Getting Into Competitive Residencies As A Do

awww I feel better now

Cabbage said:

We all know DOs can match into very competitive residencies, from derm to neurosurgery; however, what about the chance of DOs getting into competitive residencies at prestigious programs in competitive fields like opth at Wills Eye or CHOP (UPENN), derm at UCSF and blah blah blah.

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It's possible but to the point of almost impossible. You need real good connections, honors in every class, and many well known pubs to even compete with top notch MD students that are also applying there.

260? **** me.

Cabbage said:

yeah, sounds pretty messed up. id figure if you kill your USMLEs (i.e. 260ish) then you should have a shot at the most competitive residencies at the best programs in the country. So in the end, the perceived DO stigma keeps osteopathic physicians from being able to match into the best programs in the country? Its amazing when DO and MD numbers and board scores may cancel each other out, its the initials that continue to triumph. LAME.

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You are looking at this completely the wrong way. This isn't a DO vs MD issue ... this is any graduate of medical school trying to match into extremely competitive residencies. The point is that these programs are 'to the point of impossible' for MDs to match into as well. It's not like these programs receive 100 apps, 70 MD and 30 DO and then just automatically throw away the 30 DO apps ... it's that they get TONS of apps from all over that are extremely competitive. I think if someone went to a distinguished DO school and had connections opposed to someone who went to a smaller, less known, state MD school ... I highly doubt the MD applicant would be picked above the DO applicant.

Cabbage said:

Well, according to some family members at MD schools right now, being a DO is a huge advantage when applying to ridiculous residencies. You can be a stellar candidate from a DO school, with unbelievable board scores, pubs and etc., but you won't get even an interview b/c of the initials. Sure, you can be a DO and get into the same type of residency, but I highly doubt there is a single DO at UCSF for derm or penn for opth. friggen system is stupid, then again screw it. AT STILL is my homeboy.

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Sounds like you would feel better with an MD ... maybe you should look into that.

My point is that you are still extremely unlikely to land UCSF derm or Penn opth as an MD also. It's the best of the best ... don't think that an MD will just get you things over a DO. Being good will get you places.

Do you really think that there are no DO's in opth at UPenn and Derm at UCSF because all the DO applicants were discriminated against for being DO's, despite having 260 on step 1, and a bunch of pubs?

1. There are about 1/5 as many DO schools as MD schools

2. The type of people who get those residencies and the type of people who go to DO schools are typically not the same.

3. Those residencies are going to require a lot of research. Only a handful of DO schools will offer significant research opportunities. Nearly every MD school will offer a lot of research. Particularly the big state schools and big-name private schools. DO schools are typically concerned with producing clinicians.

To summarize: if you want to match at one of those programs, you will have a lot easier time from an MD school, but not necessarily because of the letters "MD".

Cabbage said:

Well, according to some family members at MD schools right now, being a DO is a huge advantage when applying to ridiculous residencies. You can be a stellar candidate from a DO school, with unbelievable board scores, pubs and etc., but you won't get even an interview b/c of the initials. Sure, you can be a DO and get into the same type of residency, but I highly doubt there is a single DO at UCSF for derm or penn for opth. friggen system is stupid, then again screw it. AT STILL is my homeboy.

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Unfortunately your family members don't know ****.

Cabbage said:

okay buddy, how about you tell me a single top notch competitive residency program that has a single DO in it. i doubt u'll find a single one. sure my family members may not know ****, but they sure as hell got into these aforementioned residencies. listen, im not "knockin" DO schools at all as i applied to them, just pointing out evident bias.

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Hello ... first, I just wanted to say that I'm not trying to purposely disagree with you or stir the pot, but I'm assuming you picked those residencies because you had family members the completed their residency there? That being said ... DOs do match into absurdly tough MD residencies. Now, can these numbers be small .... of course. DOs represent a much smaller number of applicants to residencies, so take into account that will also make the numbers matching into them less, but they still exist.

Cabbage said:

okay buddy, how about you tell me a single top notch competitive residency program that has a single DO in it. i doubt u'll find a single one. sure my family members may not know ****, but they sure as hell got into these aforementioned residencies. listen, im not "knockin" DO schools at all as i applied to them, just pointing out evident bias.

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There is a DO at U of Iowa's ophtho program, which is one of the most respected ophtho programs in the country (consistently ranked one of the top five - up there with Wills and Bascom Palmer). He is still there as a fellow. To reiterate what max has said, your family does not know ****.
Look at the NRMP match data. You will see there are a small handful of DOs that match into very competitive specialties every year, including plastics, derm, rad onc, etc... The data also points out that very few DOs actually apply to these programs. So, it's not a matter of DOs not being competitive, it's more a matter of DOs not applying. For example, we had a PGY-7 neurosurgery resident from U of Iowa speak to our surgery club last semester (note that U of IA is a top tier neurosurg program). He said they have no bias against DOs who apply, it's just a matter of them not receiving applications from DO students.

Cabbage said:

Well, according to some family members at MD schools right now,

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I stopped reading after this.

Cabbage said:

...how about you tell me a single top notch competitive residency program that has a single DO in it. i doubt u'll find a single one..... just pointing out evident bias.

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Two things: First an example. LSU takes exactly one neurosurgery resident per year. Last year (2007) that was a DO from Lecom. No DO has ever gotten into that residency before. I'd call that competitive. There are quite a few more-- but you said just one, so that's what I'm giving you.

Second, you can only count a bias if you actually have quality DO candidates applying and not getting in. Do you have the figures of how many qualified DOs actually applied to those residencies last year? When you have that figure, get back to us.

Honestly, if you are concerned about not getting into a traditionally non-DO friendly specialty or residency, then it would be best to be admitted to an MD school. But it would really help if you got into a top-tier MD school with name recognition. Then you'd need competitive grades and board scores, and depending on the specialty, research.

That really is the bottom line.

If you are one of those people, it should be no problem.

Good luck!

According to my cousins, it's really cool to be a DO.

Plus, I met someone at a supermarket once who said he knew a guy who once dated a girl who was in med school and is now married to a DO who was applying to a really competitive specialty and she told the guy that his husband got in, who then in turn told this guy who was talking to me at the supermarket.

J1515 said:

I stopped reading after this.

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Me too

Shinken said:

According to my cousins, it's really cool to be a DO.

Plus, I met someone at a supermarket once who said he knew a guy who once dated a girl who was in med school and is now married to a DO who was applying to a really competitive specialty and she told the guy that his husband got in, who then in turn told this guy who was talking to me at the supermarket.

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I think I heard about him on the radio the other day

Shinken said:

According to my cousins, it's really cool to be a DO.

Plus, I met someone at a supermarket once who said he knew a guy who once dated a girl who was in med school and is now married to a DO who was applying to a really competitive specialty and she told the guy that his husband got in, who then in turn told this guy who was talking to me at the supermarket.

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I was saving my 1000th post for something interesting, but I could never hope to post as interestingly as your 1000th post. Thus I will use my 1000th post to salute your 1000th post. Salud.

Gen Surgery at Penn, since you want an example:
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/surgery/housestaff/asb.html

Fellowship at CHOP in pediatric anesthesiology:
http://www.med.upenn.edu/apps/faculty/index.php/g319/p8039

Real mature.

its harder for a d.o. but not impossible. anyone who doesn't agree with this has got to be in serious denial.

I didn't even know "hella insert adverb or adjective" was a colloquialism still in use.

This thread is annoying.

They're paintball goggles.

ahaydt said:

They're paintball goggles.

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i was thinking dirt bike helmet. close i guess.

ahaydt said:

They're paintball goggles.

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I miss paintball...

Marthea007 said:

I miss paintball...

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Honestly, I don't play. However I'm a referee at a huge complex on the east coast. www.skirmish.com Come visit us sometime!

UCDavisdude said:

i was thinking dirt bike helmet. close i guess.

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Nope. Haha. The goggles are a flex pair meaning when a paintball hits the goggle frame the momentum causes the plastic to bend. This is an advantage because there is a possibility that the ball won't break, thus keeping you in the game.

Also, I don't think dirtbike eye shields are rated for projectiles flying at your eye in excess of 280 feet per second.

ahaydt said:

Honestly, I don't play. However I'm a referee at a huge complex on the east coast. www.skirmish.com Come visit us sometime!

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Oooooh paintball is so fun!

Marthea, do you know of any places to play paintball out in TN? That would be really fun! 2011 vs. 2012!

Cabbage said:

thanks for that. the gen surgery guy looks hella funny. hahaha

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You ARE a tool. Way to nail that one..

ahaydt said:

I'm a referee at a huge complex on the east coast. www.skirmish.com Come visit us sometime!

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I played there a few weeks ago. That place is cool & paintball is awesome. I would prefer to play in the woods with friends though. How could you not play?

The only thing that sucked was when I put my paintballs down the first game and some scumbag stole them so I had to go buy more. Oh, and all the thugs from NY don't know how to put the safety on/barrel plug in and wave their guns around like fools. Idiots with guns are not fun to be around.

Playmakur42 said:

I played there a few weeks ago. That place is cool & paintball is awesome. I would prefer to play in the woods with friends though. How could you not play?

The only thing that sucked was when I put my paintballs down the first game and some scumbag stole them so I had to go buy more. Oh, and all the thugs from NY don't know how to put the safety on/barrel plug in and wave their guns around like fools. Idiots with guns are not fun to be around.

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Sorry to hear about that. Did you let your ref know that your paint was stolen? Usually we try to help players out if we can. I know what you mean about some populations and their tendencies to not follow safety precautions. There are groups from NY as you suggest that don't follow the safety protocols even after we yell at them. I've thrown people off fields because of it and some will learn, but others just simply do it again. As you could tell we're lax as long as the goggles are on and barrel plugs are in when necessary. Then there are the groups that are strictly business and follow safety to a "T." If you come up over the summer you can always request me as your ref .

ahaydt said:

Sorry to hear about that. Did you let your ref know that your paint was stolen? Usually we try to help players out if we can. I know what you mean about some populations and their tendencies to not follow safety precautions. There are groups from NY as you suggest that don't follow the safety protocols even after we yell at them. I've thrown people off fields because of it and some will learn, but others just simply do it again. As you could tell we're lax as long as the goggles are on and barrel plugs are in when necessary. Then there are the groups that are strictly business and follow safety to a "T." If you come up over the summer you can always request me as your ref .

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My friends and I always wanted to go to Skirmish in high school. Might have to this summer.. My Tipp 98 is broken in so many ways though that I sinerely hope it still works...

MaximusD said:

My friends and I always wanted to go to Skirmish in high school. Might have to this summer.. My Tipp 98 is broken in so many ways though that I sinerely hope it still works...

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Our lead tech was a professional player for many years. He knows what he is doing. The other techs are great as well. Bring it with you (we rent Tippys) and they'll fix it for the cost of parts. Maybe I will see you this summer .

prionsRbad said:

Oooooh paintball is so fun!

Marthea, do you know of any places to play paintball out in TN? That would be really fun! 2011 vs. 2012!

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I know of a pretty good place out a little past Oak Ridge. We went last summer for the beginning of my buddies bachelor party in the morning. Hella fun. I'm sure we can go there, or even find somewhere around Harrogate to play. Like a big open field with hay rolls.

Since this thread is totally broke down anyway...

ahaydt said:

Fellowship at CHOP in pediatric anesthesiology:
http://www.med.upenn.edu/apps/faculty/index.php/g319/p8039

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Anyone find it funny that an Undergrad in Biology awarded this guy a B.A.?

MLT2MT2DO said:

Anyone find it funny that an Undergrad in Biology awarded this guy a B.A.?

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No. I had the option of getting a B.S. or a B.A. but I stuck with the B.S. The only difference at my undergrad was that you needed some more liberal arts courses and a certain number of foreign language credits for the B.A.

rose351 said:

I know of a pretty good place out a little past Oak Ridge. We went last summer for the beginning of my buddies bachelor party in the morning. Hella fun. I'm sure we can go there, or even find somewhere around Harrogate to play. Like a big open field with hay rolls.

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Sounds awesome! I'm sooo down!

Look at you saying "hella" . . . you're such a Cali boy and you don't even know it!

scpod said:

No. I had the option of getting a B.S. or a B.A. but I stuck with the B.S. The only difference at my undergrad was that you needed some more liberal arts courses and a certain number of foreign language credits for the B.A.

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I think you can pick either a BA or BS for most of the science degrees at my school. I know for sure in Chemistry, Biology, and Geology. As SCPOD said, you usually replace some liberal arts classes for the science classes.