Check this out!!! HVLA and blood pressure

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HolisticMed

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http://www.webmd.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/news/20070316/chiropractic-cuts-blood-pressure


This is landmark guys! A chiropractic study sponsored by an allopathic physician at university of Chicago. I am shocked webmd posted this on their site and I will be even more shocked if pressure from the drug companies dont push this article right off the website. Even though this is a pilot study, there is a larger clinical trial that is beginning.

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I think a study like this is fraught with ethical problems. With all of the robust evidence that exists for antihypertensives for reduction in BP and reduction in end organ damage, I don't see how you can enroll patients in a study like this and not offer proven therapy to reduce stroke or heart attack. Medications are almost as safe, (some might argue safer if you are talking about cervical HVLA in people with vascular disease), proven to be effective without question, and more cost effective if prescribed responsibly.

I don't see any value in this study. I'd expect larger numbers to show a smaller effect, as in the norm in all scientific studies. I think its difficult to establish standardized manipulative procedures. There is alot of variability between practitioners of manipulation and there is a level of skill involved which is not equally distributed.

The bottom line is that medication clearly works in this instance, and as an osteopathic physician it is your job is to use them. Of course, this type of procedure may be useful as an adjunct to medication. I just think it would be hard to demonstrate in long term randomized controlled trials, given the ethical problems with allowing large numbers of patients to go untreated with elevated blood pressure.
 
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Are there studies indicating further depression in BP when hypertensives are augmented with HVLA?
 
It's not an HVLA technique. The say it's called NUCCA. It looks like it is totally a Muscle energy technique that treats the Occiptal-Atlanto joint. So it's not the UCC, perse but a part of the UCC. Again it is not an HVLA technique.

Interesting none the less. I'd like to see study design, etc. Bigger is always better as well.
 
This is absolutely an HVLA technique!

NUCCA stands for National Upper Cervical Chiropractic Association.

There are some chiropractors who focus their entire practice on the concept of upper cervical high velocity adjusting. This concept goes back to B.J. Palmer, one of the founders of chiropractic. As far as I am concerned there are no osteopaths who place such heavy emphasis on adjustment of specifically the atlas. Many of these chiropractors will x-ray your cervical spine regardless of your presenting symptoms with the intention of determining if the atlas needs adjusting. They believe that impingement of the spinal cord/nerve roots at this level is more likely to occur than at other levels in the spinal cord and that the affects of misaligned vertebra can be devastating.

Many of these chiropractors will not adjust a single other vertebrae on the spine. Even by chiropractic standards, this is considered a fringe group.

Sure there are numerous studies in both chiropractic, osteopathy, hell even massage lowering blood pressure but this one is strikingly unique.

First of all they used digital measurements to actually show that the atlas in the true treatment group was realigned from these adjustments! The treatment group went from a 1 mm misalignment to .04 mm. While the sham group went from .6 to .5 !!!

Also, what this article doesnt tell you is that significant blood pressure drops were seen even after just one atlas adjustment.

Another interesting fact is that every single one of these adjustments was delivered by an 85 year old chiropractor!
 
According to this website it involves none of the following:

http://www.pietrekspinalcare.com/our_technique.html

If you actually read the article and do some research on the NUCCA technique, it states specifically: "NO POPPING, CRACKING, TWISTING of the NECK or BACK"

In addition if you actually read the WEBMD article it states:

"Because patients can't feel the technique, they were unable to tell which group they were in."

Now I don't know about you, but I've felt EVERY HVLA technique done on me and know that it's being done, I wouldn't be confused if it was or was not being done. So the article says the patients can't feel the technique...that need some explaining then.

If it is HVLA, how do you blind HVLA? How do you induce a "placebo" HVLA technique? Pop something else?

Again, playing devils advocate, just like any study without seeing the actual study, I'm sure there are people that can tear it apart. It may work, but far from it actually being the end all be all treatment for Hypertension.
 
Are there studies indicating further depression in BP when hypertensives are augmented with HVLA?

This would be a more reasonable study to design. Randomize a group of hypertensive patients to OMT or sham OMT for a predefined number of treatments, and then see if there is a difference in utilization of medication. The person performing the manipulation would have to be different than the treating physician managing the hypertension.

This type of study could conceivably be done within the confines of a family medicine residency clinic as a small pilot study, perhaps over 3 years under the guidance of an ambitious osteopathic family medicine resident.:idea:
 
Very cool. I have seen some pretty dramatic changes in people from adjusting the O/A and C1 on C2. You can really have some irritation to the vagus nerve in that area which can hamper people. Besides HTN, I've adjusted the OA on vent patients that were not able to wean and after the adjustment they weaned from the vent just fine.

The upper T-spine is also important for heart function and HTN. I've dropped peoples' BP by considerable amounts adjusting their T-spine. I have also converted a SVT that failed an Adenosine challenge in the ER by adjusting T3. Totally freaked the MD cardiologist out; after I explained it, he accepted it.
 
That's kind of interesting southpaw, cool stories. what'd you do to treat T3? HVLA or muscle energy?
 
Just FYI...

Reason OA HVLA isn't taught many places anymore = Evidence based medicine. It has been documented that OA HVLA techniques risk vertebral artery dissection. According to OMM faculty at DMU, it has never happened to a DO (too few doing manipulation?), but has happened to a couple chiropractors.

It's actually kind of nice to see that bad techniques are dropped as a result of EBM...
 
Sorry to go off on a slight tangent here, but has anyone noticed that CPR is essentially multiple HVLA thrusts to the anterior rib cage? Theoretically, one could say that CPR is a form of OMT (and a darn useful one! :laugh: )
 
Just FYI...

Reason OA HVLA isn't taught many places anymore = Evidence based medicine. It has been documented that OA HVLA techniques risk vertebral artery dissection. According to OMM faculty at DMU, it has never happened to a DO (too few doing manipulation?), but has happened to a couple chiropractors.

It's actually kind of nice to see that bad techniques are dropped as a result of EBM...
hmm.......we def learned it here....
 
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hmm.......we def learned it here....

it (OA HVLA) was in my curriculum, too. and now that I'm done with second year, I can say without a doubt: NO ONE (DO or otherwise) will be using HVLA on my c-spine again.

although, i must confess - other than the c-spine, i love it.
 
it (OA HVLA) was in my curriculum, too. and now that I'm done with second year, I can say without a doubt: NO ONE (DO or otherwise) will be using HVLA on my c-spine again.

although, i must confess - other than the c-spine, i love it.
In the past I might have agreed....but there's been several times over the past couple years where my neck was bothering me for weeks and all the self-cracking/stretching in the world wasn't making it go away......30 seconds of work by an OMM fellow and its gone...
 
In the past I might have agreed....but there's been several times over the past couple years where my neck was bothering me for weeks and all the self-cracking/stretching in the world wasn't making it go away......30 seconds of work by an OMM fellow and its gone...

FPR is suppose to replace HVLA of the cervical spine...................one of the teachers told me this when we were learning it and thought HVLA would eventually be phased out.
 
I'm not saying that I agree 100% that OA HVLA shouldn't be done, but the problem comes with those who are too aggressive in getting things to "go."

On the whole, I would say that there are probably far fewer DO's who are that aggressive to try to get a joint to go. We have lots of great techniques to fall back on if we can't get that articulation that so many people think is necessary for a correction. I have, however, heard from friends in chiropractic school that HVLA is their absolute bread & butter & are more likely to "go after" something that just won't pop.

I do think that it is a good idea to not teach that technique if you have worries that people will become aggressive w/ their techniques such that it puts a patient at risk. Chances are that these people who be aggressive w/ other techniques too, but w/ EBM being what it is today, I wouldn't be surprised to see OA HVLA lose favor in more places.
 
I'm not saying that I agree 100% that OA HVLA shouldn't be done, but the problem comes with those who are too aggressive in getting things to "go."

On the whole, I would say that there are probably far fewer DO's who are that aggressive to try to get a joint to go. We have lots of great techniques to fall back on if we can't get that articulation that so many people think is necessary for a correction. I have, however, heard from friends in chiropractic school that HVLA is their absolute bread & butter & are more likely to "go after" something that just won't pop.

I do think that it is a good idea to not teach that technique if you have worries that people will become aggressive w/ their techniques such that it puts a patient at risk. Chances are that these people who be aggressive w/ other techniques too, but w/ EBM being what it is today, I wouldn't be surprised to see OA HVLA lose favor in more places.

I disagree.

I think HVLA, particularly of the C-spine, is incredibly effective.

Anyone who decides to be a cowboy and "go after" a segment is getting themselves and their patients into trouble.

Should we stop teaching invasive surgical procedures for the fear that a surgical residenct will be too eager to cut or stick a needle in someone? Should we stop teaching the dosage of vasopressors for fear that an over zealous medicine resident will try to save the day with dobutamine?

Of course not.

OMT like anything else is a skill that must be mastered. If someone is going to be so irresponsible and simply turn it into a neck popping contest then they need to be removed from medical school. Removing a tried and tested OMT technique is not the answer.
 
HVLA of the C spine was the first real technique we learned, and I think doing this right off helped to get at least some people over their fear of HVLA. We were taught to do cervical HVLA only with the head in flexion to minimize strain to the vertebral a. and to do a vertebral a compression test before manipulating.

Our OMM professor showed several studies which concluded that the risk of cervical HVLA is relatively low, esp when compared with adverse outcomes from commonly accepted pharmaceutical treatments.

If anyone is interested in the citations let me know.
 
SOUNDMAN That's kind of interesting southpaw, cool stories. what'd you do to treat T3? HVLA or muscle energy?

I used a position and hold technique. Basically what happened was the cardiologist pushed the Adenosine, lady flatlined as she was supposed to, came back in sinus for about 5 seconds then went right back to SVT. Cardiologist gets pissed and goes to get more Adenosine while I slid my hand down the back and T3 was all jacked. I rotated her head indirect until I felt the segment get lose packed and just waited. The Cardiologist returned, looked all wierd at me, the segment released, and boom, sinus.

As far as OA HVLA, it's satisically safer than giving an NSAID for the pain. You should read the AAO's position paper, it has the evidence laid out. Of course do I do OA HVLA....nope but I do use NSAIDS all the time... So much for EBM.
 
Generally it is not sufficient to show an association between a treatment and a desired clinical outcome, it is also incumbent on researchers to suggest a mechanism that could explain a cause/effect relationship between the two.

Agree 100%

Anyone care to explain to me how spinal manipulation could affect blood pressure on a lasting basis?

I would like to hear this as well.

I have my own thoughts and physiology...but lets see what some of these folks can come up with. :)
 
Generally it is not sufficient to show an association between a treatment and a desired clinical outcome, it is also incumbent on researchers to suggest a mechanism that could explain a cause/effect relationship between the two.

Anyone care to explain to me how spinal manipulation could affect blood pressure on a lasting basis?


If no one could, would it matter?
 
If no one could, would it matter?

Absolutely it would matter. We are still physicians arent we?

Since when did OMT become a sixth sense experience as opposed to a true musculoskeletal treatment?

There is nothing spiritual about OMT. Its hard and true physical manipulation of the tissues with physiologic responses.

If you cant provide the physiology behind what is happening then there is cause for question about the validity of the techniques and the results.

OMT cannot fall into the "mechanism not full understood" category that some drugs do. We are already fighting an uphill battle in the medical community with OMT as it is...no need to turn it into voodoo and energy fields.

We cant rely on anectdotal evidence and outdated dogma alone. If we are to advance the knowledge and increase awareness and respect for osteopathy, particularly OMT, then we need to be scientific about things. Facts not fairy dust.
 
very, very well said, JP.
 
I disagree.

I think HVLA, particularly of the C-spine, is incredibly effective.

Anyone who decides to be a cowboy and "go after" a segment is getting themselves and their patients into trouble.

Should we stop teaching invasive surgical procedures for the fear that a surgical residenct will be too eager to cut or stick a needle in someone? Should we stop teaching the dosage of vasopressors for fear that an over zealous medicine resident will try to save the day with dobutamine?

Of course not.

OMT like anything else is a skill that must be mastered. If someone is going to be so irresponsible and simply turn it into a neck popping contest then they need to be removed from medical school. Removing a tried and tested OMT technique is not the answer.


I did not mean my post to seem like I do not think cervical HVLA is effective. I use it all the time & have it performed on me routinely. I was just trying to point out the danger that "cowboys" get into.

Good points though, JP.
 
I have a couple of ideas off the top of my head how OMT could affect HTN longterm.

One is ANS regulation. If one has dysfunction in an area that facilitating the ANS, it could cause HTN, or reflex HTN. If one has a facilitated seg at the OA that is affecting the vagus and stimulating it..causing a low heart rate, you could see reflex HTN, or vice versa.

Then there is energy demand, if the body is having to accommodate for massive amounts of dysfunction, it is not functioning efficiently at all. Therefore, you could have vasomotor changes to make up for this.

How about ribcage mechanics? If a portion of the ribcage is not functioning properly, would that not cause a vent/perfusion mismatch favoring perfusion, in which the body would then shunt blood away from the low vent area, causing a vasoconstriction in that area. If this stays long enough, could not this become facilitated as well, causing it to spread via interneurons and then a more systemic effect?

But that's just my non radomized, non blinded, non placebo controled mind wanderings...
 
JPHazelton

Should we stop teaching the dosage of vasopressors for fear that an over zealous medicine resident will try to save the day with dobutamine?


I think we ought to stop teaching the dopamine "renal dose". lol
 
I agree with Krazy in that cervical manipulation is different from OA manipulation or even UCC manipulation from what I understand. In other words I have no problem with cervical manipulation or UCC manipulation with HVLA, however I have heard of the dangers of HVLA manipulation of the OA, as we have discussed earlier.
 
Who the hell still teaches that load of crap?

I dont think its taught but it has to be mentioned as a good bit of the literature we read has it written that way.
 
I know when I was studying for boards the renal dose was mentioned in some board review books and pocketbooks, but then again, the board review books (and boards for that matter) are probably about 5-10 years behind. When i was student, I saw an ER doc use the renal dose to "diuresis someone".
 
I think I'll start renal dosing my O/A HV/LA...wonder what receptors I'll hit???
 
Just FYI...

Reason OA HVLA isn't taught many places anymore = Evidence based medicine. It has been documented that OA HVLA techniques risk vertebral artery dissection. According to OMM faculty at DMU, it has never happened to a DO (too few doing manipulation?), but has happened to a couple chiropractors.

It's actually kind of nice to see that bad techniques are dropped as a result of EBM...

Krazykritter,

The risk associated with cervical manipulation is minuscule, most studies have found rates on the order of 1 in several million. This study found 32 documented cases of death associated with cervical manipulation over a 70 year period. I presume many millions of cervical adjustments were performed in that time period. This make it one of the safest medical procedures there is.

That said, other studies have shown no significant difference in efficacy in the treatment of neck pain and headache comparing cervical manipulation and simple mobilization. Given that, there's no reason to assume even the tiny risk associated with cervical manipulation in those cases.

So, I agree with you in the end. :D

A good review on this.
 
Seriously, you need to pick a side. Either you're a physician-scientist, or you're in the holistic "natural healing" camp.

I fail to see the necessity of assigning oneself to such rigid, black and white categories. I used to think like this when I was a teenager, but after a little life experience, I realized the world is made up of shades of gray, not black and white realities. As nicely stated in the above post, it is possible for someone to use all the tools of science, while still remaining open to their individual experience and to what science can not yet explain.

Often times when people obviously believe a treatment is inefficacious I hear them state that "there is no evidence for that". This suggests to me that they have conveniently disconnected the fact that "no evidence" says nothing about whether a treatment works or doesn't work, only that it is an open question. In an ideal world, we would have controlled data for every possible intervention and situation. But in the real world, when confronted with a lack of evidence, medicine, be it allopathic, osteopathic, naturopathic or otherwise, will fall back on empirical experience and hypothetical reasoning for guidance.
 
"no evidence" says nothing about whether a treatment works or doesn't work, only that it is an open question.

How true! Yet, some people will never believe something works unless there is a double-blind, placebo-controlled study on it. That's so silly. To my knowledge, there's been no study comparing prophylactic amputation of the head as a cure for headaches, but I'll bet it would be much quicker than traditional remedies. The side effects, though, might suck a little. That, however, doesn't mean that someone should go out and try it. Alas, there just won't be a study for every situation.
 
Krazykritter,

The risk associated with cervical manipulation is minuscule, most studies have found rates on the order of 1 in several million. This study found 32 documented cases of death associated with cervical manipulation over a 70 year period. I presume many millions of cervical adjustments were performed in that time period. This make it one of the safest medical procedures there is.

That said, other studies have shown no significant difference in efficacy in the treatment of neck pain and headache comparing cervical manipulation and simple mobilization. Given that, there's no reason to assume even the tiny risk associated with cervical manipulation in those cases.

So, I agree with you in the end. :D

A good review on this.


Redbeard,

If you look in other posts I've made & in the one you quoted, I did not say that cervical manipulation was dangerous. I specifically said that HVLA of the Occipto-atlantal joint was the bad actor. Hell, I will pop & crack anyone w/out contraindications if that's what they want, but I always have a low threshold for moving on to alternate techniques...hence I'm not a "cowboy" that goes after each segment (including the OA) just to get the articulations.

I am actually of the mindset that the articulations (in some patients) are half of the treatment. Patients who go to chiropractors or DO's who do a lot of HVLA plain EXPECT to hear those noises which, I believe, contributes significantly to the placebo effect of manipulative medicine. But I guess that's not the topic of this thread although I think it would be an interesting research project to do...Patient Reported Efficacy in Articulatory vs. Non-articulatory Techniques. Anyone feel free to take my idea b/c OMM research isn't my bag. Not to mention I fear that the results would label me a blasphemer. :laugh:
 
The first time one of your patients says, "But doctor, I don't want to take medication for my high blood pressure; I'd rather use these herbs I read about on the internet" that's when you'll make your choice.

I still don't see the choice that must be made - why can't the herbs/diet/OMM be tried and if the patient doesn't respond, then initiate pharm treatment? Provided the situation is not acute, why must using one tool preclude the use of the other?

I would also be curious if your accepting attitude of non-evidence based treatments extended to pharmaceuticals. Should we approve prescription medications based on small case series, and anecdotal claims of efficacy? Yeah, I didn't think so.

A treatment with greater risk or which requires greater resources necessitates a higher standard of evidence than a relatively safe and inexpensive treatment. Thus, I would be more comfortable suggesting something like OMM which may or may not work, but in any case is very unlikely to cause any harm, than a pharmaceutical which is unproven and could pose significant risk. Once again, it's not a black and white issue.

I actually have more problem with some of this stuff from a reimbursement angle - is the benefit derived from a treatment like OMM worth the money which must be paid to the physician for performing it? Or could a less trained practitioner whose time is worth much less than a physician's do essentially the same thing? Or even the same goal accomplished with a cheap med?

The whole 'all points-of-view are okay with me' thing rarely lasts very long once people hit clinical work. Not trying to be condescending, just pointing out the experience we had in my class.

You may very well be right. I'm sure my views on many things will change during the clinical years.
 
I would also be curious if your accepting attitude of non-evidence based treatments extended to pharmaceuticals... Should we approve prescription medications based on small case series, and anecdotal claims of efficacy.

My accepting attitude does, and it happens all the time when doctors prescribe off label. Sure, a lot of uses have been studied but a lot of them haven't. I was talking to my own doctor during my last visit about it, and he mentioned several things that he will prescribe simply because they have worked in the past-- not because there is any real evidence or any clinical studies behind it.

My desire is to do what it takes to get my patient well. If it involves a little experimentation with alternative methods, since the "evidence-based" things are either not working or the patient doesn't want to try them, then I need to think about them as an adjunct to the current treatment.
 
Every year chiropractors take a trip to panama and adjust thousands of people a day. People in Panama walk several miles... wait hours in line... to get a few second adjustment.

I am not a chiropractor, but the I just thought you guys might like to see this because I'm sure very few allopathic or even osteopathic students have a real concept of what straight chiropractic is really about. I'm sure this will be a real eye opener for many osteopathic students about where osteopathic/chiropractic medicine came from and even more suprised that those ideas still live on through through thousands of "straight" chiropractors today.

http://www.planetc1.com/m/asx/panama250k.asx
 
Every year chiropractors take a trip to panama and adjust thousands of people a day. People in Panama walk several miles... wait hours in line... to get a few second adjustment.

I am not a chiropractor, but the I just thought you guys might like to see this because I'm sure very few allopathic or even osteopathic students have a real concept of what straight chiropractic is really about. I'm sure this will be a real eye opener for many osteopathic students about where osteopathic/chiropractic medicine came from and even more suprised that those ideas still live on through through thousands of "straight" chiropractors today.

http://www.planetc1.com/m/asx/panama250k.asx
Cool vid. Gotta love the live U2 in the background...
 
Patients who go to chiropractors or DO's who do a lot of HVLA plain EXPECT to hear those noises which, I believe, contributes significantly to the placebo effect of manipulative medicine...I think it would be an interesting research project to do...Patient Reported Efficacy in Articulatory vs. Non-articulatory Techniques.

There may be something to this.

Related side note: During one of our OMM practicals, a classmate was assigned HVLA of rib one in the seated position. He set the patient up and performed the thrust, when he did it he caused his own knuckle to crack. Both the patient and examiner said "wow, you got it to go!" :laugh:
 
I actually have more problem with some of this stuff from a reimbursement angle - is the benefit derived from a treatment like OMM worth the money which must be paid to the physician for performing it? Or could a less trained practitioner whose time is worth much less than a physician's do essentially the same thing? Or even the same goal accomplished with a cheap med?
.

I think this is an interesting point. I've thought about this. If a specific OMT treatment was proven to definitively reduce length of stay in a hospital, let's say rib raising for COPD exacerbations, then I'm quite certain hospitals would find a way to train less qualified (less expensive) individuals, such as RT's, to routinely carry out the procedure.

The classic paradox is that if OMT works, then we should train everyone to do it. Of course, patient care is more complicated than that. OMT needs to be utilized in individualized patients with specific ailments by adequately trained physicians. Just like any other medical procedure, like a joint injection or an epidural. Which is why, IMO, you shouldn't provide shotgun OMT to every patient for every condition under the sun. Nor should you disregard it for every patient, especially those with back pain.

I've rambled a bit, but the bottom line: less qualified healthcare workers shouldn't provide OMT, its a medical procedure, but that wouldn't necessarily preclude hospitals from trying to find a way to do it.


I think the value of OMM to a patient, relative to a medication, is very dependent on the skill of the practitioner and the preference of the patient. If a patient prefers to utilize OMM over a medication, as many do, then you should respect their autonomy, as long as the procedure is safe and appropriate.

As far as healthcare spending goes, OMT isn't even a drop in the bucket. If you think healthcare spending on OMT is a big problem, wait til you do a Hem/Onc rotation. Or even cardiology for that matter.
 
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