- Joined
- Jul 5, 2004
- Messages
- 59
- Reaction score
- 0
please delete this.
I must have submitted this twice.. sorry.
I must have submitted this twice.. sorry.
I've decided on EM as a career and will be applying to programs in a few months, but after a recent FM conference, speaking with a FM doc opened up a few questions.
He brought up some interesting points about becoming a FM doc and practicing EM. FM docs can practice EM in the ED and when they feel as to though the career is too stressful for their age they can resort to FM which is clearly less strenuous. He had mentioned that the only drawback was that if you are an EM doc they only thing you can do to lower the stress is cut your shifts down.
Since the ED pays an hourly rate, I would be getting paid as an "EM doc" also.
He said the only catch is that you would not be able to be a director without the EM certification.. of course.
I'm still thinking about applying to EM, But based on what he says, if there is no problem in finding a spot working in the ED as a FM doc, then why wouldnt it be nice to just have that ability to fall back on practicing as a FM doc when the shift work gets too stressful? Plus.. you got a pick of the residencies and could prob end up in the location of your liking a lot easier..
I've heard EM docs say dont do it! but why..?
Bottom line, if you want to do EM, do EM.
I've heard EM docs say dont do it! but why..?
Christiana does have a dual FM/EM residency if you really can't make up your mind.
Many (and possibly >50%) of the EPs in Canada are family physicians who do a 3rd year fellowship in EM.
FM residency is only 2 years in Canada?
FM residency is only 2 years in Canada?
FM residency is only 2 years in Canada?
Yeah, but with the conversion it's five months as a school nurse and one friday a month for two years.
To the OP: If you want to do EM, complete an EM residency. If you're worried about burning out, you don't really want EM and you will burn out and probably should have chosen something different, like flipping burgers.
However, it is impossible (even today) to get jobs in ED's in urban and even surburban hospitals.
I would argue that residency training outweighs the ongoing practice value and should still be the only path to board certification.
FM does not actively try to get board certification in any of those fields, but because they feel EM isn't a "true" specialty, that there should be a backdoor into it.
The AAFP is opposed to the use of specialty board certification as the sole or exclusionary criterion in determining medical staff membership.
There are two ways to EM in Canada, and FM is one of them. I forgot the other, but it's not like here, where you do EM straight through.
Sorry, but I'm flagging that play.
Here's a link to the AAFP's position statement on emergency medicine. It makes several arguments in favor of allowing qualified family physicians to continue to practice in the emergency department, but it in no way, shape, or form implies that emergency medicine isn't a "true" specialty or that family physicians should have a "back door" to board certification in EM.
The AAFP is opposed to the use of specialty board certification as the sole or exclusionary criterion in determining medical staff membership.
You'd probably be a bit salty about it too...
Don't be too sure. There's more primary care in emergency medicine than there is emergency medicine in primary care.
I'm not going to argue the point or try to convince you that you're wrong. However, if we're going to discuss the AAFP's position, we should do so accurately.
Sorry, but I'm flagging that play.
Here's a link to the AAFP's position statement on emergency medicine. It makes several arguments in favor of allowing qualified family physicians to continue to practice in the emergency department, but it in no way, shape, or form implies that emergency medicine isn't a "true" specialty or that family physicians should have a "back door" to board certification in EM.
In a nutshell: "The AAFP is opposed to the use of specialty board certification as the sole or exclusionary criterion in determining medical staff membership."
Hmm, what constitutes a "qualified family physician"?
It's in the position statement, if you want to read it. I'm not interested in debating the AAFP's position. I was simply clarifying it.
But it isn't just about the money right?
I'm making popcorn. Who wants some?
I'm making popcorn. Who wants some?
All turf wars are about the money. Don't kid yourself.
What the paper does is support the AAPS position that FP EM fellowships are equivalent to BC/BE EM.
I'll repost my bit from the similar FM thread:
Imagine if the roles were reversed. Imagine if, in inner cities, owing to the lack of primary care access, groups of emergency physicians opened up small "family medicine clinics" in the back of their EDs to see patients from the community as primary care physicians. They argue that these patients will merely end up in the ED anyway and that their floor months during residency equips them to see these patients in this outpatient longitudinal setting. These physicians state that they are "close enough" to an FP to "make do" for these otherwise unserved patients. Imagine if medical students, bright and eager to enter family medicine, were being disauded from that vocation to enter EM with the promise that these clinics "were essentially the same" as "regular" FM. Then, the ABEM hobbles together a one year fellowship in outpatient medicine and a group demands that graduates of these fellowship be allowed to advertise as "board certified family practitioners".
You'd probably be a bit salty about it too...
- H
Yes, but the entire position paper (except that passage) speaks to increased patient safety and serving the needs of the community.
I'm making popcorn. Who wants some?
Imagine if medical students, bright and eager to enter family medicine, were being disauded from that vocation to enter EM
I'll be over in about, oh, 7 hours. Wait, which house am I coming to? May change the driving a little bit.
I like extra butter. And a little Natty Ice goes well with popcorn as well.
Sorry, but I'm flagging that play.
...but it in no way, shape, or form implies that emergency medicine isn't a "true" specialty or that family physicians should have a "back door" to board certification in EM.
Imagine? Dude, that's reality.
Imagine? Dude, that's reality.
Not at my school. I have been beaten over the head with FM. Even worse, they were thoroughly trying to get me to scramble FM and stay FM. They said it would be better for me in the long run.
Not at my school. I have been beaten over the head with FM.
Me too.
EM hopefuls are being told they can do EM by going into FM.
I can assure you that they're not hearing that from me.
I'm making popcorn. Who wants some?
Can I have mine with a shot of Jack Black?
Sure, I'll have some. Got any Sno Caps too?
I like extra butter. And a little Natty Ice goes well with popcorn as well.