OR- they may explain that you're just not what they're looking for. BUT, being that perhaps you initially shared with the school several people you'd be interested in working with, you may be introduced to a faculty member you like more, and/or who likes you just as well.

Some schools may really only have one professor your are interested in- the other faculty members might as well be martians. This is the best case in which it doesn't make much sense to stretch your interest so widely that it would be laughable to select multiple faculty members. At any rate, most of the time, it will help you rather than hurt you, to mention a few names instead of just one.

While it's definitely a good idea to list 2 or 3 POIs on your application, and many applications ask for 2+ names, I think you should only contact your first choice one ahead of time. If that person says that he or she is not taking a student, then reach out to your second choice one. I base this advice on a paragraph from The Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology, page 60:

"Some students have asked whether it is acceptable to send letters to more than one faculty member at the same program. Despite the fact that applicants may have multiple research and clinical interests, most faculty (ourselves included) have a negative reaction to learning that the same person has written to more than one faculty member. Remember, there is a certain amount of self-interest involved: We're looking for bright, motivated students to collaborate on research and clinical work. It can be awkward when an admissions committee is discussing an applicant, and two faculty express a desire to work with him/her, only to find that the applicant has been actively expressing an interest in both of them. Our advice: Don't write to more than one faculty member in one program."

I agree with previous posters...I mentioned 2-3 POIs in my statement of purpose, but only contacted my number one directly. I think that only identifying one POI, period, can really limit you.

How early would yall recommend contacting PoIs/potential PoIs (to verify that they are actually studying what the university says they're studying)?

blindchaos said:

How early would yall recommend contacting PoIs/potential PoIs (to verify that they are actually studying what the university says they're studying)?

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I started contacting PoIs around September. That is usually the time applications are available on websites and the "application season" persay begins. Some professors may know if they are taking students before that point, but it is generally a good idea to start in the fall. Some start over the summer, but there is no guarantee that you'll hear back at that time. There is a lot of flexibility with this.

And as for the points above, I totally agree. I only had two listed max when contacting my schools, and the choices were fairly close in interets. Usually by the time interview offers go out, you will be asked to list 3 choices (it was true for all 3 interviews I had), although they know you have a primary focus at that point. You want to applear flexible, but still have a concentrated area of interest...if that makes sense.

What is everyone's opinion on what to do if you do not hear back from a potential POI to whom you have written? Many write back but some do not. Obviously, if another potential POI writes back there is no problem. Also, you could write again. However, if no one writes back would you still apply to the school or not?

GiantSteps said:

What is everyone's opinion on what to do if you do not hear back from a potential POI to whom you have written? Many write back but some do not. Obviously, if another potential POI writes back there is no problem. Also, you could write again. However, if no one writes back would you still apply to the school or not?

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It really depends. Of mine, 10/12 responded to me. The one that didn't reply (and I still applied) was Boston University. I figured they get 400+ applications per year, so responding to PoI requests can be a bit hard. The other one was a school I didn't contact the PoIs. The reason was that they listed on their website "so-in-so is taking students for the 2007 school year" and such. I felt that they put that up so they wouldn't deal with as many e-mails if they could help it, so there was no reason to do it.

However, I remember I was looking at one school and tried to contact my PoIs and the e-mails would bounce back as spam. I thought, "Well, you're off my list." I wasn't too warm and fuzzy about the school to begin with, and that sealed the deal for me. I was only e-mailing PoIs because I felt it had a good prgoram, good research match, and could work. But little things like this can make or break a "match" in a heartbeat.

So the bottom line is this: If you don't hear back, are you willing to take a gamble that they are taking students? If it is a big university (i.e. Boston) that is your dream school, then go ahead. But I will still hold that in most cases, professors want to be helpful in this process and will respond (even if it takes a week or so for them to do so).

I'm really kind of upset with Arizona. I contacted my POI back in the fall and got no response. Then I emailed her again a few weeks ago to say that even though I was rejected I'd really like to apply to her again next year because her research is so similar to my interests and I asked a few questions... and was ignored again. It wouldn't be so disheartening if it wasn't one of my favourite schools.

GiantSteps said:

What is everyone's opinion on what to do if you do not hear back from a potential POI to whom you have written? Many write back but some do not. Obviously, if another potential POI writes back there is no problem. Also, you could write again. However, if no one writes back would you still apply to the school or not?

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I know of one professor who refuses to reply to emails from applicants because he thinks it gives the applicant an unfair advantage. I don't really agree with this philosophy (at least let us know whether you're taking students, aaaargghhh!), but he doesn't refuse to answer because he's a jerk. He's actually supposed to be a really nice guy and a great mentor. So my point is that you probably shouldn't judge a program based entirely on responses to emails, especially if the website specifies who is taking students or asks applicants not to contact professors directly (a few do).

Of course I also know of profs who refuse to answer because they are jerks and don't think applicants should waste their precious time (and would probably be horrible mentors), but you can't judge based entirely on an email.

I am inspired to write this after reading about joetro's acceptance to UCLA:

Some people might disagree with this but....

Apply broadly (at least 10 schools) ONLY IF you are sure your application is as good as it is going to get. If you are applying straight out of undergrad or if you feel like you will have future oppurtunities to improve your application (i.e. - significantly raise your GRE score, get more researche experience, publish), then I would only apply to the schools that you would be absolutly thrilled to attend. No safety schools.

I say this because, had I applied straight out of undergrad, there is a chance I might have gotten into 1 or 2 schools, and I probably would have just gone to whatever school would take me. I am very relieved that I waited two years and will be attending my first choice school.

SO - if you really want to apply straight out of undergrad or whatever, knock yourself out. It's your money and, who knows, you might end up somewhere great. But I wouldn't settle for your 13th choice school when, after just a year or two, you could be getting into your 1st choice.

amy203 said:

I am inspired to write this after reading about joetro's acceptance to UCLA:

Some people might disagree with this but....

Apply broadly (at least 10 schools) ONLY IF you are sure your application is as good as it is going to get. If you are applying straight out of undergrad or if you feel like you will have future oppurtunities to improve your application (i.e. - significantly raise your GRE score, get more researche experience, publish), then I would only apply to the schools that you would be absolutly thrilled to attend. No safety schools.

I say this because, had I applied straight out of undergrad, there is a chance I might have gotten into 1 or 2 schools, and I probably would have just gone to whatever school would take me. I am very relieved that I waited two years and will be attending my first choice school.

SO - if you really want to apply straight out of undergrad or whatever, knock yourself out. It's your money and, who knows, you might end up somewhere great. But I wouldn't settle for your 13th choice school when, after just a year or two, you could be getting into your 1st choice.

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That is EXCELLENT advice and I wish I'd heard it months ago. heh.

I would not allow a professor's lack of response to my inquiry to influence my decision on whether I should apply to that program. Some of my favorite profs are ones who would not reply for various reasons. Also, keep in mind that your emails may be ignored if they do not previously know you, and/or email filters could be sending you to their SPAM folder. Unfortunate, but it happens.

*wonders if I am the only one who did not email POIs ahead of time*

paramour said:

I would not allow a professor's lack of response to my inquiry to influence my decision on whether I should apply to that program. Some of my favorite profs are ones who would not reply for various reasons. Also, keep in mind that your emails may be ignored if they do not previously know you as email filters could be sending you to their SPAM folder. Unfortunate, but it happens.

*wonders if I am the only one who did not email POIs ahead of time*

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I only emailed a couple ahead of time... the ones I thought I could really connect with. Neither of 'em replied. haha.

RayneeDeigh said:

I only emailed a couple ahead of time... the ones I thought I could really connect with. Neither of 'em replied. haha.

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Whew! T'was beginning to think I was probably rejected to all my programs because I didn't harass professors enough or some strange thing like that.

Now that I think about it, I actually did email a POI a few years back when I was applying to my master's program and I never received a response from him. Of course, I email him now and typically do not receive a response either. Some people simply do not like email.

amy203 said:

I am inspired to write this after reading about joetro's acceptance to UCLA:

Some people might disagree with this but....

Apply broadly (at least 10 schools) ONLY IF you are sure your application is as good as it is going to get. If you are applying straight out of undergrad or if you feel like you will have future oppurtunities to improve your application (i.e. - significantly raise your GRE score, get more researche experience, publish), then I would only apply to the schools that you would be absolutly thrilled to attend. No safety schools.

I say this because, had I applied straight out of undergrad, there is a chance I might have gotten into 1 or 2 schools, and I probably would have just gone to whatever school would take me. I am very relieved that I waited two years and will be attending my first choice school.

SO - if you really want to apply straight out of undergrad or whatever, knock yourself out. It's your money and, who knows, you might end up somewhere great. But I wouldn't settle for your 13th choice school when, after just a year or two, you could be getting into your 1st choice.

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even in this case, when I knew my chances at a school was pretty darn good, the POI still encouraged me to apply to more than the 4-6 schools I originally wanted. He said that it was because they like to know what other schools you are applying to (of course it is totally up to you if you want to disclose this). it would look very funny if they were the only school or if all the other schools somehow were "off" i.e. psy.d vs ph.d or a school that heavily emphasized adhd when this school was emotional/autism focus. With my interest, applying to UC Berkeley would have killed my application because no one there is doing research I indicated interest in.

Honestly, I think you can contact all the professors you're interested in at any school. First, they honestly don't talk to eachother that much about these emails. The chance that they talk over each of the 25+ emails they received from prospectives is pretty slim. In fact, I got a number of interviews and I think one of the many factors was that I always listed 2-3 people I was interested in working with, and I mostly knew they were all taking students (some never respond to emails; that always happens). It just increases your chances to do that. Some emails I received even let me know that other professors in the department had similar research interests, and I should look at them in addition. In fact, I actually had long email exchanges and gave CVs to professors at a couple schools, and then got interviews to work with completely different professors at the same school! So, I don't really think they were talking to eachother that much!

LadyInRed said:

While it's definitely a good idea to list 2 or 3 POIs on your application, and many applications ask for 2+ names, I think you should only contact your first choice one ahead of time. If that person says that he or she is not taking a student, then reach out to your second choice one. I base this advice on a paragraph from The Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology, page 60:

"Some students have asked whether it is acceptable to send letters to more than one faculty member at the same program. Despite the fact that applicants may have multiple research and clinical interests, most faculty (ourselves included) have a negative reaction to learning that the same person has written to more than one faculty member. Remember, there is a certain amount of self-interest involved: We're looking for bright, motivated students to collaborate on research and clinical work. It can be awkward when an admissions committee is discussing an applicant, and two faculty express a desire to work with him/her, only to find that the applicant has been actively expressing an interest in both of them. Our advice: Don't write to more than one faculty member in one program."

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