Going to carib - Have realistic expectations!

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relaxedMD said:

I think the expectations of incoming carib students for excellent matches is unrealistic.

If you are going to the Carib Schools becaue you couldnt get into the US med schools and DO schools, please do not expect to do well (i.e. achieve HIGH boards scores, GPAs) and simply cruise into the Derm, Plastics, Ortho and rads residencies.

If you feel that those competitive residencies are your TRUE calling, please take the time to amp up your CV - do a research project, attend a post bac program, retake the MCATs, etc. In the end, reapplying one more year will save YOU out there a whole lot of heart ache during the interview and Match process. At the end, you may even need to scramble into a less competitive residency. Does that sound like fun?

Play the admissions game and get back in for next year! As a US grad, there is a greater likelihood that you will match at a desirable program in a competitive residency, after achieving HIGH board scores and GPA.
Think before you leap!

For those attending Carib schools with a desire to enter the primary care fields, I absolutely applaud you for working hard despite all of the obstacles set before you! It takes heart and courage to leave your loved ones and set out to achieve your goal of becoming a physician. Good luck!

rlxdmd

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I actually couldn't care less about Derm, Plastics, Ortho, Anesth. and Rads residencies, I actually find the later two pointless at an MD level (I KNOW, I know....here comes the cavalry to rip my head off....TOUGH...this is MY opinion!!!! SO FAR...I am sure medical school will teach me more and better things and I prefer to learn the lesson that way. Still saying you are going to medschool because you love people and helping them and then choose Anesth and Rads as a specialty makes one go `huh?!`...I actually said that in my interview!!! with fear but I said it....and you know what the MD interviewing me said, looked at me, smiled, laughed and said: `Kudos for you!!! I feel the same, and it breaks my heart when I hear statements like that while interviewing other candidates`; Now however if you were always passionate about those fields and not the humanitarian part different story....but I digress). Soooo...yay....for me and my primary care!!!! Thanks to the OP for backing up my beliefs!

Although I must agree that it is more difficult to attain a competitive residency from the Caribbean than the USA, I question if a student is 3.8gpg and 250 Step does it really matter where he come from. In the end it depends on the student the local of your education is a factor in that it limits programs (some don't take IMG) and in borderline cases.

VTHOKIE said:

Although I must agree that it is more difficult to attain a competitive residency from the Caribbean than the USA, I question if a student is 3.8gpg and 250 Step does it really matter where he come from. In the end it depends on the student the local of your education is a factor in that it limits programs (some don't take IMG) and in borderline cases.

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A 3.8 GPA and 250 on the Steps will get the attention of many PDs.

VTHOKIE said:

Although I must agree that it is more difficult to attain a competitive residency from the Caribbean than the USA, I question if a student is 3.8gpg and 250 Step does it really matter where he come from. In the end it depends on the student the local of your education is a factor in that it limits programs (some don't take IMG) and in borderline cases.

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A 3.8, 250 and good rec's will definitely get you a look at competitve residencies. However, and this is key, there are many competitive programs that simply do not, at all, look at foreign students. So for the competitive residencies, if 30-50% of those residencies don't look at IMG's at all, even with a 3.8/250, you're applying for positions taht are even more limited in number than normal. Good luck.

Not many students, US or foreign, make a 250 on the USMLE, so one should not bank on that, unless perhaps you were someone who got 800/800 on your SAT's.

relaxedMD is not being snooty.
RelaxedMD actually went to school in the Caribbean, if I remember right...

Something I've read on the blog of an SGU student who transferred to Drexel was that even if an FMG gets into a competitive residency such as Anesthesiology or Dermatology, it's fairly likely that the quality of the residency itself will be less than average.

So you could say that not only is there a bell curve for the TYPE of residency, but there's also a bell curve within the residency programs themselves.

Teneo said:

Something I've read on the blog of an SGU student who transferred to Drexel was that even if an FMG gets into a competitive residency such as Anesthesiology or Dermatology, it's fairly likely that the quality of the residency itself will be less than average.

So you could say that not only is there a bell curve for the TYPE of residency, but there's also a bell curve within the residency programs themselves.

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that's true for Anesthesia cause it's not considered a competitive residency. but for Derm, Ortho, NeuroSurgery, Urology, ENT where ever you match you'll most likely be the only IMG there and not only you but anyone even US students will be very luck to match there.

look at some US school match lists. a very small % of their grads match into those residencies.

i just looked at SGU's Ross and AUC's 2008 matches and 21 students matched into anesthesia from SGU, 19 from Ross, and 1 from AUC in 2008.

So that's 41 out of 56.. so basically if you don't go to SGU or Ross your chances of matching are even less and virutally impossible.

relaxedMD said:

Yeah good luck getting in from any of the non-Big 4 programs. I am surprised that their was only 1 from AUC. I haven't had time to look at the different match lists from this past year. What about SABA and some of the others?

rlxdmd

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AUC had 9 from the 2009 match. With the growth of CRNAs, people might be shying away from GAS again.

relaxedMD is basically right,
although I think that assuming that nobody gets anesthesia or rads spots outside the match is likely incorrect. Both those specialties, and especially anesthesia, sometimes give spots outside the match. Also, gas sometimes takes people on later (as PGY 2's), for example people who have done 1-2 years of prelim surgery or who did a medicine prelim year, + research, etc. There are back door ways (i.e outside the match spots that open up) into specialties like neuro and anesthesia. Just don't expect to get surgical subspecialties this way b/c it seldom happens (even for US grads). There are so many qualified people every year trying for all those surgical fields, and for derm, urology, etc. that they are incredibly hard to get, even for US grads. The residency programs just don't have to go looking any place else (like schools abroad) to fill up their residencies.

r.e. SABA...don't they just have a lot smaller classes, and also have more Canadians vs. US students? I'm just curious b/c @one point I just about applied there (and to St. George).

relaxedMD said:

Yeah good luck getting in from any of the non-Big 4 programs. I am surprised that their was only 1 from AUC. I havent had time to look at the different match lists from this past year. What about SABA and some of the others?

rlxdmd

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saba didn't have the 2008 match up their latest match results were from 2007. at least that's what it shows on their website
http://www.saba.edu/residency_match.php

McGillGrad said:

AUC had 9 from the 2009 match. With the growth of CRNAs, people might be shying away from GAS again.

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i hope so.. it will make things easier for me.

McGillGrad said:

Realism is relative.

The new semesters tend to being several groups of students:

1. The gunners who think they will honor every class

2. The Derm/Ortho/Neurosurgery dreamers who do not realize how difficult it is for a US med school grad to snatch those spots

3. The people who are grateful for an opportunity to prove themselves

Telling people that they should limit themselves is grotesquely presumptive because some people (1-3%) will score an ultra-competitive residency/specialty. If they had self-selected themselves out, then they would have never made it.

Realistic expectations depend on the person. Of 90 people who took the step last semester, I personally know 4 who scored above 245. I have only heard of one failing in the past two semesters, but I am only one person.

Point being, if you make it past basic sciences then you should know where you stand and most people will have choice for specialties (minus the insane-o ones) but will need to be geographically flexible.

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I agree 100%. what a dumb post to start off with. Why would you be bitter enough to try to discourage people before they get started becasue things may not have worked out exactly the way you wanted to. If you set your goals as high as possible at teh beginning, you will still be better off even if you fall slightly short of that goal. (ie I wanted neurosurgery but fell into general surgery instead)Do you think US grads are sitting there thinkiog, " Gee, I'm in the US. I have the advantage over the whole world come match year. I'll just ease on by with average scores becasue PDs will choose me over everyone else because I go to school in the good ole USA. " News flash, I don't. I see everyone in the world come match year as a worthy applicant to take my spot and I strive to do everything in my control to prevent that. Moral of the story, set your goals at whatever you do as high as possible and try. If you do that, you won't be unsatisfied when the cards are laid out on the table. However, don't be crazy. If you know you have a 2.9-3.2 GPA with a 200 step score coming from Ross, don't try ro match surgery, gas, or anything else "competitive." Stick to primary care and psych. JMO!

The moral of this thread is true: have realistic expectations.

I succeeded. I matched into a competitive "gas" residency in 2005 at a large, well-known University-based program from Ross, and I'm finishing that residency in two weeks. It was hard work. I had great letters of recommendation, I had solid board scores (no "250s" or anything), and I made it through without any blemishes on my transcript and graduated with honors. Now, I have an unrestricted license to practice medicine. I have a DEA number. I have privileges at the hospital I'm going to practice in.

It didn't "just happen".

The fact is, the majority of my classmates matched into primary care specialties. This will, if you believe statistics, most likely be your fate if you go to Ross or SGU or AUC, and even more so for the other Carib schools.

If you are going just to become a "doctor", then you'll get your wish. But, if you sincerely have the dream of becoming a dermatologist or neurosurgeon, get in line behind tons of kids in U.S. medical school with the same dream. The odds are you're not going to make it coming from a Carib school, unless one of your parents is the chairman of a program. But, the same holds true for most U.S. medical students. Fact is, the ultra-competitive specialties are simply out of reach for most candidates, regardless of where they're coming from unless it's Harvard or Stanford or Duke... and they have killer recs, great board scores, and generally walk on water.

In other words, this discussion is kind of pointless once you realize the fact above.

-Skip

Skip Intro said:

The moral of this thread is true: have realistic expectations.

I succeeded. I matched into a competitive "gas" residency in 2005 at a large, well-known University-based program from Ross, and I'm finishing that residency in two weeks. It was hard work. I had great letters of recommendation, I had solid board scores (no "250s" or anything), and I made it through without any blemishes on my transcript and graduated with honors. Now, I have an unrestricted license to practice medicine. I have a DEA number. I have privileges at the hospital I'm going to practice in.

It didn't "just happen".

The fact is, the majority of my classmates matched into primary care specialties. This will, if you believe statistics, most likely be your fate if you go to Ross or SGU or AUC, and even more so for the other Carib schools.

If you are going just to become a "doctor", then you'll get your wish. But, if you sincerely have the dream of becoming a dermatologist or neurosurgeon, get in line behind tons of kids in U.S. medical school with the same dream. The odds are you're not going to make it coming from a Carib school, unless one of your parents is the chairman of a program. But, the same holds true for most U.S. medical students. Fact is, the ultra-competitive specialties are simply out of reach for most candidates, regardless of where they're coming from unless it's Harvard or Stanford or Duke... and they have killer recs, great board scores, and generally walk on water.

In other words, this discussion is kind of pointless once you realize the fact above.

-Skip

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schandan13 said:

with all due respect, i couldn't disagree more with your post. the use of "doctor", specifically, is rather offensive. allow me to shed light on this further..
how in the world can a student (who probably hasn't even attended a day of medical school) possibly state that he doesn't want to become an internist or an OBGYN ? I'm sure most dream of neurosurgery/CT surgery but that's just a make believe world they live in (like most prospective med school entrants ). Your interests change during the course of medical school, and i think its absurd for some1 to reject a medical school just because it wouldn't lead to them becoming an orthopaedic surgeon. They might just end up hating surgery, and develop an interest in another field. By using quotes, are you calling the competitive residents the ONLY real doctors out there ? I have 2 osteopaths in my family who ended up with IM/FM respectively. Going through osteopathy school did not magically get them into Radiology. Fact is, many at Ivy League schools match in primary care too. Its what drives you as a career option, not what will probably make you the most money or give you the highest status in society.

Where I come from, Pediatrics is one of the most competitive fields, with derm being the absolute LAST choice for most people. So would i call pediatricians doctors and dermatologists "doctors" ?? Unless and untill you know about the field, you can't possibly decide. Infact, i think, unless u rotate in a field, you don't know what it is about. So stop misleading students into "chasing their dreams". Sadly, they themselves don't know enough about their "dreams" just as yet.

Moving on, yes, if you talk of physician salaries, no doubt. Competitive residencies will fetch you 3 times the pay. But is that the driving force behind to-be med students ? Sad if it is. Would you suggest an internist put "MD" after his surname, and a radiologist an MD ?

So even though certain branches are out of reach of FMGs, it doesn't mean that they would, in your words, become "doctors". They can be as competitive in their field of choice as they want to be. At the same time, they can't possibly know about their likes or dislikes without stepping into med school. And if salaries are what u r looking at, i think you should be called the "doctor"...

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I don't know where you come from... but in the US pre-meds often times shadow physicians around in different specialties before even applying to medical school to see #1 if they want to be a doctor and #2 what kind of doctor they might be interested in becoming... So most US students have a clue as to what they want to do.. now this might change as they go through 3rd year but many times it doesn't. US students don't make brisk decisions about Grad school, like apparently you did.. wasting who knows how many years to become a dentist and then just to end up in medical school and never use that degree again.

Also there's a huge difference of between picking to go into a specialty because this is what interests you (like the IVY league students you're talking about) and being forced to go into a specialty because if you don't go into it you simply won't match, and then you can use your carib MD degree to go to the bathroom with.

So yes if you're taking big risks like going to the carib for med school, which is a huge risk because there's a very good chance you won't match in anything, you better know ahead of time what to expect and don't think think that you can come out and be a radiologist or orthopedic surgeon without a problem.

And lastly no not everyone wants to be a brain surgeon or a heart surgeon..that's actually the minority of people, many go into med school wanting to be a pediatrician or an internist.

not everyone is as lucky as you where they can waste time and money getting a degree and then not use it, only to go to another grad school for another degree.

RussianJoo said:

I don't know where you come from... but in the US pre-meds often times shadow physicians around in different specialties before even applying to medical school to see #1 if they want to be a doctor and #2 what kind of doctor they might be interested in becoming... So most US students have a clue as to what they want to do.. now this might change as they go through 3rd year but many times it doesn't. US students don't make brisk decisions about Grad school, like apparently you did.. wasting who knows how many years to become a dentist and then just to end up in medical school and never use that degree again.

Also there's a huge difference of between picking to go into a specialty because this is what interests you (like the IVY league students you're talking about) and being forced to go into a specialty because if you don't go into it you simply won't match, and then you can use your carib MD degree to go to the bathroom with.

So yes if you're taking big risks like going to the carib for med school, which is a huge risk because there's a very good chance you won't match in anything, you better know ahead of time what to expect and don't think think that you can come out and be a radiologist or orthopedic surgeon without a problem.

And lastly no not everyone wants to be a brain surgeon or a heart surgeon..that's actually the minority of people, many go into med school wanting to be a pediatrician or an internist.

not everyone is as lucky as you where they can waste time and money getting a degree and then not use it, only to go to another grad school for another degree.

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schandan13 said:

seriously, your ignorance amuses me. it's true when they say "americans only live in america". just because you recently matched and have moved on in life doesn't make you god, contrary to what you might want to believe. i've travelled all over the world and been specifically to the US more times than i can remember. just because you have a grouse against half the world for the money they might have/ the opportunities they might have or in short, be more intelligent than you, don't start making things personal here. or if you have such a big problem with me, let's talk outside of a public forum....

1. shadowing a doctor doesn't neccessarily arouse/decrease the interest of a student in a specific speciality. its not equivalent to hands on clinical experience. getting into a field, you spend your entire life like that. not like a couple of months seeing how other doctors function. i don't know what 3rd world country you think i came from, but i got into dental school securing a place in the 60 who were selected from a pool of 30,000. i wish you knew how the system worked here, cuz just "wanting" to be a physician doesn't magically lead you to an MD (the way for you SGU was a convinient next-best-option) consider yourself lucky to be in a system where chances of getting into med school are >>60/30,000. i however wasn't as lucky. and hence want to make amends. knowledge never goes waste. i did not have to pay a hefty tuition like you had to, so i'm not in any sort of debt either. (ahh i'm beginning to see where your problem lies !)

2. now i enjoy a challenge, and id love to defy the stereotype. i know alot more about specialities than you did before entering medical school. i believe you were an EMT prior to the MD. probably being a make shift life saver wasn't your true calling...haha...i'm stooping to your level. ooops my bad, EMTs, i'm sure, are doing a wonderful job...i respect them. it's you in particular i have a problem with.

3. i haven't wasted time or money....hence both your retorts, i declare, invalid. i am proud of my degree and got it with much struggle (but unlike you who keeps annoucing to the world what a poor family you came from and how you had to beat the odds to get into med school, i wouldn't start with my "story")

look i'm sorry if you couldn't reach where you probably wanted to. now if you are completely blaming it on SGU (by calling it a carib MD over and over again), i pitty you. I'm sure you have constructive things to get to. You'd save your precious time concentrating in your residency rather than getting into useless and conclusion-less banter with me (or many others like you do).

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What do you think we do in 3rd year and 4th year? do you think they let perform appendectomies and do a lot of things in general? 85% of the time you'll be observing either the resident or the attending.. sure you'll know a lot more of what's going on and will get to have some sort of patient interaction but it will be minimal.

i haven't matched yet so do some more research on me cause you're obviously so obsessed with me. i never said i had a problem with you. i just had a problem with what you said.. not everyone is in your situation where they can get a free education.. people pay big bucks for graduate degrees and going to a carib medical school thinking that you're going to come out and be able to match into whatever field you want is unrealistic when it comes to carib schools and yes SGU is a carib school (check the map). Also Skip Intro never said you'll be a poor doctor from a carib school that's dependent on you. by saying you'll just be a "doctor" he meant you won't be anything special, but will be your average internist or Family doctor, not some hot shot plastic surgeon. (maybe you need a better grasp of english before you start making accusations)

And many students do go to a school like SGU thinking they'll come out and be able to get whatever residency they want, when they should come into this whole thing with their eyes wide open and realize what they're getting themselves into.. there was a post on here a few weeks ago of some dude who wanted to become an ophthalmologist and went to a carib school with that in mind and now graduated was asking what his chances were..and is not considering becoming an optomotrist in which case he wasted a few hundred thousand dollars on an MD degree which he will never use. well if he knew how hard it was to be come an ophthalmologist to begin with he would think twice about going to that school.

Yes I was an EMT it was a ton of fun.. i volunteered on the weekends for my Undergrad University.. we mostly dealt with drunk kids vomiting on the streets.. lots of great stories.. but i didn't do it for money, i did it so it would look good on my resume and to see if i really wanted to be in the medical field, and i got to use lights and sirens in my car and never got a parking ticket or speeding ticket. ohh and it took 2months of 2 hour night classes twice a week to get my license.. so really it was no big deal to do it. I did other school assignments during those lectures.. it's all really common sense.

you haven't wasted time? so you're going to be a dentist and an MD at the same time? have two offices? or will the knowledge of oral anatomy going to help you out in anatomy class? last time i checked we didn't even go over teeth in anatomy class. It might have not been a waste of time cause you're interested in learning but you can learn about something without having to go to school for it... spending a few years to get a degree that you're never going to use is a waste of time in my book.

also when did i ever complain about being poor or coming from a poor family? for you know i might be a millionaire who didn't even have to take out loans.. but regardless $250K is a lot of money even for someone who's as rich as me. and to waste that money to later realize that you can't do what you wanted to do all your life or will have to settle for a specialty in which you have no interest will totally suck..


I also never said i hate SGU or thought they did a bad job.. i actually loved my time on the island and think they're the best option for those that couldn't get into a US med school. I had great experiences with both faculty and administration and got everything I wanted thus far, everything I asked for SGU delivered, I can't say that about many others but I was fortunate. If I didn't think SGU was a great school I wouldn't have gone there. Unlike a lot of people I do a lot of research and make sure 100% that this is what I want before I do something, shocker i know.. and SGU in the end will give me the opportunity to be the physician that i want to be cause I don't want to do a super competitive specialty if i did I would definitely think twice about going to SGU.

And yes foreign degrees at least in the US are worthless.. that's why you see lots of people who were doctors in their home countries come to the US and become taxi drivers or clerks at convenient stores.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX6h-Ut-ZaE[/YOUTUBE]

And I will reach what i want to reach in my career, cause my goals aren't that high and are realistic.. but some people go to SGU thinking they'll be Ophthalmologists or Urologists only to realize that not only is their 197 step1 score not good enough but also it's almost impossible to get into those specialties with a foreign degree.

so that's great that you hate me so much and are so offended.. i guess we'll see what happens when you'll be applying for a residency in 4 years how easy it is for you to match into your dream specialty.

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schandan13 said:

again, lack of knowledge...complete lack of knowledge. surely as much time as you took to reply, it would've just helped google-ing "BDS" and finding out what it was. Dental school curriculum is very rigorous in our part of the world especially since I went to a govt funded university where we get to handle the maximum number of patients with all sorts of problems. we have hands on experience in 3rd and 4th years and not even 5% of it is "observing". allow me to introduce you to the first 2 years of BDS...its got gross anatomy including neuro, histology, biochemistry and physiology. 2nd year, we have microbiology, pathology, pharmacology and yes "oral anatomy". the way you talk about a dental degree shows how insecure you are about your position/status in society. i don't think a dentist is any less of a doctor than a physician. they are specialists in their own rights. unfortunately, i don't think you understand the way the system works here, just wanting to become a doctor is NOT enough. atleast instead of sitting around and wasting time i opted to do dentistry. and let me also tell you that my grades have been converted to a U.S. equivalent. this is not to show that i'm some sort of born genius cuz a) i worked my arse off for it b) my grades are mediocre at best. it is just a slap in the face for those who think themselves to be some kind of bigshots of their respective fields and apparently flaunt around their "US" education.

i think you misunderstood what i wrote in reply to what SkipIntro said. What offended me was the use of quotation marks. So in his/her and probably in your opinion an internist is just an avg joe doctor earning a decent livelihood, where as a plastic surgeon is a "hot shot". seriously, grow up. you would rise up in your life if you work hard. i know tons of people who are living proof of that.

for the students who think of entering a carib med school with dreams of matching into radiology et al are again, stupid. plain stupid. firstly, its about realising your own potential and interest, which as i stated earlier, can surely change during the course of your study. secondly, they are probably illinformed of the cons of heading to the carib. BUT, that does NOT mean you bash them with your own personal pessimissm. Let them (and me) make the best of the opportunity we have been offered. You took yours and ran with it, and probably would go where you want to in due course of time. I take all of what you say personally cuz I too am apprehensive about where I am headed, but all i know is I have to work hard for it. Period. And thats all everyone should know at this juncture. Thinking 4 yrs hence, is mighty foolish. Be prepared to NOT match in the "competitve" fields, sure. But dont accept it as your ultimate fate. Thats like giving up even before starting. So really, its about striking a balance between realism and pure pessimissm.

And driving a taxi or mopping floors is not an issue. I've seen alot alot more hardship than you can possibly ever imagine dude. Be happy that you were born in a country where people's lives have some value. You live in a country where a person is respected for the knowledge he has and how qualified he is. Not where children commit suicide cuz they simply couldn't make it (chances of getting into medical school are ~0.002%) I think if driving a taxi is what i need to do to survive, I would just have to do it. Probably in your mind, given the obvious the insecurities you have about yourself, you think that it's below a doctor's status to drive a taxi. But if survival is at stake, i would do it. Anyone would. Though probably not as gladly. 2 of my family members (now successful physicians) did house cleaning on weekends for a decent pay. And today they enjoy their success. Twice as much.

So yeah, to each his own. Stop discouraging or encouraging people. Make them see the real picture, but don't make them scared as hell. I have no personal issues with you, its also always with WHAT you say. Most of the times it is an unprovoked and un-asked for reply to my post. Its you who always has this problem with quoting other people's posts and replying in a derogatory manner. Resorting to down right stinky banter. If you disagree with something some1 said, keep it to yourself and shut it. Stop stooping to childish personal insults. Alot of the posters come on these forums looking for answers. Let them hear from everyone and decide (or not) on what to do. You aren't personally accountable for each and every post here or on VMD. What works for you may not work for others.

again, as full of spite as you are, i wish you good luck with the match. as for me, i am not being offered any of the competitve residencies in my home country either, so i'd probably be happy doing any of the primary care ones (if i ever manage to reach the level of your intelligence). but i sincerely hope that you aren't one of us who (inspite of having foreign "doctoral" degrees) have to end up cleaning toilets or driving taxis...
oh and my dear friend, my grasp over english is just fine...

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well actually i was born in the soviet union and lived there for a while before moving, so you can tell your stories to someone else... about not having opportunity and all that stuff i know it all first hand.

And about children committing suicide because they can't get into medical school or got poor grades... I guess you don't follow the US news papers but it actually happens quiet often in the US and the more competitive the university is the more people kill themselves over poor grades.. i think Cornell or Columbia had the highest suicide rate out of all the universities for a while.. So that doesn't only happen in your country so once again i am not shocked to hear about that sort of thing. in fact i am very sad to say that suicides because of poor grades even happen at SGU.

as for keeping my opinions to myself? well this is an open forum.. if you post here you ask for peoples opinions. i have every right to post on here my opinions as much as anyone else.. and that's all you get here are opinions no facts what's so ever.. so if you don't want to hear people's opinions then it's pretty simple don't post on public forums... if you post you'll hear my opinion and many other peoples opinions.. If people wouldn't be posting advice or opinions on these forums like me and other people then there wouldn't be any forums at all..

Maybe you should have taken your own advice and kept your mouth shut and not responded to Skip Intro's comment, considering you have no clue what you're talking about because you haven't even started medical school..

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schandan13 said:

oh trust me i know tons more than you do. people post, people speak up. the difference is you talk ****. and you start making things dirty. makes sense since now i know what pedigree you are. must have been mighty hard to become a part of the culture. fitting in. ya all making sense now. but i applaud thee, you made it this far...

cmon russianjoo....stop using the same thing over and over again against me..."you haven't even started medical school". seriously, are u just that slow ? nothing better in the bag ? how about throwing that foreign doctor thing again ?? or maybe the "dentist" jokes....

reply all you want, just don't reply quoting my posts. cuz then i will be forced to reply (your posts are just so damn personal and even though i think its pointlessly immature to continue replying...i can't resist)
that said, i have work, i have a life. unlike yours which revolves around SDN and VMD forums.

seriously, my sympathies with you. I know the MD is of no good till you match. atleast i am into practice as of now. my prayers will go out to you. hope you match !

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you know my pedigree? well i guess I now know your pedigree too.. and know what country you're from... just like you're preying for me.. i'll be praying for you too.. thank you for the kind words, same words in return to you.

not to be one to break the chain of consistency,

but I have a friend who is completing his rotations in NY after doing two pre clinical years at SGU in grenada.

His MCAT scores were a 29 M

and his Step 1 score was a 252.

So I am assuming he is going to get whatever residency he desires. But then again, getting such a high score is anything but easy

10guagesyringe said:

not to be one to break the chain of consistency,

but I have a friend who is completing his rotations in NY after doing two pre clinical years at SGU in grenada.

His MCAT scores were a 29 M

and his Step 1 score was a 252.

So I am assuming he is going to get whatever residency he desires. But then again, getting such a high score is anything but easy

Click to expand...

thats inspirational, to say the least. although you might have opened a pandora box of useless debate by posting this. i applaud thy courage !

10guagesyringe said:

not to be one to break the chain of consistency,

but I have a friend who is completing his rotations in NY after doing two pre clinical years at SGU in grenada.

His MCAT scores were a 29 M

and his Step 1 score was a 252.

So I am assuming he is going to get whatever residency he desires. But then again, getting such a high score is anything but easy

Click to expand...

plenty of people score high from SGU and other carib schools. some guy from Saba got a 247 on step1 and 256 on step2.. some guy from ross got a 260 on step1 and 238 on step2.. those people are usually the ones that want super competitive residencies like Ortho or Plastics or Derm.. My good friend and classmate got a 252 on step1 as well and has a 3.9gpa, he's going for Ortho and is scared $hitless of not matching.. (he's not the same guy cause he's doing rotations in NJ, not NYC)... this guy has a family friend who is an Orthopedic surgeon at Yale University and he tried to get him to do a one month elective there.. the Program Director saw my friends CV and was very impressed and wanted him to rotate there (actually called my friend on the phone)... unfortunately the school administration said no, they don't allow carib students to rotate at their hospital.. the program director knew he was at SGU but I guess didn't know about this rule.. I also know a girl from Canada in my class who's doing her rotations in NYC and got a 257 on step1...not sure what she wants to go into. But she'll have a tough time because of Visa issues.. not too many top university programs want to bother with the extra process of sponsoring visas and paying extra fees for these visas when they can get an applicant with the same stats or slightly lower stats but who doesn't need a visa.

So yeah they'll be able to match at very good residencies but some places will simply not look at their application just because they went to a carib school.. Top notch places have computer filters set up that filter out all applicants who either need a visa, or went to a foriegn school, or who's step1 is bellow a certain score or who failed a step, so at those places programs don't even know that you applied. and if those people would have gone to a US school and gotten those step1 scores their life would have been 1000 times easier and they would have matched at much better residency programs than they will coming from SGU.

But even though people like that exist they're only a hand full of people like that in each class, and each class is over 400 people x 2 per year.. So everyone hears these amazing stories and get blinded by them and don't realize that those people were probably the top 3 or 4 students in their class.

schandan13,

I don't know what in my post got you so irritated and into such a lather. Of course pediatricians and FPs and general IMs and psychiatrists are doctors. That wasn't the point.

This is:

(1) Some kids go to medical school simply so they can garner the... ahem... "prestige" of being called "doctor". If that's their primary motivator and all they are ultimately trying to accomplish, then it really doesn't matter where you get your degree or what field you go into.

(2) There are also hopeless optimists who think they will get ortho coming from a Carib school, provided that they score 250+ on Step 1 and generally have sunshine streaming out of their posteriors. They need a reality check.

I hope that clears things up. Or, perhaps you're still too pissed off to think straight.

-Skip

Skip Intro said:

schandan13,

I don't know what in my post got you so irritated and into such a lather. Of course pediatricians and FPs and general IMs and psychiatrists are doctors. That wasn't the point.

This is:

(1) Some kids go to medical school simply so they can garner the... ahem... "prestige" of being called "doctor". If that's their primary motivator and all they are ultimately trying to accomplish, then it really doesn't matter where you get your degree or what field you go into.

(2) There are also hopeless optimists who think they will get ortho coming from a Carib school, provided that they score 250+ on Step 1 and generally have sunshine streaming out of their posteriors. They need a reality check.

I hope that clears things up. Or, perhaps you're still too pissed off to think straight.

-Skip

Click to expand...

Yes, it does clear up the issue completely. My grouse was only with the use of quotations, which i thought you used to down IMs and FPs. The succeeding altercation was un-provoked and un-initiated.

And both the "types" of students you stated are, well, stupid. They need to get out of whatever la-la-land theyre in and get a reality check. Without adequate research, risk-benefit ratio determination and weighing your options, you shouldn't head out to the carib. Having unrealistic expectations with great scores etc is one end of the extreme. Being downright pessimisstic is the other extreme. My problem was and will always be with the know-it-alls on these forums. Venting out their frustrations and becoming nasty doesn't help anyone.

Appreciate your reply, and no, i was never "pissed off".

relaxedMD said:

I go on vacation only to return to this lengthy grouse between a relative new comer and our carib mate, Russian Joo.

I stopped reading your written spars after the third jab. It was initially amusing, but then I realized that Schandan-the dentist was simply frustrated, himself. As I read on, I appreciated reading McGillGrad laws of matching. Very concise, very thorough. Excellent observation McGG!

Schandan: Please stop wasting our time while you VENT your FRUSTRATIONS on a topic you have little experience with. The last post from you was hardly brilliant. In my assessment it simply reiterated what has been said over and over again on this thread: "have realistic expectations" before you go to the Carib. RussianJoo was IMO correct to exchange words with you.

Schandan: Where did you graduate dental school? Where are you currently attending medical school? What year of school are you currently in?

rlxdmd

Click to expand...

Same here, I return from leave and discover this. Wow.

McGill: Great post

Rlxdmd: Same to you

Schandan: You may want to consider relaxing a bit before starting medical school. You'll live much longer...

..................

schandan13 said:

That is not something I choose to disclose on a public forum, and honestly I don't really think I need to answer to it either. Unless ofcourse you want to feel happy about yourself by showing down my degree like RJ here, I refuse to give you that opportunity ! I am graduate of a system where studies are alot more rigorous than they ever can be in the US. Also making it to medical/dental school itself is much much tougher than any other country. I made it to dental school (a class of 60) out of a potential 30,000. Enough said.

I am hardly frustrated. Sad, yes, most definitely. I couldn't make it to medical school in my country. I'll give you that. But I've got a chance again. And if that's hard for most of you to digest (a dentist and an MD ? have two offices ? blah blah), deal with it.

I am going to a medical school which will give me a relatively better shot of making it to the US eventually. For most of you here, it was a step down. And maybe it was frustrating to watch your peers make it to US MD/DO schools. For me however, it's a step up. This, again, is not in terms of education on offer. Just the equivalency (or atleast close resemblance) of the teaching system with US schools.

So seriously, stop quoting my posts and replying. You have a life too, I'm sure. I'll still post what I know since alot of it comes from people who matched this year and from people with >20 yrs of teaching med students.

Click to expand...

that competition doesn't surprise me. especially when the population of your country is over 1.17 Billion..

schandan13 said:

That is not something I choose to disclose on a public forum, and honestly I don't really think I need to answer to it either. Unless ofcourse you want to feel happy about yourself by showing down my degree like RJ here, I refuse to give you that opportunity ! I am graduate of a system where studies are alot more rigorous than they ever can be in the US. Also making it to medical/dental school itself is much much tougher than any other country. I made it to dental school (a class of 60) out of a potential 30,000. Enough said.

I am hardly frustrated. Sad, yes, most definitely. I couldn't make it to medical school in my country. I'll give you that. But I've got a chance again. And if that's hard for most of you to digest (a dentist and an MD ? have two offices ? blah blah), deal with it.

I am going to a medical school which will give me a relatively better shot of making it to the US eventually. For most of you here, it was a step down. And maybe it was frustrating to watch your peers make it to US MD/DO schools. For me however, it's a step up. This, again, is not in terms of education on offer. Just the equivalency (or atleast close resemblance) of the teaching system with US schools.

So seriously, stop quoting my posts and replying. You have a life too, I'm sure. I'll still post what I know since alot of it comes from people who matched this year and from people with >20 yrs of teaching med students.

Click to expand...

I am quoting your posts because rxldmd and RJ have been around for awhile, and their reaction is relatively rare. You, however, are new, and your posts are becoming increasingly inflammatory.

So, enough already. In case you haven't figured it out, people's responses to your posts are basically a defense mechanism. That is why you are getting the reaction that you are.

A little advice: you MUST learn to calm down and remove the chip from your shoulder. Okay, people have critized you. So what? That is the basis of the entire medical system in the US. A ton of critizism, and hardly any compliments. You need to learn to deal with it now, or you will self-destruct. You are going to a Carib school. You had better get used to the critizism regarding that. For the rest of your career, you will have to listen to the stigma about Carib schools. And somehow learn to keep your defensive responses at bay.

Tigerz_Fan said:

I am quoting your posts because rxldmd and RJ have been around for awhile, and their reaction is relatively rare. You, however, are new, and your posts are becoming increasingly inflammatory.

So, enough already. In case you haven't figured it out, people's responses to your posts are basically a defense mechanism. That is why you are getting the reaction that you are.

A little advice: you MUST learn to calm down and remove the chip from your shoulder. Okay, people have critized you. So what? That is the basis of the entire medical system in the US. A ton of critizism, and hardly any compliments. You need to learn to deal with it now, or you will self-destruct. You are going to a Carib school. You had better get used to the critizism regarding that. For the rest of your career, you will have to listen to the stigma about Carib schools. And somehow learn to keep your defensive responses at bay.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the advise. I will no doubt remember it. There is ample criticism around me already. Dentist vs Doctor is an age old debate especially since we have a common exam to enter either fields..higher rank = medicine, rejects = dentistry. I know of people who refuse to call dentists doctors (however absurd that might sound). I am new to SDN, given, but I am not new to the system. Agreed I am not a part of it just yet, but that doesn't mean I don't or I can't know anything about it. I wouldn't have taken the calculated risk if I didn't have my facts straight. Hey, your country, your rules. I am just going to have to deal with them. I honestly welcome constructive critcism, there is still LOTS to learn. I got a ton of PMs telling me how dirty and directionless these forums could get, now I have first hand experience.

I'll keep what you said in mind for future.

Dentist are not rejected doctors! That is so ******ed! They have a completely different set of skills....it is like comparing oranges and apples.

I think it is lame how everyone just bashes and hates so much on this forum, especially when we are all suppose to be caring, supportive, and kind people....this is something i would expect more from a law student forum...(j/k), no lawyers suck..

But anyways, I think dentists are so important! I totally need one right now and I don't have health insurance. My teeth hurt and my filling just fell out last night....can I go to a doctor to fix that? NO? So why are dentist lesser beings?

I am starting to regret ever picking this profession (MD) but I have to tell myself that these forums are a joke. It is only dealing with real people in the real world who aren't just bashing each other that is significant.

take a chill pill everyone...

dude what are you taking about? oranges wish they were apples. they're so the rejected apples...

ohh and these forums are a reflection of what the real world is about.. stop living in a bubble.

haha ! some wish they were physicians. no doubt. but many MANY don't !
i admire the confidence, though, with which you make an opinion look like a fact !

RussianJoo said:

dude what are you taking about? oranges wish they were apples. they're so the rejected apples...

Click to expand...

Months later, I am reading these posts and became a member just to reply to this particular post: RJ YOU ARE HILARIOUS! (in a totally appreciative and respectful way)

Thanks for this thread and I thought ALL (except maybe one response) the comments were very useful and insightful on many levels. I am considering applying to the Caribbean schools and I think it's very good advice to people like me to remember to have realistic expectations.

Peace.