Seattle Hospital Fires all its Anesthesiologists

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The hospital is going to take a $2 million hit by having no surgical revenue until they find temps....Instead they should have negotiated fairly with the anesthesiologists. Good luck getting 20 new anesthesiologists.
 
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Yeah ... that's the big downside of being an interchangeable part.

Ultimately, the patients and surgeons don't care if you leave. The hospital could take every anesthesiologist on staff behind the cafeteria dumpsters and shoot them in the back of the head. Assuming they had though ahead a few days and called a locums agency ... no one would ever notice.
 
nobody is indispensable
 
The CEO will be in for a rude awakening when he sees how much locums is going to cost him until the group is back up to full staff. Not to mention how much they lose in surgical costs as cases go elsewhere until the hospital is full staff. 2 million will seem like chump change.
 
militarymd said:
This is our biz....you get underbid...you're out. You provide poor service..you're out..
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this is not a great time to go into anesthesia.. Business wise.. controlled too much.. Still a fun specialty to practice. but the business dynamics of it and the practice climate is the pits.
 
The CEO may seem like the bad guy to some of you but I think many anesthesiologists get caught up in their own self worth and can be a real PITA to deal with. It amazes me how some anesthesiologists can be so damn hard to work with and thin skinned.

With that being said, many CEO's are impossible to deal with as well.
 
Noyac said:
The CEO will be in for a rude awakening when he sees how much locums is going to cost him until the group is back up to full staff. Not to mention how much they lose in surgical costs as cases go elsewhere until the hospital is full staff. 2 million will seem like chump change.
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i doubt it will happen the way you envision it.

The "group" got fired...not individual doctors.

So what it means is that the individual doctors can continue to provide services....and any other joe blow out there who wants to come and do anesthesia is also allowed.

UNLESS ALL of the members of the group pack up and leave, the CEO just SAVED a lot of money.

I'll willing to bet a lot of money that the majority of the "group" members remained behind and continue to provide coverage.....
 
militarymd said:
i doubt it will happen the way you envision it.

The "group" got fired...not individual doctors.

So what it means is that the individual doctors can continue to provide services....and any other joe blow out there who wants to come and do anesthesia is also allowed.

UNLESS ALL of the members of the group pack up and leave, the CEO just SAVED a lot of money.

I'll willing to bet a lot of money that the majority of the "group" members remained behind and continue to provide coverage.....
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YOu may be right but as I read it only 3 returned and possibly a new group will move in but will they be able to replace 17 docs right away? It will be hard to get joe blow in without paying for services, travel, boarding, etc. But Seattle is a big town and there may be enough joe blows around to pick up the slack right away. Its a gamble either way. But I doubt that there will be any real winners.
 
Noyac said:
YOu may be right but as I read it only 3 returned and possibly a new group will move in but will they be able to replace 17 docs right away? It will be hard to get joe blow in without paying for services, travel, boarding, etc. But Seattle is a big town and there may be enough joe blows around to pick up the slack right away. Its a gamble either way. But I doubt that there will be any real winners.
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a "new" group that includes 3 of the old anesthesiologists....that doesn't mean the other 17 cannot continue to provide services...and I'm willing to bet that the 17 WILL continue to provide services (until they are replaced) because they have families to feed.

You know why I know? because this is what my mentor does for a living.

The new group will have offered contracts to MOST of the old docs...Some will have been left off the list because they are considered the trouble makers...head of the snake if you will.

There is a WINNER...the CEO....Those who stayed just lost ALL face....but they have families to feed.

Lesson to be learned for the up and coming....live below your means....
 
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Noyac said:
What do you mean "does for a living"?
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he'll be the guy who comes in and underbids you....

the guy who will offer contracts to 16 of the 20 md's.....

The guy who comes in when a rfp goes out....

that's how I got my job.
 
How would you like to be one of the new incoming doctors? I think I'd feel a little like one of Henry VIII's later wives.
 
militarymd said:
Lesson to be learned for the up and coming....live below your means....
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Could not agree more.

Especially since I'm already anticipating that starting salaries (and perhaps salaries in general for docs) are going to decline (perhaps substantially) over the next several years.

Not necessarily happy about it, but gotta anticipate it and prepare for it.
 
Wow- what a d!ckhead of a CEO to tell the reporter the anesthesiologists' salary. Wonder how he'd feel if they revealed HIS salary. I'd like to punch that douchebag in the grill.
 
flashgordon said:
Wow- what a d!ckhead of a CEO to tell the reporter the anesthesiologists' salary. Wonder how he'd feel if they revealed HIS salary. I'd like to punch that douchebag in the grill.
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I'd bet he would be happy to reveal his salary as long as it is compared to the anesthesiologists.
 
is it even legal for hospitals like that to abruptly terminate contracts like that, seems really foolish in my opinion, wont they loose money just by rehiring, and all the surgeries that will have to be postponed?
 
Military, sounds like your mentor is part of the problem....underbidding and keeping the cash eventually drives down everyone's salary....sure he's looking out for himself, but at the detriment of the specialty.
 
There are certainly a lot of details we don't know about how things went down. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, if this story can be tracked. The important thing to remember is that we are in a mostly capitalistic society, and anesthesiologists are not unionized. Those are two things I don't want to change. That means this type of stuff can and will happen. Whoever said in a previous post that "the only job security is to be underpaid and overworked in an undesirable location" hit it on the head.
 
Noyac said:
I'd bet he would be happy to reveal his salary as long as it is compared to the anesthesiologists.
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Administrators are increasingly being paid top salaries, and a CEO of a medium size hospital could easily be making twice as much as an average anesthesiologist with usually a very generous package of benefits and perks.
They are very very well paid and their job is to to remain well paid.
 
InductionAgent said:
There are certainly a lot of details we don't know about how things went down. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, if this story can be tracked. The important thing to remember is that we are in a mostly capitalistic society, and anesthesiologists are not unionized. Those are two things I don't want to change. That means this type of stuff can and will happen. Whoever said in a previous post that "the only job security is to be underpaid and overworked in an undesirable location" hit it on the head.
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yeah, I would love to see how this thing plays out. How long will that CEO keep his job etc....
 
The only thing about this situation that wouldn't garner more attention from other people is the amount of money that they were making. Otherwise, you have an executive who essentially lays off the staff of a hospital to make more money for himself and for the corporate entity. Where are the rights of the "little people" in all of this?

Sometimes I wished that anesthesiologists would form a union and collectively bargain on behalf of all gasmen in the U.S.


P.S. The C.E.O. didn't want to pay for anesthesiology services that he previously got for free, and that's essentially why he terminated the contract.
 
g3pro said:
Sometimes I wished that anesthesiologists would form a union and collectively bargain on behalf of all gasmen in the U.S.
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Unlikely to happen for a variety of reasons

1) only employees can form a union. If independent contractors do it, they go to jail for anti-trust violations.
2) in the situation where a hospital employs the MD's, a union is possible, but the bargaining power is dependent on a strike sticking. An employer can fire all striking workers and hire new ones. It will be tough nigh on impossible to keep other MD's from crossing a picket line.
 
Pilot Doc said:
that's how you break a strike ... offer a good deal to the replacements and fill their jobs quickly.
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Would anyone go and work there knowing the CEO and hospitals past history with GAS?

Is the money alluring enough?
 
and, according to the listing, that salary doesn't offer partnership or cover malpractice, which could eat into that dollar figure substantially.
 
Pilot Doc said:
Combined with the location ... yes.

They only have to find a handful of people. That will be easy to do in Seattle.
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Might be harder than you think...
Swedish is hiring in the neighborhood of 8-1o people this year
Overlake Hospital is hiring as well.
Evergreen Hospital just hired three people.
Edmonds is hiring
Auburn is hiring
Valley Medical center is hiring
Bellingham is hiring in the neighborhood of 5-6 people too...

So yes, Seattle does have location but there are a lot of jobs available this year. Given what has happened at Northwest it will probably rank far down on everyone's list (at least the grads coming out of UW and VM).

Plus the money is pretty good at most places (starting in the 300s with 10 wks vacation). There are some lucrative practices in town where the partners make over 400... with 10-12 wks vacation

Speaking of which, as of the last i heard (aka on Thursday) northwest was in the employ of only 3 anesthesiologists starting Feb 1 (from 20) from this Seattle Anesthesiology group and there were rumors that that group were going to break their hospital with Northwest... it could be interesting.. there are much much politics and bad blood at that hospital that i would stay far far far away from there.
 
DrDre' said:
That's the spirit! No wonder you are chief! :)
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I call it like it is brother.

170K is a bummer fo' sho. My wife is a doc. So I think we will be able to manage without the luxury modern Italian couch or HD LCD bathroom TV for a few years.

Regardless, partner in 2 years is a tough deal to beat. Especially when your pay will double.

Anytime one wants to live in a decent sized city and not work in a $hithole, financial concessions will have to be made, no? Seattle is the bomb and someday, perhaps, I'll end up back there.
 
VentdependenT said:
I call it like it is brother.

170K is a bummer fo' sho. My wife is a doc. So I think we will be able to manage without the luxury modern Italian couch or HD LCD bathroom TV for a few years.

Regardless, partner in 2 years is a tough deal to beat. Especially when your pay will double.

Anytime one wants to live in a decent sized city and not work in a $hithole, financial concessions will have to be made, no? Seattle is the bomb and someday, perhaps, I'll end up back there.
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The comepensation here is good. Most groups dont hold back as much the first couple of years. I think that most is about 20-30%. Swedish is at least 50% the first year (maybe 60%), then 25-30% the second. It's the "buy-in". Tacoma General (yes I know its Tacoma) offers 350 the first year, Evergreen and Overlake are about the same.... Vacation is big out here- most groups give 10 wks it seems...

one thing though to always keep in mind is are those numbers before or after all your contributions (ie is it a package number or a W2 number...)

One nice thing is that there are very few nurses out here (only at the academic hospitals)
 
VentdependenT said:
Anytime one wants to live in a decent sized city and not work in a $hithole, financial concessions will have to be made, no? Seattle is the bomb and someday, perhaps, I'll end up back there.
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Let me explain something to you.. You get what you negotiate. If you wanna be someone's sucka for the rest of your life.. go ahead accept a partnership position. so you can live in a decent sized city so you say. I have never been employed by a group or hospital and live in the second largest city in AMerica.. Accepting a partnership arrangement especially in a hospital with an exclusive contract to provide anesthesia services.. is funny business. You might as well bend over vent.. seriously.. anyway I agree seattle is a nice place.. hard to beat anywhere.. used to go up that way when i was dating the curator... but not nice enough to be screwed..
 
johankriek said:
Let me explain something to you.. You get what you negotiate. If you wanna be someone's sucka for the rest of your life.. go ahead accept a partnership position. so you can live in a decent sized city so you say. I have never been employed by a group or hospital and live in the second largest city in AMerica.. Accepting a partnership arrangement especially in a hospital with an exclusive contract to provide anesthesia services.. is funny business. You might as well bend over vent.. seriously.. anyway I agree seattle is a nice place.. hard to beat anywhere.. used to go up that way when i was dating the curator... but not nice enough to be screwed..
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So you're on your own holmes? How'd ya pull that off?

I'm completely new to this game. I know we have posts on negotiating, but for me, its still early. I know its NEVER too early to think about this stuff, but I have another year of fellowship to follow.

As always, advice is appreciated.

As for Tacoma? Hellllzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz no.
 
VentdependenT said:
As for Tacoma? Hellllzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz no.
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I agree with you on Tacoma... bu people say it's making a comeback.

if you are doing a hearts fellowship, there are a couple of games in town. The U, VM, and Swedish.... Overlake may do some but not a ton....
 
VentdependenT said:
VM would be sweeeeet!
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VM is good combo of private and academia- ie the pay is good and you get to work with residents. There are clinicial and non-clinical tracts. The non-clinical means that you are just a worker bee and dont really work with residents.. all the people I've met there are pretty happy and I hear it's quite collegial...

It also a place that they do things just because they can do them.. ie lamis under regional (one-two levels under a single shot epidural)... sure you can do a CABG under regional but just because you can do something doesnt mean you should.

Oh and their rapid infusion of choice... I've heard rumors of an alton dean floating around somewhere...
 
VentdependenT said:
So you're on your own holmes? How'd ya pull that off?

I'm completely new to this game. I know we have posts on negotiating, but for me, its still early. I know its NEVER too early to think about this stuff, but I have another year of fellowship to follow.

As always, advice is appreciated.

As for Tacoma? Hellllzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz no.
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I am on my own however i dont think i have the most ideal situation.. My situation is really day to day.. I am not guaranteed cases but i do manage to do stay at least moderately busy
 
nedflanders said:
Military, sounds like your mentor is part of the problem....underbidding and keeping the cash eventually drives down everyone's salary....sure he's looking out for himself, but at the detriment of the specialty.
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On the contrary, he is making the specialty stronger....taking over and getting rid of poor performers who are also greedy money mongers.....

He's paid me the same as he paid himself from the day I started my professional association with him....
 
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