Thoughts on apex locators

Love it. Apex locator, rotary, 5.5x loupe, head light are parts of my everyday endo. Buy one while you're in school. It's expensive out here.

HuyetKiem said:

Love it. Apex locator, rotary, 5.5x loupe, head light are parts of my everyday endo. Buy one while you're in school. It's expensive out here.

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+1. A good apex locator will save you tons of time and make you scads of money.

i love it when i see others use it, but i am still trying to learn how to use the damn thing. i am always getting a false reading for some reason.

HuyetKiem said:

Love it. Apex locator, rotary, 5.5x loupe, head light are parts of my everyday endo. Buy one while you're in school. It's expensive out here.

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Just out of curiosity, who did you purchase your 5.5 loupes from, what type of rotary instrumentation due you use?

PERFECT3435 said:

i love it when i see others use it, but i am still trying to learn how to use the damn thing. i am always getting a false reading for some reason.

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Here are a couple tips you can try to see if you get a better reading:

1) Make sure the pulpal floor is dry, the canals don't have to be dry.

2) Don't use too small of a file, use the largest one you can fit that doesn't bind. That way, it won't slip around and you can watchwind it to length.

3) Make sure you are patent, the apex locator won't work if you're blocked out. Put the file in and make sure the reading goes past the apex, then watchwind out until you get to your desired length.

4) If you're going through a crown or amalgam, make sure the file isn't touching any of the metal. A small cotton pellet can help a lot.

Good luck.

Parkell sells an excellent and well-reviewed apex locator for $495, which are frequently found on ebay for $200 new. It uses regular 9V battery so you don't have to buy an expensive proprietary battery down the road. It saves me a lot of time in most instances.

I hate my d*mn dental school for not showing me how to use one and getting one for my student kit during school. I suffered unnecessarily for years in private practice before getting one because I didn't know. In the meanwhile, I still have thousands of dollars of unnecessary 'junks' in my student kit that have been never been touched or maybe used twice.

OceanDMD said:

Just out of curiosity, who did you purchase your 5.5 loupes from, what type of rotary instrumentation due you use?

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loupe and SunBurst LED head light from Orascoptic. Safesider from EDS for my rotary instrument. I'm using RootZX II as my apex locator.

HuyetKiem said:

loupe and SunBurst LED head light from Orascoptic. Safesider from EDS for my rotary instrument. I'm using RootZX II as my apex locator.

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I didnt think orascoptic made 5.5 loupes. Didnt you just graduate? Safesiders are NOT ROTARY. They are reciprocating instrumentation. I posted something before that I edited out because I was a bit presumptuous. I think I will bring it back up based on your questionable response. I dont find many of your posts believable. Just an opinion. You have graduated in 2008, bought a practice where suddenly you have associates working for you as a new graduate, and claim to produce 40-45 k every 2 weeks. Math says that that production is 1 million/ year as a first year graduate. Apparently texas is not in a recession. You also claim to treat comprehensive ortho, endo, and pedo, once again as a first year graduate with no residency training. What am I missing?

OceanDMD you should just ignore HuyetKiem. It's a cultural thing that I come across all the time with family and stranger alike, which you won't understand. It's like you trying to understand why there's such a pos place called Camden, NJ in this great country of ours. There's just no point trying to rationalize it my friend.

OceanDMD said:

I didnt think orascoptic made 5.5 loupes. Didnt you just graduate? Safesiders are NOT ROTARY. They are reciprocating instrumentation. I posted something before that I edited out because I was a bit presumptuous. I think I will bring it back up based on your questionable response. I dont find many of your posts believable. Just an opinion. You have graduated in 2008, bought a practice where suddenly you have associates working for you as a new graduate, and claim to produce 40-45 k every 2 weeks. Math says that that production is 1 million/ year as a first year graduate. Apparently texas is not in a recession. You also claim to treat comprehensive ortho, endo, and pedo, once again as a first year graduate with no residency training. What am I missing?

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Easliy possible my wife a 2007 graduate no residency training bought a practice in May and has an associate (me) working for her and is averaging about 85k a month in production with really low overhead. It can be done, now does this person do that I don't know, but speaking from experience it can easily be done.

Apex locator - RootZXII Pretty much the standard out there. Nowadays I wouldn't think about doing endo without mine Blood, puss, hypochlorite, really doesn't matter. The only "trick" I've found with it, is for best result, you want to be using a size 25 or larger file for your readings.

Other than that is the learning curve where you find out that you CAN trust the RootZX without having to take a working length film Basically nowadays, if I'm doing an endo, and I feel comfortable with the appearance of the tooth on the pre-op film and don't find anything out of the ordinary while instrumenting the canal(s), the only films I'll have of a tooth I'm doing an endo are are the pre-op and final fill.

OceanDMD said:

I didnt think orascoptic made 5.5 loupes. Didnt you just graduate? Safesiders are NOT ROTARY. They are reciprocating instrumentation. I posted something before that I edited out because I was a bit presumptuous. I think I will bring it back up based on your questionable response. I dont find many of your posts believable. Just an opinion. You have graduated in 2008, bought a practice where suddenly you have associates working for you as a new graduate, and claim to produce 40-45 k every 2 weeks. Math says that that production is 1 million/ year as a first year graduate. Apparently texas is not in a recession. You also claim to treat comprehensive ortho, endo, and pedo, once again as a first year graduate with no residency training. What am I missing?

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5.5 or 5.4x loupe. does it really matter ? The sale rep told me the mag specification and let me test drive for about a week in my last month of dental school. Loved them and bought a whole sytem for $2300 (with student discount). Regarding the Safesiders, I went twice to CE class in New York and Dallas. So whatever its name is, I've used it for my entire Endo treatment and worked out fine for me. Oh yeah, completed RCT on #19 and 12 on 2 different patients today.

Daurang said:

OceanDMD you should just ignore HuyetKiem. It's a cultural thing that I come across all the time with family and stranger alike, which you won't understand. It's like you trying to understand why there's such a pos place called Camden, NJ in this great country of ours. There's just no point trying to rationalize it my friend.

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Thanks bro! I'm just stating the facts. No pissing contest. By the way, I bought 3 Solarcams on Ebay. darn.. they work wonderfully in my office. One of my associate loves them so much, helps his patient in treatment acceptance

DrJeff said:

Apex locator - RootZXII Pretty much the standard out there. Nowadays I wouldn't think about doing endo without mine Blood, puss, hypochlorite, really doesn't matter. The only "trick" I've found with it, is for best result, you want to be using a size 25 or larger file for your readings.

Other than that is the learning curve where you find out that you CAN trust the RootZX without having to take a working length film Basically nowadays, if I'm doing an endo, and I feel comfortable with the appearance of the tooth on the pre-op film and don't find anything out of the ordinary while instrumenting the canal(s), the only films I'll have of a tooth I'm doing an endo are are the pre-op and final fill.

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No working length film for me. Preop, final (master) cone and final fill. I'm still chicken of getting rid final cone film ...

anamod said:

Easliy possible my wife a 2007 graduate no residency training bought a practice in May and has an associate (me) working for her and is averaging about 85k a month in production with really low overhead. It can be done, now does this person do that I don't know, but speaking from experience it can easily be done.

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So now it has been established that as a new graduate, buying a practice, producing 85k/month on average immediately can be "EASILY DONE".

I guess I need to get back to the original thread content before I rip anymore of my hair out.

Most Apex locators are the same with different bells and whistles. We have a 1980's looking thing called a foramatron(parkell), and a root zx. Both have the same accuracy. It has been established that these are more accurate in determining working length then radiographs. If amalgam is anywhere in the access, or if you are going through a crown they do not work. My first radiograph is generally a cone fit. I think it is very questionable and cavalier not to take this radigraph before obturation.

I will work the apices to .15 or .20 files .5mm long (this usually guarantees patency) and then switch to protapers. SX to open the orifice, and then S1, S2, F1, etc. to length. If my cone doesn't have good tug back or a nice stop, I'll finish the apices with K3 files.

Everyone student kit should have a $59 Solarcam from ebay, too. I wonder why the faculty at the dental schools are so dumb not to think of it as a teaching tool.

OceanDMD said:

So now it has been established that as a new graduate, buying a practice, producing 85k/month on average immediately can be "EASILY DONE".

I guess I need to get back to the original thread content before I rip anymore of my hair out.

Most Apex locators are the same with different bells and whistles. We have a 1980's looking thing called a foramatron(parkell), and a root zx. Both have the same accuracy. It has been established that these are more accurate in determining working length then radiographs. If amalgam is anywhere in the access, or if you are going through a crown they do not work. My first radiograph is generally a cone fit. I think it is very questionable and cavalier not to take this radigraph before obturation.

I will work the apices to .15 or .20 files .5mm long (this usually guarantees patency) and then switch to protapers. SX to open the orifice, and then S1, S2, F1, etc. to length. If my cone doesn't have good tug back or a nice stop, I'll finish the apices with K3 files.

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Sorry to get it off topic but you seemed to not trust what the other poster said about his practice. While not the norm it can be done.

As far as apex locators go I have stopped taking length radiographs, most of the time. I have the Root ZX2 I think if you could find a RootZX 1 used it would be a better deal. I have never used all the new bells and whistles on the new one. As far as files go I just started using the Twisted Files, they are awesome. I usually end up finishing with a EndoSequence file sine the only tip size is 25 as of right now. Now my new favorite toy is my ultrasonic unit, makes searching for canals so much easier.

anamod said:

Sorry to get it off topic but you seemed to not trust what the other poster said about his practice. While not the norm it can be done.

As far as apex locators go I have stopped taking length radiographs, most of the time. I have the Root ZX2 I think if you could find a RootZX 1 used it would be a better deal. I have never used all the new bells and whistles on the new one. As far as files go I just started using the Twisted Files, they are awesome. I usually end up finishing with a EndoSequence file sine the only tip size is 25 as of right now. Now my new favorite toe is my ultrasonic unit, makes searching for canals so much easier.

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+1 for Brassler's Endo Sequence files and ultra sonic tips for me too.

There are so many GOOD endo systems out on the market nowadays, you just need to find the system that predictably works for you.

DrJeff said:

+1 for Brassler's Endo Sequence files and ultra sonic tips for me too.

There are so many GOOD endo systems out on the market nowadays, you just need to find the system that predictably works for you.

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You should try the Twisted Files they are awesome for getting around curves. They are extremely flexible, my only complaint is the one tip size. But my Sybron Endo rep says they are coming out with more tip sizes soon.