Do DO student feel inferior sometimes?

stmclovin said:

Besides that my parents (health professionals) keep on looking down at the whole osteopathy philosophy. To them, osteopathy and homeopathy sound exactly the same, even after I tried to explain them. They are even refusing to refer to DO shools I was accepted to as "medical schools," which resulted in numerious conflicts between us. They regard MD schools with much more respect.

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Are your parents physicians? If they aren't then they really have no basis for the bias except for ignorance. Unless a DO beat the crap out of them.

Since I'm not a DO student, I can't answer the thread title question, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents anyway as an MD student who has worked with a few visiting DO students on certain rotations. Most of the time there's no problem - they're just like the rest of us. Some have been more skilled than others, some have been better with patients than others, some have been harder workers than others -- in other words, there's a range of ability and performance, just like there is with my MD classmates. However, there are 2 things I've noticed specifically with regard to DO students:

1. A few attendings do seem to look down on them. Sometimes it's kind of subtle, but sometimes they'll really talk **** about the DO students when they're not around. I haven't seen this a ton, but when I have it seems more to do with the attending's bias than with anything the student has or hasn't done.

2. We had one DO rotate through who seemed to have a real chip on his shoulder with regard to MD programs. Constantly wanting to start arguments about how his training was "more comprehensive" than MD programs, that he was going to be a "more well-rounded" doc, that he was trained to treat "the whole patient". Naturally, he rubbed a lot of people in our MD program the wrong way, and he wasn't treated that well.

DOs have a harder time getting into specialties and are typically limited to family practice + internal medicine type fields.

I.e. you're not going to see as many DOs going into Neurosurgery as you will as MDs.

I think deep down if a person was given a choice between a DO school and an MD school, majority of people would go for the MD simply because 1) they have stronger matching on the norm 2) they tend to be subsidized a bit more and can be much cheaper than DO schools 3) they have higher gpa and mcat scores which makes one think that they are "more prestigious"

Of course no one can quantify all of this and say X is a better doctor than Y. And I'm not denigrating the field of osteopathy, I will be applying DO as a backup, but for me personally I want to go into allopathy.

stmclovin said:

What about DO did they think was inferior?
Well, maybe we should create a black list of hospitals/residencies that are not DO-friendly.

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I can answer this (kinda) because I can officially count my dad as part of the "old guard" doctors now. Many of the older doctors (my dad graduated medschool in the 60s) have a bias against DOs because of the time they went to school. Then, the people who went to osteopathic schools tended to be a little off, and received a vastly inferior education with minimal amounts of cadavers, large classes, bad teachers, etc. In addition, he was a city guy for a long time and never really met many DOs, and the ones he did just filled his stereotypes. When we moved to the midwest he wouldn't let us see DOs as our pcp at first. Eventually, he realized that there are great DOs and crap DOs just like there are great MDs and crap MDs. He has a tremendous amount of respect for them as his partners now, but it did take some time. Not everyone is so accommodating. They WANT to see DOs as the guys who couldn't get MD and have a crap education, so they tend to nitpick and find those things in potentially good students...The tools only make things worse...

masterMood said:

DOs have a harder time getting into specialties and are typically limited to family practice + internal medicine type fields.

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You are not "limited" to anything.

Class of 2007 at NYCOM had around 280 students, approx 78 went into internal medicine or family practice. Other specialties included (rough numbers from a quick scan down the list):

Anesthesiology=18
Emergency Medicine=25
Surgery = 23
Diagnostic Radiology = 8
Pediatric Neurology at Harvard=1
Pathology=4
pediatrics=30
psychiatry=17
ob/gyn=18
pm&r=15
"traditional internship" with no specialty as of yet=45

If you are a pre-med and want truthful information, talk to an actual doctor or resident.

To the OP - tell your parents DOs do exactly the same thing as MDs. It's when people preach about this whole different philosophy and "treating the whole person" garbage that people roll their eyes. MDs have the same exact philosophy and take the same exact classes (minus OMM).

And finally, no I never feel inferior. The only time I even think about the letters after my name is when I'm responding to posts on here. Know your stuff on rotations and put forth an effort and you won't have any reason to feel inferior.

The only time I feel inferior to an MD student is when I have one standing on the top of my head. It's not something I do often.

stmclovin said:

I was accepted to several DO schools, but no MD interviews so far. Even though, I am happy that I am given a chance of becoming a doctor; however, it does not leave my mind that I did so well with DO schools but so terribly with MD schools. It seems that the whole allopathic medical school application process tends to be more selective for the stats (grade trends, MCAT retake trends, other factors).

Besides that my parents (health professionals) keep on looking down at the whole osteopathy philosophy. To them, osteopathy and homeopathy sound exactly the same, even after I tried to explain them. They are even refusing to refer to DO shools I was accepted to as "medical schools," which resulted in numerious conflicts between us. They regard MD schools with much more respect.

So my question is... Do people who applied to both MD and DO, but ended up going into DO schools get an "inferiority complex" from time to time. Do DO students get treated bad by faculty or other rotating MD students? How do you respond/fight this kind of personal attacks?

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I think you're lumping a couple different issues together here, one of which is how DO students perceive themselves, and the other is how they are perceived by their community and peers. Since the second issue has been discussed ad nauseum, I'll respond only to the first.

I think feeling inferior is something internal, which you project on yourself. If you go into osteopathic medicine believing you are inferior, I think it's likely your experience will confirm this. However, I'm doubtful that the DO students getting 240's on the USMLE and matching neurosurgery are laying awake at night troubled by feelings of inferiority - they're too busy. Rather than worrying about what others think, if you focus on being the best med student/doc you can be, you'll find plenty of success and opportunities, and you will earn the respect of those around you through hard work and excellence in your field. With DOs matching into every specialty and practicing in every conceivable situation, personally, I don't see any reason to feel inferior. You may face more of an uphill road in certain specialties, but your only limits are your ability and work ethic.

i'm not an attending i dont' know why it says that. But secondly, you have to admit the price of DO school is a lot more than an MD school on average.

Thirdly, I've seen a lot more interest in the MD (much more competition, higher gpas, mcats, etc.) than I have for the DO schools. Does this mean that someone who got into a DO school is stupider or not as hardworking thatn someone who went into an MD school? I don't know, from experiences in colleges, it seems that the ones who are going into DO are the ones who had a lot of trouble on the MCAT and science classes, but that's personal experience.

Also, as I said the overall trend of DO schools is what I am looking at. I have heard a lot of complaints about NYCOM (very vociferous about the lack of organization at the school, I know this because i was going to enter NYCOM through a special program that would let me graduate in 3 years rather than 4). Yes there are strong schools like NYCOM or PCOM, but there are many other DO schools that have had some major credibility issues in the past couple of years (though one could argue that it was the same for MD).

The point I am making is whether one wants to ignore it or not, is that a lot more people want to go into an MD school over a DO school if they had the chance. This doesn't mean that a DO is less than an MD, nor does it mean that entering a DO school automatically makes life more difficult, it just means that for the majority of people, they want what is perceived as the "best."

Why does the DO forum have a sticky on complaints about the AOA not respecting the opinions/thoughts/ideas of its fellow members, why does it have the price so high, etc. while the allopathic forums do not?

Philosophy overall to me at least, doesn't really as much as action does. Doing something instead of philosophizing (the differences between "treating the whole person" versus that of allopathy) means much more to the patient and to society as a whole.

masterMood said:

i'm not an attending i dont' know why it says that. But secondly, you have to admit the price of DO school is a lot more than an MD school on average.

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This is from a previous post of mine, but I thought I'd repost it here since I think it addresses part of your statement:

This half-truth arises from the simple fact that the majority of DO schools are private, and thus will have higher tuition than public MD (or DO) schools. However, comparing public and private schools is really apples vs. oranges.

Tuition & Fees

Public MD Schools

Private MD Schools

DO Schools

According to my limited excel skills-
average resident tuition & fees at private MD schools is: 39,742
Nonresident: 40,523

Average tuition and fees at private DO schools for residents: 34,113
Nonresidents: 34,893

Comparing private MD vs private DO schools, DO schools tend to be $4000-$5000 less than private MD schools.

DO Tuition Fastfacts

masterMood said:

i'm not an attending i dont' know why it says that. But secondly, you have to admit the price of DO school is a lot more than an MD school on average.

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I don't know the prices of all the MD schools, but I'm looking up a few randomly on the east coast:

Allopathic -
Temple: about $40,000
Drexel: about $40,000
NYMC: $40,000
Columbia: $43,000
Cornell: about $40,000
SUNY Downstate (state school): NYS resident=$18,000, and NON-res=$33,000
NJMS-NJ resident=$23,000, NON-resident=$36,203

Osteopathic -
NYCOM: About $40,000
UMDNJSOM: $23,000
LECOM-Erie: $26,000
LECOM-Brad: $26,000
PCOM-PA: $35,000
PCOM-GA: $35,000
VCOM: $31,000
WVSOM: WV resident=$19,000, NON-resident=$46,000
UNECOM: $40,000

From what I could find, osteopathic medical schools are no more expensive than private MD schools. Some DO schools are cheaper.

masterMood said:

Thirdly, I've seen a lot more interest in the MD (much more competition, higher gpas, mcats, etc.) than I have for the DO schools.

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Because there are more MDs in the world.

masterMood said:

I don't know, from experiences in colleges, it seems that the ones who are going into DO are the ones who had a lot of trouble on the MCAT and science classes, but that's personal experience.

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True, unfortunately. Some are there because they couldn't get into an MD school, and these are the same people who want the AOA to change the DO letters to MDO or some other stupid nonsense.

masterMood said:

Also, as I said the overall trend of DO schools is what I am looking at. I have heard a lot of complaints about NYCOM (very vociferous about the lack of organization at the school, I know this because i was going to enter NYCOM through a special program that would let me graduate in 3 years rather than 4).

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As a NYCOMer, I can tell you it's fine. 3 years ago a new curriculum was introduced and since then things have been very organized. Before that (4-8 years ago) the first two years of basic sciences were disorganized and this is what people were complaining about.

masterMood said:

Yes there are strong schools like NYCOM or PCOM, but there are many other DO schools that have had some major credibility issues in the past couple of years (though one could argue that it was the same for MD).

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What were the many other DO schools with credibility issues?

Tired Pigeon said:

2. We had one DO rotate through who seemed to have a real chip on his shoulder with regard to MD programs. Constantly wanting to start arguments about how his training was "more comprehensive" than MD programs, that he was going to be a "more well-rounded" doc, that he was trained to treat "the whole patient". Naturally, he rubbed a lot of people in our MD program the wrong way, and he wasn't treated that well.

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I hope none of my classmates are this ridiculous come rotations, gives the rest of us a bad name. I will personally slice their elbows off.

stmclovin said:

I was accepted to several DO schools, but no MD interviews so far. Even though, I am happy that I am given a chance of becoming a doctor; however, it does not leave my mind that I did so well with DO schools but so terribly with MD schools. It seems that the whole allopathic medical school application process tends to be more selective for the stats (grade trends, MCAT retake trends, other factors).

Besides that my parents (health professionals) keep on looking down at the whole osteopathy philosophy. To them, osteopathy and homeopathy sound exactly the same, even after I tried to explain them. They are even refusing to refer to DO shools I was accepted to as "medical schools," which resulted in numerious conflicts between us. They regard MD schools with much more respect.

So my question is... Do people who applied to both MD and DO, but ended up going into DO schools get an "inferiority complex" from time to time. Do DO students get treated bad by faculty or other rotating MD students? How do you respond/fight this kind of personal attacks?

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If you allow yourself to feel inferior then yes. I for one believe both schools of thought are equal. Sure, we learn OMM but, how many of us will actually use that? I know that after nearly two years of learning and using it, I will only use it on a rare occasion if ever. Someone mentioned the "you will be limited to family practice and IM." This statement is about as bogus as the attending tag under his/her name. It may be harder to get into some residencies, but I feel this is fading. In the end, some people will always fly the flag of superiority; this happens in all walks of life, not just medicine. My answer to this: ignore them and try as hard as you can to make yourself stand out as an intelligent and acceptable colleague.

stmclovin said:

I was accepted to several DO schools, but no MD interviews so far. Even though, I am happy that I am given a chance of becoming a doctor; however, it does not leave my mind that I did so well with DO schools but so terribly with MD schools. It seems that the whole allopathic medical school application process tends to be more selective for the stats (grade trends, MCAT retake trends, other factors).

Besides that my parents (health professionals) keep on looking down at the whole osteopathy philosophy. To them, osteopathy and homeopathy sound exactly the same, even after I tried to explain them. They are even refusing to refer to DO shools I was accepted to as "medical schools," which resulted in numerious conflicts between us. They regard MD schools with much more respect.

So my question is... Do people who applied to both MD and DO, but ended up going into DO schools get an "inferiority complex" from time to time. Do DO students get treated bad by faculty or other rotating MD students? How do you respond/fight this kind of personal attacks?

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Please, post this kind of crap in the pre-med boards, not here. We, (or I) don't give a rat's a$$ about your parent's approval, etc.

Also, your parents, despite being health professionals, seem poorly informed. Serious question; are they U.S. medical school grads? I have a hunch that they are not. It's either that, or they aren't physicians.

stmclovin said:

Guys, let not turn it into MD vs. DO thing.... again. I was looking a little deeper into this.

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Well, what do you expect if you make a post that can be offensive to DO med students. If anyone is making this into what you say above, it would be you. That being said, I'm done with this thread. Thanks and have a nice day.

masterMood, you can change your tag from "attending" (and thus stop misleading other posters) by doing the following:

1. simply going to the "quick links" on the top menu bar
2. selecting "edit profile".
3. Scroll down until you get to "Additional Information" - about 1/2 way down the page.
4. There you will see the choice for "Current Status" - the first option box.
5. Scroll in there until you find your current status (whatever that may be).

-Shy

Rooter76 said:

You're correct that this is not specific to osteopathy today, and it's philosophical foundation certainly stretches back a ways. But, in Still's time, "mainstream" medicine was hardly what it is now, and the osteopathic principle of treating the whole person was a fresh and innovative concept, for all intensive purposes. Over time many of these holistic principles (and osteopathic medicine itself) have worked their way into the "mainstream" and many modern "allopathic" physicians are certainly holistic in thinking. And at the same time many symptoms/treat-the-disease principles have worked their way into osteopathy. The combination of these two trends have made "allopathic" and "osteopathic" medicine generally indistinguishable from a philosophical approach today. But historically this was not the case.

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I think this is an incredibly important point that people either don't know, or simply forget about. DOs really don't still have the "right" to say, "Unlike our MD brethren, we treat the whole patient...blah, blah, blah", because that just isn't true TODAY. Walking around with that sort of mantra is not only ignorant, it's condescending.

Nevertheless, I think people consciously or subconsciously re-write history, and many would almost lead you to believe that, historically, physicians (MDs) have been holistically treating patients since the beginning of time. This just isn't the case. Probably the most important (in my opinion) thing to result from the emergence of osteopathic medicine is this holistic, patient centered approach that Osteopathic Medicine has brought about.

My point: At the very least, the DO profession should be given credit where credit is due.

I am going to be entering into DO school this fall, and I wanted to address what little I've observed, regarding the comments on this thread about DO's and their lack of options/candidacy on pursuing a specialty that is not private practice or IM.
I work in clinical research for an Anesthesiology department in a major hospital on the east coast, for now, and I can tell you that at least (if not more) one-third of our attending docs are DOs. The number is even higher with the residents - I would say somewhere between one-third and one-half of the residents are DOs. It just may be that the faculty here are less of the "old world" physicians that people are referencing that are not DO-friendly? But I can tell you that it's not impossible to find a facility that welcomes DOs and MDs alike.

It'sElectric said:

Nevertheless, I think people consciously or subconsciously re-write history, and many would almost lead you to believe that, historically, physicians (MDs) have been holistically treating patients since the beginning of time. This just isn't the case. Probably the most important (in my opinion) thing to result from the emergence of osteopathic medicine is this holistic, patient centered approach that Osteopathic Medicine has brought about.

My point: At the very least, the DO profession should be given credit where credit is due.

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Nope.

stmclovin said:

Besides that my parents (health professionals) keep on looking down at the whole osteopathy philosophy. To them, osteopathy and homeopathy sound exactly the same, even after I tried to explain them. They are even refusing to refer to DO shools I was accepted to as "medical schools," which resulted in numerious conflicts between us. They regard MD schools with much more respect.

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I am really curious, are both your parents Physicians?

My two cents about your other issues:
I have met many colleagues who decided to go to an Osteopathic program over an Allopathic program (even one such as Ohio State, which is top 50 somewhere I think).

If your parents don't think highly of Osteopathic programs, or physicians, then that's their opinion. Don't let that sway your opinion, but considering you currently only have interviews to osteopathic programs, i can see how that can be disconcerting. Do keep this in mind though, I have meet many physicians/students/interns both MD and DO that I think would be/are great physicians, and those that are horrendous, and I fear for their future patients lives.

Whatever program you go into (O/A) i don't think you will be hindered from getting into your respective residency. If you are smart enough and work hard enough, I am sure you will get to where you want to go. Think of it this way as well, going to a DO program gives you more opportunities as well. You can apply to Osteopathic AND Allopathic residencies.

Final thought, as a DO you can perform OMM (manipulation) AND get paid for it!

Best wishes to your future endeavors.

masterMood said:

I don't know, from experiences in colleges, it seems that the ones who are going into DO are the ones who had a lot of trouble on the MCAT and science classes, but that's personal experience.

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J1515 said:

True, unfortunately. Some are there because they couldn't get into an MD school, and these are the same people who want the AOA to change the DO letters to MDO or some other stupid nonsense.

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Regarding the MDO thing, I find it so irritating when some people at my school are so relentless about changing the title. Maybe some people truely believe there is a benefit or what not, but certain people just seem to have some sort of complex. They MUST have MD somewhere in there title. I bet some of these people would gladly trade in their DO diploma for a MD diploma any chance they would have.

I have yet to meet an osteopathic physician that is ashamed he/she is a DO or to be known as one.

Do I feel inferior? Not at all. I'm going to be a doctor and wake up every day doing a job that I really love, knowing that I'm helping people. Does it get much better than that?

Personal experience masterMood? I thought you were preparing now for the MCAT. I'm confused.

There are lots of reasons why people go DO. And not all of them have to do with any kind of problems with science classes or MCATs. I'd be really really careful putting words in people's mouths (or application experiences), masterMood.

For the record, I had neither problems with my science classes or my MCAT. And I'm very happy to be in DO school.

im so inferior, boo hoo. im going to go cry in the girls bathroom now.

what a lame post. if ya cant handle being a DO , then why apply dang it. so many MD rejects i see.

Fin-Nor said:

if ya cant handle being a DO , then why apply dang it.

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They apply so that they can petition to change the DO degree to MDO or something even more lame.

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt.

inferior? no.

irritated that the AOA promotes the idea that there's a "DO difference"? quite

ebmarassed that the AOA supports completely nonsense crap like craniosacral therapy? absolutely

Basically everything that needs to be said in this thread already has, but I'll throw in a few opinions (of a dumb pre med):

-First and foremost, the whole 'Oh no I'm a DO' thing is such a foolish pre med mindset. If you think about it in real world terms you would be asking yourself: ' Should I be ashamed to be a doctor?' The only people in the universe who worry about the MD vs DO thing are pre meds. 99% of the world would a. Never look at the letters behind your name on the white coat b. Not think about it if they did c. (extreme scenario) you have a three second conversation that explains what a DO is, but either way they are coming to you as a professional because it was suggested or they heard you were good or whatever else.

-Which leads to point c ... the dreaded conversation. Someone on these forums (might have actually been ShyRem) explained how it goes, and I think it was the best so far. If you are having a conversation with someone who is intelligent you phrase it like this ' A DO and an MD is like the difference between a BA and BS. Say you go to one school that gives out a BS in Economics and one that gives out a BA .... different letters, same degree.' No one is going to say ohh BS > BA. If the conversation is just with whatever you say 'Same thing, some medical schools give out a DO others an MD, and I went to a school that gives out DO degrees upon completion of medical school.' Bam ... problem solved, no one is going to suddenly look at you as some back cracking voodoo healer after that little convo.

Remember ... you are a doctor, that is how society is going to view it. Will there potentially be some stuffy old MD who doesn't view you as equal? Maybe. Does this happen to a certain extend in every profession in the world ? Yes. There are certain old guys at my dad's business who basically only hire people who got their MBA from a small sect of colleges, would my dad do this ... absolutely not, but it's an example of how little of an impact this would actually have if you were worried about MDs looking down on you.

Those old people are going to retire eventually.

Progress is made one funeral at a time.

Instatewaiter said:

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Tired Pigeon said:

Since I'm not a DO student, I can't answer the thread title question, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents anyway as an MD student who has worked with a few visiting DO students on certain rotations. Most of the time there's no problem - they're just like the rest of us. Some have been more skilled than others, some have been better with patients than others, some have been harder workers than others -- in other words, there's a range of ability and performance, just like there is with my MD classmates.

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Here's what happens in my hospital:

MD student rotator sucks
"Man, that student totally sucks. We're totally not selecting him for residency."

DO student rotator sucks
"Man, DO students totally suck. I can't believe we take DOs."

Not fair, but you guys should be aware that, in at least some allopathic hospitals, your performance (especially if it is poor) is likely to be taken as representative of your community.

Tired said:

MD student rotator sucks
"Man, that student totally sucks. We're totally not selecting him for residency."

DO student rotator sucks
"Man, DO students totally suck. I can't believe we take DOs."

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Just like this: http://www.xkcd.com/385

JaggerPlate said:

A DO and an MD is like the difference between a BA and BS. Say you go to one school that gives out a BS in Economics and one that gives out a BA .... different letters, same degree.' No one is going to say ohh BS > BA.

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Not to belabor the argument, but I've always had a problem with this analogy, and others like it.

At my undergrad, you can get a BA or a BS in Chemistry. The difference you ask? To earn the BS you have to take 3 extra [more advanced] physics courses, calc 3 and general bio (you don't have to take any of those for BA). This is just one example, there are other fields in which one can earn a BS or the lesser BA in the same subject at that school.

So the difference between BA and BS, at least in this case, is not the same as the difference between DO and MD. Furthermore, I would say that BS > BA in this case.

It seems wiki is in agreement:

The BS degree typically specifies more courses in the major (or cognate fields) than does the BA degree.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Arts

I have now said my piece regarding the dreaded use of inaccurate analogies, carry on.

DrMidlife said:

Just like this: http://www.xkcd.com/385

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xkcd

To the op, so I study at a local cafe that is attached to this supermarket. Today the supermarket was having open interviews for cashier jobs and shelf stocking jobs. There were literally around 80 to 90 people standing in 20 degree weather waiting to be interviewed. These were not people in there mid 20's either they were people in there 40's and 50's men, women, people with familys ext ext. I really kinda felt bad for them. Here they are trying to get hired for what 8,9, maybe 10 dollars an hour to put food on there table. Instead of going about worrying about all this nonsense, you should be thanking God every day that you are going to be privilidged enough to do a job you love making a huge impact in people lives (and making a very good living). Do the best you can, work hard, know your stuff and the rest will take care of itself. Seriously this M.D D.O stuff is sooooooo irrevelent in the grand scheme of life.

If you take an ACS approved course schedule, the BS degree is MUCH more rigorous than the BA in chemistry. For science courses that follow national standard curriculae and take national exams, BA has always been viewed as a watered-down version of the BS course. The BS/BA argument cannot be held for those Ivy-league colleges that still give everyone an AB degree (and thus BS/BA degrees don't exist there). However, most of those universities/colleges have only the more rigorous BS curriculae and don't offer the BA major curricula option.

This comes from my father, the chemistry professor who bemoans the fact that there is a BA degree in chemistry at all. How did he put it.... "a degree for those who couldn't pass the real chemistry classes - a consolidation prize." I had never heard of a BA in chemistry before I came to the east coast. My college had only a BS degree in the sciences. And yes, I would say he's pretty involved in the current chemistry "vibe". Very involved in the American Chemical Society, nationwide research, research for NASA... I think he has a lot of truth in his opinion and is NOT an "old-timer".

So the BS/BA argument is really not applicable at all.

smq123 said:

I'm sorry that your parents feel that way.

Obviously, I don't know your parents, but if they're making such a big fuss about osteopathy, they sound like they'd be picky about everything in life.

If your parents are that picky, there's no guarantee that they'll stop nagging you if you did go to an MD school. It's possible that they'd disagree with your choice of specialty ("But only surgeons are real doctors! Why do you want to do pediatrics? And psychiatrists aren't real physicians - why do you want to do that?" etc.). It's possible that they'd disagree about where to do residency. It's possible that they'll disagree with you about everything.

If you, in your heart, do not feel that you will receive an inferior education at a DO school (and you probably won't), then you should go DO. If it still bothers you, then you might not be happy at a DO school, and will not do well academically. It's really up to you and what YOU believe.



This is the thing that kills me about medicine. Everyone is so freaked out about being "looked down" upon. OB/gyns get pissed off if they feel that the surgeons are looking down on them. Surgeons get riled up if they feel like anesthesiologists (or anyone in a lifestyle specialty) are looking down on them. People in lifestyle specialties make sarcastic comments about other people's Step 1 scores if they feel that family practitioners or pediatricians look down on them. Pediatricians get pissed off if they feel like people look down on them because they only take care of kids, not adults. And people in path and radiology get pissed if they feel like internal med doctors look down on them because they "don't take care of patients." Etc, etc - it goes on and on. (Don't even get me started about the emergency med doctors and the rest of the hospital!)

OP - if you think that people are looking down on you for being a DO, then guess what? No matter what you do, someone is going to look down on you. The real question is how much you're willing to let it bother you.

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Pretty good post - I think youre right. I mean you take all these competitive people, who had to excel, be competitive and confident and ambitious to get where they are and you stratify them out into different categories and what you've got is a bunch of clashing egos, for the most part. The only way to be above it is exactly what you said....it's kind of up to the individual and his/her own personality/security/confidence to determine how much you're going to be influenced by it. A good rule of thumb is to have a role model in mind: one of those doctors who everyone respects, who handles difficult people/situations confidently and well, and who just seems above all that pettiness. you know the people I mean. the rockstars. the "man I hope I can be like that someday" people. and try to emulate that.

i mean that's what medical training is - you're absorbing what other people do and say in order to emulate the things you think they do well that you'd also like to do well, and to avoid the things you think are ineffective or not your style, whether it's placing an ng tube, counseling a COPD patient, or being able to take a joke. find someone who's above it and use that attitude as a goal. because it really is silly.

Im a third year. I have rotated with kids from the majority of MD institutions in my area to include RUSH, UIC, Loyola, and CMS.


The short answer, is no. I have never once been embarrassed by my degree nor have I ever been embarrassed by my clinical knowledge. Maybe I was just rotating with the bottom of each class - I doubt it.