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Hi. I am considering going into medicine and I just wanted to know what are your thoughts about the negative aspects of medicine??
Negative aspects of Medicine
- Thread starter whateva07
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I really do love just about everything about medicine. I guess one thing I can think of off the top of my head is the attitude of many that you should live and breathe medicine. It is a very important part of my life, but not THE MOST important. Some people seem to believe that if you don't masturbate to a centerfold in the most recent issue of JAMA that maybe you don't belong in medicine. That pompous attitude is a negative to me. If you are intelligent and can imagine yourself desiring to do what's best for your patients . . . then you will enjoy being a doctor. Oh yeah, there is a lot of hard work but your outside life will be ok too. The satisfaction I get from my job enriches the rest of my life. Good luck with your decision! Get a subscription to Playboy!
[edit] Saw you are a girl . . . make that Playgirl . . . actually skip that comment altogether.
[edit] Saw you are a girl . . . make that Playgirl . . . actually skip that comment altogether.
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The other doctors you work with...lol...but seriously...
I would commit a hate crime against myself if I had to work with some of the people I see on these boards.
I would commit a hate crime against myself if I had to work with some of the people I see on these boards.
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The expectation that you are perfect and a miracle worker. Despite discussions of possible complications, patients are always suprised when they have one and in many cases, they are quick to blame the physician for it even when it may be due to patient factors.
There's nothing negative about medicine!!! Only negative people! No matter what if you keep a positive outlook then it'll all come up roses! 😍 Anyone who says otherwise is lying to you but that doesn't mean they're not also good people with caring hearts! I love everyone! Everyone!!
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Well, social ineptitude is pervasive among our peers. Besides that, medicine is the best profession IMHO.
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Some of you got it all wrong about the attitude of docs. There's a reason why many docs are perceived as arrogant. It comes from having gone through so much that you come out with an attitude. The amount of knowledge you have makes you come across as a "know-it-all". But we are force fed to be humble, even to fake it to appease others.
A lot of med students bottle it up so not to rock the boat. But once they get past the grading and feigning modesty to get good grades on rotations then their true colors show. Which is why you see so many residents in their last year and attendings carry themselves with huge entitlement attitudes. They no longer have to pretend to appease others. They've made it. Kind of like the guys who swore all along in their personal statements and interviews they were gonna go back and practice in the inner city to help the underpriviledged. Yeah right, as soon as they gets offers from practices in awesome locales they ditch that idea and never see the inner city again unless they're driving through it on the way to the country club.
I'd venture to say most docs are more arrogant than they let on. Just look back to the 80s and before when docs ruled the hospital and were beyond reproach. Now you piss off a orderly who didn't even graduate high school and you can be written up and maybe even face other consequences. They've tied doctor's hands so they're at the same level as any other hospital employee. Which is just one of the reasons docs have lost their prestige.
Now I know somebody is gonna claim they know this or that truly humble doc. Good for you. I didn't say every single doc was like that. Some are humble. But there's nothing wrong with arrogance as long as you can back it up.
A lot of med students bottle it up so not to rock the boat. But once they get past the grading and feigning modesty to get good grades on rotations then their true colors show. Which is why you see so many residents in their last year and attendings carry themselves with huge entitlement attitudes. They no longer have to pretend to appease others. They've made it. Kind of like the guys who swore all along in their personal statements and interviews they were gonna go back and practice in the inner city to help the underpriviledged. Yeah right, as soon as they gets offers from practices in awesome locales they ditch that idea and never see the inner city again unless they're driving through it on the way to the country club.
I'd venture to say most docs are more arrogant than they let on. Just look back to the 80s and before when docs ruled the hospital and were beyond reproach. Now you piss off a orderly who didn't even graduate high school and you can be written up and maybe even face other consequences. They've tied doctor's hands so they're at the same level as any other hospital employee. Which is just one of the reasons docs have lost their prestige.
Now I know somebody is gonna claim they know this or that truly humble doc. Good for you. I didn't say every single doc was like that. Some are humble. But there's nothing wrong with arrogance as long as you can back it up.
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You will find that residency training has little to no bureaucracy at all! It's quite wonderful!! As far as socially inept peers, that someone else mentioned, I find that some people may be delightfully quirky but they are all very very great people!! You will love them all, each and every one! Good luck!
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well this is the most profound drawback.. I mean people die.. bad stuff happens.. to everyone.. so... we cannot save everyone despite the belief that we can..
but other than the quite insightful one above.. is
nurses suck, exams suck, your peers suck because they always are backstabbing you, licensing process sucks. getting ppd twice a year sucks, loan repayment and the interest sucks huge, everyone in the hospital has a ****ing agenda.... hep c sucks if your patient has it and is bleeding all over you.. nurses suck, the smell of wards sucks, the fact that im greying so young sucks, the fact that i HAVE to work some weekends sucks,and not get paid.. the fact that I HAVE To work at night and not get paid a differential sucks,, and mostly everyone around is ****ing unpleasant.. You have to really LOVE medicine to love your job because its ****ing hard...
D
deleted87716
Another downside is that nobody outside of medicine understands just how hard it can be. Don't expect any sympathy from non-medical people.
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democrats, bureaucrats, and socialists
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I hate the fact that the harder you work, and the more you take time to talk with your patients, the more you are called on to account for the screwup of the patient and staff.
The nurse doubled the dose by accident: What are you going to do about it doctor?
The pharmacy didn't send up the antibiotics you ordered: Why didn't you know that doctor?
My last surgeon did an unnecessary operation: Why is that doctor?
The radiologist didn't notice my huge AAA last year: What should I do doctor?
You fixed my shoulder and I didn't go to PT as orderd, now I have pain again: Why didn't your operation work, doctor?
It's sad that in health care, as in the rest of the world, the harder you work, the more you get crapped on. You will run across a lot of docs who avoid talkig to patients and families at all costs, do the absolute minimum to get the patient to an adequate dispo, and chart just enough to CYA. These people tend to be relatively happy and upbeat. But the docs who are down and dirty, spend late nights in the hospital, explain the diagnosis and options fully, listen to the their patients complain and cry . . . these are the people who end up with multiple divorces, kids who hate them, and emotional train wrecks.
The nurse doubled the dose by accident: What are you going to do about it doctor?
The pharmacy didn't send up the antibiotics you ordered: Why didn't you know that doctor?
My last surgeon did an unnecessary operation: Why is that doctor?
The radiologist didn't notice my huge AAA last year: What should I do doctor?
You fixed my shoulder and I didn't go to PT as orderd, now I have pain again: Why didn't your operation work, doctor?
It's sad that in health care, as in the rest of the world, the harder you work, the more you get crapped on. You will run across a lot of docs who avoid talkig to patients and families at all costs, do the absolute minimum to get the patient to an adequate dispo, and chart just enough to CYA. These people tend to be relatively happy and upbeat. But the docs who are down and dirty, spend late nights in the hospital, explain the diagnosis and options fully, listen to the their patients complain and cry . . . these are the people who end up with multiple divorces, kids who hate them, and emotional train wrecks.
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wow thanks for the info. It sounds like a lot to deal with, but I dont care I still want to be a doc!🙂 I might not know a lot of this because I'm not even close to being where u guys are, but I still believe the good will outweigh all the negative aspects.
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The problem with medicine is the good always goes with the bad.
For example: Patients. Awesome when you help a cool person feel better or cure their disease. Absolutely tear out your hair frustrating when you get some slimeball that doesn't take your advice and complains when he gets sicker.
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there is a sucka born every minute
hey medicine needs suckers like me with our naive optimism.😉
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Optimism yes, naivety, no. That's how they all get away with it in the first place.
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No, actually it doesn't. It needs people who are smart enough to learn the material, savy enough to apply it to real situations, and strong enough to deal with (and struggle against) the system. Premeds have vastly overstated the importance of optimism and compassion. Patients need doctors who are their advocates, not their best friends or a shoulder to cry on.
The reality is that we spend maybe five minutes a day with our sickest inpatients, but many hours discussing their cases and getting them what they need. Nurses, social workers, and other ancillary staff make a far greater personal impact on patients than we do. Our expertise is in managing medical issues, not social or emotional issues. Forget this at your peril.
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Great summation!
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they sure as hell do.. and the insurance cos, the hospital ceos and the politicians will all be very wealthy. I dont expect you to understand this.. but if you do end up going forward with medical school and graduate you will know.. believe me yo uwill know..
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I don't understand.
You wanted honest responses and you got them. And yet, you've decided not to listen to them, or even think them over?
I mean, people basically said - it's hard, dirty, sometimes thankless work. And your response is "I still believe the good will outweight all the negative aspects." Did you even read carefully over what everyone said?
It really is hard work. And while I'm not saying that NOBODY should go into medicine anymore, I think that the better informed you are before you start, the better off you are. I wish I had gotten such frank, detailed responses from people like Tired, johankriek, Kimberli Cox and KentW before starting med school.
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actually did read what ppl wrote but I'm entitled to formulate my own opinion from it too...and exactly u were in my spot once.
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relax guys..... of course i wont be naive when ive been through it all. Isnt just abt everyone who enters medicine have some naivety and optimism. Thats all I meant. Lol I didnt mean to start some heated debate..whew.
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I'm sorry if it came across as condescending, or if it seemed like I was saying that you shouldn't have your own opinion. It just seemed like - they're saying some pretty heavy stuff, and it definitely would have made me think twice (or more) about going into medicine.
Sorry if I sound morose - it was a long day.
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Parts of every job suck. Even a pro athlete who works about half the year for a couple of hours a day and makes millions of dollars and gets all kinds of attention will say that there are negative aspects of their job. The key is to find a job that you enjoy and that stimulates you. If you do, then the negative aspects become less important. Unfortunately many people discover this at a later stage of their career (when for many it is too late or impractical to change careers), and oftentimes it is because they are delusional about what the field actually entails or about their actual interests.
Many people go into medicine "knowing" that that was what they always wanted to do and it is where their talents lie, when in actuality it was the only career they ever actually considered. This works out for some, but not all.
The problem with every career (well, most) these days is that everyone is being pushed to do more with less time and fewer resources. Those in supervisory roles are less interest in the well being of their workers, despite that fact that they pay MORE lip service to it than they used to and they couch everything in buzzwords like "teamwork" and "efficiency" and "synergy." And they refer to things like "the global economy" and talk about how everything they do is for their clients (or patients, if you're in medicine) at the same time as they cut the vital resources and siphon profits. That, to me, is the negative part of medicine but it's true for every part of our society, it seems. "Doing your job well" has become shockingly less important to far too many people.
Many people go into medicine "knowing" that that was what they always wanted to do and it is where their talents lie, when in actuality it was the only career they ever actually considered. This works out for some, but not all.
The problem with every career (well, most) these days is that everyone is being pushed to do more with less time and fewer resources. Those in supervisory roles are less interest in the well being of their workers, despite that fact that they pay MORE lip service to it than they used to and they couch everything in buzzwords like "teamwork" and "efficiency" and "synergy." And they refer to things like "the global economy" and talk about how everything they do is for their clients (or patients, if you're in medicine) at the same time as they cut the vital resources and siphon profits. That, to me, is the negative part of medicine but it's true for every part of our society, it seems. "Doing your job well" has become shockingly less important to far too many people.
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I've been thinking about responding here for a few days. I tend to be pretty cynical so I was avoiding it. But I think I can add to some of the other points that other posters have brought up.
Two caveats: #1 I am cynical so some rosy people might not share my take. By the same token I see the rosy people get eaten alive on a regular basis. #2 I'm in Emergency Medicine and the ED tends to be the flashpoint for everything that's wrong with medicine. The very fact that EDs are as busy as we are is a symptom of the failure of the system.
Medicine is a business and even when you would really like to do right by a patient sometimes you can't. Whatever specialty you are you will need other docs to consult and if your patient is poor/uninsured it's difficult to get docs to do what needs doing. For example, lets say you're a surgeon and you have a patient who needs a chole. If they are broke you may be screwed. Even if you're willing to comp them your services you may not be able to get anesthesia or the hospital to deal with them. In the private practice world these situations are common and draining.
While medicine is a business it's a uniquely bad business in that other entities determine the price you can charge for your efforts. CMS and insurers will tell you what you're worth. The really insidious thing about this is that you will likely reach a point in your life where you depend on making a set amount of money. That means that when your pay gets cut by one (or both) of these entities you will have to take it or work harder to keep even. This is why primary care docs are trying to see 6 patients per hours which no one thinks is a good idea.
Patients have unreasonable expectations of medicine, hospitals, doctors and the system in general. This is America and there should be a pill for every ill. They will not lose weight, eat better, quit smoking or stop drinking but when these choices catch up to them they are happy to blame you for not being able to fix them.
Patients have no concept of risk. You can tell them 'till you're blue in the face that X, Y and Z are risks and may happen to them but they will not understand. Every chronic back pain patient who had a surgery and still has pain had a "botched" surgery as far as they are concerned. Just ask them, they'll keep telling you and you'll never get them to shut up.
Patients have no idea if they got good care or not. They just don't. They will decide they got bad care, and report this to everyone they know and their lawyer, for silly things like their lunch tray was late or the nurse was busy when they wanted a glass of water.
Malpractice and it's demon spawn defensive medicine are bad. They drain the life force out of you and slowly grind you down day after day.
Friends, nurses, acquaintances and so on will want you to write them scripts, sign off on their kid's school physicals, etc. You want to help them but you are under intense regulatory, local and liability pressure to refuse. If you refuse you are a jerk in their eyes because they don't appreciate the real factors and think you are refusing because you don't want to do it for free.
There is a lot of work in medicine. And most of it can't be put off until tomorrow like at an office job. If you're on call and you get 20 admissions you just have to keep going 'til they're all seen. If you're going for 36 hours that's just how it is. One of the things that doesn't get mentioned when people argue about limiting resident work hours is that there is no limit on attending work hours. You work until the work is done.
You watch bad things happen to good people. Patients die. Families grieve. You can't stop it. If you're lucky and good you may help enough people to make up for that and all the rest. If you go into medicine you're betting that you will be that lucky and good.
Two caveats: #1 I am cynical so some rosy people might not share my take. By the same token I see the rosy people get eaten alive on a regular basis. #2 I'm in Emergency Medicine and the ED tends to be the flashpoint for everything that's wrong with medicine. The very fact that EDs are as busy as we are is a symptom of the failure of the system.
Medicine is a business and even when you would really like to do right by a patient sometimes you can't. Whatever specialty you are you will need other docs to consult and if your patient is poor/uninsured it's difficult to get docs to do what needs doing. For example, lets say you're a surgeon and you have a patient who needs a chole. If they are broke you may be screwed. Even if you're willing to comp them your services you may not be able to get anesthesia or the hospital to deal with them. In the private practice world these situations are common and draining.
While medicine is a business it's a uniquely bad business in that other entities determine the price you can charge for your efforts. CMS and insurers will tell you what you're worth. The really insidious thing about this is that you will likely reach a point in your life where you depend on making a set amount of money. That means that when your pay gets cut by one (or both) of these entities you will have to take it or work harder to keep even. This is why primary care docs are trying to see 6 patients per hours which no one thinks is a good idea.
Patients have unreasonable expectations of medicine, hospitals, doctors and the system in general. This is America and there should be a pill for every ill. They will not lose weight, eat better, quit smoking or stop drinking but when these choices catch up to them they are happy to blame you for not being able to fix them.
Patients have no concept of risk. You can tell them 'till you're blue in the face that X, Y and Z are risks and may happen to them but they will not understand. Every chronic back pain patient who had a surgery and still has pain had a "botched" surgery as far as they are concerned. Just ask them, they'll keep telling you and you'll never get them to shut up.
Patients have no idea if they got good care or not. They just don't. They will decide they got bad care, and report this to everyone they know and their lawyer, for silly things like their lunch tray was late or the nurse was busy when they wanted a glass of water.
Malpractice and it's demon spawn defensive medicine are bad. They drain the life force out of you and slowly grind you down day after day.
Friends, nurses, acquaintances and so on will want you to write them scripts, sign off on their kid's school physicals, etc. You want to help them but you are under intense regulatory, local and liability pressure to refuse. If you refuse you are a jerk in their eyes because they don't appreciate the real factors and think you are refusing because you don't want to do it for free.
There is a lot of work in medicine. And most of it can't be put off until tomorrow like at an office job. If you're on call and you get 20 admissions you just have to keep going 'til they're all seen. If you're going for 36 hours that's just how it is. One of the things that doesn't get mentioned when people argue about limiting resident work hours is that there is no limit on attending work hours. You work until the work is done.
You watch bad things happen to good people. Patients die. Families grieve. You can't stop it. If you're lucky and good you may help enough people to make up for that and all the rest. If you go into medicine you're betting that you will be that lucky and good.
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On the other hand, you have a direct effect on people's lives and make a difference every day. The same cannot be said for other professions.
Everything eventually dies; people die, pets die, planets die, stars die and solar systems collapse upon themselves. There is nothing we can do about that, but we certainly can take pride in making a positive difference when it is easier to make things worse. Optimistic nihilism is what makes me happy to wake up every morning.
Everything eventually dies; people die, pets die, planets die, stars die and solar systems collapse upon themselves. There is nothing we can do about that, but we certainly can take pride in making a positive difference when it is easier to make things worse. Optimistic nihilism is what makes me happy to wake up every morning.
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Ungrateful and clueless patients and their families.
Had a 74yo LOL come in last night delirious out of her mind with a rectal temp of 105.5. After the head-to-toe exam, normal CBC, pretty normal cath UA, normal CXR, blood cultures drawn, pretty unremarkable chemistries, empiric antibiotics, antipyretics AND a cooling blanket, her temp came down to 102.1 and she was sitting up in bed with cleared sensorium demanding her family take her to another hospital because she doesn't LIKE our hospital. After admitting her to the hospitalist, of course, because she's a LOL with a high fever and we don't have a source yet. Family wants to know exactly WHY is she septic...??duh, I dunno yet. She had already been to a doc-in-the-box earlier in the day and family was willing to take her by private vehicle to yet another hospital (the one she liked) for a third go-round. Would not listen to reason. Fine, let her go, AMA, which they hemmed and hawed and refused to sign.
After that drama on to the next patient....
I love my job....😀
Had a 74yo LOL come in last night delirious out of her mind with a rectal temp of 105.5. After the head-to-toe exam, normal CBC, pretty normal cath UA, normal CXR, blood cultures drawn, pretty unremarkable chemistries, empiric antibiotics, antipyretics AND a cooling blanket, her temp came down to 102.1 and she was sitting up in bed with cleared sensorium demanding her family take her to another hospital because she doesn't LIKE our hospital. After admitting her to the hospitalist, of course, because she's a LOL with a high fever and we don't have a source yet. Family wants to know exactly WHY is she septic...??duh, I dunno yet. She had already been to a doc-in-the-box earlier in the day and family was willing to take her by private vehicle to yet another hospital (the one she liked) for a third go-round. Would not listen to reason. Fine, let her go, AMA, which they hemmed and hawed and refused to sign.
After that drama on to the next patient....
I love my job....😀
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Medicine reminds us of our mortality and limitations, BUT also our shared humanity.
Yes, patients die. We can only do our best with the limited tools/knowledge that we have to treat and possibly cure our patients.
However, we also bear witness to suffering and death and can do much to palliate symptoms and ease suffering. To me, it is very rewarding to give adequate analgesia to a cancer patient with chemotherapy-resistant disease...to directly talk to a family about their ICU patient loved one's prognosis and help them form a plan for goals of care.
I don't think anyone is "lucky" enough to make up for the reality of death. Granted, I'm a young doc, but I cope by accepting death when my team has exhausted all its curative resources. ...and I have a good cry now and then. 😳)
Now -- the business side of medicine just p****s me off.
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The current "business" of medicine, socialized, pisses me off. Free market? Love it. Providing the best services to the most people for the best price. You can't beat that, and everyone comes out ahead.
Want less headaches? Decrease gov'nt involvement in medicine.
Want less headaches? Decrease gov'nt involvement in medicine.
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8744
No. No you don't. The majority of the codes, for example, that I have been involved in for at least the past month have been some demented, stroked out, multiply comorbid nursing home space-occupying masses who either died in the ED, died later in the ICU, or were "saved" to return to the nursing home to lay in urine and feces until the next time.
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Yes, you actually do but you do not realize it because you are in the middle of the action and do not have the time to stand back and see how much you impact people's lives. I am not talking about hero-type procedures but life-impacting decisions that alter the course of people's consciousness.
Saving a life is a significant way to affect a life, but it is simply the most obvious or 'sexy' way. You are so deep in the jungle that you probably forget what it feels like to be a patient because even minute (and seemingly routine) decisions have a lasting impression when it comes to the patient and their health.
Of course, the 'goobers' and 'crazies' do not count but that is why I am not going into Geriatrics or Psych.
Saving a life is a significant way to affect a life, but it is simply the most obvious or 'sexy' way. You are so deep in the jungle that you probably forget what it feels like to be a patient because even minute (and seemingly routine) decisions have a lasting impression when it comes to the patient and their health.
Of course, the 'goobers' and 'crazies' do not count but that is why I am not going into Geriatrics or Psych.
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Please, do you mind not posting here until you can say something that's marginally useful?
Yeah, me too! 🙄
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Yes Massa! Want me to go get-ya some wawa Massa? How abouts me draw ya a nice warm bath Massa?
Troll
Troll
8
8744
Unless you decide on Pediatrics, most of your patients are going to be the elderly, many of them are going to be demented, and you'd better start brushing up on your geriatrics.
Looking at my "sticker sheet" from last night, here are the ages of the patients I saw:
56, 75, 72, 12, 38, 87, 92, 88, 3, 21, 26, 67, 78, 78, 80, 82
8
8744
We do even less of that than saving lives. Man. You are setting yourself up for a huge disappointment.
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Like I said, you don't see it because you are in it.
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Your view and your patients are influened by your EM specialty and EM experience. It does not make your view right or wrong, just 'your view'.
B
Blade28
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Well, the ones in the ICU generally are and, as we are on the code team for the hospital, almost every code I go to is for somebody who later dies in the ICU. I know because I follow up.
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8744
Whoa. I have also done two years of off-service rotations, everything from general surgery to neurology and, with the exception of OB/Gyn, the majority of my patients have been elderly. I actually see more young patients in the ED than I did on one of my many medicine or surgery rotations.
B
Blade28
Damn that sucks.
Here, yes, many of the ICU (especially the MICU) codes don't go well. The SICU and Burn ICU codes don't get announced overhead here, as there's always a resident available, and some of those actually make it.
Ditto with some of the codes on the floor - some don't obviously, but I usually have some hope. Unless they're an old, sickly vasculopath or liver transplant patient. 🙂
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Sounds like you live in Florida.
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i had naive optimism once too....now i'm in my late 20's, all my friends have decent jobs and go on wonderful vacations during the summer or awesome road trips on the weekends and what am i doing? studying for Step 2 and filling out ERAS apps while racking up an enormous amount of debt. what will i be doing next year? working my butt off at "80 hours" a week, getting paid less than a unionized janitor or garbage man, and having my son raised by a nanny.
oh but i'm not bitter....it's all for the better-ment of humanity, right?
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I am sure the average American making $20k-30k per year is crying a river for you.
Get over yourself. Unlike you, some of us worked in the real world of business before med school and it is a black hole compared to the games we play on the road to a financially secure and respected profession.
Get over yourself. Unlike you, some of us worked in the real world of business before med school and it is a black hole compared to the games we play on the road to a financially secure and respected profession.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2006
- Messages
- 920
- Reaction score
- 1
Hey dude,
You really should be making statements like this after you graduate and have some clinical years behind you.. YOu have some idea of what is ahead but you cannot possibly know how brutally against physicians the system is until you are there and getting the brunt end of it.. so you should at the end of your statements say.. I have no idea what im saying but im saying it anyway.. which is your perogative and i will never try to stop you from speaking your mind.. and a native of this country who has acommand of the english language and is halfway savvy can command six figures easily..
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 2,084
- Reaction score
- 10
Actually, it depends on the part of Florida. Most of our ED patients are seeking drugs or refills on their blood pressure medicine because it is "too expensive," Our average ED patient is probably younger than most other places in Miami.
